Covid 19 -

[Citroënbender]

Not so much social media as media immediacy. Seeing things in close to real time, goads for reactions.

[hayseed]

https://www.theshovel.com.au/2020/09...cels-lockdown/

[Cav]

Yeah, I remember a lot of pollies resigning back in the day and I was going to quote them here as a response to Russell's post.

But as I searched for details none of them suffered.

They may have lost their ministry, but they didn't loose their job, probably only $20 grand a year - but then they were rewarded again later on - both Liberal and Labor.

And what about Barry O'Farrell, Premier of NSW?

He resigned for not disclosing the gift of a bottle of wine.

He ended up as High Commissioner to India.

They is all bastards!

[Mr_G6ET]

Thats a funny site 'The Shovel'

another..

https://www.theshovel.com.au/2020/09...-in-melbourne/

[FPV8U]

https://youtu.be/V8Ks9fUh2k8

Another excellent video from Dr Campbell on a recently released small scale control study from Spain on the effectiveness of Vitamin D in treating Covid-19 in combination with standard of care in Spain (Similar to India)

Impressive results.

[cheap]

Originally Posted by FPV8U

https://youtu.be/V8Ks9fUh2k8

Another excellent video from Dr Campbell on a recently released small scale control study from Spain on the effectiveness of Vitamin D in treating Covid-19 in combination with standard of care in Spain (Similar to India)

Impressive results.

Just don't tell the pro-vax people!

More and more countries are containing C19 with readily available treatments which are basically free - Big-Pharma, WHO, Fauci and Gates will be panic mode.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by cheap

Just don't tell the pro-vax people!

More and more countries are containing C19 with readily available treatments which are basically free - Big-Pharma, WHO, Fauci and Gates will be panic mode.

Vitamin D was mentioned as something that could help very early on. Does it only help with people who are deficient? Does someone who already obtains sufficient vitamin D gain any benefit from taking more? Deficiencies in a lot of vitamins or minerals makes you more susceptible to infections, so is this any different? Clinical trials needed.

Don't go overboard though. There is such a thing as vitamin D toxicity. Also its not a cure nor a vaccine. Its one thing to ensure your body is functioning properly to best fight infections and diseases. Its another thing to generate antibodies.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

FFS... The sheer utter hatred and contempt that republican supporters have for democrat supporters, and vice versa is unparalleled!

Ever had a night out on the turps with remainers vs leavers They are just as bad.

Originally Posted by Charliewool

Is THIS where Australia’s future lies?
“A country divided, is a country defeated”
What happened to the great Aussie spirit of working together?
Sad, Sad bloody times Eh?

Not sure when you left, but your observation is not far off. After returning from living and working overseas in 2013, I noticed some interesting changes. 3 things struck me the most. 1. We complain a hell of a lot more than we used to. 2. There is less trust. Not just of government but also of each other. This surprised me the most. 3. Our media reporting is very substandard. In that I mean its very politically biased. Gone are the days of just presenting the facts and/or events, and letting the reader / viewer / listener think and decide. We are polarised. I think 3 contributes a great deal to 1 and 2.

Work together? I've said it before, people follow their leaders. What ever happened to "we are all Victorians?". Dan maintains he has a good "working" relationship with the PM, but looks to me he is just giving journalists one less ammo to fire. National cabinet started well, but seems to be less effective as each week goes by.

When was the last time you heard two "leaders" with opposing views sit down and have a sensible public debate of anything important? Watched Question Time in parliament lately? Why do they even call it question time? Nothing gets answered, instead they just shout, attack and mock each other until time runs out. Same thing on social media. Monkeys see, monkeys do.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by russellw

You remind me of the Energiser Bunny. Both polls for Brexit and Clinton were close and inconsistent in the days leading up to those events as was the Scottish referendum if you want to drag in something else totally unrelated.

I've seen 3 polls in the last two days, covering more than 150k respondents across a broad socio-economic spectrum as you'd expect from responsible polling and even those that normally show an anti-Government bias are still on the plus side of the ledger. About the only one I have seen that is even close is the News.com.au poll which has all of 7,375 respondents and is 53/47 in favour.

Real close - Hillary Clinton only had a '90% chance of winning' according to Reuters:

Clinton has 90 percent chance of winning: Reuters/Ipsos States of the Nation

NEW YORK (Reuters) - With hours to go before Americans vote, Democrat Hillary Clinton has about a 90 percent chance of defeating Republican Donald Trump in the race for the White House, according to the final Reuters/Ipsos States of the Nation project.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1322J1

Or the New York Times with their paltry 85% chance of Hillary Clinton winning:

Hillary Clinton has an 85% chance to win.

The Upshot’s elections model suggests that Hillary Clinton is favored to win the presidency, based on the latest state and national polls. A victory by Mr. Trump remains possible: Mrs. Clinton’s chance of losing is about the same as the probability that an N.F.L. kicker misses a 37-yard field goal.

For months, we’ve been updating our estimates with each new poll. Today, it’s Election Day, what we’ve all been waiting for, and there will be no more updates. You can chart different paths to victory below. Here’s how our estimates have changed over time:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...-forecast.html

Oh and talking about polls on Victoria's support for the lockdown - here is The Age's poll on Twitter they started yesterday that they've conveniently since deleted:

[CoupeKing]

Summer. Watch the old-timers drop like flies wearing a mask.

[FPV8U]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Vitamin D was mentioned as something that could help very early on. Does it only help with people who are deficient? Does someone who already obtains sufficient vitamin D gain any benefit from taking more? Deficiencies in a lot of vitamins or minerals makes you more susceptible to infections, so is this any different? Clinical trials needed.

Don't go overboard though. There is such a thing as vitamin D toxicity. Also its not a cure nor a vaccine. Its one thing to ensure your body is functioning properly to best fight infections and diseases. Its another thing to generate antibodies.

I’ve been taking 4,000IU a day since around April this year along with a vitamin C supplement, I can’t remember exactly which episode but he covers blood levels to target for what appears to be benefit, you would then need to get your blood levels checked and re assess.

While clinical trials would help provide definitive answers, much like other treatments that have been discussed at length, there’s literally no downside here to the general population being proactive, especially those most vulnerable in the community.

[Citroënbender]

The ABC has undertaken a mid-pandemic reinvention of their news front page; as always less is more - less “content at a glance” and more trying to second-guess your news reading interests.

You certainly feel it’s a format that could be more easily manipulated to “feel” comprehensive whilst cynically filtering. They were stupid enough to invite viewer commentary on it’s form…

[PG2]

Originally Posted by CoupeKing

Summer. Watch the old-timers drop like flies wearing a mask.

Do you think that sort of **** is funny?

On that note, thread closed again. If none of you want start posting something reasonable in here I'll keep closing the thread and Russ can keep coming along the next morning deleting all of your diatribe.

[russellw]

I will reopen it for now but let me make two things crystal clear.

Statements of an overtly political nature will be removed and repeat offenders will lose access to this sub-forum.

Statements that I consider to be trolling will meet the same fate.

[russellw]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Real close - Hillary Clinton only had a '90% chance of winning' according to Reuters:

Cherry pick all you want. From the Economist just prior to the election:

According to the averages compiled by Real Clear Politics, Hillary Clinton led Donald Trump by six percentage points in late June, trailed him by one a month later, was up by eight in mid-August, was nearly tied in late September, gained a fresh seven-point advantage in mid-October and saw it dwindle to two by last week. But at the end of this whiplash-inducing political roller coaster, the national polls have come into alignment and settled right around their long-term averages.

[Charliewool]

Below is the latest advice from our esteemed Costa Rica government.. (I translated it from Spanish, so apologies if some terminology is a bit iffy!)


◉ Due to the potential collapse that could affect the Health System, we, the health professionals, have prepared this message for the population, in case you do not want to risk going to a hospital immediately;
__________
◉ Symptoms appear from the third day after infection (virus symptoms).

➙ 1st phase;
◉ Body pain
◉ Eye pain
◉ Headache
◉ Vomiting
◉ Diarrhea
Runny nose or nasal congestion
◉ Decay
◉ Burning eyes
◉ Burning when urinating
◉ Feeling feverish
◉ Scratched throat (sore throat)
➙ It is very important to count the days of symptoms: 1st, 2nd, 3rd.
◉ It is necessary to act before the fever appears.
◉ Attention, it is very important to drink plenty of fluids, especially purified water. Drink plenty of water to keep your throat dry and to help clear your lungs.
__________
➙ 2nd phase; (from 4th to 8th day) inflammatory.

◉ Loss of taste and / or smell
◉ Tiredness with minimal efforts
◉ Chest pain (rib cage)
◉ Tightness in the chest
◉ Pain in the lower back (in the region of the kidneys)
__________
➙ The virus attacks nerve endings;
◉ The difference between tiredness and shortness of breath:
• _Shortness of air, is when the person is sitting - without making any effort - and is short of breath;
• Tiredness, is when the person moves to do something simple and feels tired.
__________
➙ A lot of hydration and vitamin C are needed.
__________
Cov Covid-19 binds oxygen, therefore the quality of the blood is poor, with less oxygen.
__________
➙ 3rd phase - healing;
◉ On day 9, the healing phase enters, which can last until day 14 (convalescence).
◉ Don't delay treatment, the sooner the better!
__________
➙ Good luck everyone!
It is better that we keep these recommendations, prevention is never too much!

• Sit in the sun for 15 to 20 minutes
• Rest and sleep for at least 7 to 8 hours.
• Drink 1 and a half liters of water a day
• All foods should be hot (not cold).
➙ Keep in mind that the pH of the coronavirus ranges from 5.5 to 8.5.
So all we have to do to eliminate the virus is eat more alkaline foods, above the acid level of the virus.
Such as;
◉ Bananas, Green Lemon → 9.9 pH
◉ Yellow lemon → 8.2 pH
◉ Avocado (Avocado) - 15.6 pH
◉ Garlic - 13.2 pH
◉ Mango - pH 8.7
◉ Tangerine - 8.5 pH
◉ Pineapple (Pineapple) - 12.7 pH
◉ Watercress - 22.7 pH
◉ Oranges - 9.2 pH
__________
➙ How do you know you have Covid-19 ?!
◉ Itchy throat
◉ Dry throat
◉ Dry cough
◉ High temperature
◉ Difficulty breathing
◉ Loss of smell and taste
__________

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by FPV8U

I’ve been taking 4,000IU a day since around April this year along with a vitamin C supplement, I can’t remember exactly which episode but he covers blood levels to target for what appears to be benefit, you would then need to get your blood levels checked and re assess.

While clinical trials would help provide definitive answers, much like other treatments that have been discussed at length, there’s literally no downside here to the general population being proactive, especially those most vulnerable in the community.

Yep, plenty research coming out about the benefits of both Vitamins. I take a heap more than that but everyone must DYOR and I have blood tests done to confirm the levels are safe.

Interestingly enough stats from Dr Sutton say 40% of the population has a co-morbidity. That's an indictment on the health system in general and one could argue the governments idea of health is not in fact health but sickness.

I've not heard any suggestions from the government to improve ones health and immune system during this outbreak.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

Below is the latest advice from our esteemed Costa Rica government.. (I translated it from Spanish, so apologies if some terminology is a bit iffy!)


◉ Due to the potential collapse that could affect the Health System, we, the health professionals, have prepared this message for the population, in case you do not want to risk going to a hospital immediately;
__________
◉ Symptoms appear from the third day after infection (virus symptoms).

➙ 1st phase;
◉ Body pain
◉ Eye pain
◉ Headache
◉ Vomiting
◉ Diarrhea
Runny nose or nasal congestion
◉ Decay
◉ Burning eyes
◉ Burning when urinating
◉ Feeling feverish
◉ Scratched throat (sore throat)
➙ It is very important to count the days of symptoms: 1st, 2nd, 3rd.
◉ It is necessary to act before the fever appears.
◉ Attention, it is very important to drink plenty of fluids, especially purified water. Drink plenty of water to keep your throat dry and to help clear your lungs.
__________
➙ 2nd phase; (from 4th to 8th day) inflammatory.

◉ Loss of taste and / or smell
◉ Tiredness with minimal efforts
◉ Chest pain (rib cage)
◉ Tightness in the chest
◉ Pain in the lower back (in the region of the kidneys)
__________
➙ The virus attacks nerve endings;
◉ The difference between tiredness and shortness of breath:
• _Shortness of air, is when the person is sitting - without making any effort - and is short of breath;
• Tiredness, is when the person moves to do something simple and feels tired.
__________
➙ A lot of hydration and vitamin C are needed.
__________
Cov Covid-19 binds oxygen, therefore the quality of the blood is poor, with less oxygen.
__________
➙ 3rd phase - healing;
◉ On day 9, the healing phase enters, which can last until day 14 (convalescence).
◉ Don't delay treatment, the sooner the better!
__________
➙ Good luck everyone!
It is better that we keep these recommendations, prevention is never too much!

• Sit in the sun for 15 to 20 minutes
• Rest and sleep for at least 7 to 8 hours.
• Drink 1 and a half liters of water a day
• All foods should be hot (not cold).
➙ Keep in mind that the pH of the coronavirus ranges from 5.5 to 8.5.
So all we have to do to eliminate the virus is eat more alkaline foods, above the acid level of the virus.
Such as;
◉ Bananas, Green Lemon → 9.9 pH
◉ Yellow lemon → 8.2 pH
◉ Avocado (Avocado) - 15.6 pH
◉ Garlic - 13.2 pH
◉ Mango - pH 8.7
◉ Tangerine - 8.5 pH
◉ Pineapple (Pineapple) - 12.7 pH
◉ Watercress - 22.7 pH
◉ Oranges - 9.2 pH
__________
➙ How do you know you have Covid-19 ?!
◉ Itchy throat
◉ Dry throat
◉ Dry cough
◉ High temperature
◉ Difficulty breathing
◉ Loss of smell and taste
__________

It's great that they've laid out practical suggestions in an easy to understand way - sure it's not going to cure it but maybe give you a better chance of shaking it and coming out the other end.

What was the advice from our state and federal government? Aside from keeping us under house arrest.

[russellw]

52 new cases for Australia and 8 deaths sees the CMR rise to 2.92% while active drop to 2,880. NSW recorded 9 cases; Queensland & WA 1 each with the balance in Victoria. The Victorian 14 day moving average is now 90.3.

6 new cases and zero deaths for NZ so CMR is 1.347% and active cases rise to 123.

The UK had 2,460 new cases yesterday and as we know they are now not counting their mortalities by the WHO guidelines we are going to ignore those figures.

Just over 24k new cases in the USA yesterday and 286 deaths sees CMR drop to 2.984% and active cases drop to 39.1% with the raw numbers dropping again. Note that the USA is actually minus one day due to time differences.

Other notable points:
Global deaths pass 900k, with the last 50k taking 9 days;
India completes 50M tests;
Argentina passes 500k cases;
Asia records a new daily high of 118.301 for new cases;

Israel (3,590), Spain (8,964) and Argentina (12,027) all recorded new daily highs; those in blue for the second consecutive day and those in red for a third or more consecutive day.

[Charliewool]

Originally Posted by Romulus

Yep, plenty research coming out about the benefits of both Vitamins. I take a heap more than that but everyone must DYOR and I have blood tests done to confirm the levels are safe.

Interestingly enough stats from Dr Sutton say 40% of the population has a co-morbidity. That's an indictment on the health system in general and one could argue the governments idea of health is not in fact health but sickness.

I've not heard any suggestions from the government to improve ones health and immune system during this outbreak.

True that!!!
It’s mask mask mask, social distancing, etc... (And fines, fines, fines)
With zero advice on how to lower your own Personal risk.. diet wise, vitamin wise, sunlight wise....
I have no idea about their pH bit, or the evidence supporting same?
But a diet supplement of bananas, pineapple, avocado and garlic couldn’t hurt anyone?

[Citroënbender]

Exactly.

Banana smoothies with a dash of ginger syrup before 5PM and a shot of vodka thereafter.
Pineapple on a pizza.
Garlic and avocado = nachos.

Costa Rica, here I come!

[DaveD]

Pineapple on a pizza is just plain wrong!

[PhilT2]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

True that!!!
It’s mask mask mask, social distancing, etc... (And fines, fines, fines)
With zero advice on how to lower your own Personal risk.. diet wise, vitamin wise, sunlight wise....
I have no idea about their pH bit, or the evidence supporting same?
But a diet supplement of bananas, pineapple, avocado and garlic couldn’t hurt anyone?

Govt has been telling people to do things like stop smoking, drink less and lose some weight for years. They know that a certain percentage of the population can't or won't take their advice and there are others that don't need to be told but can work these things out for themselves.
The first group need fines to get their attention.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by prydey

Enlighten everyone then why the actions of those not complying is the fault of somebody else?

Perhaps Dan Andrews should've welded people's doors shut??

Because there needs to be security/systems in place to keep people in quarantine from spreading it to others. Not rejecting the best option (Andrews didn't like the optics of ADF troops on the streets - FACT), not choosing the worst option where untrained security guards allowed infected people to leave quarantine to go to the supermarket/coffee shop- FACT.

The whole idea of quarantine is to keep people isolated from the outside world, so they don't spread it. There is no need to weld the doors shut if they actually treated quarantine like it's supposed to be

If the government put in place the correct security/systems the second wave wouldn't have happened. Nearly every case now can be traced back to this quarantine debacle. What part of that don't you get?

The idiots didn't comply and spread it around BECAUSE THEY WERE ALLOWED TO.

Originally Posted by russellw

So here is some logic for you.

We still seem unable to separate the individual from the body corporate.

The public service (and indeed most Government departments) make a myriad of bad decisions or mistakes every day. Are these then deemed to be the 'fault' of Daniel Andrews?

We've previously discussed the notion of ministerial responsibility that dictated that a minister would sacrifice themselves if their department made a monumental enough stuff-up. It, of course, went out of favour sometime in the 70's either because (1) it was a seriously outdated notion to begin with or (2) Government just got too big for it to be feasible or (3) the almost un-sackable public servants were actually the ones pulling the levers that led to the stuff-ups.

If it were still in fashion, then the Minister for Jobs Precinct and Regions is the responsible minister anyway and not the executive branch of Government.

Let me diverge for a moment. At a stretch it could be argued that because the executive branch of Government (cabinet) selects the ministerial positions it should bear some responsibility for those who turn out to be bad choices and we do sometimes see that in the corporate world (albeit rarely) when a Board has chosen a CEO who turns out to be a dud and someone falls on their sword. I'm inclined, however, to think that it differs because the actual power in any ministerial portfolio actually rests with the permanent Departmental heads which is not the case in the corporate world.

However, it isn't in fashion any more than publicly blaming public servants is and for evidence let me point to the report from the Ruby Princess bungle which created a fair portion of the first wave in this country. While the report acknowledged that mistakes had been made at the 'lever-pulling' level, it also excused them on the basis that the public servants were doing their best. Personally; looking at the systemic failures in that process, I very much doubt that their best was anywhere near what we have a right to expect but they escape culpability anyway.

Likewise, that report acknowledged that the mistakes were too far removed from the executive branch of Government (= the politicians) that it laid no blame on them either.

You can argue until you are blue in the face as to whether that is morally correct but the fact remains that is how it is these days.

My question to you then is when did we wholeheartedly adopt the American 'populist' view of politics?



If I could be bothered, I'd quote some of your posts in this thread that would qualify from a logical stand-point but it would be an exercise in futility.

So let me give you an example (a real one) from the Corporate world where it is still common for titular heads (read CEO's) to get the shove when things go pear shaped. The only real differences in that environment are that (1) the 'voters' (shareholders) don't have to wait for an election to express their views; (2) Boards are often quick to avoid a share price melt-down and (3) the senior executives aren't a protected species like public servants.

The Banking Royal Commission cost 3 of the 4 CEO's at the big banks their job along with more than 200 senior executives but only one single Boards member (the NAB Chairman) actually resigned over the report.

Given that the Board is the equivalent of the executive branch of Government and the Chairman the equivalent to a Premier, only one of them (Ken Henry from NAB) was sufficiently embarrassed by the findings to resign although (1) he was probably offered the opportunity to resign rather than be sacked and (2) he got singled out for a savage caning in the report over his conduct during the RC and his position would have been untenable anyway.

In conclusion. If you don't like what the Andrews Government has done you have three options:

1. Vote against them at the next election;
2. Hope the current hotel quarantine inquiry slams him hard enough that he loses the support of his party; or
3. Suck it up.

I'm sure it won't come as a surprise when I say I've never voted Labour in 44 years of voting but every time I see negative Nancy (O'Brien) on the TV, I want to throw something heavy at it and I may well change the voting habits of a lifetime.

I've never voted Liberal. Which makes Dans screw ups even harder to take.

He won't get voted out though. The state Libs are an absolute basketcase and are no alternative. They don't have a hope in hell.

[russellw]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

What was the advice from our state and federal government? Aside from keeping us under house arrest.

There have been plenty of advice provided both via the Vic Emergency App and on the DHHS web site as well as in the various news broadcasts and TV ads.

Originally Posted by Romulus

Interestingly enough stats from Dr Sutton say 40% of the population has a co-morbidity. That's an indictment on the health system in general and one could argue the governments idea of health is not in fact health but sickness.

Way back in this thread I posted the percentages of people that had one of the 5 major co-morbidities (hypertension, cardiovascular disease, chronic respiratory disease, diabetes and cancer) and it was probably a little higher than the 40% quoted.

It's not got a whole lot to do with the health system in general but rather the lifestyles we lead and the fact that most of those ailments are readily managed by medication and are generally not immediately life threatening in themselves with the exception of (some) cancers of course.

Hypertension (apart from hereditary types) is linked to poor exercise, diets high in salt and saturated fat as well as diabetes.

Type 2 diabetes (the more common kind) is also linked to diet.

CVD is linked to both diabetes and hypertension as well as diet, smoking and physical condition (obesity being a major cause).

COPD is linked to environmental factors and smoking.

Cancer is the great unknown in terms of causal factors that may or may not be in our control.

I'm also not absolutely sure that all the advice provided by the CR Government has sound basis in scientific facts but at least there isn't anything in it to worsen the situation.

[Charliewool]

Originally Posted by PhilT2

Govt has been telling people to do things like stop smoking, drink less and lose some weight for years. They know that a certain percentage of the population can't or won't take their advice and there are others that don't need to be told but can work these things out for themselves.
The first group need fines to get their attention.

Of course!!!.... Go to the Docs for anything and The 1st questions are “drinking & smoking, plus ya fat”

However.... If some “official“ advice on lowering your covid risk mentioned simple stuff like vitamin C, D, pineapples, bananas, garlic etc etc.... I’m positive people would give it a crack!
(And a boost to our produce markets)

[Tassie f100]

Originally Posted by DaveD

Pineapple on a pizza is just plain wrong!

You may be right,but I am also sure that whatever you put on a pizza is also wrong

[FPV8U]

Originally Posted by PhilT2

Govt has been telling people to do things like stop smoking, drink less and lose some weight for years. They know that a certain percentage of the population can't or won't take their advice and there are others that don't need to be told but can work these things out for themselves.
The first group need fines to get their attention.

What better time to re-educate the masses?

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

Of course!!!.... Go to the Docs for anything and The 1st questions are “drinking & smoking, plus ya fat”

However.... If some “official“ advice on lowering your covid risk mentioned simple stuff like vitamin C, D, pineapples, bananas, garlic etc etc.... I’m positive people would give it a crack!
(And a boost to our produce markets)

And when it proves that none of those makes to much of a difference people will complain that the Gov gives false information and they cant be trusted...cant win.

If you guys want to pop Vit C then knock your socks off.

[Charliewool]

https://www.dhhs.vic.gov.au/coronavi...bay-wastewater

So why do they stick a huge swab up your nose, instead of a urine test?