Diesel - why aren't there more? - Page 2

dave351cid · 30-11-2006, 08:43 PM

a few years ago i remember reading an artical on mercedes and they said that they had more diesel engine optioned cars than petrol in europe including performance models but they could not sell them in australia because of the very low grade of fuel available here.

the fuel grade must be improving with more and more diesel powered cars becoming available in the last couple of years.

i have met a couple of people who own the new Citroen C5 with 5 cyl turbo diesel and they both could not get over how economical the cars are (one guy recons his fuel useage read out while doing 100kmh on a long section of flat straight road was 0.5 litres per 100km ) and seemed very happy with performance as well. his last car was an EL fairmont .

i will put in my order now for a new 4lt turbo diesel XLS spec RTV falcon ute.

:

sgt_doofey · 30-11-2006, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dave351cid

one guy recons his fuel useage read out while doing 100kmh on a long section of flat straight road was 0.5 litres per 100km

Downhill, our readout says 0.0L/100kms. Generally on flat road, we are getting about 4-5L/100kms out of the Peugeot.

schmidty · 30-11-2006, 11:18 PM

Anyone who thinks diesels are dirty, sluggish, smelly and inefficient rattle box oil burners really needs to do themselves a favour and get out and drive a new common rail Turbo Diesel. Just the advances in the las 2 - 3 years are huge!

Anyone who's a sceptic, go to your local VW dealer and test drive a 2.0 TDI golf with the DSG gearbox! Holy crap do they fly!!! So refined, so cheap to run (5.0 - 5.5L per 100km) and you'll eat so many unsuspecting falcons and commodores at the lights it's not funny!

DID Pajero, not the latest greatest thing in the way of diesels, but i know of someone who regularly tows a race car on trailer up to willowbank and it returns an average fuel consumption of 11L per 100km for the trip with car on trailer, and all of the gear and people in the car. It eats the hills, and is smooth and clean to drive.

My BA XR6 ute struggles to pull 11L per 100km empty on flat freeway!

Dont judge a diesel until you drive a new 1!

sgt_doofey · 01-12-2006, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schmidty

Dont judge a diesel until you drive a new 1!

Too true! :eclipsee_

DanXR6T · 01-12-2006, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Green X

.. the Original diesel engine was designed to run on peanut oil I believe...

Confirmed, dead true!! Good ole Rudolph Diesel knew where it's at!

(it's my job to know that)

I drive a 06 Navara for work, 6spd, turbo 2.5L common rail diesel, and I think it's great. It did take some getting used to, but I easily get 9L/100kms doing my daily duties, although consumption can double towing heavy loads and when I am in a hurry...

Don't even compare these turbo common rail diesels to old Hilux's, the old 2.7L n/a Hliux four banger was a slug, but modern engines, yes, lightyears ahead..

Dan...

Richo72 · 01-12-2006, 01:13 PM

Most (but not all) people don't do big miles and at low mileage diesel fuel savings often don't offset the higher purchase price of the car. Then again many people won't do their sums....

For example compare two Golfs (am using standard manufacturers claims to keep things simple)

2.0 Tdi Comfortline $34,790rrp - consumption 6.1 l/100
2.0 FSI Comfortline $32,290rrp - consumption 8.6l/100

The diesel is $2,500 more expensive

If both cars do 20,000km per year (a not unreasonable average) fuel usage and costs would be:
2.0 Tdi Comfortline - 1,220 litres @ $1.24 = $1,512.80
2.0 FSI Comfortline - 1,720 litres @ $1.16 = $1,995.20

The diesel uses much less fuel (30%) but diesel is more expensive so the annual saving is only $480.00

Since the diesel cost $2,500 more than the petrol...at 20,000km a year it would take 5 years to recoup the incremental purchase price.

If the car was under finance at a fairly standard 10%, the $2,500 price difference equates to an extra $250 per year (roughly) the savings therefore becoming only $230 annually.

Suddenly the payback period is more than 10 years...

Now I've never kept a car for that long and given where I live don't do much more than 20k in any year. So for me a diesel car doesn't make that much sense. If I was doing BIG mileage however, they would definitely be on my shopping list!!

So an inner suburbanite doing even lower k's and driving a diesel has either made an ill informed environmental call (diesel is more polluting albeit cleaner burning than they used to be) or is no good at maths.

f6speedster · 01-12-2006, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richo72

Most (but not all) people don't do big miles and at low mileage diesel fuel savings often don't offset the higher purchase price of the car. Then again many people won't do their sums....

For example compare two Golfs (am using standard manufacturers claims to keep things simple)

2.0 Tdi Comfortline $34,790rrp - consumption 6.1 l/100
2.0 FSI Comfortline $32,290rrp - consumption 8.6l/100

The diesel is $2,500 more expensive

If both cars do 20,000km per year (a not unreasonable average) fuel usage and costs would be:
2.0 Tdi Comfortline - 1,220 litres @ $1.24 = $1,512.80
2.0 FSI Comfortline - 1,720 litres @ $1.16 = $1,995.20

The diesel uses much less fuel (30%) but diesel is more expensive so the annual saving is only $480.00

Since the diesel cost $2,500 more than the petrol...at 20,000km a year it would take 5 years to recoup the incremental purchase price.

If the car was under finance at a fairly standard 10%, the $2,500 price difference equates to an extra $250 per year (roughly) the savings therefore becoming only $230 annually.

Suddenly the payback period is more than 10 years...

Now I've never kept a car for that long and given where I live don't do much more than 20k in any year. So for me a diesel car doesn't make that much sense. If I was doing BIG mileage however, they would definitely be on my shopping list!!

So an inner suburbanite doing even lower k's and driving a diesel has either made an ill informed environmental call (diesel is more polluting albeit cleaner burning than they used to be) or is no good at maths.

I have a 2.0 TDI golf and I drive it hard like my Typhoon and I get 750k out of a 55L tank. It is unbelievable how much torque it has.

I drove from liverpool to gold coast 5 weeks ago and did it on 1 tank and we were moving. On the return trip it was the same and my mate following me in his typhoon had to fill up twice. I wanted to take my phoon but was waiting for a diff replacment.

sgt_doofey · 01-12-2006, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richo72

diesel is more polluting albeit cleaner burning than they used to be

Not the newer ones. They emit less emissions that a standard ULP car.

MrSparkle · 01-12-2006, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richo72

Most (but not all) people don't do big miles and at low mileage diesel fuel savings often don't offset the higher purchase price of the car. Then again many people won't do their sums....

There's more to it than just consumption and initial price difference. Add in the very real factor of resale, and the whole argument changes. Don't believe me? Go talk to a dealer and see how much they will budge on a TDI model, be it new, demo, or used, and then repeat the process for an FSI.

I chose mine because even with the price premium over the FSI, it was a better drive and I was forecasting that it would have better resale to boot which is a tangible thing for self confessed car sluts like myself who can't commit to one car for more than a year! :Reverend:

**Mechan1k** · 01-12-2006, 05:45 PM

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Hence the massive run-out commercials on the FSI models on TV at the moment.
They can't move them and are trying to get rid of old stock.
TDi's have a waiting list for most models.

mutanti · 01-12-2006, 06:06 PM

I was touring around Europe earlier this year and could not believe the amount of Diesels getting around Europe, Even the Fords there were diesels.
My Cousin In Lake Como in Italy had a Audi A3 turbo and it had some great kick in the pedal, also diesel.....

dave351cid · 02-12-2006, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgt_doofey

Downhill, our readout says 0.0L/100kms. Generally on flat road, we are getting about 4-5L/100kms out of the Peugeot.

(one guy recons his fuel useage read out while doing 100kmh on a long section of flat straight road was 0.5 litres per 100km ) and seemed very happy with performance as well. his last car was an EL fairmont .

this bloke was laughing, he took his car back to the dealer to have the fuel gauge checked because he was sure it must be reading wrong..... they just laughed at him and said it was normal.

HOON69 · 02-12-2006, 12:46 AM

diesel/gas research has shown its your best bang for buck and if i ahd the money etc i'd be in a tubo diesel rig of my own.

add gas and your set for life i reckon.

hilux aint bad is it current model or what yr is it?

sgt_doofey · 02-12-2006, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HOON69

diesel/gas research has shown its your best bang for buck and if i ahd the money etc i'd be in a tubo diesel rig of my own.

add gas and your set for life i reckon.

That's what I've done. The Pug on Diesel and the Falcon on LPG. Cost me $35 a week to do 500kms in the Falcon and the wife pays about $70 a month for doing 900kms in the Pug.

Hardtopxb · 02-12-2006, 02:14 PM

My brother has a Peugeot (work car small diesel dont know model) he reckons a women pushing a pram out dragged him from one set of lights to another, it was close though.But it has fantastic fuel economy..

chevypower · 02-12-2006, 03:31 PM

must have been a pretty strong women to push a pram that was "dragging" the car behind it! :-)

the_scotsman · 02-12-2006, 03:54 PM

Yea, in the UK, the split between petrol diesel is probably close to 40/60 I'd say...diesel cars are a very common sight over there...

mik · 02-12-2006, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_scotsman

Yea, in the UK, the split between petrol diesel is probably close to 40/60 I'd say...diesel cars are a very common sight over there...

is diesel more expensive to buy over there?

T3rminator · 02-12-2006, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HOON69

diesel/gas research has shown its your best bang for buck and if i ahd the money etc i'd be in a tubo diesel rig of my own.

add gas and your set for life i reckon.

hilux aint bad is it current model or what yr is it?

Yeh its a late 2006 model 3L Turbo Diesel SR 4x4 Common Rail (whatever that means).

It's great to drive, I am very impressed how well it pulls the 1850kg 4x4.
Has really good get up and go for 1st and 2nd gear but the tall gearing means when you shift into 3rd its more of a cruise. I'm still running it in at the moment so haven't really given it any stick. Not allowed to accelerate using full throttle for the first 1000kms or so.

Peak torque at 1400RPM means its almost impossible to stall.....I can drive off in 1st gear without using the accelerator. Tested this the other day.

One of these engines in a smaller lighter car would be no slouch.

Cooper69S · 02-12-2006, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgt_doofey

Not the newer ones. They emit less emissions that a standard ULP car.

i read recently that diesel is considered cleaner than petrol only because its usually more efficient and if you compare emissions on a per litre used basis petrol is still cleaner - but possibly it was referring to older tech diesels i can't recall if it specified which type of diesel - i was more interested in lpg emissions at the time - was trying to find out if i'd been misinformed when i was told i could remove the cat converters after my straight-gas lpg conversion - yes i was misinformed...

:

XR8-260 · 03-12-2006, 12:24 AM

Turbo diesel is the pick for pure drivability and economy although it may not have the outright performance of a 6 or 8. I drove an ML270CDI with a power to weight ratio of 18kg/kw but 400NM low low down. It felt more effortless than my BA 6.

:

sgt_doofey · 03-12-2006, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hardtopxb

My brother has a Peugeot (work car small diesel dont know model) he reckons a women pushing a pram out dragged him from one set of lights to another, it was close though.But it has fantastic fuel economy..

I had a bit of a drag with a Turbo Silvia last night in the 307. He beat me, but I wasn't far behind. I wonder if he realised that I was driving a diesel?

Quote:

Originally Posted by fullthrottle

I'm still running it in at the moment so haven't really given it any stick. Not allowed to accelerate using full throttle for the first 1000kms or so.

I thought that you are supposed to give them a bit of stick right from the start to bed the rings in? That's what I did (am still doing) with our Pug, first time was with about 30kms on the clock. We're now up to just under 7,000kms.