Covid 19 -

[Mr_G6ET]

Originally Posted by prydey

Victoria

What's wrong with these people, are they qualified or simply thrust into the abyss like the security guard 'dumb dumb' saga ? If they are qualified and experienced, retrain and penalise or just sack'em

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by prydey

https://www.9news.com.au/national/co...9-ce441a26850a

Victoria

You can't make this stuff up

Yes you can...

Sutton was emailed about use of private security in hotel quarantine
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-2...aring/12788900


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Jack91]

So whats the go with masks?
The scarfy /fishing thing i had since the start got outlawed a couple of weeks ago. It was tight on my face and very effective, didnt hurt ears, reusable and unloseable.

However, thanks to some idiot in charge, im rocking the wuhan special that is so loose and poor fitting its a joke.

Is this 'covidnormal'?

What is 'covidnormal'?
What is 'covidsafe'?

Come up with all these fancy names, doesnt matter, there will still be wave 3,4,5,6.....

[Jack91]

Also, as much as i want someone to blame for hotel quarantine screwup, its not totally 100% their fault.
Its like the salesman getting a speeding ticket after he sold you a mustang.
However if a public stoning occurs to said person, im in.
Will be nice to see government accountability for once

[russellw]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

How's the global daily new cases figure trending, Russ? Have we started to see an easing in those figures yet?

Since the peak on the 16th of 413k, it has been 387k, 340k and 330k the 3 days since. Putting that in perspective, they are all well above the 90th percentile of 303k and the 387k on the 17th is the 3rd highest daily number so far. The weekend numbers tend to be a bit flattering looking at the graph but Monday was lower than expected.

Originally Posted by ford71V8

First time in a while that Russels summary at the bottom of his posts does not include a bunch of red and blue country names.

Will be interesting to see what the numbers for Tuesday bring.

Georgia (the country, not the State) makes an interesting study. They went through all of the early pandemic from March until June averaging only 8 cases per day with a peak of 42 in mid April. From then until mid July that average dropped to 3 cases per day with a peak of 9 and you'd have said they pretty much had it under control.

Cases started to climb from about 18th July with an average of 12/day through to the end of July and then dropped to 10/day through August before climbing to 39/day in early September and since then it has rocketed to be 225/day for the balance of September and 656/day thus far in October, with their highest figure of 1,192 two days ago and their second highest yesterday.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by tweeked

So you are telling me the health industry, with all of these really smart heath professionals with all of their contacts, their education, their degrees etc, could not "out purchase" all of the general population jumping on EBAY or queuing at Aldi........

Really?

Pretty sure that they get their products from somewhere else. A smart government , with smart decisions from a clever Chief Health Officer would requisition all of the surgical quality masks available.

They could then just say to the public cover your face with a scarf / bandana or purchase non surgical face coverings. Every garment manufacturer paid to make non surgical masks. This is not a new idea, it is what you do in wartime - and we are, just a different enemy. You just say "get over it"

No - they have to be held to account, learn from their mistakes and not screw it up again next time, because it looks like the 2nd winter is worse with this thing.

it is not the 'health professionals' who order stock, it is some person in a back room 'purchasing' role that does that, all controlled by the 'budget' put out by someone further up the tree, probably an accountant, not a 'health professional'

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by prydey

https://www.9news.com.au/national/co...9-ce441a26850a

Victoria

You can't make this stuff up

the day I believe 'main stream media' (MSM) is the day I think SkyNews is more left than the ABC, is the day I believe Donald Trump is a sane individual, is the day I believe Elvis is alive and working in a 7/11. Remember, this is the same channel that brings you ACA and 60 Minutes, the pillars of 'a current affair' reporting

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

Yes you can...

Sutton was emailed about use of private security in hotel quarantine
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-2...aring/12788900


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

BUT, did he make the decision to use security guards - I am guessing not, so a witch hunt for no particular reason

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

it is not the 'health professionals' who order stock, it is some person in a back room 'purchasing' role that does that, all controlled by the 'budget' put out by someone further up the tree, probably an accountant, not a 'health professional'

No obviously they don’t put the actual order in, but all senior roles are filled by doctors or professors of medicine. They give direction and are accountable as to what is purchased , that is how any organisation works.

[Charliewool]

Originally Posted by russellw

Since the peak on the 16th of 413k, it has been 387k, 340k and 330k the 3 days since. Putting that in perspective, they are all well above the 90th percentile of 303k and the 387k on the 17th is the 3rd highest daily number so far. The weekend numbers tend to be a bit flattering looking at the graph but Monday was lower than expected.



Will be interesting to see what the numbers for Tuesday bring.

Georgia (the country, not the State) makes an interesting study. They went through all of the early pandemic from March until June averaging only 8 cases per day with a peak of 42 in mid April. From then until mid July that average dropped to 3 cases per day with a peak of 9 and you'd have said they pretty much had it under control.

Cases started to climb from about 18th July with an average of 12/day through to the end of July and then dropped to 10/day through August before climbing to 39/day in early September and since then it has rocketed to be 225/day for the balance of September and 656/day thus far in October, with their highest figure of 1,192 two days ago and their second highest yesterday.

We (Costa Rica) was also slow out of the blocks... But since September, numbers risen dramatically.
Yesterday (Tuesday) daily new cases were 847... And the first day since September that it was under 1000.
Also averaging 15.7 deaths per day since September (total deaths are 1222)
Or 19 deaths per 100,000...
Yet the entire country has re-opened.... Flights from all States in the US, bars, restaurants, casinos, sports, beaches are all open now!
They are definitely putting the economy ahead of Covid risk (any wonder with un-employment at 30 odd % and high tourist season beginning in December)

[PhilT2]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

it is not the 'health professionals' who order stock, it is some person in a back room 'purchasing' role that does that, all controlled by the 'budget' put out by someone further up the tree, probably an accountant, not a 'health professional'

I don't think it matters who orders stock if the factory in china that manufacturers it has shut down due to the virus. It's hard to "requisition" something that doesn't exist. Then, when production starts up again priority will go to the biggest customers and, in a worldwide market, Australia is a small player.
This is why we are now talking about bringing manufacturing back to Aus. But I don't think people are ready for the price rises that will result.

[Polyal]

Tourist thing will be interesting.

If you were travelling at the moment would you go to a country/area you know has high numbers? Depends on your motivation perhaps. I know I wouldnt and we have canned our OS trip for next year to the EU even if flights re-open.

#herdby2021

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

BUT, did he make the decision to use security guards - I am guessing not, so a witch hunt for no particular reason

Smoke leads back to gun eventually. It’s getting there.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by tweeked

No obviously they don’t put the actual order in, but all senior roles are filled by doctors or professors of medicine. They give direction and are accountable as to what is purchased , that is how any organisation works.

no, they aren't, these sorts of roles sit with others - sorry you are wrong. Although I will concede that in some cases these roles will be filled by health professionals, but they also fill these roles with other more qualified 'professionals'

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

Smoke leads back to gun eventually. It’s getting there.

Do you actually know that the email contains, or are you just speculating and listening to too much Paul Murray, most of what the email contains is about the hierarchy of control, not about decisions made to put security guards


Annnnnd if you remember, very early on one of the public servants declared that they had kept Sutton out of the loop as 'he (Sutton) was too busy doing other things' - fact check please

Speaking of fact checking, that idiot Paul Murray declared last night on SkyNews that there had been 500 Victorian commit suicide as a result of the lock down, this is absolute bull****, it has been refuted before by the likes of Beyond Blue, Black Dog etc, well here is a link to fact check and guess what??? Paul Murray is a liar. The numbers are the same as last year, showing NO increase
https://factcheck.afp.com/false-face...ng-coronavirus

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

Do you actually know that the email contains, or are you just speculating and listening to too much Paul Murray, most of what the email contains is about the hierarchy of control, not about decisions made to put security guards


Annnnnd if you remember, very early on one of the public servants declared that they had kept Sutton out of the loop as 'he (Sutton) was too busy doing other things' - fact check please

Speaking of fact checking, that idiot Paul Murray declared last night on SkyNews that there had been 500 Victorian commit suicide as a result of the lock down, this is absolute bull****, it has been refuted before by the likes of Beyond Blue, Black Dog etc, well here is a link to fact check and guess what??? Paul Murray is a liar
https://factcheck.afp.com/false-face...ng-coronavirus

Take a chill pill. You’re going to give yourself an aneurysm.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by PhilT2

I don't think it matters who orders stock if the factory in china that manufacturers it has shut down due to the virus. It's hard to "requisition" something that doesn't exist. Then, when production starts up again priority will go to the biggest customers and, in a worldwide market, Australia is a small player.
This is why we are now talking about bringing manufacturing back to Aus. But I don't think people are ready for the price rises that will result.

ummm, not quite true, the face masks you see in Chemist Warehouse etc are made in China, but I think you will find that most of the ones in health care are made in Shepparton Victoria, they are running 24/7 to keep up with demand, bought in new machines, they are producing 57 million masks by the end of 2020 under contract to the Federal Government. How do I know? I have been there and know people in senior roles who work there
https://www.farmonline.com.au/story/...-masks-a-week/

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

Take a chill pill. You’re going to give yourself an aneurysm.

no, just stating facts, something that some people who are posting are not doing

You can always tell when facts start to hurt people, they resort to personal attacks, your post is case in point

Originally Posted by tweeked

No obviously they don’t put the actual order in, but all senior roles are filled by doctors or professors of medicine. They give direction and are accountable as to what is purchased , that is how any organisation works.

Australia was drained of masks for China

A Chinese government-backed property giant has secretly raided in bulk Australia's supplies of masks, hand sanitiser, antibacterial wipes and essential medical supplies and shipped them back to China.
The Greenland Group, which manages high-end real estate projects in Sydney and Melbourne, proactively drained Australian supplies of anti-coronavirus equipment, The Sydney Morning Herald reported.
https://www.dailyexaminer.com.au/new...china/3981857/

Billions of face masks sent to China during Australian bushfire crisis

One January 25 message from the Poly headquarters in Sydney calls on the “team” to find and purchase masks from their local chemists for urgent dispatch to China. Responses came quickly as staff scoured stores and chemists from Penrith to Parramatta, Wentworthvillle, Mona Vale, Epping, Rhodes, regional Wollongong, and Melbourne.
On February 7, the day Poly appears to have air-freighted a shipment of medical supplies to China, the World Health Organisation expressed concern about the global shortage of Personal Protective Equipment (PPE). The previous week the president of the Royal Australian College of GPs, Dr Harry Nespolon, had said doctors were worried about the lack of availability of masks.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/bill...02-p54gjh.html

https://9now.nine.com.au/60-minutes/...f-1ca1069b9473

[PhilT2]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

ummm, not quite true, the face masks you see in Chemist Warehouse etc are made in China, but I think you will find that most of the ones in health care are made in Shepparton Victoria, they are running 24/7 to keep up with demand, bought in new machines, they are producing 57 million masks by the end of 2020 under contract to the Federal Government. How do I know? I have been there and know people in senior roles who work there
https://www.farmonline.com.au/story/...-masks-a-week/

So were they supplying all of Aust before the virus hit?

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

no, just stating facts, something that some people who are posting are not doing

You can always tell when facts start to hurt people, they resort to personal attacks, your post is case in point

I'm not your mother, but if you'd bothered to click on the link in my post the email was included in the article.

[T3rminator]

I really don't understand the obsession with the "who made the security guard hotel quarantine decision" at this moment in time. The key issue for me is, did the government officials conduct adequate due diligence in the timeframe given. If yes, tick. If no, then start your witch hunt. Remember, there is currently a criminal investigation into the conduct of the security company. The "attack" on Victoria has gone from a daily obsession to an hourly obsession. They tried it with QLD for a while, didn't really seem to work, and now they are trying it on WA. Can't see Mr 91% faltering.

On the issue of suicides, we are being given a lot of mixed messages. Official stats show there hasn't been a marked increase in numbers compared to pre-covid. Actually, I heard one "expert" say its less than expected because people are stuck at home and being forced to re-connect. But I'm sure some business owners would be really feeling it.

I see Mr Pakula has, this morning, reversed the decision to allow 500 connections to attend the Cox plate. Dumb decision initially, but even dumber to back flip. Its not a popularity contest. Vic has been pretty much left out on its own the last few months, we need to do what is right for us, everyone else can GTFO....for the time being

PS. Spent most of the day outdoors yesterday. Was awesome. Took the dog to the beach for a swim. Gents, heads up, lots of what appears to be single women out and about, and eager to socialise.....at a distance of course.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

Smoke leads back to gun eventually. It’s getting there.

He already admitted a few days ago at the presser, that he receives hundreds, sometimes thousands of emails a day in his inbox. He skim reads them, and it may not have registered at the time. It registered when it was out in the media. This is not uncommon in the workplace, amplified 1000 times during a pandemic response. I have had my head slapped many times by C levels for sending emails on important matters, usually buried in contents of other less important stuff, and not doing it face to face or via a phone call. So here is a tip for anyone that wants to climb the greasy pole, if your boss ever makes a mistake and asks why you never warned them, NEVER say "but it was in the email I sent".

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

He already admitted a few days ago at the presser, that he receives hundreds, sometimes thousands of emails a day in his inbox. He skim reads them, and it may not have registered at the time. It registered when it was out in the media. This is not uncommon in the workplace, amplified 1000 times during a pandemic response. I have had my head slapped many times by C levels for sending emails on important matters, usually buried in contents of other less important stuff, and not doing it face to face or via a phone call. So here is a tip for anemone that wants to climb the greasy pole, if your boss ever makes a mistake and asks why you never warned them, NEVER say "but it was in the email I sent".

For sure - I'm the same. People who know me know that if it's important, then ring me. Don't send or cc me on an email and claim "job done", I won't wear that.

To clarify, I'm not anti-Victorian, I'm anti-incompetence and cover up. I'm a Victorian originally and all my family and elderly parents are there that I haven't seen for coming up to a year. And it could have been avoided.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by PhilT2

So were they supplying all of Aust before the virus hit?

they were making limited numbers for hospitals, they also make those pads that go under your butt when in a hospital bed and they make the disposable aprons

ScoMo & Co contracted them back in Feb/Mar to increase production to make 57m by the end of the year - surely you saw this on the MSM news, they drafted the Army in to assist in the early stages

They are a great company, they actually employed people who were laid off as a result of the virus to assist in production

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

I'm not your mother

no you're not, she is dead, she died in 1993 at the ripe old age of 66, but she always debated logically and factually

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

but if you'd bothered to click on the link in my post the email was included in the article.

and it states what? That Brett Sutton, without any doubt gave the direction to use security guards instead of Police - is that what you are telling me?????

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

For sure - I'm the same. People who know me know that if it's important, then ring me. Don't send or cc me on an email and claim "job done", I won't wear that.

People do that so there's a written record of management having been notified. Very helpful down the track when management decide they want to play dumb that they weren't aware of x/y/z and the poor chump who's about to get blamed for it can demonstrate that the boss was indeed notified.

Generally better to speak about it in person or over the phone and if the boss doesn't agree to it/approve it/whatever.. and you foresee the writing on the wall down the track because the boss has failed to do x/y/z... follow up with an email that says "as per our recent conversation about yadda yadda" with your recommended plan of action and the likely outcome if those actions aren't taken.

I'd hazard a guess that a lot of people would be happy to throw someone else under the bus to save themselves and there's no proof to be had from in-person conversations so protect your own ***!

Here's one distillery that rose to the occasion and switched from making rum to making sanitiser to meet demand when there was a shortage and they were left unable to sell it after cheaper imports finally arrived. They'd spent $100k on equipment and used rum that was about to be sold for considerably higher prices just to be able to support the community and it was for naught. Poor buggers, bet they don't attempt to help anyone out again.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-...ocket/12380766

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

I really don't understand the obsession with the "who made the security guard hotel quarantine decision" at this moment in time. The key issue for me is, did the government officials conduct adequate due diligence in the timeframe given. If yes, tick. If no, then start your witch hunt. Remember, there is currently a criminal investigation into the conduct of the security company. The "attack" on Victoria has gone from a daily obsession to an hourly obsession. They tried it with QLD for a while, didn't really seem to work, and now they are trying it on WA. Can't see Mr 91% faltering.

On the issue of suicides, we are being given a lot of mixed messages. Official stats show there hasn't been a marked increase in numbers compared to pre-covid. Actually, I heard one "expert" say its less than expected because people are stuck at home and being forced to re-connect. But I'm sure some business owners would be really feeling it.

I see Mr Pakula has, this morning, reversed the decision to allow 500 connections to attend the Cox plate. Dumb decision initially, but even dumber to back flip. Its not a popularity contest. Vic has been pretty much left out on its own the last few months, we need to do what is right for us, everyone else can GTFO....for the time being

PS. Spent most of the day outdoors yesterday. Was awesome. Took the dog to the beach for a swim. Gents, heads up, lots of what appears to be single women out and about, and eager to socialise.....at a distance of course.

They need to get to the root cause of what happened, a lot of lives were lost as a result of poor decision making.

I reckon the closest their going to get to the facts was when one of the Counsel's assisting said it was a result of 'creeping assumptions', I reckon she was spot on

Will D Andrews be sacked or resign as a result, obviously not, it should be noted who has gone though, then look there for a share of some of the blame (1 politician, I police chief and 1 public servant)

[T3rminator]

What's with the spoonville popping up everywhere? My dog thinks it's a good pee station.
Looks like Dandrews has some fans in the next generation.