Covid 19 -

[mostly_broncos]

They were writing everything down as Covid death early on, and they were testing post mortem .

Anyone who died"with" covid died of covid

The hospitals were compensated more for covid patients so they made sure to classify people that way

[mostly_broncos]

I should also say that the opposite is true as well. Deaths were also minimized to protect certain people

https://apnews.com/article/ap-top-ne...3703a00514647f

[russellw]

Data valid as at 23:59 GMT November 27th, 2020.

Note: As not all Australian States report at the same time, the data below is based on the previous full day reporting.

6 new cases for Australia and no deaths so the CMR drops to 3.254%. NSW recorded 4 cases, NT recorded 3 and ACT recorded 1.

7 new case and no deaths for NZ so CMR is 1.221% and active cases rise to 66.

The UK had a lower 14,739 cases yesterday. We know they are now not counting their mortalities by the WHO guidelines so we are going to ignore the CMR but even using their method they recorded 520 deaths.

Just under 146k new cases in the USA yesterday and 1,378 deaths sees CMR drop to 2.029% and active cases rise to 38.9% with the raw numbers rising and now over 5.1M. Note that the USA is actually minus one day due to time differences.

Other notable points:
Global deaths set a new daily high of 12,243 (25/11);
The USA completes 188M, India 137M, Germany 27M, Italy 21M, Turkey 18M, Canada 11M, Peru 5M, Romania 4M and Sweden 3M tests.

Finland (618) - 22% above the high yesterday;
Kenya (1,554);
Belarus (1,621);
Panama (1,755) on 26/11;
Palestine (1,936);
Lithuania (2,339);
Azerbaijan (3,712);
Croatia (4,080) - 12% above the previous high;
Georgia (4,780) - 18% above the previous high;
Indonesia (5,828)
Serbia (7,780);
Turkey (29,845) as they added asymptomatic cases with positive tests - we will continue to use the previous high of 7,381 for statistical purposes;
Iran (14,051);
Ukraine (16,218); and
Russia (27,543)

... all recorded new daily highs; those in blue for the second consecutive day and those in red for a third or more consecutive days.

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by mostly_broncos

The hospitals were compensated more for covid patients so they made sure to classify people that way

^^^^^Any Links to Verify This..^^^^^^

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by hayseed

^^^^^Any Links to Verify This..^^^^^^

I'm afraid its true, but $ numbers are no where near what some claim it to be for just a diagnosis. Ventilator care is ridiculous, 3 times more!.



https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...us/3000638001/

"Our ruling: True
We rate the claim that hospitals get paid more if patients are listed as COVID-19 and on ventilators as TRUE.

Hospitals and doctors do get paid more for Medicare patients diagnosed with COVID-19 or if it's considered presumed they have COVID-19 absent a laboratory-confirmed test, and three times more if the patients are placed on a ventilator to cover the cost of care and loss of business resulting from a shift in focus to treat COVID-19 cases.

This higher allocation of funds has been made possible under the Coronavirus Aid, Relief and Economic Security Act through a Medicare 20% add-on to its regular payment for COVID-19 patients, as verified by USA TODAY through the American Hospital Association Special Bulletin on the topic."

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by FTE217

Well what was your outcome ?
Positive ?
Being your in Sydney like me I'm curious.
I'm asking for the the 3 tests we have had I've been pretty impressed the speed of the results.
We've had the checks done in the mornings, one time got the results by 10pm that same night - Negative.
The other 2 times again done morning and got Negative results by midnight.
All via SMS.

It was negative. That was a given seeing as I didn't get any phone calls.

If you go to the doctor with a sniffle or a cough they automatically test you.

That's fine - but the total inefficiency of the system in place is a bloody joke.

Firstly, I identified myself as an essential worker (School teacher) as is my ex wife who we share looking after our daughter.

I asked for fast turn around if possible - it was requested by the doctor but it seemed to make no difference.

Then they go to the trouble of confirming your phone number, email address and other personal details at the testing facility. Again, you remind them that you need the results urgently as 2 people can't go to work as well as our daughter who is missing out on school.

They roll their eyes as in to say 'Here we go, another "I want the results yesterday" person. Lets not explain anything to them to put them in their place and just nod pretending to acknowledge their ranting'.

I get the SMS at a bit after 8pm that evening - 'go and see your doctor for the results'.

The following day I attend the medical center (Friday) and ask for the paperwork showing the results - I made a joke to the person that I assume they are negative seeing as I didn't get a call.

She gets all defensive - how do I know they are negative? Oh dear - you are one of those sort of people I think to myself.

She looks up her commuter and says "Tuesday afternoon is the earliest we can do".

I said excuse me? I need those results as I can't return to work, nor can my ex-wife, nor can my daughter return to school. I know you have the results, please give them to me.

She goes on - No, the policy is that the doctor must give you the results, he isn't in till Tuesday so you will need to wait till then. You could have got them directly from the testing facility if you wanted them so fast - he would have told you that, as would have the testing facility.

Ok... my patience was wearing thin. I explained that nothing of the sort was explained to me, and that I will not be leaving without the results. They are mine and I don't need to wait for a doctor to tell me they are negative!

She tells me how she can get in trouble if she gives me the results - I told her I don't care, they are my results and you have no reason to withhold them. And I'm certainly not waiting till Tuesday for them.

Sher Ums and Ahs for a while then hands me two pieces of paper... She again told me she could get in trouble. I told her if anyone tries to get you in trouble to give them my number and I'll deal with them.

What a bloody joke of a system.

[burnz]

I can't see this virus lasting that long, after all it was made in China..

[EgoFG]

Johns Hopkins University Newsletter Ran Study Saying COVID 'Relatively No Effect on Deaths' in U.S., Then Deleted It After Publication



https://web.archive.org/web/20201126...ue-to-covid-19






If I get time I will try and crunch the numbers myself. - Or someone else may be faster.

[Work Horse]

Originally Posted by EgoFG

Johns Hopkins University Newsletter Ran Study Saying COVID 'Relatively No Effect on Deaths' in U.S., Then Deleted It After Publication
https://web.archive.org/web/20201126...ue-to-covid-19

No they have not deleted the story, it is still avaliable from the same site in PDF.
https://www.jhunewsletter.com/articl...ue-to-covid-19

Originally Posted by EgoFG

If I get time I will try and crunch the numbers myself. - Or someone else may be faster.

It's all here mate knock yourself out.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/c...ess_deaths.htm

Johns Hopkins University Newsletter explained why they took it off their webpage;
"Editor’s Note: After The News-Letter published this article on Nov. 22, it was brought to our attention that our coverage of Genevieve Briand’s presentation “COVID-19 Deaths: A Look at U.S. Data” has been used to support dangerous inaccuracies that minimize the impact of the pandemic.

We decided on Nov. 26 to retract this article to stop the spread of misinformation, as we noted on social media. However, it is our responsibility as journalists to provide a historical record. We have chosen to take down the article from our website, but it is available here as a PDF.

Why are people still looking for conspiracy theories to explain what is obvious?

[Citroënbender]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

It was negative. …What a bloody joke of a system.

Your description reminds me of my mother’s stories of “simple” transactions in India, like booking a seat on a long-distance train.

[PhilT2]

So.... hospitals are using refrigerated trucks to handle the excess bodies. Churches and funeral services are reporting excess demand. But the death rate is not above normal. Sure, makes perfect sense.

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by burnz

I can't see this virus lasting that long, after all it was made in China..

I saw this back in May..

[russellw]

Data valid as at 23:59 GMT November 28th, 2020.

Note: As not all Australian States report at the same time, the data below is based on the previous full day reporting.

12 new cases for Australia and no deaths so the CMR drops to 3.253%. NSW recorded 8 cases, SA recorded 2 and ACT/Queensland recorded 1 each.

3 new case and no deaths for NZ so CMR is 1.220% and active cases rise to 69.

The UK had a higher 15,871 cases yesterday. We know they are now not counting their mortalities by the WHO guidelines so we are going to ignore the CMR but even using their method they recorded 479 deaths.

Just over 180.5k new cases in the USA yesterday and 1,411 deaths sees CMR drop to 2.013% and active cases rise to 39% with the raw numbers rising and now over 5.2M. Note that the USA is actually minus one day due to time differences.

Other notable points:
Global cases pass 62M with the last 1M in 2 days;
Global deaths pass 1.45M with the last 50k in 5 days;
South America passes 11M cases;
The USA completes 190M, India 138M, Russia 75M, Czechia, Austria & South Korea 3M tests.

Denmark (1,636);
Belarus (1,691);
Moldova (1,712);
Japan (2,577);
Azerbaijan (4,212);
Turkey (30,1435) as they added more asymptomatic cases with positive tests - we will continue to use the previous high of 7,381 for statistical purposes;
Mexico (12,081) - 11.2% above the previous high; and
Ukraine (16,294)

... all recorded new daily highs; those in blue for the second consecutive day and those in red for a third or more consecutive days.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

So, my daughter and I are in self isolation.

She came down with a sore throat yesterday. And she's been ill over the last few weeks, with fatigue as well as other symptoms. She's also had a pretty bad headache for the last few days. On top of that, she's developed the sweats, too.

She was supposed to work today, but called in sick. She works at a fast food restaurant.

She was due to go to her mother's today, and her grandfather is in a home. So, looking at the Covid guidelines, she had some of the symptoms which suggested she should get tested.

I rang the Covid hotline and the gent there stepped us through the questions. The recommendation from that process was that we should head up to our local hospital emergency department. So, after breakfast, we headed up to the hospital. The triage nurse assessed my daughter, and advised that we head back out to our car and wait in the car until we were contacted. Around 15 minutes later we received a call to say that the hospital assessment was that my daughter should get tested. To achieve this, we were asked to head into the ambulance drop-off bay and a tester would come out to our car.

As per the footage you see on the tv, the tester came out covered in her protective garb, and proceeded to explain the process to us. They first took a swab from the back of the throat, and then each nostril.

She then told us that we would both need to self isolate until we got the test results which we would get in 48hrs. I asked if it was possible that we would get a result back earlier than that, and she explained that it was possible, but 48hrs should be the maximum. She provided us with a piece of paper which provided us with additional info, collected our phone number for contact purposes, and sent us on or way.

Having had experience with visiting the emergency department, and sitting there for hours waiting to be seen, I wasn't looking forward to the wait, however I estimate we were there for less than an hour in total.

Thankfully I'm still WFH so there shouldn't be much of an impact over the next 48hrs. And, in some ways, the timing is not too bad for the daughter either as they are in their last week of school before Xmas anyway.

So, now we sit and wait......

[prydey]

My wife and daughter have been tested twice so far this year. once early on and another just recently. My daughter's school has a policy that if you have any time off due to cold like symptoms, you have to test negative to covid before coming back. Both times it was just a sniffle (cold first time, tonsilitis second time) but regardless, a test was required.

Both times my wife did an 'over the phone' consult with our doctor, who then gave a referral to the local pathology centre. Having an appointment means no waiting. Drive down, go to the drive through test area, get tested (my wife only got tested each time because those on duty said may as well seeing as how she was there) and come home. Both times got results via email and text within 48 hours.

Obviously those lining up for hours at public testing stations have a different experience.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by prydey

My daughter's school has a policy that if you have any time off due to cold like symptoms, you have to test negative to covid before coming back. Both times it was just a sniffle (cold first time, tonsilitis second time) but regardless, a test was required.

What I found interesting, was talking to my daughter she said that the cold is going around her school at the moment. The prime symptoms being the sore throat and headaches. I wonder how many of those kids have been tested given they are both symptoms of COVID?

And, until my daughter mentioned it, I wasn't aware that a cold was going around the school. You'd think the school would have informed parents?

[Citroënbender]

She’s probably just caught boy germs, at her age she might be disinclined to ‘fess up.

[Mr_G6ET]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

.............. You'd think the school would have informed parents?

One would think in these times, that would be a first point of call. As a community, we are a long way from controlling **** like covid. In Asia, out of respect the first person/child infected would wear a mask (as the first point of PPE)

And at least the first symptoms on a person quickly tested, easy stuff

[EgoFG]

Originally Posted by Work Horse

It's all here mate knock yourself out.

Thanks for the link

In the Download data section was this link:
https://data.cdc.gov/api/views/u6jv-...true%20target=
... "Weekly Deaths by State and Cause of Death"

I crunched the Unweighted figures only, and didn't factor in any population growth since 2015


Please note - Every death is tragic !!
I focused on YTD totals by week of all US mortalities regardless of cause.

YTD to Week 45 compared to the average of 2015 to 2019, 2020 had 3.74% more deaths
YTD to Week 45 compared to the 2018 (a bad flu year), 2020 has had 1.88% more deaths

These differences were a lot lower than I expected, So I reasoned that reporting would not be complete - the CDC (IIRC) said data could be 6 weeks behind ... so ...

YTD to Week 39 compared to the average of 2015 to 2019, 2020 had 4.95% more deaths
YTD to Week 39 compared to the 2018 (a bad flu year), 2020 has had 2.99% more deaths

still a very small difference
even smaller when you factor in a 0.66% population growth per annum.
(taking 1.32 off the 2018 comparison, and 1.98 of the 2015-2019 av comparison)

Please note - these are just the numbers I am not drawing any conclusions.

Interestingly the 2020 weekly figures went above the other two for about half the weeks I looked at (Sorry I did not include the graphs)

[russellw]

Data valid as at 23:59 GMT November 29th, 2020.

Note: As not all Australian States report at the same time, the data below is based on the previous full day reporting.

8 new cases for Australia and no deaths so the CMR drops to 3.252%. NSW recorded 4 cases, Queensland recorded 2 and WA recorded 1 case.

0 new case and no deaths for NZ so CMR is 1.220% and active cases remain at 69.

The UK had a lower 12,155 cases yesterday. We know they are now not counting their mortalities by the WHO guidelines so we are going to ignore the CMR but even using their method they recorded 215 deaths.

Just over 145k new cases in the USA yesterday and 1,215 deaths sees CMR drop to 2.00% and active cases drop to 38.9% with the raw numbers rising and now over 5.2M. Note that the USA is actually minus one day due to time differences.

Other notable points: (it's a weekend day again)
Global cases pass 63M with the last 1M in 1 day;
North Americas passes 16M cases;
Europe passes 17M cases;
The USA completes 192M, India 139M, Iran 6M, Netherlands 4M and Czechia 3M tests.

Japan (2,585);
Indonesia (6,267);
Hungary (6,819) and
Turkey (30,103) - now that they have caught up this is the new high;

... all recorded new daily highs; those in blue for the second consecutive day and those in red for a third or more consecutive days.

[Tickford.]

Victoria's (and subsequently Australia's) run of no deaths has come to an end with a woman in her 70's passing away today. Last recorded death was 28th October.

Interestingly the woman was diagnosed with COVID in late July, and was subsequently cleared as being COVID-free and reclassified as recovered.

The PM said: "The coroner will look at this, but our advice is that she passed away very recently. They believe the coronavirus-induced damage to her lungs has caused her to pass away, and therefore she is counted as a coronavirus death."

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by Tickford.

Victoria's (and subsequently Australia's) run of no deaths has come to an end with a woman in her 70's passing away today. Last recorded death was 28th October.

Interestingly the woman was diagnosed with COVID in late July, and was subsequently cleared as being COVID-free and reclassified as recovered.

The PM said: "The coroner will look at this, but our advice is that she passed away very recently. They believe the coronavirus-induced damage to her lungs has caused her to pass away, and therefore she is counted as a coronavirus death."

In my opinion statistics can be debatable if covid19 was the actual cause of death or just contributed to an existing ailment that would cause your death eventually.

[Tickford.]

Originally Posted by Officemanager

In my opinion statistics can be debatable if covid19 was the actual cause of death or just contributed to an existing ailment that would cause your death eventually.

So in your opinion, did she die because of COVID, or an existing ailment?

Let's say.. she was due to die in November 2022 with an existing ailment, but died in November 2020 because of complications to her existing ailment as a result of catching COVID.

Which would have eventually caused her to die?

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Tickford.

So in your opinion, did she die because of COVID, or an existing ailment?

Let's say.. she was due to die in November 2022 with an existing ailment, but died in November 2020 because of complications to her existing ailment as a result of catching COVID.

Which would have eventually caused her to die?

I think someone here once said "whatever caused the early death". I like that definition. Pretty clear. But not sure if that is a scientifically approved definition

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by Tickford.

So in your opinion, did she die because of COVID, or an existing ailment?

Let's say.. she was due to die in November 2022 with an existing ailment, but died in November 2020 because of complications to her existing ailment as a result of catching COVID.

Which would have eventually caused her to die?

Lets say the doctor will sign off with cause of death in the death certificate or the coroner will investigate if the doctor cannot establish the cause of death.

The doctor will write down all contributing ailments leading to death which means Covid19 might be or not be the only single cause of death.

[PhilT2]

Lancet report on the Oxford vaccine.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...466-1/fulltext

tl;dr it works.

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

I think someone here once said "whatever caused the early death". I like that definition. Pretty clear. But not sure if that is a scientifically approved definition

Ludicrous example warning...........

If I have a serious pre-existing condition, covid, was running with scissors, trip and cut myself, it gets infected then I die earlier due to the infection did I die from running with scissors, the infection, the pre-existing condition or covid?

Or do we record that as 4 different causes?

The main cause of death should be the cause. If all others were survivable, and I only died because of the pre-existing condition, then the pre-existing reason is THE cause.

Total deaths should equal the tally of deaths by causes. You cant say we had 10,000 deaths but then tally them up by cause and have that equal 40,000 deaths. Then statistics become useless.

[Work Horse]

Perhaps this thread needs a sticky; we seem to get the same questions coming up regularly.


INTERNATIONAL GUIDELINES FOR CERTIFICATION AND CLASSIFICATION (CODING) OF COVID-19 AS CAUSE OF DEATH
Based on ICD (International Statistical Classification of Diseases)
https://www.who.int/classifications/...ID-19.pdf?ua=1

[russellw]

Data valid as at 23:59 GMT November 30th, 2020.

Note: As not all Australian States report at the same time, the data below is based on the previous full day reporting.

9 new cases for Australia and 1 death so the CMR rises to 3.253%. NSW recorded all 9 cases.

6 new case and no deaths for NZ so CMR is 1.216% and active cases rise to 72.

The UK had a slightly higher 12,330 cases yesterday. We know they are now not counting their mortalities by the WHO guidelines so we are going to ignore the CMR but even using their method they recorded 203 deaths.

Just over 146k new cases in the USA yesterday and 841 deaths sees CMR drop to 1.985% and active cases rise to 39.1% with the raw numbers rising and now over 5.3M. Note that the USA is actually minus one day due to time differences.

Other notable points:
The USA completes 193M, India 140M, Russia 76M, UK 43M and Spain 22M tests.

Only Palestine (2,062); and
Turkey (31,219);

... recorded new daily highs; those in blue for the second consecutive day and those in red for a third or more consecutive days.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Hadn't heard anything back by lunchtime, so contacted the hospital to chase up the test results.

After a little bit of faffing around to get the right department, the test results were relayed to me: negative.

Funny thing is the nurse then said that if she's not showing anymore symptoms, we were right to cease self-isolation. That doesn't make sense to me. If she has the same symptoms now as when she reported and was tested, and the results came back as negative, then why the need to continue self-isolation?

Anyway, we are free again....