is the 4x4 honeymoon over?

[Swordie]

I would of thought utes having 4x4 operating while driving on the road would have a low risk of spinning the back out. I don't which utes offer this.

From my reading it also helps to have a load too help handling, otherwise the backend is a bit light.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by Swordie

I would of thought utes having 4x4 operating while driving on the road would have a low risk of spinning the back out. I don't which utes offer this.

From my reading it also helps to have a load too help handling, otherwise the backend is a bit light.

Triton has had it available on the upper models for a while (Superselect)
Some Rangers now have on demand 4x4 too.

[kevino]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

There's one spineless little "man" goading Franco to come in and say something in the Lebonator thread, because he's too cowardly to come in and say anything himself

Why would you care that much?

Some people are better with words and statistics than others

Franco has the words and stats down pat

I had a double cab ute once - company supplied

Diesel
Hilux
Manual

After it did two 180 spin outs in the wet and yes tyres and r and m all fine I swapped it with another employee - he took the pos dc ute and I took his Corolla.
The Corolla at least was stable on the road and not dangerous on the wet

And having had Fords since 2004 I sometimes get a loan car from the dealer

Couple of years ago I got a Ranger as a loan car

Nothing had changed in x years - but of drizzle - turn left - felt the back end move - off the throttle ok …. But that same old feeling crap in the wet

What happened in that ute accident outside Canberra at Easter. Rain trouble people killed

As Franco points out and I am not highly technical drum brakes leaf springs ladder chassis can cause disasters

Enough said

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Sorry Franco your off the mark on this one. These utes are safe enough and much safer than Falcons gone by.

Times are a changin (already have), your too young to harbour so much angst for a lack of choice for new cars that I cant see you buying anyway?

Yeah nah.
Safer maneuvering?
Safer braking?
Safer overtaking?
Probably safer in an actual crash, but I'd rather the better odds at avoiding a crash to start with.

[Big_Daz]

Originally Posted by XR Martin

Triton has had it available on the upper models for a while (Superselect)
Some Rangers now have on demand 4x4 too.

All the V6 models do, the Bi-Turbo's still don't. Was one of the reasons I ordered the V6 over the Biturbo (that and towing my boat and SS to events)

Its one of the things I like about my old mans 2018 Triton GLS. I've borrowed it for a week at a time before I got my daily when I had my SS in for engine/stereo mods. Some of that time it was raining for day's. Was nice to be able to reach down and switch to 4wd on the move on paved surfaces. Made a heap of difference and a much nicer drive in the wet....

[Smoke Pursuit]

4A is great in the new Rangers.

Select Performance Mode (turned on by Saeb) and they automatically go into 4A.

Massive improvement in the wet!

As for a dual cab ute being safer then a Falcon... I doubt it FG / X were one of the safest cars around, dynamically they are still safer then a dual cab and probably stronger through the body, no ladder chassis.

[Swordie]

Amarok is another, it has 4Motion and is available on the base ute. It's a system used on allot of VWs.

I remember driving an EF wagon that was a bit tail happy in the wet around tight corners. My VY Wagon sticks really well.

It also helps to have the right tyres to improve traction. That's probably another area for improvement for Utes.

[au2000]

genuine question here as i'm not into 4x4'ing at all.
with all the electronics on new 4x4's these days, how do they go when out bush in water ruts etc?
are there issues with the electronics getting wet? I know my son & his partners old triton was buried waist deep awhile ago, he drained it, stripped out the carpets & has been fine ever since.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by au2000

genuine question here as i'm not into 4x4'ing at all.
with all the electronics on new 4x4's these days, how do they go when out bush in water ruts etc?
are there issues with the electronics getting wet? I know my son & his partners old triton was buried waist deep awhile ago, he drained it, stripped out the carpets & has been fine ever since.

I'm curious too. can I add the petrol engined ones as well.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by au2000

genuine question here as i'm not into 4x4'ing at all.
with all the electronics on new 4x4's these days, how do they go when out bush in water ruts etc?
are there issues with the electronics getting wet? I know my son & his partners old triton was buried waist deep awhile ago, he drained it, stripped out the carpets & has been fine ever since.

The nature of the traction controls and less articulation than 'proper' old school 4wd means much more lifting of tyres in rutted upslopes and downslopes, the traction gets them through though tyres-on-ground is nice

Found my old 60 & then 105 and 100 series better turning circles off road, nice if you are a long way down a track and need to go back.

Dunno about the water

Good to hear they've got 4x4 on demand systems in some of them, much safer in heavy rain in winding or slippery roads.

[jstanovic]

The connections and parts are pretty well water sealed from factory.

Salt water can play havoc if it gets into the cable joins but generally you try and stay away from salt water. I have had to cross a few salt water river mouths less than 500mm deep but so far so good.

Been through water (nothing over about 800mm high) and it hasn't been a problem. If you get stuck in water and it starts getting in past the door seals then you are probably in big trouble, lots of electronic boxes under the seat and any electrical connections aren't water protected inside.

All wiring underneath seems to be well sealed up and so far no off road water related issues. More of a worry getting ABS wires etc ripped out by sticks or things getting crushed by rocks. Mind you I'm a bit older now so take it slow off road, no more ****ing comps with mates up the rock climbs...

Mine is a PX1, new Rangers may have a few more electrical bits to be wary of.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by prydey

Never understood why some people concern themselves with other people's choices.

Because this is a forum where we are discussing 4x4s?

Originally Posted by b0son

Tray's too small for my use (ideally, needs to be long enough for my gokart). There was a long tray Ranger development mule, but I'm not aware of it being a serious prospect to be made.

The new Silverado gets a folding rear seat, so long items can breach the cabin, which is a nice compromise. But again, wont see that in any regular sized utes. And am I'm not going to drive something F150-sized.

Yeah the tray is too small. The main reason I wanted a Ute was to throw filthy mountain bikes in the back. A single bike was fine but if I had two or more I would have to leave the tailgate down or hang them over the top.
Now I just buy 4x4 wagons.l and bought a good bike rack. No more leaf springs, no more massive turning circle, no more placing random items on the back seat when it’s raining.

[Citroënbender]

I remember Nike Airs and Reebok Pumps coming out. There was a similar “Gotta get” mania where largely irrelevant detail was touted to pseudo-justify fashion cravings.

I’m hoping the market for practical trades vehicles comes around - highly unlikely that I’ll still be driving a B-series ute daily in 2043. I bought it in 2019, so what comes out in the next few years is potentially a waypoint to its successor in my life.

[myrpo]

Thin you have to keep in mind twin cabs are compromises. They don't brake, handle, ride, or 4x4 generally as wall as vehicles made to do a specific job. None of them are great at one thing, but they do a little of a lot.

Put a half decent load in the back and they become light in the front.
Put anyone but small kids in the back and its tight.
They build them lower and lighter these days for less roll overs and lower centre of gravity, but they now go a lot faster so think that safety spec is negated. When I say lighter the chassis has also not been forgotten, so things bend easier.
The trend has been to pack them with electronic capability to make them more capable on and off road, but also to make up for the humans lack of knowledge and skills, let the alone the cars failings if they were not included.
The sensors work but continued water, dirt, dust, sand, repeat in an off road sense takes its toll. Not a big one but can be a show stopper.
The style side variant it largely painful when loading for work, off road, or private use. Even big American utes suffer the same fait as the top of the style side is far too high for loading, particularly unloading. Even a lowered tail gate is bench height.

As a family/work hack they tick boxes. Wet dogs, kids sport shoes, garden waste, or a few boxes or hay in the back no problems. A few adults for a short run works, or a young family, and if you have to go down a dirt road, unpaved work site, or jump the gutter in the shopping centre they offer opportunity.
As a family 4x4 they are ok, but poor on load space for the volumes of camping gear most take, and it gets wet. So a ridiculous towing weight completes the package for a possible camper trailer or van. Gearing is generally set up for the back top so keeps the punter happy, and heaps of power with electronic aids get it to most places you point it off road. Everyone inside is like a tossed salad however, and few seem to be concerned with track damage, environmental degradation, or vehicle damage. Many family wagons also fit into this space. They make for a better farm hack, but you see standard sized utes the preferred choice for better load space.

Got a mate traded in his late model 4x4 top of the line Amarok as it had lacking safety features. Went like a scalded cat, no room in the back for his 12YO kids, and he always complained about fitting a mountain bike in the back. Yes the market leading twin cab that takes a full pallet in the back, with the ground clearance of a family sedan.
Bought a top end RAM, says its chalk and cheese in every department. He did spend $140K though so that's not going to work for most. 17/18lt a 100km of diesel is the new bill around town; not forgetting it doesn't fit in most carparks either. More cable but still compromising on a daily basis me thinks.

[SSVPom]

Well said myrpo, I’m currently in a PX3 Ranger and now I’m used to it’s size, practicality and driving dynamics, it’s still a 60% car for me - it’s moderately competent at everything, and a master of nothing.
My next vehicle will be an Everest most likely, as with most dual cabs (especially non top of the range ones) you have to spend up big to make the tray as practical as a regular SUV, by adding tonneaus or in my case roller shutters - which still leak - dust seals, central locking on the tailgate etc etc.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by au2000

genuine question here as i'm not into 4x4'ing at all.
with all the electronics on new 4x4's these days, how do they go when out bush in water ruts etc?
are there issues with the electronics getting wet? I know my son & his partners old triton was buried waist deep awhile ago, he drained it, stripped out the carpets & has been fine ever since.

Don't tell your insurance as they will write it off, my son in law took his Raptor through water and lost all his electrics for a few hours, even after switching off the ignition the engine still ran for about 15 minutes.
Thats modern technology for you.

[myrpo]

Originally Posted by Itsme

Don't tell your insurance as they will write it off, my son in law took his Raptor through water and lost all his electrics for a few hours, even after switching off the ignition the engine still ran for about 15 minutes.
Thats modern technology for you.

water ingress above sill is a write off. I know this from experience. Of course many of us just dry the carpets as its a pain to change cars.

Its weird as cars have a wading depth of 800 to 1000mm, but if she fill up its off she goes.

[myrpo]

Originally Posted by SSVPom

Well said myrpo, I’m currently in a PX3 Ranger and now I’m used to it’s size, practicality and driving dynamics, it’s still a 60% car for me - it’s moderately competent at everything, and a master of nothing.
My next vehicle will be an Everest most likely, as with most dual cabs (especially non top of the range ones) you have to spend up big to make the tray as practical as a regular SUV, by adding tonneaus or in my case roller shutters - which still leak - dust seals, central locking on the tailgate etc etc.

I think chosen components by manufactures make a big difference to feel of the car and its performance.

I have had a 06 rodeo twin cab with leaf pack with drums on the rear end. It chatted and drifted on corrugations badly, but the brakes were sharp.

I had a 2010 defender 130 twin cab which had 4 wheel discs, but they were never as sharp as a Japanese twin cab. Its duel coil 3 point rear end flexed incredibly well and provided ride comfort loaded at 1.5T payload, or empty. It ate corrugations and rough roads for breakfast. Towed a car trailer with no issues which most will argue is not for coils. But in the city it was a pig and turned like a boat. The Pajero wagon I have now with its all wheel drive all round independent suspension, 4 wheel discs and full size roof rack wins out easily on everything. If I need more space I just tow a standard trailer.

[Big_Daz]

Originally Posted by myrpo

Thin you have to keep in mind twin cabs are compromises. They don't brake, handle, ride, or 4x4 generally as wall as vehicles made to do a specific job. None of them are great at one thing, but they do a little of a lot.

Most cars have some sort of compromise... You just buy whatever suits your actual needs and wants best, then live with the relevant compromise.

My modified SSV Redline has compromises, but I love it, and it makes me smile every time I drive it so it doesnt worry me

The V6 Wildtrak I have coming, same thing (we all know from the threads on here what the compromises may be) but its perfect for what I need so, again, also worth it....

[au2000]

Originally Posted by Itsme

Don't tell your insurance as they will write it off, my son in law took his Raptor through water and lost all his electrics for a few hours, even after switching off the ignition the engine still ran for about 15 minutes.
Thats modern technology for you.

Insurance??? For a 26 year old triton.. third party is already generous lol
Nah they just ripped out and binned the carpets.. left the metal floor.. still powering along.. in fact just this week he is about 1800 ks into a 3 week trip and its not fallen apart ..... yet

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Smoke Pursuit

4A is great in the new Rangers.

Select Performance Mode (turned on by Saeb) and they automatically go into 4A.

Massive improvement in the wet!

As for a dual cab ute being safer then a Falcon... I doubt it FG / X were one of the safest cars around, dynamically they are still safer then a dual cab and probably stronger through the body, no ladder chassis.

Suggesting a car like the Ranger is not safer than a FGX (or pick any Falcon) is madness.

People driving not to condition, not to their own capability and yes every vehicle including a Falcon has its limitations.

You can cherry pick an array of incidents that will affect different vehicles in different ways.

Is it possible to have a discussion about dual cabs without it being a personal agenda?

[raised by monkeys]

Originally Posted by myrpo

Thin you have to keep in mind twin cabs are compromises. They don't brake, handle, ride, or 4x4 generally as wall as vehicles made to do a specific job. None of them are great at one thing, but they do a little of a lot.

Put a half decent load in the back and they become light in the front.
Put anyone but small kids in the back and its tight.
They build them lower and lighter these days for less roll overs and lower centre of gravity, but they now go a lot faster so think that safety spec is negated. When I say lighter the chassis has also not been forgotten, so things bend easier.
The trend has been to pack them with electronic capability to make them more capable on and off road, but also to make up for the humans lack of knowledge and skills, let the alone the cars failings if they were not included.
The sensors work but continued water, dirt, dust, sand, repeat in an off road sense takes its toll. Not a big one but can be a show stopper.
The style side variant it largely painful when loading for work, off road, or private use. Even big American utes suffer the same fait as the top of the style side is far too high for loading, particularly unloading. Even a lowered tail gate is bench height.

As a family/work hack they tick boxes. Wet dogs, kids sport shoes, garden waste, or a few boxes or hay in the back no problems. A few adults for a short run works, or a young family, and if you have to go down a dirt road, unpaved work site, or jump the gutter in the shopping centre they offer opportunity.
As a family 4x4 they are ok, but poor on load space for the volumes of camping gear most take, and it gets wet. So a ridiculous towing weight completes the package for a possible camper trailer or van. Gearing is generally set up for the back top so keeps the punter happy, and heaps of power with electronic aids get it to most places you point it off road. Everyone inside is like a tossed salad however, and few seem to be concerned with track damage, environmental degradation, or vehicle damage. Many family wagons also fit into this space. They make for a better farm hack, but you see standard sized utes the preferred choice for better load space.

Got a mate traded in his late model 4x4 top of the line Amarok as it had lacking safety features. Went like a scalded cat, no room in the back for his 12YO kids, and he always complained about fitting a mountain bike in the back. Yes the market leading twin cab that takes a full pallet in the back, with the ground clearance of a family sedan.
Bought a top end RAM, says its chalk and cheese in every department. He did spend $140K though so that's not going to work for most. 17/18lt a 100km of diesel is the new bill around town; not forgetting it doesn't fit in most carparks either. More cable but still compromising on a daily basis me thinks.

They have replaced the family wagon with good reason. As family with 2 small kids, one car per adult, they tick all the boxes. We have a local Dodge dealer and if we had 140k and the space, id probably still be reluctant. 140k is 2x new 4x4 DC. My wifes car is a 2010 SR5 and it has served us well - family trips, towing a van, wet dogs in the back, trips to the dump, a little offroad and numerous aftermarket parts available. Hard not to justify

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Suggesting a car like the Ranger is not safer than a FGX (or pick any Falcon) is madness.

People driving not to condition, not to their own capability and yes every vehicle including a Falcon has its limitations.

You can cherry pick an array of incidents that will affect different vehicles in different ways.

Is it possible to have a discussion about dual cabs without it being a personal agenda?

Totally agree on all points.

As an aside, ancap or ncap ratings are only comparable to other vehicles in the same class, ie, similar size and weight. I'd rather be in a ranger over a falcon any day if the week, if I was involved in an accident.

[MrEL]

I do chuckle at people saying a full chassis isn't as strong as a monoquoqe.
To work out which is stronger you only need to look up VSB 14 which has the capacity to weight requirements for engine conversions.
A standard setup like a Falcon or Territory is weight times 5 to come up with maximum engine capacity.
Full chassis vehicles have no restrictions. Put whatever you want in
Even the clipboard holders acknowledge a full chassis is stronger.

[PG2]

'We' (the wife actually owns it - even the grandkids call it Nanny's car and get upset when I try to call it Poppy's car) own a 2018 Colorado.

Ours is used as a family hack and grocery getter. Lately it is used to transport our precious cargo around - our two grand daughters.

I'll be clear up front, I am not knocking dual cabs, it is just the ownership of this dual cab over the last 5 years has had too many compromises.

Some of the things that we have found over the last 5 years with it are;

• If we have bought anything of size, we have found that it will not fit into the dual cab and I have had to go back with the Falcon ute and pick it up.
• We permanently have two car seats in the back seat so there is not a lot of room left. When the wife goes grocery shopping, she finds it difficult to undo and do up the tonneau cover. Also the shopping slides around in the tub and she has to half climb into the tub area to retrieve it.
• Speaking of shopping, the wife does not like the idea of putting our food in the same place where some sort of funky stuff that I took the dump was sitting the previous day.

I'll leave it at three. If I was to list everything people would get bored or see the size of the post and not read it at all.

We are sort of in the market for a new car with the only thing holding us back is waiting times for new cars, yes, I am impatient and not willing to wait 12 months for anything.

Our next car will most likely not be a dual cab.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by MrEL

I do chuckle at people saying a full chassis isn't as strong as a monocoque.

Thought that was funny too. Can not ever recall seeing a monocoque semi trailer of late.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by prydey

Totally agree on all points.

As an aside, ancap or ncap ratings are only comparable to other vehicles in the same class, ie, similar size and weight. I'd rather be in a ranger over a falcon any day if the week, if I was involved in an accident.

In terms of impact testing, it's way more involved these days too. It was pretty simple back when the FG was crash tested. Now it's not just head on, but side impact, offset impact, higher speeds etc etc.

FG wouldn't pass the tests now. And it didn't have any of the passive safety tech like auto braking etc. Not that i'm really a fan of any of that stuff, but it serves a purpose.

[Polyal]

Doing a list of +/-'s will never end, the dual cab is not a direct competitor to the Falcon. People can cross shop all they like but you cant begrudge a vehicle in a different class, it was designed for different things.

Ranger may have been spun as a replacement for the Falcon ute but that's because no where else in the world did utes like us...so hardly fair to compare.

People obviously will because thats what they grew up with, or, just left.

Im sure everyone would get a RAM if the budget and fuel bill allowed. I am sure someone will chime in and say no still even if it was free and came with a fuel card.

[Citroënbender]

Im sure everyone would get a RAM if the budget and fuel bill allowed. I am sure someone will chime in and say no still even if it was free and came with a fuel card.

If I could onsell it right away, I’d take it. Otherwise I’d rather not.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by PG2

'We' (the wife actually owns it - even the grandkids call it Nanny's car and get upset when I try to call it Poppy's car) own a 2018 Colorado.

Ours is used as a family hack and grocery getter. Lately it is used to transport our precious cargo around - our two grand daughters.

I'll be clear up front, I am not knocking dual cabs, it is just the ownership of this dual cab over the last 5 years has had too many compromises.

Some of the things that we have found over the last 5 years with it are;

• If we have bought anything of size, we have found that it will not fit into the dual cab and I have had to go back with the Falcon ute and pick it up.
• We permanently have two car seats in the back seat so there is not a lot of room left. When the wife goes grocery shopping, she finds it difficult to undo and do up the tonneau cover. Also the shopping slides around in the tub and she has to half climb into the tub area to retrieve it.
• Speaking of shopping, the wife does not like the idea of putting our food in the same place where some sort of funky stuff that I took the dump was sitting the previous day.

I'll leave it at three. If I was to list everything people would get bored or see the size of the post and not read it at all.

We are sort of in the market for a new car with the only thing holding us back is waiting times for new cars, yes, I am impatient and not willing to wait 12 months for anything.

Our next car will most likely not be a dual cab.

Wow it's almost like Franco is right

They do everything, just horribly.