Covid 19 -

[MITCHAY]

NSW is the gold standard, save for the Ruby Princess debacle. And as far as I'm aware taking on the biggest burden for international arrivals. They have kept **** pretty much open and running as normal due to good tracing. There is a problem and now they are fixing it.

NSW and ACT are the only places that have kept calm on and carried on through this whole thing and there have been **** loads of people moving between both

It would have been good to have it all open for Christmas/NY but looking unlikely now.

[Citroënbender]

28 diagnosed cases out of what - 3.5 million residents?

I’m confident the current outbreak will be contained smartly. Many of the instituted behaviours (especially people keeping their distance) will be assisting in slowing contagion rates.

WA is, I believe, opinion shopping for a long term strategy of secession.

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by Tickford.

Hopefully, this cluster results in zero. No nobody wants to see anything more.

Curious, why the smiley face with a thumbs up after you refer to the number of deaths? Is there a competition for the number of deaths that you find amusing?

Sigh... I know I shouldn’t but...

Despite the obtuseness of your post and the Victorian-sized shoulder chip, yes, it does come down to numbers. If NSW nails this down quickly and no one dies I’d call that a win.

Wouldn’t you?

[Tickford.]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

If NSW nails this down quickly and no one dies I’d call that a win.

A win for..... NSW??

Forgive my obtuseness, Mr Blofeld (or was it Mr Maguire?). As a humble Victorian, with 'chip on shoulder', I'm obviously not as intelligent, nor shrewd as you, the New South Welshmen. Who, obviously has a bigger chip on his shoulder.

But, I can read into your insinuation. Your smiley used at the end of your comment on Victoria's "body count" was insensitive, and in poor taste.

You are, and have previously, used the number of COVID deaths in Victoria as some sort of p*ssing contest to make a point. With a hint of antagonism even. See below for example.

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

Really? Do you really want me to reach back in time and we can all discuss the the ~850 people Victoria murdered killed?

It's pretty deplorable that you seem to find the 820 COVID deaths in Victoria amusing. And used as some sort of trump card for your amusement.

Interstate rivalry always was, and will always be. We all make fun and have a joke about each other, and our representative State/Territory. Fair go. But to think 820 deaths is something deserving of a " " smiley, that is just deplorable.

[MITCHAY]

I think he was pointing out VICs failures when you are calling out NSW.

Whatever is going on now in NSW hopefully won't ever compare to the **** up in VIC. You can't argue with facts mate is the point.

[MITCHAY]

To put things in perspective we have had 28 cases and we lost our **** while the US has had the better part of 4k deaths and 250k new cases in the past 24hrs. 310k dead now. How the **** is that acceptable over there?

They have so many cases the CMR rate drops every day even though they have record deaths. Where is the bottom?

[mostly_broncos]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

To put things in perspective we have had 28 cases and we lost our **** while the US has had the better part of 4k deaths and 250k new cases in the past 24hrs. 310k dead now. How the **** is that acceptable over there?

They have so many cases the CMR rate drops every day even though they have record deaths. Where is the bottom?

they are not record deaths as a percentage of "cases"

in fact we had days in april with 3000 deaths on 30,000 or so cases .

3000 deaths on ten times as many cases would indicate better treatment and/or cases among less vulnerable patients

[MITCHAY]

That's a higher CMR but you're turning out record deaths in total. Even if you accept a 1% CMR that is 1000/100k.

We've had <30k cases and about 900 deaths this whole pandemic and this is eclipsed in the US every single day by a long way. Even accounting for population difference, that is shocking.

We are twisting ourselves in knots over 28 cases and 0 deaths

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by mostly_broncos

The guy has been dead for 45 years hasn't he?

He was also my favorite generalissimo , although I don't really know of any others.

Sorry, broncos, missed this post earlier.

Franco (the one I was referring to) is a regular member on these forums. It was a play on words that CB had used. Franco (the aff user) has a reputation for 'getting to know the local ladies', hence the reference to the working girl comment from CB.

It was just a bit of fun with an 'in house' joke. Hope that helps clear that up.

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by Tickford.

A win for..... NSW??

Forgive my obtuseness, Mr Blofeld (or was it Mr Maguire?). As a humble Victorian, with 'chip on shoulder', I'm obviously not as intelligent, nor shrewd as you, the New South Welshmen. Who, obviously has a bigger chip on his shoulder.

But, I can read into your insinuation. Your smiley used at the end of your comment on Victoria's "body count" was insensitive, and in poor taste.

You are, and have previously, used the number of COVID deaths in Victoria as some sort of p*ssing contest to make a point. With a hint of antagonism even. See below for example.


It's pretty deplorable that you seem to find the 820 COVID deaths in Victoria amusing. And used as some sort of trump card for your amusement.

Interstate rivalry always was, and will always be. We all make fun and have a joke about each other, and our representative State/Territory. Fair go. But to think 820 deaths is something deserving of a " " smiley, that is just deplorable.

Originally Posted by Tickford.

So once again NSW has failed protocols. First there was the Ruby Princess debacle. Then there was the NZ arrivals that somehow managed to get on a domestic flight to Melbourne. Then a quarantine hotel cleaner catches the virus from US flight crew, and travels on public transport for almost a week before being discovered. And now two German arrivals who were meant to be in hotel quarantine in Sydney, have turned up in Melbourne!



How can NSW Health allow these slip ups to occur? Maybe Berejiklian has other issues on her mind? Like trying to find barrels for her pigs to hide in?

As MITCHAY said, you tediously bang on about NSW failings and conveniently ignore the Victorian disaster.

Anyway, we clearly aren't going to understand each other's positions so I suggest you just use the "ignore" function for my posts.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Tickford.

Gladys Berejiklian really is in a tough spot isn't she? She knows she needs to follow Victoria's lead, and introduce mandatory mask wearing, enforce restrictions, or even lockdown the state right NOW!

Adelaide did the right (good onya) thing a few weeks ago.

Time for Glady to build a "ring of steel" around $ydney but that ain't going to happen, money is more important to her, besides its to late to close the gate, everyone has already skipped town last night.

She complains last night about the unfairness of country NSW not being part of $ydney but was quite happy to shut the border with country Victoria a couple of months ago.
She urges people to get tested if they show signs, yet she comes to Albury with symptoms while awaiting results and not isolating.

This will all disappear just in time for her NYE extravaganza.

[russellw]

A couple of things.

I'm not going to tolerate NSW bashing in this thread despite the hammering that Victoria copped so if you want to have those discussions then expect to get a holiday.

I'm not terribly sure that initiating the sort of sanctions being imposed on people retrospectively is actually fair play. In effect what some State governments are doing is saying that despite the fact you've been free to move around for the last seven or eight days, you now need to self isolate for the next 14 days if you have been on the Northern Beaches in Sydney. It's unclear what this means in terms of returning home.

As usual, the bulk of the mass exodus between the States (particularly NSW/Vic) has already happened before the restrictions were in place so damage already done.

For those complaining about the cost of air travel, let's remember that it is only in the last 3 decades or so that it has become so affordable. In 1964, when jet travel became widely available for Australian domestic flights, a person on average yearly earnings (£980) could purchase 9 return economy flights between Melbourne and Sydney whereas at the beginning of this year that same average earnings ($89,128) would buy more than 250 return flights between Melbourne and Sydney and even more with some carriers.

It's no different with International travel. The Sydney - London 'Kangaroo Route' is a great case in point.

First flown in 1947, the cost was £585 or a little over $40,000 today. Using average wages, our 1947 traveller needed about 120 weeks pay to buy a ticket - not that they realistically could.

By the mid 70's and the widespread introduction of the 747, that cost was ~$2,500 (~$18,000 today) or 17 weeks average weekly wage ($146).

By the mid 80's, deregulation and the introduction of 'no frills' airlines that was down to $2,300 ($6,860 today) or about 6.5 weeks average weekly wage ($355).

By the mid 00's, that had stabilised at about $2,600 ($3,458 today) or about 2.3 weeks average weekly wage ($1,133) so it was becoming more affordable until just prior to the COVID pandemic when the median price for that trip was $1,288 which represented only 0.75 of the average weekly wage ($1,714).

Fast forward to now and the current median cost for that trip is $4,048 or 2.3 weeks average weekly earnings or about where it was in 2005. To even get back to 1980's levels that would need to cost more than $11,000 so we perhaps shouldn't complain in real terms.

[Tickford.]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

you tediously bang on about NSW failings and conveniently ignore the Victorian disaster.

You got to love the use of the words "tedious" and "conveniently". Exaggeration much??

Yes, I have pointed out NSW Health's failings on several occasions. But - not once did I make fun of the deaths in NSW, or any other State/Territory. Did you "conveniently" miss that point did you?

When the PM of Australia, plays political games during a pandemic that is national issue, and decides it'll be a good idea to be divisive by labelling NSW the "Golden Standard State", and essentially calling out every other State and Territory, it put a target on NSW's back.

After the **** that was VIC (I didn't "ignore" the "Victorian disaster" BTW. Go back and read my posts), all States and Territories have managed to keep the community transmission in check. SA for example, was quick to react when they thought there was a problem last month. SA swiftly went into a six day lockdown to contain it. Luckily, it didn't turn out to be as big an issue. But they reacted quick. NSW on the other hand, has been too slow and too relaxed on COVID protocols. International arrivals being let out in the community, masks are not mandatory in crowded places, gatherings, public transport, etc. for example. NSW is the only State having regular "mishaps", and problems with containing the spread throughout the community in the last couple of months. How come?

Even at this moment, just over two days since detection of this cluster, and with 28 cases (and rising), NSW is still slow to react. Not reacting fast enough to try and contain it within NSW. And in doing so, could have spread it nationwide, as people have left NSW in their thousands, potentially taking the virus with them. And now this morning, news suggest this is not isolated to the northern beaches, and could be a Sydney Metro issue! Great!! Well done NSW Health. Well done. Trying so hard to play on with the "we have to live with this virus" monopoly that the PM sprouted. As long as NSW stays open who gives a rats about other States and Territories yeah??

BTW, NSW have still not been able to find out who 'case zero' was/is! How's that Golden Standard contact tracing system going?

I sincerely hope that this NSW problem doesn't become an Australia problem. But the way NSW Health have been, and are are behaving, I have my doubts. I hope I'm wrong.

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by russellw

A couple of things.

I'm not going to tolerate NSW bashing in this thread despite the hammering that Victoria copped so if you want to have those discussions then expect to get a holiday.

I'm not terribly sure that initiating the sort of sanctions being imposed on people retrospectively is actually fair play. In effect what some State governments are doing is saying that despite the fact you've been free to move around for the last seven or eight days, you now need to self isolate for the next 14 days if you have been on the Northern Beaches in Sydney. It's unclear what this means in terms of returning home.

As usual, the bulk of the mass exodus between the States (particularly NSW/Vic) has already happened before the restrictions were in place so damage already done.

For those complaining about the cost of air travel, let's remember that it is only in the last 3 decades or so that it has become so affordable. In 1964, when jet travel became widely available for Australian domestic flights, a person on average yearly earnings (£980) could purchase 9 return economy flights between Melbourne and Sydney whereas at the beginning of this year that same average earnings ($89,128) would buy more than 250 return flights between Melbourne and Sydney and even more with some carriers.

It's no different with International travel. The Sydney - London 'Kangaroo Route' is a great case in point.

First flown in 1947, the cost was £585 or a little over $40,000 today. Using average wages, our 1947 traveller needed about 120 weeks pay to buy a ticket - not that they realistically could.

By the mid 70's and the widespread introduction of the 747, that cost was ~$2,500 (~$18,000 today) or 17 weeks average weekly wage ($146).

By the mid 80's, deregulation and the introduction of 'no frills' airlines that was down to $2,300 ($6,860 today) or about 6.5 weeks average weekly wage ($355).

By the mid 00's, that had stabilised at about $2,600 ($3,458 today) or about 2.3 weeks average weekly wage ($1,133) so it was becoming more affordable until just prior to the COVID pandemic when the median price for that trip was $1,288 which represented only 0.75 of the average weekly wage ($1,714).

Fast forward to now and the current median cost for that trip is $4,048 or 2.3 weeks average weekly earnings or about where it was in 2005. To even get back to 1980's levels that would need to cost more than $11,000 so we perhaps shouldn't complain in real terms.

I don't think anyone is complaining about the cost of air travel per say but are voicing there disapproval over the hike in prices in the space of a few hours, the demand for seats out of Sydney went through the roof so some airlines decided to capitalise on it by raising prices.

[PhilT2]

Cost me $650 to fly to Tokyo in '76, in a wide body DC10. Making about $150/wk. Paid $25,000 for an average house in Brisbane outer suburbs a year later. Times have changed. Competition seems to be the biggest factor in determining prices.

[Tickford.]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

I don't think anyone is complaining about the cost of air travel per say but are voicing there disapproval over the hike in prices in the space of a few hours, the demand for seats out of Sydney went through the roof so some airlines decided to capitalise on it by raising prices.

Maybe it was the airlines way of trying to discourage Sydney siders from travelling interstate? They were probably trying to do all the other states and Territories a favour, since the NSW government were so slow to react?

It did work to some extent. I personally know of two families who have made it to Melbourne from Sydney metro before the restrictions came into effect at midnight. One family paid the hiked prices and was in Melbourne by 18:00 yesterday. The other family hurriedly jumped in the car and crossed the border at 21:00pm last night into Victoria.

[.:4:.]

Had my first sort of experience with this covid business. Due to the northern beaches 'outbreak', my mum got tested as her boyfriend lives up that way. It was a negative result. But regardless, and im not saying anything ill towards policy, but the nursing home my grandparents live in have said no contact for 14 days. So thats put a dampener on christmas.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Tickford.

You got to love the use of the words "tedious" and "conveniently". Exaggeration much??

Yes, I have pointed out NSW Health's failings on several occasions. But - not once did I make fun of the deaths in NSW, or any other State/Territory. Did you "conveniently" miss that point did you?

When the PM of Australia, plays political games during a pandemic that is national issue, and decides it'll be a good idea to be divisive by labelling NSW the "Golden Standard State", and essentially calling out every other State and Territory, it put a target on NSW's back.

After the clusterf**k that was VIC (I didn't "ignore" the "Victorian disaster" BTW. Go back and read my posts), all States and Territories have managed to keep the community transmission in check. SA for example, was quick to react when they thought there was a problem last month. SA swiftly went into a six day lockdown to contain it. Luckily, it didn't turn out to be as big an issue. But they reacted quick. NSW on the other hand, has been too slow and too relaxed on COVID protocols. International arrivals being let out in the community, masks are not mandatory in crowded places, gatherings, public transport, etc. for example. NSW is the only State having regular "mishaps", and problems with containing the spread throughout the community in the last couple of months. How come?

Even at this moment, just over two days since detection of this cluster, and with 28 cases (and rising), NSW is still slow to react. Not reacting fast enough to try and contain it within NSW. And in doing so, could have spread it nationwide, as people have left NSW in their thousands, potentially taking the virus with them. And now this morning, news suggest this is not isolated to the northern beaches, and could be a Sydney Metro issue! Great!! Well done NSW Health. Well done. Trying so hard to play on with the "we have to live with this virus" monopoly that the PM sprouted. As long as NSW stays open who gives a rats ar*e about other States and Territories yeah??

BTW, NSW have still not been able to find out who 'case zero' was/is! How's that Golden Standard contact tracing system going?

I sincerely hope that this NSW problem doesn't become an Australia problem. But the way NSW Health have been, and are are behaving, I have my doubts. I hope I'm wrong.

You must have missed Russell's post directly above yours...read it again.

[Tickford.]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

You must have missed Russell's post directly above yours...read it again.

Yes, I did miss it.
So.. Trump's USA, and also Berejiklian's NSW, both with COVID issues currently, are not allowed in the COVID thread. Gotcha! No problem.
Will comply.

[russellw]

Data valid as at 23:59 GMT December 18th, 2020.

Note: As not all Australian States report at the same time, the data below is based on the previous full day reporting.

23 new cases for Australia and 0 deaths so the CMR is 3.232%. NSW recorded 16 cases, Queensland 3 and WA, Vic & the NT recorded 1 each.

10 new cases and no deaths for NZ so CMR is 1.185% and active cases 51.

The UK had a lower 26,507 cases yesterday and 489 deaths.

Just under 239k new cases in the USA yesterday and 3,400 deaths sees CMR drop to 1.804% and active cases at 39.8% with the raw numbers rising and now over 7.0M. Note that the USA is actually minus one day due to time differences.

Other notable points:
Global cases set a new daily high of 738,206 (17/12);
India passes 10M cases;
The USA completes 230M, India 158M, France 30M, Turkey 22M, UAE 19M, South Africa 6M and Iraq 4M tests.

Syria (169) - for the 5th consecutive day;
Namibia (434);
Paraguay (1,268) - the previous high on September 12th;
Slovakia (3,991);
Denmark (4,508);
Sweden (9,659);
Colombia (13,277) - the previous high on August 18th; and
Germany (31,553)

... recorded new daily highs; those in blue for the second consecutive day and those in red for a third or more consecutive days.

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

We are twisting ourselves in knots over 28 cases and 0 deaths

I can't tell if you're for/against the twisting ourselves in knots, your post kinda reads like it could be either way. But in the event you think it's silly we're locking down on 28 cases, back in January people were laughing at anyone who took the virus seriously because there were "only" 100 cases. Then it grew, as many said it would.

With a little foresight most people should be able to see why 28 cases is a worry. Today it's 28, in a week it's 60, two weeks it's over a hundred. Once it starts to run away it gets going and is unstoppable without massive intervention.

The easiest way to prevent the ****heap that we know it can grow in to.... is to nip it in the bud while we have 'only' 28 cases.

[russellw]

Originally Posted by Tickford.

Yes, I did miss it.
So.. Trump's USA, and also Berejiklian's NSW, both with COVID issues currently, are not allowed in the COVID thread. Gotcha! No problem.
Will comply.

Clearly, subtleties are not your forte. Both the USA and NSW issues with COVID19 can be raised and discussed. What will not be tolerated is commentary of an overtly political nature or which is only focused on playing the blame game.

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

I don't think anyone is complaining about the cost of air travel per say but are voicing there disapproval over the hike in prices in the space of a few hours, the demand for seats out of Sydney went through the roof so some airlines decided to capitalise on it by raising prices.

I don't know about this. I've flown heaps over the last 30 years and have often had to purchase and fly same day (at the client's expense). I've paid $600, $700 to go Sydney to Brisbane or well over $1200 to go to Perth.

Airfares are structured to increase really quickly in $ as d-day approaches. I'd say people are complaining now because it's the first time for many of them to have actually purchased and flown within a day or so.

[PhilT2]

Qld Health have put up the contact tracing list for the infected person who came up from Sydney on the 16th.
https://www.qld.gov.au/health/condit...yg_zSNlD5J3NuM

[mostly_broncos]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

Sorry, broncos, missed this post earlier.

Franco (the one I was referring to) is a regular member on these forums. It was a play on words that CB had used. Franco (the aff user) has a reputation for 'getting to know the local ladies', hence the reference to the working girl comment from CB.

It was just a bit of fun with an 'in house' joke. Hope that helps clear that up.

It reminded me of an old bit from the TV show saturday night live. Its still on but its awful now . For some reason which I no longer recall every show on the weekend update skit they would mention that generalissimo francisco franco is still dead

[mostly_broncos]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

That's a higher CMR but you're turning out record deaths in total. Even if you accept a 1% CMR that is 1000/100k.

We've had <30k cases and about 900 deaths this whole pandemic and this is eclipsed in the US every single day by a long way. Even accounting for population difference, that is shocking.

We are twisting ourselves in knots over 28 cases and 0 deaths

I don't think you all comprehend how wretched our healthcare "system" is


The guy I mentioned a week or so ago who had the covid who they wouldn't admit into the hospital until he got pneumonia , the same guy who had a final zoom call with his family , is now home! he literally checked himself out with pneumonia to die at home.

He was terrified he was going to catch something else while in hospital that would kill him instead of the covid which in his words he was handling ok.

He went home and has someone come do IV antibiotics twice a day and is recovering.

The guy has one kidney and opted to go home and take his chances.

His 2 kids are taking care of him , they never tested positive initially and so far feel ok.

All are case numbers are wildly distorted by these new quick tests which seem to return a lot of false positives . Its happened to 2 people I know in the last couple weeks. Incidentally the quick test is not covered by a lot of insurance plans , they are telling people if they want the quick test its $250 out of pocket. They get a positive and are told to get one of the original swab tests , which insurance "will" pay for.

So they tested positive on a quick test they paid for , got a slow test for free , waited 3 days were negative but stayed home from work for no reason and lost 3 days pay. They were probably counted as both a positive "case" then a negative test also 3 days later .

That being said my guess is our case numbers are much lower than what we actually have had. By millions probably , the first 3 months lots of people couldn't get tests at all and then just got over it and will never know if they had it or something else.

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

I don't know about this. I've flown heaps over the last 30 years and have often had to purchase and fly same day (at the client's expense). I've paid $600, $700 to go Sydney to Brisbane or well over $1200 to go to Perth.

Airfares are structured to increase really quickly in $ as d-day approaches. I'd say people are complaining now because it's the first time for many of them to have actually purchased and flown within a day or so.

Whether you know about it or not is irrelevant, and tit-for-tat, I have been flying to work and back for well over 30 years, domestic and international, and i haven't stopped flying interstate all through the pandemic.... so take that, and what i posted has bugger all to do with that or your flying experience or the 'normal' price hikes....

https://www.news.com.au/travel/trave...42c497f0ec4433

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...leave-NSW.html

https://www.fordforums.com.au/showpo...postcount=8308

.....normally at peak periods such as holidays etc (and short notice) the airlines have the vast majority of there fleets flying so can and do demand higher seat prices, at the moment though most major airports around Aus look like Kingman Airport in the Arizona desert with the amount of planes parked up, get some of them planes back up in the air and spread the load, help justify the recent Gov handouts to prop up the airlines during the pandemic and make more seats available.....

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

Whether you know about it or not is irrelevant, and tit-for-tat, I have been flying to work and back for well over 30 years, domestic and international, and i haven't stopped flying interstate all through the pandemic.... so take that, and what i posted has bugger all to do with that or your flying experience or the 'normal' price hikes....

Cool story brah. I nearly got to the end of the first sentence before I lost-

[tweeked]

Early days for this bre outbreak in NSW, but what i immediately notice is the very specific info available very quickly compared to what we got in VIC. This train at this time, this cafe at this time. Vic i was getting text messages saying that there was a case in my area, and to get tested if i felt unwell. Vic seemed to get better with the last scare around Shepp... I am glad some changes are being made with flight crews, that made no sense .

[Tickford.]

Rupert Murdoch has had the Pfizer COVID vaccine overnight.

https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/...19-p56owb.html

In the meantime, he tells his various News Corp media outlets to continue to undermine the pandemic, and the COVID vaccination campaign, and keep spreading misinformation.

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/busin...a-lon-orig.cnn

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/tuck...ech-censorship