Petrol Price crisis......

[PG2]

Originally Posted by kmav23

People dont sue poor people.

If there is a problem chasing damage claims from someone being sued by many drivers, he could be bankrupt quickly.

You've lost me here. I think that now you are just making things up.

If your cars are not that expensive then fine.

My cars are quite expensive. The oldest car I have is my pride and joy and will probably keep forever.

But no way I would fuel up a brand new car.

That is your choice not to fill up at cheaper fuel stations.

Out of fairness, go ahead and reply to this post. After that, I will not be discussing this any further as I am sure that others are sick of reading posts between us two. If you have any further comment to be made to me you can PM me.


One thing to keep in mind though. This is a forum. Many members just like to get on here and vent. One of those things that they are venting about at the moment is fuel prices. They don't need someone getting on here and essentially telling them how stupid they are.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by kmav23

People dont sue poor people.

If there is a problem chasing damage claims from someone being sued by many drivers, he could be bankrupt quickly.

If your cars are not that expensive then fine.

But no way I would fuel up a brand new car.

Then how would you drive your brand new (non electric) car?

And lets keep this thread confined to Petrol fuelled cars and leave the Battery powered arguments to their relevant threads.

[theBlake]

Originally Posted by kmav23

The cheap independants selling toilet paper outside can mix the fuel with crap to make more money.

and the article you posted has no evidence nor suggestion of independants mixing the fuel with 'crap'

So again, do you have evidence of this or not?

If this was happening, there would be tens of thousands of damaged engines.

[jmack]

For your sake kmav23 i hope your partner dosnt work out how great battery powered appliances are or you could be made redundant

[hackney]

Originally Posted by kmav23

If you buy fuel from cheap dodgy places to save a few dollars you take a massive risk.

BP and the big companies are not going to do dodgy stuff as they would damage to their brand and face millions in lawsuits and fines.

Name the “dodgy” places? Most independents draw their fuel from the major’s.(Fact) again you lose.

[kmav23]

Originally Posted by theBlake

and the article you posted has no evidence nor suggestion of independants mixing the fuel with 'crap'

So again, do you have evidence of this or not?

If this was happening, there would be tens of thousands of damaged engines.

I'm saying there is a greater risk of mixing at an independent then a larger well know fuel station.

I did not say all independents do.

I prefer to drink at an independent cafe.

However for fuel, banking and things that might be risky...I will go with a larger company.

It's a trust and brand issue that larger companies have.

It's not widespread but I and majority of people go with larger service stations.

This is a common perception.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by hackney

Name the “dodgy” places? Most independents draw their fuel from the major’s.(Fact) again you lose.

And then there's those who fill up whilst a tanker is unloading.

[hackney]

Originally Posted by kmav23

I'm saying there is a greater risk of mixing at an independent then a larger well know fuel station.

I did not say all independents do.

I prefer to drink at an independent cafe.

However for fuel, banking and things that might be risky...I will go with a larger company.

It's a trust and brand issue that larger companies have.

It's not widespread but I and majority of people go with larger service stations.

Mixing? You can get contamited fuel @ a major,again fact.United has it’s own terminals in NSW,NT,Victoria & Tas.Never had an issue with their fuels.

[hackney]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

And then there's those who fill up whilst a tanker is unloading.

I don’t have an issue with that.Do you?

[kmav23]

Originally Posted by hackney

Mixing? You can get contamited fuel @ a major,again fact.United has it’s own terminals in NSW,NT,Victoria & Tas.Never had an issue with their fuels.

risky behavior is more likely from a smaller business.

They can dilute just a smaller amount that is not as noticeable which is smarter for them to get away with it.

If I have any issues i prefer it was with a larger company company like many people also do.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by hackney

I don’t have an issue with that.Do you?

Yes, very much so. I made the mistake of fuelling up with 98 at my local Woolies a few years ago now, and having driven Fuel Tankers I know that it can stir up whatever is in the underground tank.

I asked the driver what he was dropping and he said 91. But what he didn't say was that he'd just finished dropping 98

This is the result from when my mechanic changed the fuel filter.

[roddy1960]

Been a couple of months now since I've filled up anywhere but our local and only Caltex servo .. topped up the XR6 with 95 that she's run since I bought her and it's currently $1.78..How does that sit with other locations ?

91 is $1.67 ish and diesel is about the same..

[hackney]

Originally Posted by roddy1960

Been a couple of months now since I've filled up anywhere but our local and only Caltex servo .. topped up the XR6 with 95 that she's run since I bought her and it's currently $1.67..How does that sit with other locations ?

Sitting @ $1.80 for 98 where I am.Cheers

[roddy1960]

Originally Posted by hackney

Sitting @ $1.80 for 98 where I am.Cheers

Yep ...

Out of curiosity I had a look here tonight and the differences servo to servo and company to company is pretty big really . No wonder people shop around so much especially in and around the major cities ..

https://petrolspy.com.au/map/latlng/...20732999999996 ..

Cheers ..

[Sabantien]

Wish I could shop around.
There's only one servo in town, and when prices go up they never go down again.

I used to shop around when in Brisbane, but often the price difference wasn't more than maybe a dollar or two on a tank, and i'd spend more driving out of the way to get it.

[LG17]

Where I live in the bush, I have a very small independent servo. The next one would be 30 odd kays away.
I paid $1.92 for 98 the other day (car won't run on anything less) and the owners actually apologised and said they have no control over what they have to pay. They don't have a big margin and always try to do the right thing.
I have never had any bad fuel from there, even though it's a very old establishment.

[FTe342]

Originally Posted by kmav23

The cheap independants selling toilet paper outside can mix the fuel with crap to make more money.

If you have a brand new car are your going to risk destroying your car costing $10,000 and more to save a few dollars ?

I would and I do. I also buy from a BP servo thats over 20 cents a litre cheaper than another of their servos only 3-4 klms away.

You don't think independants have a reputation to worry about? How long do you think they will keep operating if they sell contaminated fuel. And to counter your argument about suing large companies you don't think independants carry insurance?

Water can get into fuel. There was a case a few years ago of a BP in the far western suburbs of Sydney that had a tank with water leaking into it. But thats what fuel filters are for. When was the last time you saw a string of cars broken down just down the road from a servo?

I used to work as a console operator at a BP servo and watched a customer wash the spilt fuel from their car all up and around the fuel filler recess BEFORE they replaced the fuel cap. Not all contaminations are the fault of the fuel companies/servos.

I drive a fuel tanker. I watch the carriers delivering fuel to independants and majors loading tankers out of the same terminals with the same fuel from the same tanks out of two of the major fuel companies terminals alongside me twice a day.

Vote with your feet. Its the same fuel. 10c/L equals $6/tank for 60 litres x a tank per week = $300 pa.

[hackney]

Well said FTE 342!Cheers

[LTDHO]

Originally Posted by kmav23

risky behavior is more likely from a smaller business.

They can dilute just a smaller amount that is not as noticeable which is smarter for them to get away with it.

If I have any issues i prefer it was with a larger company company like many people also do.

You are so far behind the times.

independent service stations get their fuel from the same place as the big boys. They can not risk a big "fuel contamination" suit as that would shut them down.

I have heard and seen many instances of fuel contamination, mostly from one of three water ingress points. Non of them intentional. All from the big companies.

BTW, this is off topic

[Dr Smith]

Diesel 20c/L more than petrol in Cheltenham yesterday 1.69 vs 1.49...I'm selling the diesel Territory and buying an SRT Grand Cherokee....no difference in monthly fuel bill but 5 secs gained in acceleration per traffic light........and my mother thinks I'm a legend for making her buy a petrol Escape.

[hackney]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Diesel 20c/L more than petrol in Cheltenham yesterday 1.69 vs 1.49...I'm selling the diesel Territory and buying an SRT Grand Cherokee....no difference in monthly fuel bill but 5 secs gained in acceleration.....

So you can beat the petrol price rise @ your local! Time saved,is more money in your pocket!

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by hackney

So you can beat the petrol price rise @ your local!

I've got Costco and United near me at work so I'm covered but they are not far behind.

[kmav23]

We could soon have sanctions against the 3 biggest oil producers, Iran, Saudia Arabia and Russia.

Oil prices were more then double in 2008.

Sooner we get off oil the better.

Saudi Arabia's oil is a powerful weapon. But using it has big risks

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/10/15/e...ces/index.html

Forty-five years ago, Saudi Arabia and its allies cut off oil supplies to the United States over its support for Israel. Oil prices quadrupled, delivering a huge shock to the global economy.

The world needs more Saudi oil to make up for a shortfall created by the reintroduction of US sanctions on Iran
Prices could hit $100 a barrel by the end of the year if Saudi Arabia doesn't follow through on commitments to pump more

Boom could be followed by bust as rising oil prices feed inflation that saps economic growth, hurting demand for energy
Now the kingdom is facing threats of punishment over the unexplained disappearance of a Washington Post journalist, Jamal Khashoggi, and is talking of retaliation if America imposes sanctions. A leading Saudi commentator has even hinted that oil could once again be used as a weapon.

Writing in a personal capacity, Turki Aldakhil, general manager of the Saudi-owned Al-Arabiya news channel, warned on Sunday that the United States would "stab its own economy to death" and oil prices would soar to $200 a barrel if Washington imposes sanctions on Riyadh.

Oil prices were flat on Monday, suggesting markets have for now dismissed the risk that Saudi Arabia could restrict supplies. Speaking in India, Saudi energy minister Khalid al-Falih said Monday that the kingdom would continue to act as "the central bank of the oil market" to keep supply and demand in balance, according to media reports.
But if the crisis over Khashoggi escalates, that commitment could crumble, say oil experts.

A rhetorical threat to withhold additional supplies "could certainly exert some upward pressure on prices," said Helima Croft, global head of commodity strategy at RBC Capital Markets.
And the kingdom could go further, by "slow-walking" output increases to make up for reduced Iranian supplies when US sanctions take effect next month, Croft added.

Filling the gap left by Iran
Saudi Arabia pumps around 10.5 million barrels of oil a day, according to OPEC data. It has previously said it is willing, along with Russia, to fill the gap created by the return of sanctions on Iran.
"We expect Iran's crude production to decline by nearly 1 million barrels per day," said Bjørnar Tonhaugen, head of oil market research at Rystad Energy. "Saudi Arabia is the only country that has spare production capacity ... to compensate for such losses."

World oil markets have been transformed by a doubling in American output over the past decade. For the first time since 1973, the United States is the world's largest producer of crude oil, according to preliminary estimates published last month.
Saudi Arabia's oil exports to the US have fallen in recent years but it remains the second biggest foreign supplier.

As a result, America is far less dependent on Saudi oil that it once was. In 2017, the United States imported 9% of its oil from the kingdom, according to the US Energy Information Administration. Imports from Saudi Arabia have almost halved over 25 years.
But the world, and the US still needs Saudi oil. While US imports of Saudi oil have declined, the kingdom remains the No. 2 source of foreign oil in the United States, behind only Canada.
Boom, then bust?

Any move by the Saudis to cut supply would push up global prices, hitting drivers in their pockets and further forcing up inflation that already threatens to take the shine off America's economy.
Saudi crown prince's economic vision is unraveling

Saudi crown prince's economic vision is unraveling 02:34
Such an oil shock would come at a very sensitive time. President Donald Trump has lashed out at OPEC, suggesting he's concerned about rising gasoline prices impacting next month's midterm elections. And concerns about inflation have helped send US Treasury yields spiking, setting off a wave of turbulence on Wall Street.
"Under a scenario where the Saudis scale back production, it is likely this will feed through to higher prices. How much upside, would depend on how much they cut production," said Warren Patterson, commodities strategist at ING.
Hitting $100 per barrel by the end of the year "is not impossible," if Saudi production is scaled back, Robin Mills, CEO of Qamar Energy told CNN.
It's a risky strategy. Saudi Arabia could end up shooting itself in the foot.
"Higher prices will likely lead to increased demand destruction in the short to medium term, while in the longer term it will only quicken the pace of structural changes we are seeing in energy markets, with regards to energy transition," said Patterson.

It may also encourage people to adopt cleaner technology.
"It is in Saudi Arabia's interest to keep prices moderate to avoid global economic damage and a slump in demand, a loss of market share to shale production, and the encouragement of non-oil technologies such as electric vehicles," Mills said.
ING's Patterson echoed the view: "Higher oil prices for a sustained period of time could help support higher penetration rates of electric vehicles moving forward."

[theBlake]

I would rather pay higher fuel prices than have the Saudis hold a gun to our head, as described in that article. Quite happy for Trump to do what he is doing, and not cave into these economic threats.

Many people are also forgetting, Oil was over $100 a barrel in recent years, and we were not paying >$1.50L for fuel at the same time, nothing like it.

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by theBlake

I l

Many people are also forgetting, Oil was over $100 a barrel in recent years, and we were not paying >$1.50L for fuel at the same time, nothing like it.

My work mates and meself won't forget that in a hurry, great times and will be great again if it gets back up there

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by theBlake

I would rather pay higher fuel prices than have the Saudis hold a gun to our head, as described in that article. Quite happy for Trump to do what he is doing, and not cave into these economic threats.

Many people are also forgetting, Oil was over $100 a barrel in recent years, and we were not paying >$1.50L for fuel at the same time, nothing like it.

When oil was over 100 a barrel our dollar was also at parity. Also at that time fuel was hitting the same prices we see now.

Either way for personal use fuel price isn't that bad. It's more companies that use large amounts that will be hardest hit and that will hurt the consumer more then paying a little more feeling up the car.

[kmav23]

Fuel could easily hit $2 based on the current geo political events.

[GO FURTHER]

Originally Posted by kmav23

Fuel could easily hit $2 based on the current geo political events.

Well, I don't think regular 91 will hit that mark next year, but with RON 98 currently at close enough to $1.90, it only needs a 10% increase (which can be common) and voila $2.00 it will be.

BTW, in today's Melbourne Herald Sun, it was reported that with the higher petrol prices, cafes and take-aways are and being hit hard, with consumers spending less at these establishments than normal because of the price hikes.

[kmav23]

Originally Posted by GO FURTHER

Well, I don't think regular 91 will hit that mark next year, but with RON 98 currently at close enough to $1.90, it only needs a 10% increase (which can be common) and voila $2.00 it will be.

BTW, in today's Melbourne Herald Sun, it was reported that with the higher petrol prices, cafes and take-aways are and being hit hard, with consumers spending less at these establishments than normal because of the price hikes.

do not forget the falling house prices..

people who borrowed and spent against their rising equity are tightening their belt.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by GO FURTHER

BTW, in today's Melbourne Herald Sun, it was reported that with the higher petrol prices, cafes and take-aways are and being hit hard, with consumers spending less at these establishments than normal because of the price hikes.

Food retail/service has been growing ahead of total retail growth. It stands to reason it might see a contraction when essentials go up in cost. I'd argue at least in the café market, people tend to overpay (and I'm curious who's profiting because it certainly isn't our farming sector). Wait til there's an interest rate hike.....