FG X, The Last EVER Falcon - Picture & Discussion Thread - Page 283

NAK302 · 27-08-2014, 07:49 AM

seeing the xr8 in pics AND it having the 335 is making me rethink buying a Mustang. what a terrible dilemma

Walt Kowalski · 27-08-2014, 07:50 AM

Am I the only one who doesn't care if it's a driveline issue stopping production of the best Aussie ute ever?

There are plenty of tuned big torque FPV Coyote utes out there. One of my pit crew has one that is MENTAL. Manual. And lowered. And has over 100,000 HOON driving on clock.

I'd take it to Bosnjak Engineering for their in stock Ford ute diff upgrade if I have to when the issue arises.

If you don't want to build it how about announcing a 2015 delayed release providing you get X orders. Whatever makes it viable. 2300Kg a must.

Enthusiasts know that if not enough orders then no build. It would show that Ford listens. Which is the opposite of the market impression.

Walt Kowalski · 27-08-2014, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Its got nothing to do with compliance. The 335 motor has never been fitted to a UTE because it did not pass durability testing. Further more they never engineered the 315 let alone a 335 in a ute to take Brembos with the stability program.

Is be happy with a 315 Ute providing it had 2300Kg tow rating.

Nikked · 27-08-2014, 07:54 AM

So you're saying Ford should build utes that could knowingly have driveline issues and its ok because the owner can get a aftermarket diff upgrade?

Walt Kowalski · 27-08-2014, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

The reason for the ute not getting the full 335 power was explained in the Boss 5.0 forum area, directly from the powertrain engineer responsible for that engine. Flexing of the axle and the way the 5.0 SC produces its torque. They had a solution for it but time and money run out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by V8UTE

Personally I would have been more than happy with the 315 in the ute. It would still be a XR8 Ute which I am guessing is what the Falcon ute guys are wanting. I know it's been said that V8 utes havn't been selling but this last Falcon offering a XR8 may have seen better sales. It's still offering the Ford faithful what some are wanting too.
I know I'm wasting my time but ...

Me too.

FGX-302 · 27-08-2014, 07:57 AM

FGX FPV n beyond hmmmmm... If only.. Lot of what if's and could of's with our home grown heroes n their downfalls.. Next 5-10 years of technology rolling through FPV n HSV would have been good to see. Not to be.. I'm thinking a 2016 limited ed of XR8 has gotta be on the cards. Be good to be in the know

Walt Kowalski · 27-08-2014, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikked

So you're saying Ford should build utes that could knowingly have driveline issues and its ok because the owner can get a aftermarket diff upgrade?

No. I'm saying that Ford should build a 315 Ute with 2300Kg tow rating (first time ever) providing they get enough orders to make it viable.

There are plenty of upgraded 315 utes punching big numbers with high kilometres but if it becomes a problem down the track Bosnjak Engineering have a solution so the utes will run forever.

Many existing XR6T utes and F6 utes have been fitted with the Bosnjak upgrade so it's not an issue limited to Coyotes.

Alan D Segal · 27-08-2014, 08:23 AM

Maybe Bosnjak should be charged for advertising on this page? I hope they're paying you walt!

**Polyal** · 27-08-2014, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikked

So you're saying Ford should build utes that could knowingly have driveline issues and its ok because the owner can get a aftermarket diff upgrade?

Im still saying Ford have already done it and the F6 Ute seemed to be just fine.

..other than perhaps not selling.

I accept if the business case wasnt there, if the 335 Ute needed some enviro or other BS reason to be certified, dont fathom the rear end being an issue though.

FGX335 · 27-08-2014, 09:33 AM

At the end of the day, they decided not to offer one, either because they didn't think it would sell, wouldn't be cost effective with warranties, or because they just didn't want to. Nothing to stop you from popping the 335 in from a wrecked XR8 in the future though...

FGX335 · 27-08-2014, 09:34 AM

As a side note, surely the $20K that was being asked for the 335 from wreckers will be coming down with the XR8 coming along?

Smoke Pursuit · 27-08-2014, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

Im still saying Ford have already done it and the F6 Ute seemed to be just fine.

..other than perhaps not selling.

I accept if the business case wasnt there, if the 335 Ute needed some enviro or other BS reason to be certified, dont fathom the rear end being an issue though.

So an engineer from FPV openly says the 335 was not put in the ute due to rear end issues, yet you still wont accept it.

Man oh man this forum is getting hard.

"The weak link is the rear suspension and the change to pinion angles when loaded/or lowered. On those conditions the front pinion of the diff raises up and gets the uni joints outside there normal range. Add in more hp. And it's not a good setup.
I asked if cal tracks will fix that. Yes they will, but will make the car extremely harsh. They did some experimenting with control rods used in the RTV models but time and money were against them"

**Polyal** · 27-08-2014, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DASH GT

So an engineer from FPV openly says the 335 was not put in the ute due to rear end issues, yet you still wont accept it.

Man oh man this forum is getting hard.

"The weak link is the rear suspension and the change to pinion angles when loaded/or lowered. On those conditions the front pinion of the diff raises up and gets the uni joints outside there normal range. Add in more hp. And it's not a good setup.
I asked if cal tracks will fix that. Yes they will, but will make the car extremely harsh. They did some experimenting with control rods used in the RTV models but time and money were against them"

Stated where? Chinese whispers isnt a great source. I think the hard bit has been getting an honest answer about the 310 vs 335 ute difference.

Im ok with letting it go (as the answer doesnt make any difference), it just seems to not add up when on paper there is next to no difference unless its got something to do with that "magical transient boost" the 335 gets. Happy to move on.

Cashie · 27-08-2014, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DASH GT

So an engineer from FPV openly says the 335 was not put in the ute due to rear end issues, yet you still wont accept it.

Man oh man this forum is getting hard.

"The weak link is the rear suspension and the change to pinion angles when loaded/or lowered. On those conditions the front pinion of the diff raises up and gets the uni joints outside there normal range. Add in more hp. And it's not a good setup.
I asked if cal tracks will fix that. Yes they will, but will make the car extremely harsh. They did some experimenting with control rods used in the RTV models but time and money were against them"

Agree Dash.
This has been a well known Ute issue and limitation (made worse when lowered)... Maybe if FPV were still around they may have thrown some funds at the ute rear end, though I doubt it.

Smoke Pursuit · 27-08-2014, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

Stated where? Chinese whispers isnt a great source. I think the hard bit has been getting an honest answer about the 310 vs 335 ute difference.

Im ok with letting it go (as the answer doesnt make any difference), it just seems to not add up when on paper there is next to no difference unless its got something to do with that "magical transient boost" the 335 gets. Happy to move on.

Its come from Bernie Quinn himself (do you even know who he is?)

The same people were blowing diffs out of F6 Turbos back in 2003 on a daily basis. You dont understand what Ford put these cars through before they sign them off, if a car cant handle their testing they either beef it up or scrap it and go in another direction.

Yes plenty of people mod their cars and get away with it, but do they drive them at full tilt on 24 hour shifts until they break? Typically not. Ford do when they test a vehicle, they break them. They work backwards and engineer them till they cant break them under specific conditions. If they didn't do this and put a car out that broke (and wasn't fixable) could you imagine the drama? You only have to look at the issues with the F6 at launch and the clutch.

FPV would not have walked away from the Super Pursuit program unless they couldn't make it work, they had everything there, it was just a matter of bolting it altogether. The Super Pursuit was the highest selling FPV ute at the time the 5.0l was released, so im pretty sure its not a decision that was taken lightly.

Don't use brochure torque ratings / kw ratings to compare either.

Don't forget a GS is only good for between 270 - 280 rwkw (similar to an F6) where as a GT is good for up to 330 rwkw.

This is what was limiting FPV.

v8der · 27-08-2014, 11:15 AM

If it looks like Ford will make a souped up limited edition XR8 as a final send off in 2016, I may look at upgrading the AU3 XR8

Smoke Pursuit · 27-08-2014, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by v8der

If it looks like Ford will make a souped up limited edition XR8 as a final send off in 2016, I may look at upgrading the AU3 XR8

The XR8 is already a GT R Spec in different clothing. How much more could you want

.

Its going to be a gang buster car!

No wonder Holdon is upping the ante with the SS V Redline and putting the Clubsport motor in it.

FGX-302 · 27-08-2014, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GT-0733

seeing the xr8 in pics AND it having the 335 is making me rethink buying a Mustang. what a terrible dilemma

Assuming they are a similar price what does the mustang have over the falcon? Not having a go at your views mate just a legit question. In my opinion the falcon is an easy winner. 5seats, big boot space, our 5.0 is blown with potential for so much more as does the I6T at minimal expense. Great refreshed look with latest ford tech (sync2)..Unless 2 doors are your thing I struggle to find anything better about the mustang. Guess we'll have a better indication when they go head to head from factory for the first time here in AUS... Can't wait!!!!! Ps can't imagine the mustangs power figures being so understated like the falcons force fed donks.

v8der · 27-08-2014, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DASH GT

The XR8 is already a GT R Spec in different clothing. How much more could you want

.

Its going to be a gang buster car!

No wonder Holdon is upping the ante with the SS V Redline and putting the Clubsport motor in it.

I know what ur saying ! The new XR8 looks the business.

It's just that 2016 is looking good for me personally to make an upgrade to my vehicle, and since this is when (presumably) Ford will be closing up shop they may release a "final" Falcon as a send off which a few extra goodies..

**MercurySilver** · 27-08-2014, 11:36 AM

so do we actually have any def pics and stats yet?
this thread is getting painful to follow with no info
all ive seen is the *** end that looks like a jag

Smoke Pursuit · 27-08-2014, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by v8der

I know what ur saying ! The new XR8 looks the business.

It's just that 2016 is looking good for me personally to make an upgrade to my vehicle, and since this is when (presumably) Ford will be closing up shop they may release a "final" Falcon as a send off which a few extra goodies..

Thats if they have any XR8 left come mid / late 2016.

The way they are talking they will be sold out.

**Polyal** · 27-08-2014, 11:44 AM

Agreed brochure readings are far from a bible but what else do plebs have to go on with? So to say the 335 is under could also mean the F6 is aswell (which is probably the case). In retrospec then yes the 335 is a big enough jump to cause problems I can acknowledge that. But since the F6 lived up until recently, and there would be a safety factor in the development of it then I would have thought the 335 would still be within that limit unless it was borderline with the F6 already.

I certainly wasnt entertaining the thought of what people modding their cars can do or get away with.

But dont bother resorting to name dropping though since I did work for/with them at the PG so yeah Ive got a fair idea on the processes that are involved and what requirements are on them.

Smoke Pursuit · 27-08-2014, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

Agreed brochure readings are far from a bible but what else do plebs have to go on with? So to say the 335 is under could also mean the F6 is aswell (which is probably the case). In retrospec then yes the 335 is a big enough jump to cause problems I can acknowledge that. But since the F6 lived up until recently, and there would be a safety factor in the development of it then I would have thought the 335 would still be within that limit unless it was borderline with the F6 already.

I certainly wasnt entertaining the thought of what people modding their cars can do or get away with.

But dont bother resorting to name dropping though since I did work for/with them at the PG so yeah Ive got a fair idea on the processes that are involved and what requirements are on them.

You should know better if you worked there.

As for the F6 it only dynos up at around 280 rwkw. Thats a far cry from 330 rwkw that the GT pushes out on a dyno. So for you to say there is next to no difference is silly.

My Pursuit struggles to get traction with the live rear axel setup, and i know a few guys that have broken tailshafts on F6's and GS's. So to think that its any other reason other then the rear end is a bit silly when its a known problem internally and externally.

Utes have always come second to sedans, as per why we have no XR8 ute in the new model. They don't have enough motors or gearboxes to accommodate everyone so the Ute missed out.

**Polyal** · 27-08-2014, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DASH GT

You should know better if you worked there.

As for the F6 it only dynos up at around 280 rwkw. Thats a far cry from 330 rwkw that the GT pushes out on a dyno.

My Pursuit struggles to get traction with the live rear axel setup, and i know a few guys that have broken tailshafts on F6's and GS's. So to think that its any other reason other then the rear end is a bit silly when its a known problem internally and externally.

Utes have always come second to sedans, as per why we have no XR8 ute in the new model. They don't have enough motors or gearboxes to accommodate everyone so the Ute missed out.

kws is one thing, Nm's is another too. I havent seen a F6 vs 335 back to back yet.

It is funny when you think if they did the work for the GTF Ute and the demand is there for the FGX Ute then why wouldnt they just order more stock?

I remember back when we were discussing the XR8 coming back at all that XR8 utes actually sold in decent numbers! Reckon it would outsell the XR6T ute as people would be interested in the last V8 ute.

Smoke Pursuit · 27-08-2014, 12:00 PM

XR8 ute was a better seller then sedan at the end. But I guess they are trying to kill 2 birds with the one stone on this car. XR8 / GT.

As for ordering more parts its the gearboxes and motors that are limiting them.

Its a sad time.

richo77 · 27-08-2014, 12:05 PM

Dash, do you know how many XR8's will likely be built?

FGX-302 · 27-08-2014, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Thats if they have any XR8 left come mid / late 2016.

The way they are talking they will be sold out.

The rumour running is there are 2500 autos reserved for XR8 n XR6T. Is there any idea around of how many V8's are available? Can see those wanting to purchase 2016's paying a bit more if numbers dry up.

HO 3 · 27-08-2014, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by v8der

I know what ur saying ! The new XR8 looks the business.

It's just that 2016 is looking good for me personally to make an upgrade to my vehicle, and since this is when (presumably) Ford will be closing up shop they may release a "final" Falcon as a send off which a few extra goodies..

Personally I'd make the jump sooner rather than later...........I think there will be strong demand for a 60k wolf in sheeps clothing XR8. Being the last Ford Australia manufactured V8 Falcon will make it an important motor car for many to own and because it will represent good bang for buck it will be popular with tune houses and modders alike I suspect

Cheers Mick

richo77 · 27-08-2014, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mytchal86

The rumour running is there are 2500 autos reserved for XR8 n XR6T. Is there any idea around of how many V8's are available? Can see those wanting to purchase 2016's paying a bit more if numbers dry up.

This is my concern too. I'll be ready to buy in August next year but by the sounds of those numbers I might be too late.

**fordomatic** · 27-08-2014, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HO 3

Personally I'd make the jump sooner rather than later...........I think there will be strong demand for a 60k wolf in sheeps clothing XR8.

If they do price them at 60k i dont think they will sell as many as they think. I know the average price for an FG GT was 64-66 drive away. I know i wouldn't pay 60k for just an XR8, 50k on the other hand......