Fog / Driving Lights and the Cops

[RED_EL_XR8]

Originally Posted by banarcus

Well its a very stupid offence if you ask me. I've had 4x4 low beams that dazzle me far more than a fog light. I work with guys that just love to fine those who use them, I for one would rather target those scum who break into and steal cars.

Perhaps, car makers should wire these supposed "fog lights" into the high beam wiring like conventional driving lights. I cant see many people using them as fog lights but rather an extra light to use in the dark whether it be foggy or not.

Good call!!!

The BA lamps are most effective in fog with the headlamps off, linking them to high beam prohibits this.

It is a courtesy thing, and drivers from both windscreens should be doing whatever to avoid dazzle, on the other hand you should be doing whatever possible to be seen and to see the surrounding roadway.

Within the CBD an the many well lit motorways the foglamps will improve a drivers vision in the periphery and will not unduely dazzle others. On dark single lane country roadways I can see the fog lamps becoming a dazzle problem to oncoming traffic and in this situation it would be nice to kill them as you dipped to low beam. Anyone think of a smart solution for switching them both ways?

And thanks banarcus for showing that a bit of discretion is still out there, a that some things are not always clear cut. Car theft however is a little more easily defined, hit the offenders with every fine you can think of.

Originally Posted by back2thefutura

All i will say to that is that youre quite entitled to your opinion, but try driving some of the roads i do and you'll see why i use them.

Mate. No problem. See, everyone has their own issues to deal with. Try driving all night and putting up with selfish fools who don't realise that when you're coming at another vehicle no matter which way you toss the coin it's still an additional 110w of lighting that produces glare. Multiply that by all the Holdens in particular and all the times you come across a car on a slight gradient and your argument starts to look just a little pale.

Which is why, in my view, I choose to return the favour.

Stop thinking about yourself.

As for fining people, that's a bit petty as well. We should be able to have people consider others a bit more without grumbly cops writing superfluous tickets.

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by Aussie Pete

Mate. No problem. See, everyone has their own issues to deal with. Try driving all night and putting up with selfish fools who don't realise that when you're coming at another vehicle no matter which way you toss the coin it's still an additional 110w of lighting that produces glare. Multiply that by all the Holdens in particular and all the times you come across a car on a slight gradient and your argument starts to look just a little pale.

Well we could argue about it all night i guess but my view is that in the right conditions they're perfectly harmless. Driven past numerous HWP units out of town with them on and had not even as much as a glance. I'm not saying you're wrong but im not saying i am either. Each to their own.

[zetec]

You can always tell someone sho's never driven in the country before... when on open backroads, country highways or the like I use regular beam and foggies, using the high-beams and dipping them before a crests as a warning and also to check for oncoming traffic. I ensure I dip them as soon as I see the halo over the horizon of an oncoming vehicle. As for the fogs, on a country road late at night, I use them to supplement my main beams, I want every ounce of bug's wings, rabbit foot and kangaroo tail lit up for as far as possible to see everything. Any cop who can argue that THAT is unsafe has rocks in his head. I find they light up the sides of the road better, the fringes. They are designed to be a low-wide spread on my car, and my understanding on most. The only car that seems to blatantly have twin SEARCHLIGHTS installed is any model Commodore post VX with the round foggies. Those things are a disgrace. They'd be useless in fog surely since they're SO bright and aim too far forward right?

City driving doesn't warrant foggies, I am guilty, will admit, but only because of the design of my bumper and that the cut-off for the bottom of the beam is too far in front of my car so the fogs cover the gap. They work wonders in the fog when used "legally" or as designed or whatever you please.

Rather than disconneting them from main beam and linking them to high beam (thus defeating the entire purpose of having fog lights which stop you from using your high-beam in fog as it is useless) why don't they.... aaah yes... I know. It makes too much sense. Education. Never going to happen.

[GTP 320]

Over in Norway or Sweden,it is compulsory to have the headlights on all the time 24/7
Cheers John

[JC]

John - that might be something to do with the fact that they only have 3 or 4 hours of daylight during winter. And that has nothing to do with driving lights.

My opinion? Whether they are driving lights (clear) or fog lights (yellow/orange), if:
They are aimed low, and
you are not in a built up area, and
there is no oncoming traffic;

then have them on. As soon as any of these variables change, you should switch them off. Now there is always an exception to a rule, so for me, the only exception would be YELLOW/ORANGE fog lights in a built up area when it is FOGGY - and I say that because I live in Canberra, and it gets very foggy, and when it is foggy, it is good to be able to see.

[Blue Oval Mopar Man]

Driving lights are NO different to spot lights! If you drive around with your spot lights on you would EXPECT to get booked! Why do people find that so hard to understand! I for one am sick of being blinded by w*#kers with their FAG lights on ! Have a little respect for other road users!

[Rodp]

I'm a hater of these lights as well. I've never really bought the 'they make me more visible' or 'they light more of the road for me to see'. In both the SS and the XR8 I have now, I've put them on with low beam to see how much more of the road they light up. Yeah, it lights up the immediate road infront of you (and in the XR8 I have to lean up and forward to notice it), but if you concentrate on the part of road at anytime that it lights up then I hope you're never coming in the opposite direction to me... if it lights up any more road that what's infront of you then a) they're incorrectly aimed b) you'll likely dazzling oncoming traffic with them.

Turn the poser lights off, do us all a favour.

[BA Bakes]

Originally Posted by Blue Oval Mopar Man

Driving lights are NO different to spot lights! If you drive around with your spot lights on you would EXPECT to get booked! Why do people find that so hard to understand! I for one am sick of being blinded by w*#kers with their FAG lights on ! Have a little respect for other road users!

The BA light are 55W bulbs, unless people change them to a high wattage. Spotlight are normally around the 100W range. So therefore a S#!^ load brighter and there's a diffenrence there. Also, spotlight are to be wired to high beams only.

Also the BA lights dont have as much light aimed upward as the bumper shape acts as a shroud unlike the commonwhore ones.

I remember reading somewhere that there is a difference between fog and driving lights. Fogs light have yellow/orange lights and driving light and white.

I total argee with you guys regarding them blinding on coming traffic. But i'll bet my left nut that the ones that blind / dazzle on coming traffic have been incorrectly aimed and bulbs higher then 55W

[T3man]

Fog lights on all the time is one of my pet hates. It's nothing more than a "look at me" cry by attention seeking, mostly WRX and SS, drivers. It galls me to see Ford drivers emulating the knuckle-draggers.

For those people who use the excuse that they can:-

1. be more visible to others, either day or night, - what's wrong with your normal low beams for this, the fog lights are set so low to the ground that the range of visibility to oncoming traffic is substantially less than your normal headlights;

2. help see better on country roads at night, - at any speed over 60km/h they are no assistance whatsoever in helping you to see or to avoid hitting a stray animal on the side of the road as the beam is simply not projecting anywhere near to your braking distance;

3. help to see the verge of the road better when in built up areas, - this has some merit, but unfortunately unless it is raining or foggy, or there is some other atmospheric condition prevailing that limits your visibility, then it is illegal to use them for this purpose.

4. make my car look good, - W@NKER!, see my comment above ...

Fog lights are very usefull BUT so many are poorly adjusted that the benefit of having them is often negated. Due to their positioning, low to the ground, and the nature of the beam pattern flat and wide, they are much more difficult to adjust accurately than headlights or driving lights. There is only a slight difference between being next to useless except for worm spotting, or glaring in the eyes of oncoming traffic.

All my cars have fog lights - have done since I first started my licenced driving in the early seventies. But I'll only use them when conditions demand.

PS the fog lights fitted to SS Crumpledoors are not even ADR or EEC approved and I don't know how they pass rego in any state of Australia.

[b2tf]

I think i may end up taking some photos at night of them working for me. Feel free to come on a drive with me at night out to my gf's place - hilly, narrow and rough roads with paddocks on either side, some not fenced, and you see if they make any difference or not. Give all the reasons you like - im telling you from my experience and in my case, they work for me.Doesnt mean they're good for everyone.

[RED_EL_XR8]

Originally Posted by T3man

Fog lights are very usefull BUT so many are poorly adjusted that the benefit of having them is often negated. Due to their positioning, low to the ground, and the nature of the beam pattern flat and wide, they are much more difficult to adjust accurately than headlights or driving lights. There is only a slight difference between being next to useless except for worm spotting, or glaring in the eyes of oncoming traffic.

Err how exactly do you come to this conclusion, when the Fog lamp beam is setup for a downward pattern, the lamps are (should be) mounted low. And the factory mounts restrict lateral movement. Any well designed setup will not cause problems, just because some vehicles are poor does not meen all vehicles need to be restricted.

The allen key setup for the BA makes them a breeze to adjust very acurately. Unlike some of the cheapo aftermarket stuff which should be in the dumpmaster out back of supacheap where it belongs.

All the macho opinions in the world and ricer references, wont stop the BA fog lamps being a useful aid to driver vision without inconveniecing other road users. If you cannot hand 4 lamps coming at you even when they are perfectly well adjusted and non obtrusive, then maybe you should limit your excursions from dawn till dusk. :

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by RED_EL_XR8

All the macho opinions in the world and ricer references, wont stop the BA fog lamps being a useful aid to driver vision without inconveniecing other road users. If you cannot hand 4 lamps coming at you even when they are perfectly well adjusted and non obtrusive, then maybe you should limit your excursions from dawn till dusk. :

A-Bloody-men.

[T3man]

Originally Posted by back2thefutura

I think i may end up taking some photos at night of them working for me. Feel free to come on a drive with me at night out to my gf's place - hilly, narrow and rough roads with paddocks on either side, some not fenced, and you see if they make any difference or not. Give all the reasons you like - im telling you from my experience and in my case, they work for me.Doesnt mean they're good for everyone.

Hey, I've been to your GF's place - I had no trouble finding my way without foggies, in fact her preference is NO lights on ...

Anyhow, whatever works for you eh ...

[T3man]

Originally Posted by RED_EL_XR8

Err how exactly do you come to this conclusion, when the Fog lamp beam is setup for a downward pattern, the lamps are (should be) mounted low. And the factory mounts restrict lateral movement. Any well designed setup will not cause problems, just because some vehicles are poor does not meen all vehicles need to be restricted.

The allen key setup for the BA makes them a breeze to adjust very acurately. Unlike some of the cheapo aftermarket stuff which should be in the dumpmaster out back of supacheap where it belongs.

All the macho opinions in the world and ricer references, wont stop the BA fog lamps being a useful aid to driver vision without inconveniecing other road users. If you cannot hand 4 lamps coming at you even when they are perfectly well adjusted and non obtrusive, then maybe you should limit your excursions from dawn till dusk. :

You suffering fool - you just don't read do you? Nothing in your reply has any relationship to what I posted. :

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by T3man

Hey, I've been to your GF's place - I had no trouble finding my way without foggies, in fact her preference is NO lights on ...

Anyhow, whatever works for you eh ...

Hmm, somehow i dont think her driveway would allow you in - its hard enough in a Focus at stock ride height : .

[RED_EL_XR8]

Originally Posted by T3man

You suffering fool - you just don't read do you? Nothing in your reply has any relationship to what I posted. :

Except your nonsense about worm spotting and adjustment difficulties. Think of it like a computer, you inability is correctly operate or adjust it is not a weakness of the device. :

Your rudeness is neither constructive nor necessary.

[T3man]

Originally Posted by RED_EL_XR8

Except your nonsense about worm spotting and adjustment difficulties. Think of it like a computer, you inability is correctly operate or adjust it is not a weakness of the device. :

Your rudeness is neither constructive nor necessary.

I don't have a problem with adjusting my lights at all - this is just an example of where you are totally misreading and/or misunderstanding my post. Put your glasses on and try again

If you can't distinguish between humour and rudeness, I can certainly now better understand your stated lack of tolerance towards people not as clever as yourself.

Sorry if anything I posted offended you ...

[deesun]

Nobody here is saying they shouldn't use their spotties at all but in suburbia they are next to the ashtray on a motorbike for usefulness,by the time you see anything that these lights have picked up youv'e run over it. They are brighter than normal beams and can be glarey but usually people are useing them as a pose and not much else. Not only that,although lots of people use them it is still against the law as they come under the same rules as high beam. _

[T3man]

Originally Posted by deesun

Nobody here is saying they shouldn't use their spotties at all but in suburbia they are next to the ashtray on a motorbike for usefulness,by the time you see anything that these lights have picked up youv'e run over it. They are brighter than normal beams and can be glarey but usually people are useing them as a pose and not much else. Not only that,although lots of people use them it is still against the law as they come under the same rules as high beam. _

Well it is clear you don't own a Ford car with them fitted. They are not brighter than normal beams - 55w, same as low beam.

Also, they do not come under the same regulations as high beam.

Agreed however that most people use them only to pose ...

[RED_EL_XR8]

Originally Posted by deesun

....... Not only that,although lots of people use them it is still against the law as they come under the same rules as high beam. _

The laws as presented are entirely unclear, and in NSW at least it is not illegal to drive with hi beem illuminated in a built up area, it is illegal not to dip high beam within 300m of an oncoming vehicle. There is nowhere in the rules that state fog lamps should be regarded as high beem headlamps.

Can anyone who has copped one of these fines please state exactly what infringement was on the ticket?

[FNQracing]

To the OP - under what conditions did you have them on? Was it foggy?

I agree with alot of the posters here in thinking these lights are used for poser value. If it ain't foggy then why use them? If you're concerned about visibility, use your headlights. The fact the the coppers booked you tells me you probably had them on in good conditions.

One of my pet hates too.

[Full Noise]

It’s a bout time the coppers started booking these inconsiderate people that insist on driving around with their ****er lights on, day or night.
If I was a HWP officer I would take out my baton and smash the bloody things after I handed the offending driver a ticket. If anyone out there thinks these lights are useful go and get your bloody eyes checked or do us all a favour and hand your licence in. If any one out there thinks these thing look cool on your car go and smack your head against a brick wall and buy a bloody Holden.

THESE LIGHTS ARE BLOODY USELESS.

Also please don’t confuse ****er lights with fog lights as fog lights need to be pointed along the road and have coloured lenses to be effective, and unlike ****er lights, fog lights serve a useful purpose. :

Cheers, Danny

[Full Noise]

Also if anyone out there thinks they are safer because the can be seen by other drivers, forget it. If someone doesn’t look for you they won’t see you.

If anyone out there wants to see what happened to the bloke that pulled out in front me in the B-Double I drive 20/04/05, PM me with your e-mail address and I will send some pics. If someone can’t see a B-Double in the middle of the day in perfect conditions, would ****er lights make any difference?

Cheers, Danny

[XKALBR]

and unlike ****er lights

Is that what you have on the side and top of your truck :

[RED_EL_XR8]

Originally Posted by Full Noise

It’s a bout time the coppers started booking these inconsiderate people that insist on driving around with their ****er lights on, day or night.
If I was a HWP officer I would take out my baton and smash the bloody things after I handed the offending driver a ticket. If anyone out there thinks these lights are useful go and get your bloody eyes checked or do us all a favour and hand your licence in. If any one out there thinks these thing look cool on your car go and smack your head against a brick wall and buy a bloody Holden.

THESE LIGHTS ARE BLOODY USELESS.

Also please don’t confuse ****er lights with fog lights as fog lights need to be pointed along the road and have coloured lenses to be effective, and unlike ****er lights, fog lights serve a useful purpose. :

Cheers, Danny

Strikes me, by some of the responses here that the anti-lamps brigade may be the most image conscious of of all the respondants?

They are my lamps and I'll decide when they useful thanks, I can decide if I want to use them to suppliment my headlights in low or high beam or to use them with parkers in a low beam situation.

And no a fog lamp does not have to be coloured to be effective, with all due respect I think the people at Ford, Bosch, Hella etc may have done just a bit of research before fitting these lamps. And with all the ADRs there isn't too much manufacturers in this country can fit just because it may look cool.

All these ****ers chants, are the products of tiny and closed minds, and i'd hazard a guess at a bit of anti fashion.

As yet no-one has produced any clear cut legislation that strictly probibits the use of the lamps. More importantly no-one has produced a shred of a reason why they should not be used as long as they are correctly adjusted. A badly adjusted headlamp can dazzle to as can the lamps from an overladen vehicle. Should we seek to stamp out headlamps too? As these can dazzle oncoming drivers too if poorly aligned.

This war on under bumper lamps comes from the same roots as those "Milk comes in 2L" stickers, hell you can almost hear the banjos playing as you read the "dont use them foglamps" responses.

I'll use driving/fog lamps when I consider it safe and appropriate, I dont think it makes my car look particularly cool, nor do I think their use detracts from the appearance. Nothing to do with image, and I haven't seen too many coppas outraged that I've had them on. Seems to me its just another of those handy fines, for throw the book at them time. And as our policeman friend said, we'd all be more happy if HWP were concentrating on more important stuff like car theft.

[RED_EL_XR8]

Originally Posted by Full Noise

Also if anyone out there thinks they are safer because the can be seen by other drivers, forget it. If someone doesn’t look for you they won’t see you.

If anyone out there wants to see what happened to the bloke that pulled out in front me in the B-Double I drive 20/04/05, PM me with your e-mail address and I will send some pics. If someone can’t see a B-Double in the middle of the day in perfect conditions, would ****er lights make any difference?

Cheers, Danny

maybe if they had supplimentary lights on you may have seen them.

And the b-double that came up my *** flashing god knows how many lamps in my rear view mirror and carrying on like a full fledged mental defective because I was only doing 10kph over the limit in a speed camera limited tunnel? Do you think he was concerned about glare or dazzling another driver?, what could I do but slow to 20Kph for safety? Funny thing is with a hill up out of the tunnel this B-double didn't seem to be able to accelerate up as quick as the XR8. Maybe he shouldn't have been in the right lane just like the last 150 overhead traffic signs were telling him. :hihi:

This rebel truckie you flash me, I'll flash you nosense is the stuff that sometimes escalates to involve a shotgun. And before you bang on about driving for a living, remember 99% of those other roads users are there for a living too.

[Blue Oval Mopar Man]

Thats fine and dandy red_el_xr8 if you lights are on and aimed right! Sweet ! But be assured if your coming my way and your lights are irritating me , you'll get the same back and you wont like it one bit ! About 800 watts worth of irritating !

Trust me , Im a gynocologist! :the_finge

[the_scotsman]

Just a side note...since 1989 Canada has made it compulsory to have headlights lights on during the day at all times. All new cars come with lights that are on all the time.
It may soon be the same in all EU countries.
I dont have a problem passing cars with foggies on, daytime or night time....if they are blinding you that much, you are eating too many carrots!

[xdc351]

I agree with Red.

Tonight I drove down a stack of dimly lit back roads and made the comment to my missus that the low beams and indeed the high beams did not show the sides of the road at all. I tuned on the fog lights and it was clear straight away that they do light up a massive amount more road either side of the vehicle. Not more than 2 minutes later a cat ran in front of the car. Now, I don't want to pre-empt what *could* have happened, but I'm absoloutly positive if the fog lights were not switched on I would not have seen that cat before it was too late and without getting into a debate about running over animals, I'd rather have the chance to brake than be forced with the chioce of running it over or swerving (because I NEVER swerve).

So i'm kind of undecided on this one. Yes, they do help with vision, but they way they improve the vision can, and is, blinding to other drivers. Talk about a catch 22.