Mid Sized Japs - What to look at? - Page 2

Paxton · 26-09-2005, 05:49 PM

I posted an update in my above post, but I will sum the car up now. I am smitten. The power delivery rivals the Territory, the smoothness of the AWD/5 Speed auto is phenominal, and the way it handles in the wet, on the dangerous road out to Bundeena blew me away. It stuck to the road like sh|t to a blanket, and as much ad I tried, I could not find a way to break traction at all. With 5,000 kms on the odometer, I am still amazed at how the package feels. The leather feels like leather, the stereo is enough to, in Wheels Words, on the review of the Territory Ghia's radio 'pulverize ear wax', but the Tip-Tronic is the wrong way, especially after using the SSS in the Territory for 9 months.

When the wife comes home from work, I will take her out in it, on the same road into Bundeena, or further in Stanwell Tops, and give her a feel of the car. It should be an experience. The Honda dealer contacted me today, claiming to have a Thai Built Accord V6 Luxury for $40,000 on the road, with 2,000 kms on it as a Demo. I believe them to be inferior quality to the Accord Euro, which is built in Japan, and also of inferior quality to the Liberty, which I am still amazed at. When I drive an Accord tomorrow, I will compare the three, and then look at the Mazda 6. It is on the short list also, but I haven't driven one of them yet.

-Andrew

BuuBox · 26-09-2005, 07:22 PM

I'd have to go with the Subaru over the Honda, especially if the car's as much improved over the last model as MrSparkle described. I've had some experience with the last model WRX and the last model Liberty, and while both didn't mind a drink (especially in the case of the WRX, despite only grandma driving), they seem to be well made, safe, and don't go to bad either.

If you're going to get a Verada or whatever they're going to call it, might as well get a Fairmont. I know which one I'd rather drive! Big FWD cars are the devil. After driving a current model Camry, I'd steer clear of that too. Almost a step backwards from the previous model... and certinatly not a step fowards. Ugly as all s**t too.

Edit:The Thai Built Accord V6 Luxury is suppose to be largely inferior to the Accord Euro, so if you're going for a Honda, go for the Euro, despite it's silly name. A friend bought one a few weeks back, and they couldn't be happier.

Psycho Chicken · 26-09-2005, 08:21 PM

If you think the 3.0 Lib is fun with the 5 speed, go borrow one with a 6 behind it. They've got a suprising amount of go.

AU-MUSTD · 26-09-2005, 09:17 PM

The 3.0 lib is the six pshyco. Has plenty of go up in the revs

:

Paxton · 26-09-2005, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psycho Chicken

If you think the 3.0 Lib is fun with the 5 speed, go borrow one with a 6 behind it. They've got a suprising amount of go.

I wish I could, however unless I can convince the Wife that she needs the Territory, and that I should get a new car, I have to get an Automatic. If I could get a manual, we would be looking at an XR6 Turbo, with the Premium Pack, and not the Liberty/Accord/Mazda6 that we are deciphering over at the moment. The Liberty goes back tomorrow, and an Accord may be at my place.

-Andrew

BuuBox · 26-09-2005, 10:00 PM

If I were you, I'd be convincing the wife she needs the Territory! Hrm, how can you argue with safety, dashing good looks, versitility... think this thread should be about making a list of Territory positives! :P

Psycho Chicken · 26-09-2005, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AU-MUSTD

The 3.0 lib is the six pshyco. Has plenty of go up in the revs

:

I mean the 6 speed manual.

Paxton · 26-09-2005, 10:10 PM

I have one big negative. The last time She had the Territory for any length of time, it was almost murdered. She got it wedged between two Taxis, and since then, she has been uneasy about driving it. I will suggest we do that tomorrow, however I'mm not sure she will go for it. Paying for the fuel it uses is the number one problem. I don't know if I can afford to pay for the requirements of a big 4 Litre car, when we also have a smaller H6. I may be able to talk her around.

-Andrew

buickman · 26-09-2005, 10:14 PM

My cousin purchased a Honda Euro about 2 months ago with the works. A very nice car I've driven it twice very impressed with it.

buickman

BuuBox · 27-09-2005, 02:05 AM

Not that I have any personal experience, but the fuel consumption figures don't look all that healthy for the 3.0 litre liberty...

Quote:

You will pay for that sort of driving as fuel economy is not one of the boxer engine's highlight characteristics – more than 13l/100km was not unusual.

and

Quote:

3.0R-B 12.4 avg (ADR81/01)

I know the fuel consumption on the Liberty 2.0 wagon I mentioned was rather hideous. Rather nice looking car though! Wish I had such a hard decision to make... :P

AU-MUSTD · 27-09-2005, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psycho Chicken

I mean the 6 speed manual.

Yeah l realised after l replyed :O Sorry

AU-MUSTD · 27-09-2005, 05:51 PM

[QUOTE=BuuBox]Not that I have any personal experience, but the fuel consumption figures don't look all that healthy for the 3.0 litre liberty...

My dad gets around 8.5 ltrs /100kays daily driving and he's not that conservative. I think thats pretty good. Also our 2.5 liberty gets higher consumption on 110 klm trips than city driving which l cant figure out??

MrSparkle · 27-09-2005, 05:52 PM

Wheels mag just out, a three way comparo between Liberty 2.5i, the new Mazda 6 Luxury Sports, and Accord Euro Lux. They ultimately gave the nod to the new 6, followed by Accord and Liberty last. It's a pretty close call though between them all and they don't hesitate to say that.

Accord was quickest, Liberty was most frugal, but they considered the 6 to be the best overall package.

For my money, the grip of the AWD is enough to put the Liberty over the line. It is hillarious fun on a really heavy duty rainy day - that's when I tested one actually.

Worth a read and may give you a few insights, anyway!

Paxton · 27-09-2005, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSparkle

Wheels mag just out, a three way comparo between Liberty 2.5i, the new Mazda 6 Luxury Sports, and Accord Euro Lux. They ultimately gave the nod to the new 6, followed by Accord and Liberty last. It's a pretty close call though between them all and they don't hesitate to say that.

Accord was quickest, Liberty was most frugal, but they considered the 6 to be the best overall package.

For my money, the grip of the AWD is enough to put the Liberty over the line. It is hillarious fun on a really heavy duty rainy day - that's when I tested one actually.

Worth a read and may give you a few insights, anyway!

I haven't actually seen the latest Wheels yet, but I have been searching for it, mainly due to the 380 tests. I am going to find it tomorrow if it kills me. Thanks for the heads up.

I haven't done anything today re cars. I took the Subaru back, and then got home and climbed back into bed. I have not been well today. Bloody Flu.

-Andrew

turboute · 27-09-2005, 09:54 PM

Can you afford a replacement lexus?

Paxton · 27-09-2005, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turboute

Can you afford a replacement lexus?

It is not that I don't like the Lexus, because I do, however I believe that in the next year or so, I will have the need for a bigger car. I have tried to fill the boot with Golf Clubs, however I needed to put the seats down, and because of the lack of a 60/40 split fold seat, I couldn't. Can you imagine this with a pram?

I can't afford, and don't want a Lexus Camry, and a GS300 is WAY out of my reach. A Subaru Liberty, or a Honda Accord is a much better car for my needs, and the boot is big enough to fit the needs of the car presented to it. As you have already read, I am planning for future needs, and would like a car that would last 5 years before requiring a replacement. A Liberty, or Accord will fit that bill, whereas an expensive Lexus won't.

-Andrew

The Taipan · 28-09-2005, 08:12 PM

Latest Wheels might be interesting to you Andrew. The Liberty and Accord are placed against the updated Mazda6. Quite a thorough review, and results are as close and indecisive as you already are, but they have probably looked at things you might not have thought of...

6 got the prize, based on its better ride/handling, quieter interior(!), better gearshift and brakes, and better sounding engine. Drew criticism for the rear seats being too flat, and course-road rumble.

Accord was loved for is fabulous drivetrain, lovely seats, quality, handling and value. While criticised for its lack of steering feel, ride compliance and road noise.

Liberty impressed with its superb quality, lush chassis balance, supple ride, grip and character. While its gearbox, flat drivers seat and mediocre body control got its criticsm.

In the numbers Accord is the most powerful, but not substantially quicker on the standing start. It is a good half-second quicker from 80-120 though...
Least power to the 6, but also thirstiest. Boot capacity 492L in the 6, 459L in the Accord and 433L in the Liberty. Liberty is the most economical.

Let us know how you go with the testdrives.

Good luck, I'm sure no matter what you pick you'll have a nice set of wheels and they won't be too much of a dissapointment...

MrSparkle · 28-09-2005, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Taipan

Latest Wheels might be interesting to you Andrew.

*cough* ... post 43 ... *cough* .... ahem! :Reverend:

Deadman · 28-09-2005, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yaw

Mazda 6 sp23 if your gunna go that way, Honda the Accord Euro Lux are very nice, both hold resale well, but I would wait to see the 380 myself also its only a few weeks away. Get her a monthly bus ticket in the short term

:

There's an SP23 version of the Mazda6? I don't think there is. I think you're thinking about the Mazda3 SP23 (still an awesome $30k car worth looking at!)

If you can splurge - go the new Mazda6 MPS (turbo AWD version!) :thebirds:

And yeah, wait and see what the 380 offers to.

MrSparkle · 28-09-2005, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ford_Falcon_XR6

If you can splurge - go the new Mazda6 MPS (turbo AWD version!) :thebirds:

Wouldn't go near it. Firstly, it is 1600kg!!! That's right, heavier than my old EL XR8!!! Secondly and even worse, it's AWD is not really AWD. It is predominantly FWD but can send up to 50% MAXIMUM to the rear. Totally the wrong way around. It's like a reverse ATESSA which means it is just STUPID.

FFS, it's the same mechanism that soft roaders use - and it's meant to be a performance car! :MrT_anim:

At that pricepoint, you would be much MUCH better off with either the Liberty GT or 3.0R-B. :eclipsee_

Deadman · 28-09-2005, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSparkle

That's right, heavier than my old EL XR8!!!

It's also faster (and more powerful)

:

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSparkle

At that pricepoint, you would be much MUCH better off with either the Liberty GT or 3.0R-B. :eclipsee_

In your opinion...

My advice to the poster about these cars - definately go test drive all your options, you might be suprised what appeals to you! Just thought you might want to throw the Mazda6 MPS on the list. The Mazda6 is a great car, and with a turbo and power to rear wheels (not just front) it might (or might not) push your buttons. I'd still suggest a test drive

Good luck with it! Let us know what you pick

:

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSparkle

I have driven most of the mid sizers except the Mazda6

maybe you should grab a test drive to :Reverend:

The Taipan · 28-09-2005, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSparkle

*cough* ... post 43 ... *cough* .... ahem! :Reverend:

whoops, had too long away from the computer, got the mag today, and saw the article - instantly thought of Andrew's situation, so I had to post straight away (somehow thinking that the world could possibly sell-out of wheels mags tomorrow and he could somehow miss out!) I guess I should have looked first!

SL :gren:

: :rolleyes:

MrSparkle · 28-09-2005, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ford_Falcon_XR6

It's also faster (and more powerful)

:

And so it should be!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ford_Falcon_XR6

My advice to the poster about these cars - definately go test drive all your options, you might be suprised what appeals to you!

Absolutely right! I'm going to try and get a drive in one anyway to see if my shameless bias against it matches the driving experience

Will also be good to judge against my baseline drives in both Liberty GT and 3.0R-B. Too many test drives is never enough!

:

Paxton · 28-09-2005, 09:07 PM

The Mazda MPS is a manual only from my reading. I can't have a manual, and a turbo doesn't really appeal to me. The accord euro is nice, however I still lust over the composure of the Liberty. The handling of the two FWD's (Accord and Mazda 6) is mediocre. The quality of the Honda blows me away, and I still remember my neighbor's 1979 Accord. It did 2,000,000 Kms before they towed it away for scrap. He bought it with 1,000,000 on the clock, and it still went like new until the gearbox died. They replaced it with a Holden Astra.

The Mazda 6 was a nice car, the gearbox is great, however the NVH issues are still present in the car, yet it is still on the short list. Saturday presents a car buying day. I think it will be between the Liberty H6 and the Mazda 6. By how much a difference I don't know. The Accord is nice, however I don't think I want a Honda. Not because I am biased, but because of the salesman pushing me into a Thai Accord. He wouldn't lend me a Euro, instead he wanted me to take the full sized one for 48 hours, and then he would lend me the Euro. I will ask another dealer tomorrow, presuming I feel better, but my two to choose from seems set in stone. The Wife loves the Liberty, but she likes the Mazda also. I hate making decisions like this.

-Andrew

Paxton · 29-09-2005, 08:35 PM

It is interesting how your day starts off. The Wife and I decided today that we were going to buy a car. We walked into the Subaru Dealership and asked for a test drive of the H6 again. My Salesman wasn't in yet, so we decided to go up to Mazda to have a look at the Sports Luxury Hatch. They only had a Luxury Automatic to drive, so we drove that, and came away very impressed. I then drove the Sports Luxury Manual, and again, I was impressed with the setup, and the responsiveness of the Fly-By-Wire Throttle (Ford, you can learn something from this). We went back to Subaru after getting told $44,000 with our options, on the road.

The drive of the Mazda6 was enough to plant seeds of doubt in my mind as to which the Liberty MAY NOT be the best car for us. We may be better off with the Mazda. We drove the Liberty again, and My Wife was picking faults in the Liberty at every turn. The Seats, the radio, the engine note, the Tip-Tronic being the wrong way around (I never knew she used it in the Territory), so we did the figures, and at $52,000 with my options, we decided to 'take another day' to think it over. Her and my minds were made up. The Mazda6 it was to be.

In 6 weeks, we will be the proud owners of a Brand New Mazda6 Sports Luxury Hatch in Graphite, or 'Brilliant Carbon Grey'. The dealer also threw in MPS Mag wheels and Carpet Mats for nothing. I believe my work is done, and now I will need to join www.mazdaforums.com.au.

-Andrew

Psycho Chicken · 29-09-2005, 08:42 PM

Congrats on the purchase! They seem to be a nice car, wish I could get a spin in an MPS. Why join Mazda forums? Might as well be a Ford ;)

I haven't driven a 6, but the fly by wire can't be any worse than the Subaru's one. I can stick it to the floor, bring my foot up and it'll barely move on the tacho. At least you don't have to worry about the floor carpet wearing away in no time. Replaced two this week, woohoo!

MrSparkle · 29-09-2005, 08:55 PM

Good work! I don't think you'll be unhappy with the 6, the couple of people I know that are owners are most chuffed. Good deal you got with the rims too!

That price on the Liberty is a bit steep, but sadly that's Subaru dealers for you. VERY hard to haggle with them and that is partly the cause of their good resale value.

Be sure to post up some pics when you get it!

**Mechan1k** · 30-09-2005, 08:47 AM

My Fiancee's brother has one in the exact same colour ... very nice car ... nice stereo ... handles VERY nice ... a "little underpowered" ... and it's need for PULP is a bit of a turn-off.

But he has been very happy with the car since he bought it new nearly a year ago .... has never had to take it in for any sort of warranty issue AT ALL. Has been run perfectly for him since the day he picked it up new.

The Taipan · 30-09-2005, 10:05 AM

I was surprised when I drove the six how well it handles. In the Wheels WASP (safety performence) test it won (being the safest popular base model vehicle). It romped home in the handling tests - boasting better cornering G's than a BMW 330i which is something special for a fwd. Accord Euro was thrown into the mix as well, and had good cornering forces too, but its ride was far more choppy. I think you have made a great choice, but truly would you have had real trouble with ANY of those three in your driveway? In which case it often comes down to who is willing to work the hardest to get your sale...

Congratulations! I hope you enjoy many years of problem free motoring in your new wheels!

Till_Lind · 30-09-2005, 09:52 PM

Get the Accord Euro, great looking car.

EDIT: Ooops, should of read the second page, lol. Anyway, that's another good looking car.