Covid 19 -

[oldel]

Originally Posted by Romulus

You’re not one of those double digit IQ folk who believed this came from a fish market in Wuhan?

I've read lots of funny stuff, like pangolins and bats, but that wasn't my point. It only came out of China because the western worlds employs so many Chinese overseas for cheap labour - and what does that have to do with Trump? The Chinese wouldn't target Iran, Italy and the cruise ship industry to get at Trump. Only Trump himself and the single digit IQ folks who worship him would believe that

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

Link please.

You won't find an official CIA or NSA press release stating their knowledge of Covid-19 back in November last year. Their intelligence knew something was going on back then.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ds-show-report

[oldel]

If you want to talk about being prewarned, SARS is similar and they still haven't got a vaccine for it, neither was Trump POTUS. This is just a mutation on that and I guess the world stopped caring about that corona virus because it was pretty much contained in Asia. Mostly because there wasn't many Chinese working in Italy or on cruise ships during the SARS outbreak.

[Fed]

Has anyone figured out how to make a homemade ventilator yet using common household parts?
They're just a mechanical bellows aren't they.
I'd turn the handle for while for my wife if she couldn't do it.

[GasoLane]

Pinched from FB....................

[oldel]

Originally Posted by Fed

Has anyone figured out how to make a homemade ventilator yet using common household parts?
They're just a mechanical bellows aren't they.
I'd turn the handle for while for my wife if she couldn't do it.

You could use a CPAP (sleep apnea machine). The only reason why hospitals don't is of course it's not a sealed system, air is vented out freely so the person using one can infect others.
But if you're dying from covid19 at home and the hospitals are full anyway feel free to use one.


E: I bet everywhere is sold out of them or the price for them has doubled recently!

[b0son]

Originally Posted by oldel

If you want to talk about being prewarned, SARS is similar and they still haven't got a vaccine for it

SARS ran its course. There was no money to be made, so a vaccine was never tested.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/healt...dried-n1150091

[oldel]

Yeah I know. Imagine how much closer they would be right now with a vaccine for covid19 if they persisted back then.

Oh well, too bad. You can't say the world wasn't warned though!
That's the problem with people, we keep not caring until it affects us personally or financially.

[CJR09]

Originally Posted by Romulus

You won't find an official CIA or NSA press release stating their knowledge of Covid-19 back in November last year. Their intelligence knew something was going on back then.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ds-show-report

Chyna have ascertained as much so it would make sense that global intelligence agencies would have a certain amount of knowledge of it as well - doesn't mean there is any conspiracy going on though

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/soci...se-traced-back

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by oldel

If you want to talk about being prewarned, SARS is similar and they still haven't got a vaccine for it, neither was Trump POTUS. This is just a mutation on that and I guess the world stopped caring about that corona virus because it was pretty much contained in Asia. Mostly because there wasn't many Chinese working in Italy or on cruise ships during the SARS outbreak.

It was also due to rich Chinese flying direct from Wuhan to Northern Italy to shop. The government there encouraged the locals to hug a Chinese at the start of the outbreak because they were worried about potential racism.
February 1st was hug a Chinese day...
8 weeks later there's 10000 dead.

[marty351]

Excellent!

[oldel]

Originally Posted by XR Martin

It was also due to rich Chinese flying direct from Wuhan to Northern Italy to shop. The government there encouraged the locals to hug a Chinese at the start of the outbreak because they were worried about potential racism.
February 1st was hug a Chinese day...
8 weeks later there's 10000 dead.

That wasn't specific to Chinese shoppers and tourists. Northern Italy is now full of Chinese workers, the amount of them there has been growing for 10 years because they work there making all the "made in Italy" fashions, leather and pottery etc which was my point.

The government was trying to cool the racism there because of the workers, not the shoppers.
First google link for hug a chinese: https://kprcradio.iheart.com/feature...a-chinese-day/

Workers!

If the cruise lines, Italian industry and where ever else wasn't being typical in their behaviour (import the cheapest labour and don't pay the local labour rate or hire locals) then this virus wouldn't have got spread so much. Western employers choices is the cause for the spread of this virus.

As I mentioned before, the only difference between covid19 and SARS is in the past 15 or so years western companies have been increasingly reliant on cheap goods AND imported labour from China. If that wasn't the case this wouldn't have spread more than SARS in 2002 (plenty of rich Chinese shoppers and tourists back then as well.) It's only the spreading of the Chinese workforce that has changed since.
E: You could casually google right now and find a lot of articles from between 2010 and 2018 remarking on the increasing numbers of Chinese working on cruise ships or in northern Italy between those years because it was newsworthy as it was happening.
That's why the West has SARS 2.0

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

Link please.

This from the US Department of Justice in January 2020

Department of Justice
Office of Public Affairs
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Tuesday, January 28, 2020
Harvard University Professor and Two Chinese Nationals Charged in Three Separate China Related Cases
The Department of Justice announced today that the Chair of Harvard University’s Chemistry and Chemical Biology Department and two Chinese nationals have been charged in connection with aiding the People’s Republic of China.

Dr. Charles Lieber, 60, Chair of the Department of Chemistry and Chemical Biology at Harvard University, was arrested this morning and charged by criminal complaint with one count of making a materially false, fictitious and fraudulent statement. Lieber will appear this afternoon before Magistrate Judge Marianne B. Bowler in federal court in Boston, Massachusetts.

Yanqing Ye, 29, a Chinese national, was charged in an indictment today with one count each of visa fraud, making false statements, acting as an agent of a foreign government and conspiracy. Ye is currently in China.

Zaosong Zheng, 30, a Chinese national, was arrested on Dec. 10, 2019, at Boston’s Logan International Airport and charged by criminal complaint with attempting to smuggle 21 vials of biological research to China. On Jan. 21, 2020, Zheng was indicted on one count of smuggling goods from the United States and one count of making false, fictitious or fraudulent statements. He has been detained since Dec. 30, 2019.

Dr. Charles Lieber

According to court documents, since 2008, Dr. Lieber who has served as the Principal Investigator of the Lieber Research Group at Harvard University, which specialized in the area of nanoscience, has received more than $15,000,000 in grant funding from the National Institutes of Health (NIH) and Department of Defense (DOD). These grants require the disclosure of significant foreign financial conflicts of interest, including financial support from foreign governments or foreign entities. Unbeknownst to Harvard University beginning in 2011, Lieber became a “Strategic Scientist” at Wuhan University of Technology (WUT) in China and was a contractual participant in China’s Thousand Talents Plan from in or about 2012 to 2017. China’s Thousand Talents Plan is one of the most prominent Chinese Talent recruit plans that are designed to attract, recruit, and cultivate high-level scientific talent in furtherance of China’s scientific development, economic prosperity and national security. These talent programs seek to lure Chinese overseas talent and foreign experts to bring their knowledge and experience to China and reward individuals for stealing proprietary information. Under the terms of Lieber’s three-year Thousand Talents contract, WUT paid Lieber $50,000 USD per month, living expenses of up to 1,000,000 Chinese Yuan (approximately $158,000 USD at the time) and awarded him more than $1.5 million to establish a research lab at WUT. In return, Lieber was obligated to work for WUT “not less than nine months a year” by “declaring international cooperation projects, cultivating young teachers and Ph.D. students, organizing international conference[s], applying for patents and publishing articles in the name of” WUT.

The complaint alleges that in 2018 and 2019, Lieber lied about his involvement in the Thousand Talents Plan and affiliation with WUT. On or about, April 24, 2018, during an interview with investigators, Lieber stated that he was never asked to participate in the Thousand Talents Program, but he “wasn’t sure” how China categorized him. In November 2018, NIH inquired of Harvard whether Lieber had failed to disclose his then-suspected relationship with WUT and China’s Thousand Talents Plan. Lieber caused Harvard to falsely tell NIH that Lieber “had no formal association with WUT” after 2012, that “WUT continued to falsely exaggerate” his involvement with WUT in subsequent years, and that Lieber “is not and has never been a participant in” China’s Thousand Talents Plan.

Yanqing Ye

According to the indictment, Ye is a Lieutenant of the People’s Liberation Army (PLA), the armed forces of the People’s Republic of China and member of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP). On her J-1 visa application, Ye falsely identified herself as a “student” and lied about her ongoing military service at the National University of Defense Technology (NUDT), a top military academy directed by the CCP. It is further alleged that while studying at Boston University’s (BU) Department of Physics, Chemistry and Biomedical Engineering from October 2017 to April 2019, Ye continued to work as a PLA Lieutenant completing numerous assignments from PLA officers such as conducting research, assessing U.S. military websites and sending U.S. documents and information to China.

According to court documents, on April 20, 2019, federal officers interviewed Ye at Boston’s Logan International Airport. During the interview, it is alleged that Ye falsely claimed that she had minimal contact with two NUDT professors who were high-ranking PLA officers. However, a search of Ye’s electronic devices demonstrated that at the direction of one NUDT professor, who was a PLA Colonel, Ye had accessed U.S. military websites, researched U.S. military projects and compiled information for the PLA on two U.S. scientists with expertise in robotics and computer science. Furthermore, a review of a WeChat conversation revealed that Ye and the other PLA official from NUDT were collaborating on a research paper about a risk assessment model designed to decipher data for military applications. During the interview, Ye admitted that she held the rank of Lieutenant in the PLA and admitted she was a member of the CCP.

Zaosong Zheng

In August 2018, Zheng entered the United States on a J-1 visa and conducted cancer-cell research at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center in Boston from Sept. 4, 2018, to Dec. 9, 2019. It is alleged that on Dec. 9, 2019, Zheng stole 21 vials of biological research and attempted to smuggle them out of the United States aboard a flight destined for China. Federal officers at Logan Airport discovered the vials hidden in a sock inside one of Zheng’s bags, and not properly packaged. It is alleged that initially, Zheng lied to officers about the contents of his luggage, but later admitted he had stolen the vials from a lab at Beth Israel. Zheng stated that he intended to bring the vials to China to use them to conduct research in his own laboratory and publish the results under his own name.

The charge of making false, fictitious and fraudulent statements provides for a sentence of up to five years in prison, three years of supervised release and a fine of $250,000. The charge of visa fraud provides for a sentence of up to 10 years in prison, three years of supervised release and a fine of $250,000. The charge of acting as an agent of a foreign government provides for a sentence of up to 10 years in prison, three years of supervised release and a fine of $250,000. The charge of conspiracy provides for a sentence of up to five years in prison, three years of supervised release and a fine of $250,000. The charge of smuggling goods from the United States provides for a sentence of up to 10 years in prison, three years of supervised release and a fine of $250,000. Sentences are imposed by a federal district court judge based upon the U.S. Sentencing Guidelines and other statutory factors.

Assistant Attorney General for National Security John C. Demers, United States Attorney Andrew E. Lelling; Special Agent in Charge of the FBI Boston Field Division Joseph R. Bonavolonta; Michael Denning, Director of Field Operations, U.S. Customs and Border Protection, Boston Field Office; Leigh-Alistair Barzey, Special Agent in Charge of the Defense Criminal Investigative Service, Northeast Field Office; Philip Coyne, Special Agent in Charge of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Office of Inspector General; and William Higgins, Special Agent in Charge of the U.S. Department of Commerce, Office of Export Enforcement, Boston Field Office made the announcement. Assistant U.S. Attorneys B. Stephanie Siegmann, Jason Casey and Benjamin Tolkoff of Lelling’s National Security Unit are prosecuting these cases with the assistance of trial attorneys William Mackie and David Aaron at the National Security Division’s Counterintelligence and Export Control Section.

The details contained in the charging documents are allegations. The defendants are presumed innocent unless and until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law.

These case are part of the Department of Justice’s China Initiative, which reflects the strategic priority of countering Chinese national security threats and reinforces the President’s overall national security strategy. In addition to identifying and prosecuting those engaged in trade secret theft, hacking and economic espionage, the initiative will increase efforts to protect our critical infrastructure against external threats including foreign direct investment, supply chain threats and the foreign agents seeking to influence the American public and policymakers without proper registration.https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/harva...-china-related

[oldel]

LOL, China isn't good and they use subterfuge, spying and try to buy off poorer nations etc.

But what you posted was a hell of a lot of words to say nothing about China spreading covid19 on purpose unless it was an accident after stealing from a USA hospital cancer ward (I doubt they had covid19).
If you want to go into conspiracy theories China already experienced SARS, not the USA.

E: Just so you know, SARS is SARS-CoV and covid19 is SARS-CoV-2 (the 'id' in covid is id, '19' for the year it started. So SARS is corona virus, covid 19 is SARS corona virus 2 id:2019).

They're 86% the same but covid 19 is a mutant that is more virulent and seems to transmit easier - so it might last longer outside a host - like on a hard surface, or it might be more resistant to disinfectants and our immune systems.
E: or it might live in infected people longer before they show symptoms, so they have longer to spread it before feeling unwell - I strongly believe that is the case because people have it with minor symptoms and many suddenly drop dead after 1-2 days - Apparently this is how the younger and healthier people have died recently.

I guess I'm saying a lock down is good, don't trust people that seem healthy right now.

[superyob]

Originally Posted by oldel

That wasn't specific to Chinese shoppers and tourists. Northern Italy is now full of Chinese workers, the amount of them there has been growing for 10 years because they work there making all the "made in Italy" fashions, leather and pottery etc which was my point.

The government was trying to cool the racism there because of the workers, not the shoppers.
First google link for hug a chinese: https://kprcradio.iheart.com/feature...a-chinese-day/

Workers!

If the cruise lines, Italian industry and where ever else wasn't being typical in their behaviour (import the cheapest labour and don't pay the local labour rate or hire locals) then this virus wouldn't have got spread so much. Western employers choices is the cause for the spread of this virus.

As I mentioned before, the only difference between covid19 and SARS is in the past 15 or so years western companies have been increasingly reliant on cheap goods AND imported labour from China. If that wasn't the case this wouldn't have spread more than SARS in 2002 (plenty of rich Chinese shoppers and tourists back then as well.) It's only the spreading of the Chinese workforce that has changed since.
E: You could casually google right now and find a lot of articles from between 2010 and 2018 remarking on the increasing numbers of Chinese working on cruise ships or in northern Italy between those years because it was newsworthy as it was happening.
That's why the West has SARS 2.0

What 'racism'???

[oldel]

I was paraphrasing this guy directly. Good job, nice hunt.

Originally Posted by XR Martin

The government there encouraged the locals to hug a Chinese at the start of the outbreak because they were worried about potential racism.
February 1st was hug a Chinese day...
8 weeks later there's 10000 dead.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by oldel

That wasn't specific to Chinese shoppers and tourists. Northern Italy is now full of Chinese workers, the amount of them there has been growing for 10 years because they work there making all the "made in Italy" fashions, leather and pottery etc which was my point.

The government was trying to cool the racism there because of the workers, not the shoppers.
First google link for hug a chinese: https://kprcradio.iheart.com/feature...a-chinese-day/

Workers!

If the cruise lines, Italian industry and where ever else wasn't being typical in their behaviour (import the cheapest labour and don't pay the local labour rate or hire locals) then this virus wouldn't have got spread so much. Western employers choices is the cause for the spread of this virus.

As I mentioned before, the only difference between covid19 and SARS is in the past 15 or so years western companies have been increasingly reliant on cheap goods AND imported labour from China. If that wasn't the case this wouldn't have spread more than SARS in 2002 (plenty of rich Chinese shoppers and tourists back then as well.) It's only the spreading of the Chinese workforce that has changed since.
E: You could casually google right now and find a lot of articles from between 2010 and 2018 remarking on the increasing numbers of Chinese working on cruise ships or in northern Italy between those years because it was newsworthy as it was happening.
That's why the West has SARS 2.0

If the CCP hadn't suppressed and lied about the outbreak and silence and arrest those who were reporting the severity of the outbreak in December 19, 90% of the outbreak could have been prevented.

That you blame Westerners for CCP policy is disgraceful.

[oldel]

I don't like China for their politics any more than you. But SARS 2.0 broke out in China and western employers took it out of China.

Do you seriously think that anything would be different if the West was warned? Hell no, profits are above everything in a normal economic climate. I even remember reading warnings of a new epidemic and most of the reaction was like 'chicken little is saying the sky is going to fall again'.
I remember the media saying oh look they said that about h1n1, sars, ebola, swine flu etc, as if... Early warners were mocked because everyone felt bulletproof by not being affected by previous epidemics.
Even your boy Trump was saying it's a great hoax.

E: Nothing would have changed unless China shut it's borders (the west would have vilified that move and attacked China for sure if they did that. What would Iran do, would Trump get real ****ed off and not believed them that the sh!t is real?) Would both Iran and Trump get extra pssed off at each other and start a war which they were on the road to anyway before cov-2 hit?

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by oldel

I don't like China for their politics any more than you. But SARS 2.0 broke out in China and western employers took it out of China.

Thats one way to look at it. Another way is a deliberate cover up to suppress information regarding the severity of the outbreak. It's said that 90% of the world outbreak could have been prevented if the regime told the truth and reached out for help.

It's the woke left with their 'anti-racism' policies that prevented countries like Italy, USA and AUS from closing their borders earlier.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by XR Martin

It was also due to rich Chinese flying direct from Wuhan to Northern Italy to shop. The government there encouraged the locals to hug a Chinese at the start of the outbreak because they were worried about potential racism.
February 1st was hug a Chinese day...
8 weeks later there's 10000 dead.

That's a heavy price to pay for 'wokeness'. Wasn't the Andrews government in Police State Victoria swinging the Chinese flag recently? How'd that virtue signalling go? Isn't a lockdown there almost imminent?

[oldel]

Originally Posted by Romulus

Another way is a deliberate cover up to suppress information regarding the severity of the outbreak.

Like Trump does and continues to do?
He could help the American people but prefers to cover it up, prescribed chloroquine via tweet which a few people have died from.
People asked him for ventilators, NY said they need thousands, Trump tweeted to ford and GM to make them, they gave him a quote of a billion or something to supply the USA, he said too expensive. He went back to NY and said word to the effect of every time I've been in a hospital they only have 2, why do you need so many, I don't want to be stuck with a bill for so many because you don't need that many.

He's shirking every responsibility, and is so dumb he can't read that Italians are dying in hallways for lack of ventilators.
I guess he's trying to cover up and suppress information regarding the severity of the outbreak in the USA.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by oldel

Like Trump does and continues to do?
He could help the American people but prefers to cover it up, prescribed chloroquine via tweet which a few people have died from.
People asked him for ventilators, NY said they need thousands, Trump tweeted to ford and GM to make them, they gave him a quote of a billion or something to supply the USA, he said too expensive. He went back to NY and said word to the effect of every time I've been in a hospital they only have 2, why do you need so many, I don't want to be stuck with a bill for so many because you don't need that many.

He's shirking every responsibility, and is so dumb he can't read that Italians are dying in hallways for lack of ventilators.
I guess he's trying to cover up and suppress information regarding the severity of the outbreak in the USA.

Bloke, stop regurgitating CNN and MSNBC garbage. If you watched his hour to hour and a half updates, which fake news CNN and MSLSD stopped airing, you’d actually get some facts.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[oldel]

Ha Ha, you're good value for money in the entertainment stakes. This is Trump, everything he thinks he puts up on twitter, it's all there so you can't argue against what the mainstream media report as fake news. They don't have to make any of his dumb stuff up. Australia doesn't even have cnn and msnbc (or at least not on FTA and I certainly don't check them online or have cable), for you to mention them means your parroting lines like a puppet.

You need to get out of conspiracy theorys for your own mental health, forget OAN and fox and remember you're australian and trump is not your saviour.

[randel]

Originally Posted by oldel

......Hell no, profits are above everything in a normal economic climate......

The same as price is above everything else in normal day to day life... we as consumers are as much to blame... what can I get, and how cheap can I get it.....

Everyone wants the latest iPhone/ gadget as cheap as possible, but who here wants to work like a chinese labourer?

Yes business is at fault, but so are consumers..

[prydey]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

As someone said on the radio yesterday, when this is all over people will actually appreciate the things which we've taken for granted for so long.
.

If you believe that you are very naive.

This has highlighted just how selfish society is, whether it be by panic buying or thinking the rules don't apply to them.

When this is over society could actually be worse. There may be a small difference initially but within weeks things will be no different to before.

[Citroënbender]

I’m sort of keen to get the bug and recover.

Not for any reasons of one-upmanship but because (a.) I should be a good candidate for full recovery and (b.) as it seems relapse/reinfection is not really known, I can be more useful without the risk continuing over my head.

[XByoot]

Originally Posted by prydey

If you believe that you are very naive.

This has highlighted just how selfish society is, whether it be by panic buying or thinking the rules don't apply to them.

When this is over society could actually be worse. There may be a small difference initially but within weeks things will be no different to before.

Sad but true. Not only selfish but stupid. There are lots of good people out there too but sadly these traits are prevalent in the modern world.

[FairmontGS]

Interesting that CIA and other security agencies warned Trump back in January and he did nothing.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/20/p...rus/index.html

[superyob]

Originally Posted by XByoot

Sad but true. Not only selfish but stupid. There are lots of good people out there too but sadly these traits are prevalent in the modern world.

I think this is the history of humanity since Adam and Eve. I would still rather live in this current period of history than many past eras. I would however love to go back to the 70s.

Does anybody have a time machine I can borrow? I promise I'll bring it back...

Maybe...

[cheap]

Bugger, first it was Eurovision and now The Logies have also been cancelled.