Holden cuts off communication with Federal Government

[BroadyFord]

Originally Posted by fte50

So does your 3-4 week predicted announcement now happen 3-4 months or 3-4yrs ??

Based on all the facts before this article plus what Labor were saying, it appeared a December announcement was inevitable.

For the record I DON'T want GMH to shut down!

[GASWAGON]

Take note at the bottom of the article that Ford have given 3 yrs notice of its closure to its employees......Holdens notice will be much less for theres!

[fte50]

Although reports look grim, hopefully closure wont happen. The industry is so volatile its hard to speculate and just like Melbourne weather can see a series of patterns in 1 season.
3yrs notice is long but gives good pre-warning, at this major level though Holden just like any responsible corporate should give suppliers enough notice to ensure they have the lead time to restructure their business model to remain viable - although many wont survive, there will be some that can restructure or move into new ventures and stay afloat.

[BroadyFord]

Even before Ford announced closure, the writing was on the wall more clearly given the fact they had not approached parts suppliers for new contracts post the next-gen Falcon.

Holden on the other hand have a stated plan beyond the life of the current VF which is awaiting the go-ahead pending the government's decision.

[fte50]

Correct, next series modelling/development has begun. Having said that it don't mean closure cant happen though, but they must be proactive and have a plan to believe in a future should they be given a life line.

[GASWAGON]

Originally Posted by BroadyFord

Even before Ford announced closure, the writing was on the wall more clearly given the fact they had not approached parts suppliers for new contracts post the next-gen Falcon.

Holden on the other hand have a stated plan beyond the life of the current VF which is awaiting the go-ahead pending the government's decision.

In other words waiting for more tax payers bailouts!

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by EF_6

In other words waiting for more tax payers bailouts!

They're not bailouts ffs,

[GASWAGON]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

They're not bailouts ffs,

Well it is still tax payers money to help them keep goin.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by EF_6

Well it is still tax payers money to help them keep goin.

the amount of money the gov get for its outlay, I wish my bank paid dividends that handsomely.

[nstg8a]

if Holden actually manage to surprise everyone, including myself, and stay manufacturing I'd almost jump ship instead of buying a fh.

[BroadyFord]

Slightly off topic, but I just had a look at the submissions for the Prod Comm's review - 2 in support of the industry and 2 against.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by EF_6

Well it is still tax payers money to help them keep goin.

If that's your view, you might find this eye opening:


"However, as Kim Carr noted recently, the industry, cumulatively, received subsidies amounting to less than $18 per person over the last decade. So it cost you, the long-suffering Australian taxpayer, the princely sum of $1.80 per annum to prevent the collapse of plants like Elizabeth, Fishermans Bend, Altona, Geelong and Broadmeadows."

"You — yes, you — subsidise the banks to the tune of $763 per annum, plus all the fees and charges they generously impose upon you. Not quite the chunk of change ($83 billion) the US government affords its banks in subsidies, but still.

And the mining industry doesn’t have clean hands either. They get at least $4 billion per annum. Queensland alone spends $1.4 billion in subsidies.

Let’s be clear about this: virtually every industry in Australia is subsidised, directly or indirectly, via government hand-outs.

We’ll try a little quiz first. Tick any box that applies to you:

Your child care.

Your private (and public) health insurance.

Your wheat. (The Australian Wheat Board runs a single desk that avoids a genuinely free market in wheat export sales. And does deals with the late-lamented Saddam, occasionally.)

Your private schools.

Your universities.

Your accountant.

Your private-sector big law firm, which would require oxygen if starved of government contracts. A Victorian government-commissioned report (by Boston Consulting) notes that, “up until now the provision of legal services has largely been an unsupervised feeding trough for law firms.” (It’s now a supervised feeding trough.)

Your National Broadband Network. (My telecoms engineering friends are still giggling with delight at the mere thought of the NBN and have all ordered new 7-Series BMWs.)

Your first home.

Your nursing home.

Your negative gearing.

Your ABC.

My salary.

Your salary.

Your superannuation tax breaks.

Actors and the arts in general (don’t me get started; I’ll end up sounding like Jack Hibberd)."

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

if Holden actually manage to surprise everyone, including myself, and stay manufacturing I'd almost jump ship instead of buying a fh.

And that (unfortunately), is the difference between a Ford fan and a Holden fan. I can't imagine the Holden fans giving this support to Ford if it were the other way round. But, alas, we have a number of people masquerading as Ford fans supporting the other team. Me? I make no apologies for being a one-eyed Ford fan. Same as a football team that I support. Each to their own, I guess.

[BHDOGS]

big call p6 that makes u a ford fan not a car enthusiast and as you know being a car enthusiast is apparently better then being a ford fan why i dont know just ask the people who think we give a **** that they dont like that we dont like holdens.

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by P6LTD351

And that (unfortunately), is the difference between a Ford fan and a Holden fan. I can't imagine the Holden fans giving this support to Ford if it were the other way round. But, alas, we have a number of people masquerading as Ford fans supporting the other team. Me? I make no apologies for being a one-eyed Ford fan. Same as a football team that I support. Each to their own, I guess.

It stopped being ford vs Holden a long time ago...
So come 2016, I manage to get the funds together to buy maybe the only brand new car il ever buy and I want a v8 ute.
If ford aren't making them am I just supposed to give up on what I want?

I don't expect anyone to apologise for being one eyed, nothing wrong with brand loyalty.
As for masquerading as a ford fan? Go and **** yourself. I've owned pretty much every model of falcon except for b series, and pre xw.
I love my falcons, but I'm not blind to other brands either.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by P6LTD351

And that (unfortunately), is the difference between a Ford fan and a Holden fan. I can't imagine the Holden fans giving this support to Ford if it were the other way round. But, alas, we have a number of people masquerading as Ford fans supporting the other team. Me? I make no apologies for being a one-eyed Ford fan. Same as a football team that I support. Each to their own, I guess.

Yes each to their own. Some can see that you are comparing two American car companies and pledging some kind of allegiance to one multinational over another. The bigger picture story is one is quitting production in 2016 and one might keep going a few years more. One walked away and one is trying to survive. As an Australian I know which American car company I will support if it sticks around a bit longer and keeps Australians in jobs for at least a few more years.

I have no interest in football and they have even less to do with what car I drive.

So far I have bought seven new Australian built Fords and just got my first Australian built Holden. The common theme in that last sentence isn't the brand.

Each to his own as you say.

[fte50]

Originally Posted by P6LTD351

And that (unfortunately), is the difference between a Ford fan and a Holden fan. I can't imagine the Holden fans giving this support to Ford if it were the other way round. But, alas, we have a number of people masquerading as Ford fans supporting the other team. Me? I make no apologies for being a one-eyed Ford fan. Same as a football team that I support. Each to their own, I guess.

Bet you would swap your P6LTD for a HT GTS Monaro in a flash .... yeah don't admit it but we all know the answer. One eyed my harse.

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

It stopped being ford vs Holden a long time ago...
So come 2016, I manage to get the funds together to buy maybe the only brand new car il ever buy and I want a v8 ute.
If ford aren't making them am I just supposed to give up on what I want?

I don't expect anyone to apologise for being one eyed, nothing wrong with brand loyalty.
As for masquerading as a ford fan? Go and **** yourself. I've owned pretty much every model of falcon except for b series, and pre xw.
I love my falcons, but I'm not blind to other brands either.

But that's my point. You are prepared to jump teams. I just don't think as many Holden fans would feel the same. A true Ford fan could not buy a new Holden. You're a car fan, or V8 ute fan. Fair enough. I'd love a 2 door modern coupe. I could buy a second hand Monaro - but I won't. And telling me to go **** myself was a bit much.

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by fte50

Bet you would swap your P6LTD for a HT GTS Monaro in a flash .... yeah don't admit it but we all know the answer. One eyed my harse.

No I would not. And that's the truth. But you don't need to believe me. I have enough cash to buy any car south of $200 000. I don't choose to spend my money that way.

[fte50]

A true Ford fan could not buy a new Holden - would you seriously not enjoy driving a new SS type sedan over your fleet of cars in signature..... I don't mean this with disrespect, but just seriously ???

Its like a 1 eyed bogan waffling on the other way around - "Nah mate, never give up my HQ Belmont to drive in an FG"...... p1ss off.

This aint about teams, while we have brand preference based on emotion we do acknowledge and respect whats nice is nice.
Im a Ford nut, like some Holdens from my youthful memories, think the current V series HSV are cracker, love my Mopars and absolutely adore Alfa's.
Yes im a 1 eyed ford lover whos eyes wander.

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by fte50

A true Ford fan could not buy a new Holden - would you seriously not enjoy driving a new SS type sedan over your fleet of cars in signature..... I don't mean this with disrespect, but just seriously ???

Its like a 1 eyed bogan waffling on the other way around - "Nah mate, never give up my HQ Belmont to drive in an FG"...... p1ss off.

This aint about teams, while we have brand preference based on emotion we do acknowledge and respect whats nice is nice.
Im a Ford nut, like some Holdens from my youthful memories, think the current V series HSV are cracker, love my Mopars and absolutely adore Alfa's.
Yes im a 1 eyed ford lover whos eyes wander.

Sure I'd drive it. But i wouldn't own it. And those cars in my sig have special sentimental meaning to me. I don't care how fast a car goes. I'm a different kind of enthusiast. But as I said; each to their own.

[GASWAGON]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

It stopped being ford vs Holden a long time ago...
So come 2016, I manage to get the funds together to buy maybe the only brand new car il ever buy and I want a v8 ute.
If ford aren't making them am I just supposed to give up on what I want?

I don't expect anyone to apologise for being one eyed, nothing wrong with brand loyalty.
As for masquerading as a ford fan? Go and **** yourself. I've owned pretty much every model of falcon except for b series, and pre xw.
I love my falcons, but I'm not blind to other brands either.

Why do you have to have a V8....Why not Buy an F6 ute...Just as fast!

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by EF_6

Why do you have to have a V8....Why not Buy an F6 ute...Just as fast!

What's speed got to do with it? if speed was the overriding factor I wouldn't be buying either a Falcon or Commodore.....

Some of us just prefer a V8, why's that so hard to understand.....

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

I thought ford where keeping the r and d development here in oz for other cars around the world after the factorys gone

Ford are. In terms of R&D Falcon /Terri are now that annoying thing that they do. Ford Oz (in terms of R&D) set themselves up back in 02.

Holden on the other hand really don't have much here if Commodore is gone.

[mik]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

They're not bailouts ffs,

maybe they are not bail outs, BUT, they ask for money and get it then a little while down the track ask for more.............. it looks like a bail out !

[SB076]

Originally Posted by mik

maybe they are not bail outs, BUT, they ask for money and get it then a little while down the track ask for more.............. it looks like a bail out !

I think the media are big on labelling them bailouts, however I know in some situations, they are granted assistance through concessions - but I am not 100% sure on how this all works - nor could i put any figures on it.

Previously the government would provide credits which could be used to offset against a purchase. I am sure there is some money provided, but there is usually conditions associated with money (as with the credits or any other form of assistance)

So Holden may have asked for money OR some other form of assistance

[GASWAGON]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

What's speed got to do with it? if speed was the overriding factor I wouldn't be buying either a Falcon or Commodore.....

Some of us just prefer a V8, why's that so hard to understand.....

Point is he could still own a Ford instead of crossing to the dark side.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by EF_6

Point is he could still own a Ford!

why should he compromise?

[nstg8a]

Point is, I like v8s. I spend most of my commute in city traffic, my average speed according to the trip computer is 38kmh... Yes a turbo 6 is faster, cheaper to run, and register.
But I like it when I'm just dawdling along in traffic and I can just hear that v8 burbling away... You don't get that with a 6.

Each to their own, I have nothing but respect for the boosted 6s, hell they used to hand my fg xr8 its *** quite regularly. You know what? I didn't care....

Now I'm driving an au fairlane v8. Sounds like its got 500 hp, goes like its got 150hp. And I love it.


All going to plan come 2015 I will be buying a new car. I'd hope its a new fh falcon. Could well be all I can afford is povo pack xt. Who knows.
But I know damn sure that il be looking at every option at the time. It's simply foolish to be looking to drop 30-40k on a car, and locking yourself into one brand purely based on a badge.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by EF_6

Point is he could still own a Ford instead of crossing to the dark side.

God help someone that they buy what they want to buy!