Dangerous Dogs in Victoria

[kinksta]

Here's a bit of fun for the dreary thread Can you find the APBT? I did in one go, but I work with them lol...

http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html

[BFZF8]

Originally Posted by zdcol71

As for the Stafford being no genetically different to the APBT....Not so sure that I agree with that given the pit bull is not much more than a bastard mix to start with, (in terms of recent breeding) as opposed to something that has been a recognised breed for quite some time longer.

Long story short APBTs were staffords taken from England and selectively bred slightly taller and bigger. They've been bred separately for long enough to be recognised as different breeds but no other breed was used to create the APBT.

Sorry, Geez Louise back on topic.

These dogs are NOT for everyone and part of the problem is that people get them and treat them like any other dog breed (this goes for stafford and Amstaff owners too). They are the ones who end up on the news with a dumb look on their face saying "he's never done anything like this before!" People should be screened before getting dogs like these and should be able to demonstrate proof of training and socialisation to be able to keep them. I'd happily endure higher registration fees and inspections if it meant I could keep my dogs.

And yes labs do kill kids they just don't end up on the news because they're not pit bulls.

Edit: kinksta I was going to post that but I forgot!

[kinksta]

Hey everyone who has an opinion should give this a read, it is quite a good read if you care for the subject, and not all kill a dogs that have sharp teeth lol.
Some good points and very informative!

http://www.dogstardaily.com/training/breedism

[Scott]

We've owned staffy's for years and I can "hand on heart" say I trust them more than any other breed of dog.

I don't trust any dog. I especially don't trust dogs in the hands of morons and double especially around kids.

Charge the owners with an equivalent crime and see how long it takes for people to be responsible.

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by BFZF8

There are things called leashes and if people used them there wouldn't be a problem. I run my dogs every night and almost every night I get some idiot's dog/dogs running up to mine and they get very upset when I yell at them to leash them up even though what they're doing is illegal.

.

Perhaps you need to see what happens when a staffy (belonging to a feral) being exercised off lead spots a small dog being walked on a lead by a 10 year old child

[Falc'man]

If the pit bull was bred to be a fighting dog I think the breeding was more focussed on their physicality and strength. Their temperament is something else, it's what they're subjected to, immediately and/or over time.

In saying that, before sitting in my mate's yard with his pit bull I was under the impression you'd be killed within a few seconds if you stared them long enough in the eye. So there I was staring at it, but I must say it was with a smile, saying "koochy woochy little poochy" - all she did was shake her head then walked off. Seriously, she was very placid and it changed my view on them. Trust, though, is another issue, and I still won't trust them as far as I could kick them. Not them, or any other dog.

What are the cons of registration?

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by Scott

We've owned staffy's for years and I can "hand on heart" say I trust them more than any other breed of dog.

I don't trust any dog. I especially don't trust dogs in the hands of morons and double especially around kids.

Charge the owners with an equivalent crime and see how long it takes for people to be responsible.

Totally agree.

Originally Posted by sudszy

Perhaps you need to see what happens when a staffy (belonging to a feral) being exercised off lead spots a small dog being walked on a lead by a 10 year old child

He's saying it's the owners who are neglectful, and you're agreeing with him. Regardless of the make and model of the dog "they will all do the same thing", if they're off the leash... you're going around in circles.

A quick analogy. It's like being hit by a Mack truck or by a car, it doesn't matter because it's the driver who is incompetent with the vehicle he is driving and thus at fault (barring the possibility it was you who suddenly walked out in front of him).

[kinksta]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

What are the cons of registration?

There are no cons, it is compulsory here as it should be.

What breed do you have?

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

I also note A LOT OF HUMANS HAVE NO CLUE how to approach a dog they are not familiar with.

..

Are you suggesting that dog attacks are caused by strangers going up to dogs and unknowingly annoying/provoking attacks?

Most dog attacks Ive seen, and Ive seen a few, are unwanted advances from dogs towards humans that wanted nothing to do with the dog, the problem is clearly caused by the owners of these dogs not having them under control(on a leash)

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by kinksta

There are no cons, it is compulsory here as it should be.

What breed do you have?

I don't have one.

[kinksta]

Originally Posted by sudszy

Are you suggesting that dog attacks are caused by strangers going up to dogs and unknowingly annoying/provoking attacks?

Most dog attacks Ive seen, and Ive seen a few, are unwanted advances from dogs towards humans that wanted nothing to do with the dog, the problem is clearly caused by the owners of these dogs not having them under control(on a leash)

But in saying that, I have seen children climb all over peoples dogs, and the parents lets them, even if it is a strangers dog. When I walk our big GSD, the amount of people who want/need to pat it. Why do people have to pat it? You don't know the dog yet alot walk up like it is a lost child, they come down at the dog, arms out, smiling (baring teeth in dog language) and making silly voices, and to a nervous dog this can/will get a reaction.

But you are right in saying that the owner then needs to work on the dog (control), the dog is only a reflection of the owner. People must think I'm a w***er when I say please don't pat her, but I don't want to run the risk, I don't know these people, I wouldn't let them drive my G6ET.

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by kinksta

There are no cons, it is compulsory here as it should be.

Is it compulsory for all breeds?

[uranium_death]

I think there needs to be a limit on the availability of certain breeds - some people do not understand often what they get and as a result, they are poorly trained.

I refuse to blame the animal - they are instinctive.
If the owner takes all reasonable steps to ensure the safely of others and properly trains and raises the animal, then I am sure that would help...

There would be many, many owners that have had this breed and know how to properly deal with them, resulting in absolutely no issues over decades...

Sensationalism should be overlooked...the issue is stupid dog owners. Not the dogs themselves IMO.

I'm probably repeating what others have said anyway...

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by sudszy

Are you suggesting that dog attacks are caused by strangers going up to dogs and unknowingly annoying/provoking attacks?

Most dog attacks Ive seen, and Ive seen a few, are unwanted advances from dogs towards humans that wanted nothing to do with the dog, the problem is clearly caused by the owners of these dogs not having them under control(on a leash)

A few yrs ago there was a case of a child being mauled by a pitbull cross female.... IN THE DOGS OWN YARD.

The kid was sitting on the fence and throwing rocks at the dog, who had pups.
The dog then pulled the kid by the leg and made him fall off into the yard when she attacked him. The media then reported the puppies (one month old) then attacked the boy as well (I mean seriously how stupid can the reporter be?).

ERGON energy reported that its meter readers were getting bitten more and more (a few weeks ago). Well I watched the meter reader enter the premises and he was busy talking to his wife/partner and just simply opened the gate and walked in despite my dog barking at him. And yes I have a sign at the gate warning people I have a dog in the yard.

I have also seen children go up to dogs which are tied up outside the shop here and walk up behind it and scare it. A great way to get bitten. Or they pull the dogs tail etc.... thinking its funny.

So yes... HUMANS again are the main factors when it comes to doing stupid things.

My last previous dog also had a tumour and would fit, it would then be very aggressive to my other dog as it didnt recognise it. It would take 20 to 30mins of sitting with her until she settled down.

How many times do you see bogans in FWDs with some poorly socialised dog in a small cage left out in the sun all day having its brain fried?
Gee its the dogs fault, we should kill it because it has a brain and free will and should be able to tell its owner im dieing out here... oh wait.. no it cant.

[graham_h]

Originally Posted by Ford_The_Win

I personally agree with the motion 100% and I am a dog lover. Certain breeds of dog are notoriously dangerous, a lot of little kids have had their throats ripped out by these things over the years, so it's about time they do something about it, I always keep well away from pit bulls and mastiffs when I see one. They were bred specifically to kill things. It doesn't help that knucklehead owners don't train their dogs properly or keep their yard secure and that's when the trouble really starts. They should be made to pay for their carelessness and stupidity.

I agree with your statement but not the highlighted section. I see dogs very much like little kids. They're aren't any bad one's its how they are brought up. Dumb breeders looking for quick money selling to even worse owners... you're right there.

Take Cesar Millan's pitbulls...... natural born killers ? hardly.



I do think 100% that all breeders need to be properly licenced and monitored to weed out the back yarders and owners educated properly

[Geez Louise]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

Is it compulsory for all breeds?

Hi Falc'man

ALL dogs in Victoria are supposed to be registered with your local council, regardless of the breed.

If your dog is declared dangerous, you MUST have it kept in a secure enclosure with a concrete floor (so they can not dig out), it has to wear a special tag from the council that denotes it is a dangerous dog and you must display signage on your property stating that one lives there. They must also be desexed.

Council ranges can come and inspect your property at anytime.

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by kinksta

But in saying that, I have seen children climb all over peoples dogs, and the parents lets them, even if it is a strangers dog. When I walk our big GSD, the amount of people who want/need to pat it. Why do people have to pat it? You don't know the dog yet alot walk up like it is a lost child, they come down at the dog, arms out, smiling (baring teeth in dog language) and making silly voices, and to a nervous dog this can/will get a reaction.
.

I appreciate your point, but the responsibility is still the owner of the dog.

Owners dont get a get out of jail free card just because their dog got nervous and decided to take a piece out of a kid that got too close to their dog, pulled a face at it, whatever, in a PUBLIC area. A responsible owner should have such a dog( that gets nervous and is capable of pulling a human to shreds) muzzled when in PUBLIC, even if on a lead.

[Geez Louise]

Originally Posted by sudszy

I appreciate your point, but the responsibility is still the owner of the dog.

Owners dont get a get out of jail free card just because their dog got nervous and decided to take a piece out of a kid that got too close to their dog, pulled a face at it, whatever, in a PUBLIC area. A responsible owner should have such a dog( that gets nervous and is capable of pulling a human to shreds) muzzled when in PUBLIC, even if on a lead.

I have to agree with you on that point sudszy. Owners need to take responsibility for their dogs.

When our dogs were walked, we muzzled them...It is no drama to put one on a dog. They can still breathe and lick etc with one on, they just can't bite anything!

[cs123]

Originally Posted by Geez Louise

If your dog is declared dangerous, you MUST have it kept in a secure enclosure with a concrete floor (so they can not dig out), it has to wear a special tag from the council that denotes it is a dangerous dog and you must display signage on your property stating that one lives there. They must also be desexed.

A jail for dogs then. Mustn't be a very nice existence for them.

I'm all for responsible ownership.

If I were going to go Nanny State then I would probably want dog owners to have passed obedience classes with their dogs. I've done obedience with my dogs and IMO this this one of the best things you can do.

[FPV8U]

Originally Posted by cs123

If I were going to go Nanny State then I would probably want dog owners to have passed obedience classes with their dogs. I've done obedience with my dogs and IMO this this one of the best things you can do.

This +1

[mik]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

So is putting an inexperienced driver in a high powered car...

completly out of context but anyway, ...... http://au.news.yahoo.com/latest/a/-/...ler-in-sydney/ the kid in this link was lucky, but another every day occurence.
i can only imagine a one of these dogs attacking my kids or family member and not being able to get them off before they are ripped to shreds, you only have to do some walking to see these animals unattended in back yards which are a loaded gun imo. there`s very little to make irresponsible owners have decent fencing to keep them in , some are vicious and are wandering the streets.
the kid in the post above was lucky......if you can call it that.

[LTDHO]

Ok, I will admit I need to be educated on this.

My opinion, Pit Bulls are like guns. The owner can use them to kill or not.
Can a Pitty not be raised to be fun loving safe dog?

I heard all Pittys are on the edge of snapping regardless on how they are raised? Is this true?

Are Pittys in the same class now as German Sheppards used to be?

[sen]

owned an american pitbull for 7 odd years, was the most placid, gentle dog we've ever had, i can honestly not recall a single incident where she got aggressive/violent ever

i can understand where people are coming from though, even when she would playingly grab you it would hurt

[351p6replica]

lve owned acouple of pit bulls an they were as gentle as all hell with kids as they were raised as pups around them , they never attcked unless you were breking in or trying to hrm 1 of the kids, l worked at the pound ages ago an saw all kinds of dogs attack ppl an haveing to be destroyed. all dog have it in them an if not trained or handled right then things go wrong,. l dont understand why they plk 1 breed an now they are saying as well any dog that looks like a pitty cross is at risk. l own a bullarib x greatdane rig back now an he looks more like the other 2 breeds an he is a pure baby , he is my therapy guard dog an ppl go oh he a big dog an looks vicious. not so unless u hurt me the kids or go into my back yard an he dont know u alone. got signs up saying guard dog entre at risk. these ppl who own pittys an cause trouble by not knowing how to handle them makes it hard on ppl who own these dogs an have nevr had any problems. As l stated l have seen many kinds of dogs taken to the pound to be destroyed because they have asttacked an its a shame in some ways as some ppl dont know how to handle or raise a dog with kids which seem to be the 1s getting attacked the most. Last dog l saw being destroyed was a lab whos owner was walking it when somebody tried to attack an rob the owner , outcome dog went to protect the owner now its destroyed..all dogs can be dangerous in the end if not handled correctly at all

[vanman_75]

My sister has a mastif / rotweiler/ and a pitbull and they all live inside her house and treated like royalty , bring them up as such and you can have a kid pull food out of their mouths ! I was stricken on my horse as a pup and she won't even blink when you pull her tale or take her food . If I walk past a house and a dog is breaking its neck to try and get out of that fence at you , then its a dangerous dog . My stepfathers border collie took a snap at me when I walked past him while he was eating ( I did not know as a bone had just been thrown to him ) I nearly lost my jewels and had a big hole in my leg ....so he was put down .so yes any dog can ...but if trained right won't , wish they would stop carrying on about apbt they no different

[Ford_The_Win]

Originally Posted by graham_h

I agree with your statement but not the highlighted section. I see dogs very much like little kids. They're aren't any bad one's its how they are brought up. Dumb breeders looking for quick money selling to even worse owners... you're right there.

Take Cesar Millan's pitbulls...... natural born killers ? hardly.



I do think 100% that all breeders need to be properly licenced and monitored to weed out the back yarders and owners educated properly

There is a LOT of research that tells us that human temperament and more specifically, aggression, has a genetic component. Yes, how you are raised has a massive impact on your personality and temperament, but there is a definite genetic component. Who says dogs are any different? Especially if they are like little kids as you say.

Pit bulls and staffys were bred specifically for their game hunting abilities and aggression. Their natural aggression threshold is lower than other breeds, which is why insurance companies & many jurisdictions around the world hate them. Do you really think an insurance company would want to be caught off guard? Those money grubbers are on the ball with everything.

[kinksta]

Originally Posted by sudszy

I appreciate your point, but the responsibility is still the owner of the dog.

Owners dont get a get out of jail free card just because their dog got nervous and decided to take a piece out of a kid that got too close to their dog, pulled a face at it, whatever, in a PUBLIC area. A responsible owner should have such a dog( that gets nervous and is capable of pulling a human to shreds) muzzled when in PUBLIC, even if on a lead.

Sorry you misunderstood what I meant or I didn't explain it properly. In my opinion it is never the dog, it is the owners first and the other person second.

If you have a nervous dog (which plenty do) you gotta take extra precautions or work the nervousness out. I never blame the dog.

[kinksta]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

I heard all Pittys are on the edge of snapping regardless on how they are raised? Is this true?

Are Pittys in the same class now as German Sheppards used to be?

No, just another myth, just like locking of the jaws. They don't even have the strongest jaws in the dog world.

Just to clear up the myths people are unaware of..
http://www.realpitbull.com/myths.html

[BFZF8]

Originally Posted by kinksta

No, just another myth, just like locking of the jaws. They don't even have the strongest jaws in the dog world.

Just to clear up the myths people are unaware of..
http://www.realpitbull.com/myths.html

I can understand all the people calling for the eradication of these breeds because of all the myths surrounding them. Does anyone remember in the 80's there was the story (bs) about Dobermanns' brains outgrowing their skulls and causing them to snap? Well the same story is now being used for APBTs along with the old locking jaws rubbish.

[Streets]

Originally Posted by BFZF8

Does anyone remember in the 80's there was the story (bs) about Dobermanns' brains outgrowing their skulls

That explains everything