Covid 19 -

[Sprintey]

https://www.theage.com.au/national/k...04-p56rob.html

Hat tip to MM, well done on protecting WA's people. With no virus, your economy can zoom along. Hopefully Vic can get rid of it once more.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

I'm a big fan of MM. Its got nothing to do with party politics, I just like how he calls it straight, no beating around the bush, marketing spin or weasel words. He is doing exactly the right thing by his constituents with these quick and firm decisions. In fact I think he is doing the right thing by the country as a whole. WA's economy is churning along, and they are bringing in a surplus whereas other states are haemorrhaging deficits.

Lecturing is when you stand on your ivory tower criticising every other premier for taking steps to protect their residents when it is your inaction causing it. Just my opinion.

C,mon take away the mines WA would be dead in the water with their economy!
He is no different to his counterpart in QLD.... arrogance at their best.
Sorry just my rant on those two....

[Mr_G6ET]

Originally Posted by Officemanager

C,mon take away the mines WA would be dead in the water with their economy!
He is no different to his counterpart in QLD.... arrogance at their best.
Sorry just my rant on those two....

Umm, the mines are real, do you all know the gas output here ?
Sure iron ore is a 'good ****' thing but not only what we do here

[cs123]

Originally Posted by Mr_G6ET

I hear you, it is a hard (hard) situation. He is that half back that has a good position ?
Not sure he will scamper away, alone maybe but he has backing of us in the WA bubble

The things he is dealing with are on a completely different scale to what NSW and Victoria are dealing with.

For sure he is doing a good job.

That is not to say that Glady's and Dan are doing bad jobs. Their job is orders or magnitude harder that WA. They have such bigger populations and much higher population densities. They also have tightly coupled states along the East coast. Closing borders is dramatic for Vic, QLD and NSW.

To offer advice by press release and public statements lacks class. But one thing is for sure, we have had plenty of politicking in the last year.

[Mr_G6ET]

Originally Posted by cs123

The things he is dealing with are on a completely different scale to what NSW and Victoria are dealing with.

For sure he is doing a good job.

That is not to say that Glady's and Dan are doing bad jobs. Their job is orders or magnitude harder that WA. They have such bigger populations and much higher population densities. They also have tightly coupled states along the East coast. Closing borders is dramatic for Vic, QLD and NSW.

To offer advice by press release and public statements lacks class. But one thing is for sure, we have had plenty of politicking in the last year.

Full support, he can be that jerk in half back because we don't have the density here

[cs123]

Originally Posted by Mr_G6ET

Full support, he can be that jerk in half back because we don't have the density here

Yes, good one him and you

No one else cares to hear him carry on....

That was the point.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by Mr_G6ET

Umm, the mines are real, do you all know the gas output here ?
Sure iron ore is a 'good ****' thing but not only what we do here

Yeah I know what goes on in your state as I have been there numerous times in many years..... don't take my comment personally if that is what you are doing.
Cheers.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by cs123

To offer advice by press release and public statements lacks class. But one thing is for sure, we have had plenty of politicking in the last year.

The guy is a flat out moron and nothing that spills from his mouth should be taken seriously.

WA has offered assistance? How so? Want to start taking on some overseas arrivals so we can get Aussies home quicker?

Nah...just close the borders at a drop at a hat and pretend that means you are doing something.

[FairmontGS]

2021 F1 Australian GP set to be postponed amid COVID restrictions

The opening round of the 2021 Formula 1 season in Australia is set to be postponed, Autosport has learned.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/15...o-be-postponed

Originally Posted by cs123

What's the latest on the vaccine. Does it actually stop you becoming infected or just the progression of the illness?

If it's the later how will that work? They can protect the aged/ill and let it rip though the rest of the population?

My layman understanding of it is that vaccination doesn't stop you from becoming infected with the virus but seeing as your body knows how to fight it off, it prevents progression into the disease so you're less likely to die from it.
So like an intruder in your house, the bad guy might be able to open your front door but there's a machine gun waiting for him on the other side so he's probably not going to get real far.

And there is no "letting it rip through the rest of the population", at least as far as our country is concerned. Medical professionals have already proven that most people who contract covid are left with heart damage even if they only had mild symptoms. There's speculation on what this might mean for their life expectancy but so far it's too soon to tell, not even including the damage to the other organs.

I've done my part to keep others safe but I don't really want to be thrown under the bus in order to further guarantee the now-vulnerable elderly population who have already lived a full life during the greatest economic conditions the country ever saw.
Younger generations have sacrificed enough in 2020 to keep the vulnerable safe, let's not also ask them to cop permanent organ damage and possibly shortened life expectancy while also being saddled with the responsibility of having to rebuild the country's economy over the course of their lives and not even getting to enjoy their shortened lifespan with reasonable prosperity.

[cs123]

Originally Posted by leesa

My layman understanding of it is that vaccination doesn't stop you from becoming infected with the virus but seeing as your body knows how to fight it off, it prevents progression into the disease so you're less likely to die from it.
So like an intruder in your house, the bad guy might be able to open your front door but there's a machine gun waiting for him on the other side so he's probably not going to get real far.

And there is no "letting it rip through the rest of the population", at least as far as our country is concerned. Medical professionals have already proven that most people who contract covid are left with heart damage even if they only had mild symptoms. There's speculation on what this might mean for their life expectancy but so far it's too soon to tell, not even including the damage to the other organs.

I've done my part to keep others safe but I don't really want to be thrown under the bus in order to further guarantee the now-vulnerable elderly population who have already lived a full life during the greatest economic conditions the country ever saw.
Younger generations have sacrificed enough in 2020 to keep the vulnerable safe, let's not also ask them to cop permanent organ damage and possibly shortened life expectancy while also being saddled with the responsibility of having to rebuild the country's economy over the course of their lives and not even getting to enjoy their shortened lifespan with reasonable prosperity.

I suppose that is what my question was. If it stops you getting seriously ill, then it is assumed that the virus will propagate through the population and everyone will catch it eventually, just that those vaccinated will not get seriously ill... so anyone who isn't vaccinated is at risk?

Regular vaccines stop the virus propagating as they stop people being infected.

Interesting year ahead if that is the case

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by leesa

My layman understanding of it is that vaccination doesn't stop you from becoming infected with the virus but seeing as your body knows how to fight it off, it prevents progression into the disease so you're less likely to die from it.
So like an intruder in your house, the bad guy might be able to open your front door but there's a machine gun waiting for him on the other side so he's probably not going to get real far.

And there is no "letting it rip through the rest of the population", at least as far as our country is concerned. Medical professionals have already proven that most people who contract covid are left with heart damage even if they only had mild symptoms. There's speculation on what this might mean for their life expectancy but so far it's too soon to tell, not even including the damage to the other organs.

I've done my part to keep others safe but I don't really want to be thrown under the bus in order to further guarantee the now-vulnerable elderly population who have already lived a full life during the greatest economic conditions the country ever saw.
Younger generations have sacrificed enough in 2020 to keep the vulnerable safe, let's not also ask them to cop permanent organ damage and possibly shortened life expectancy while also being saddled with the responsibility of having to rebuild the country's economy over the course of their lives and not even getting to enjoy their shortened lifespan with reasonable prosperity.

“Most people” have heart damage after covid? How about providing proof other than the sky is falling dramatic statements.

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

“Most people” have heart damage after covid? How about providing proof other than the sky is falling dramatic statements.

Just google it, I'm not going to spoon-feed you. If by this stage you haven't heard medical people talk what covid is doing to the body then I'm not sure you'll agree with any proof that I provide.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by leesa

Just google it, I'm not going to spoon-feed you. If by this stage you haven't heard medical people talk what covid is doing to the body then I'm not sure you'll agree with any proof that I provide.

Of the millions of cases worldwide, how many have had testing of heart capacity and function after they've recovered?

Of those who have died, either from or with, how many were autopsied?

Scaremongering never works. It almost always has the opposite effect.

Much better to just use actual facts. 'Most people' is not facts. That's using language to make the situation seem worse to try to create compliance. It just doesn't work.

[russellw]

Data valid as at 00:00 GMT January 4th, 2021.

Note: As not all Australian States report at the same time, the data below is based on the previous full day reporting.

21 new cases for Australia and no deaths so the CMR is 3.189%. NSW recorded 7 cases, Queensland 5, Victoria & SA recorded 4 each while WA & NT had 1 case each.

No new cases and no deaths for NZ so CMR is 1.146% and active cases 72.

The UK had a new record 58,474 cases yesterday and 407 deaths.

Just over 241k new cases in the USA yesterday and 1,447 deaths sees CMR fall to 1.702% and active cases at 39.4% with the raw numbers rising and now over 8.3M. Note that the USA is actually minus one day due to time differences.

Other notable points: (weekend reporting):
Global cases pass 86M with the last 1M in 1 day;
The USA completes 259M, India 175M, UK 56M, Italy 27M, Turkey 25M, Canada 14M and the Netherlands 6M tests.

Only -
Nigeria (1,271);
Dominican Republic (2,043) - the previous high on 26/7;
Ireland (6,110) - 23% above the high yesterday; and
the UK (58,474)

... recorded new daily highs; those in blue for the second consecutive day and those in red for a third or more consecutive day.

Originally Posted by prydey

Of the millions of cases worldwide, how many have had testing of heart capacity and function after they've recovered?

In studies, sample sizes are a thing.

Of those who have died, either from or with, how many were autopsied?

They have checked people who were otherwise healthy, who had no history of heart problems, who contracted covid, who had mild symptoms, who died from things other than covid and who showed damage to the heart that couldn't be explained by conditions other than them having covid. In apparently significant enough numbers for them to be mentioned in their studies to say that otherwise healthy people with mild cases are being left with heart damage.

Scaremongering never works. It almost always has the opposite effect.

Much better to just use actual facts. 'Most people' is not facts. That's using language to make the situation seem worse to try to create compliance. It just doesn't work.

You can call it scaremongering if you like. I call it listening to the experts.
Ultimately it doesn't affect me whether you listen to them or not.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by leesa

In studies, sample sizes are a thing.



They have checked people who were otherwise healthy, who had no history of heart problems, who contracted covid, who had mild symptoms, who died from things other than covid and who showed damage to the heart that couldn't be explained by conditions other than them having covid. In apparently significant enough numbers for them to be mentioned in their studies to say that otherwise healthy people with mild cases are being left with heart damage.



You can call it scaremongering if you like. I call it listening to the experts.
Ultimately it doesn't affect me whether you listen to them or not.

no one is denying that some people are not recovering 100%

'most people' is just hyping it up. Why?

There have been a lot of 'experts' come out of the woodwork in the last year as well. Were they all in agreement on all things?

Just tone it down a touch instead of coming across all aggressive and acting like anyone who doesn't lock themselves away is going to die.

[Tickford.]

Originally Posted by prydey

Of the millions of cases worldwide, how many have had testing of heart capacity and function after they've recovered?

This is true. Because they should have tested ALL of the 61,000,000+ who have 'recovered' so far for heart (or lung, kidney, etc, etc) issues. That way, they probably would've found much MORE evidence than currently available of damage to vital organs. Why haven't they done this?

Originally Posted by prydey

Of those who have died, either from or with, how many were autopsied?

This is also true. Because if they had autopsied ALL of the 1,859,000+ who died so far - they would've found much MORE evidence of vital organ damage.


.. Seriously!?? As if hospitals/medical facilities, doctors, surgeons and nurses - worldwide - that are capable of doing such experiments, haven't got their hands full at the moment!! Yet alone find the time and the facilities to conduct such experiments with Covid patients on a huge scale!??? If "they" managed to even test 1% of those figures above, they would have done very well.

[Charliewool]

Originally Posted by Tickford.

This is true. Because they should have tested ALL of the 61,000,000+ who have 'recovered' so far for heart (or lung, kidney, etc, etc) issues. That way, they probably would've found much MORE evidence than currently available of damage to vital organs. Why haven't they done this?


This is also true. Because if they had autopsied ALL of the 1,859,000+ who died so far - they would've found much MORE evidence of vital organ damage.


.. Seriously!?? As if hospitals/medical facilities, doctors, surgeons and nurses - worldwide - that are capable of doing such experiments, haven't got their hands full at the moment!! Yet alone find the time and the facilities to conduct such experiments with Covid patients on a huge scale!??? If "they" managed to even test 1% of those figures above, they would have done very well.

Both you guys are much better amusement in the F1 or Supercar V8 area!
Sick to the back teeth of you “would be feckin experts” attempting to ram your opinions down our throats!....

[Metdevil]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

“Most people” have heart damage after covid? How about providing proof other than the sky is falling dramatic statements.

Originally Posted by leesa

Just google it, I'm not going to spoon-feed you. If by this stage you haven't heard medical people talk what covid is doing to the body then I'm not sure you'll agree with any proof that I provide.

I think this is the study you guys were looking for, really easy to find on Google.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2768916

In this cohort study including 100 patients recently recovered from COVID-19 identified from a COVID-19 test center, cardiac magnetic resonance imaging revealed cardiac involvement in 78 patients (78%) and ongoing myocardial inflammation in 60 patients (60%), which was independent of preexisting conditions, severity and overall course of the acute illness, and the time from the original diagnosis.

Granted this particular sample size is not very large at all, but considering these results are independent of pre-existing conditions, it's still a significant finding.

tl;dr - 60% = 'most'

Like leesa said though, we have months and months of this data, if studies like these don't convince you that you don't want to spread this virus, then nothing will.
Meanwhile, we're not seeing too many links to studies from the anti-covid side of the camp...

[russellw]

We are not (as I've said before) going to get a definitive answer on the long term impact of COVID19 for some time to come.

Such studies require both the passage of time (for long term impacts) and exhaustive testing that is both time consuming and expensive.

Somewhat ironically, we might get our best answer following the recent deaths / collapses of 3 college athletes (2 football, 1 basketball) who had all recovered from COVID19 and all of whom suffered a cardiac failure while playing or training.

One of those colleges already had a conditioning program that captured players cardiac and respiratory fitness levels and they are now conducting post recovery tests to compare with the pre-COVID history for the athletes in their program. It's not a huge study as there are only about 700 athletes involved but you can be fairly sure that it will be detailed and provide a useful guide to the short term impacts, whatever they might be.

Personally, I think there is probably some impact in much the same way as a dose of pneumonia has long term impacts and I suspect in some cases those impacts will shorten the lifespan of the individual.

There are just so many questions at the moment but the answers will probably impact the way a lot of things are done in the future, particularly with sportspeople.

Questions are already being raised about how soon an athlete should return to training after a 'recovery'; what level of testing is needed to ensure they are healthy enough to resume strenuous activity and does the passage of time impact their ability and I expect a number of research programs to focus on that initially.

For the broader community it is more difficult. Without a solid set of 'before' data in terms of cardiac and respiratory condition, it's impossible to obtain hard scientific data on the severity of any impact. Yes, you can gather anecdotal data as well as empirical data about the 'after' condition but that doesn't much help with assessing the degree of impact.

Mind you, the US college athletic studies will provide a somewhat slanted view as well. We are talking about individuals who are already at peak fitness levels anyway and the impact may be greater or lesser because of that.

THIS article from the Mayo clinic is at least thought provoking if a little short on hard data. If you want some further reading then follow some of the links in the 'references' section of that article. I found this one and this UK one particularly interesting.

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by Metdevil

I think this is the study you guys were looking for, really easy to find on Google.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2768916



Granted this particular sample size is not very large at all, but considering these results are independent of pre-existing conditions, it's still a significant finding.

tl;dr - 60% = 'most'

Like leesa said though, we have months and months of this data, if studies like these don't convince you that you don't want to spread this virus, then nothing will.
Meanwhile, we're not seeing too many links to studies from the anti-covid side of the camp...

The poster said “even mild cases” . The cases in this study were recovered from hospitalisation with “severe acute respiratory syndrome” So nowhere near 60% of all covid sufferers. NSW has 1 person hospitalised out of 198 cases. So let’s call it at worst case 60% of less than 1% (6 in a 1000) are in danger of ongoing heart issues, which is about the same as severe influenza. So yes, scaremongering.

[FairmontGS]

Interesting factoid is no ICU cases at all thus far for NSW this micro-wave. Better treatment or just that the elderly and infirm have been better protected?

[russellw]

We looked at the models for the USA and UK yesterday so here are the models for global cases and mortalities.

The case graph shows a trend almost line-ball with the upper predictive line so an end of January global case total of ~104M.



The mortality model is also keeping pace with the upper predictive model and on target for ~2.2M by the end of this month.

[Metdevil]

Originally Posted by tweeked

The poster said “even mild cases” . The cases in this study were recovered from hospitalisation with “severe acute respiratory syndrome” So nowhere near 60% of all covid sufferers. NSW has 1 person hospitalised out of 198 cases. So let’s call it at worst case 60% of less than 1% (6 in a 1000) are in danger of ongoing heart issues, which is about the same as severe influenza. So yes, scaremongering.

He may have said that, I'm not going to back up or speak for him, all I'm doing is providing the study that he was clearly referring to.

In saying that however, only a third required hospitalisation.

Of the 100 patients recently recovered from COVID-19, 67 (67%) recovered at home, while 33 (33%) required hospitalization.

Our findings demonstrate that participants with a relative paucity of preexisting cardiovascular condition and with mostly home-based recovery had frequent cardiac inflammatory involvement, which was similar to the hospitalized subgroup with regards to severity and extent.

The study also notes 'independent of severity of the illness', 18 of them were even asymptomatic...

[DJR-351]

This is pretty sad in anyone's language....

Ambulance crews told not to transport patients who have little chance of survival

https://www.latimes.com/california/s...-surge-illness

The situation in Los Angeles County hospitals is so critical that ambulance crews have been advised to cut back on their use of oxygen and to not bring to hospitals patients who have virtually no chance of survival. Officials say they need to focus on patients with a greater chance of surviving.

The measures were taken as circumstances are expected to become even worse in coming weeks, when patients sickened over the Christmas holiday will need treatment, leaving officials desperate for ways to increase capacity and triage care to focus on the sickest patients.

Already, “many hospitals have reached a point of crisis and are having to make very tough decisions about patient care,” said Dr. Christina Ghaly, the L.A. County director of health services.

“The volume being seen in our hospitals still represents the cases that resulted from the Thanksgiving holiday,” she added during a briefing Monday. “We do not believe that we are yet seeing the cases that stemmed from the Christmas holiday. This, sadly, and the cases from the recent New Year’s holiday, is still before us, and hospitals across the region are doing everything they can to prepare.” more in link....

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

I can see how it could get a bit awkward if there is a well known outbreak at an "adult only" establishment and the hubby (or wife?) gets the phone call Not that one would use a credit card at those fine establishments.

Would be interesting in those establishments in Mitchell, ACT.

[Mr_G6ET]

Ambulance crews told not to transport patients who have little chance of survival

Wow, talk about a crumbling situation. This is like modern civilisation breaking down before our eyes

[Tickford.]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

This is pretty sad in anyone's language....

Ambulance crews told not to transport patients who have little chance of survival

https://www.latimes.com/california/s...-surge-illness

This was also the case in Italy back in March. And Brazil in June. And now the US. What a sad state to be in. Got to feel for the health care workers forced to make these decisions.

Country leaders playing political games with peoples lives is why it ended up being so bad in all three countries mentioned above.

Where are all the braindead morons in the USA who were filming themselves in January/February last year claiming that "the hospitals are empty" and "this is a fake virus", etc, etc? Where are they now??

I really hope the same morons making those videos ended up in the very same hospitals they were filming, infected with the virus, and are now dead! Karma!

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

Interesting factoid is no ICU cases at all thus far for NSW this micro-wave. Better treatment or just that the elderly and infirm have been better protected?

The very accurate contact tracing probably as much as anything else.

When you look at all of the graphs comparing 1st wave and later waves looking at infections and deaths, the virus appears to have become way less dangerous. I don't think that is the case at all, we probably under diagnosed huge numbers of cases in the first months, then captured more, and now in Vic and NSW we are actively searching out likely cases, including many of the asymptomatic cases - you probable get the true caseload. And a truer indication of how the incredible infectiousness is the main weapon for covid. Allowed to go unhindered through the community it would be a disaster. Compared to covid, catching the flu is like catching a fly with chopsticks.