Holden to come after negative posters/Keyboard warriors,regarding their brand. - Page 3

Junkyard-Dog · 15-03-2019, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ebv8

so you are saying an LS3 pwered RWD cruze would not tickle you in that special place

Not really. They are an ugly car.

CyberWasp · 15-03-2019, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Did Ford or Toyota refund the money they received?

I could be wrong, but Ford would have closed at the end of the FGII Falcon but were coerced into the FGX with some Government funding.
Ford met their obligation with the money as far as I can see.
They didn't take the money and not produce the FGX.

Ben73 · 16-03-2019, 12:31 AM

How very authoritarian of them.

jpd80 · 16-03-2019, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

I could be wrong, but Ford would have closed at the end of the FGII Falcon but were coerced into the FGX with some Government funding.
Ford met their obligation with the money as far as I can see.
They didn't take the money and not produce the FGX.

From what I was told, Production had to end before 1 November, 2016
which was the compulsory date for Falcon and Territory to meet Euro 5.

By 2012, most of Ford's parts were supplied from overseas via For Asia Pacific
and while Falcon and Territory never showed a profit in their last few years,
I am reliably informed that those FAP supplier sales to FoA were quite profitable
to FAP and they were quite happy to continue the arrangement right up to the end.

FGX project funding was approved early 2012 and in August of that year,
Ford bought out FPV including all assets, equipment and IP, so they had
roughly four years from that time to October 2016 to recover as many
costs as possible.

Iggle Piggle · 16-03-2019, 05:35 PM

Aren't we turning this into something it isn't? I don't see where Holden said they will take people to task for saying nasty but truthful things about them, I thought they said they were no longer going to allow mis-truths to not be corrected?

Few years back same thing happened on here with Ford. When people were (rightly) losing their **** over Ford's decision to cease local manufacturing, Sinead Phipps (Ford PR boss) joined the forum and would correct blatant mis-truths that were being posted. Not sure she had a great time and soon gave up.

Junkyard-Dog · 16-03-2019, 07:53 PM

I live near the old Holden manufacturing base at Elizabeth.

A lot of local businesses have been burnt by Holden's decision to pack up and go. Things that you might not even think about - the sandwich place in Elizabeth centre just closed. I know they got a lot of business from Holden workers in the past.

jpd80 · 16-03-2019, 08:15 PM

At least Ford offered a V8 Mustang that many would dismiss as less practical than the 4-door Falcon
and therefore, a sales failure. Rather than argue with posters, Ford let Mustang's sales do the talking...

Holden is quickly transforming itself into a SUV company and I think that's a good idea for now,
getting away from relying so much on car sales and attract some new buyers.

I guarantee that looking after new buyers is far more profitable than worrying about "white noise"
Sometimes, you just gotta let people vent like they do in any divorce....

Syndrome · 16-03-2019, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hackney

So,let the battle begin! A war they cannot win! Word of advice Holden: drop the Commodore nameplate,Just call it Holden Insignia.Get rid of ANY Korean sourced vehicles.You have not much of interest in your range(unfortunately) You have to listen to your potential customers bring it on!

Source?

BENT_8 · 17-03-2019, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Junkyard-Dog

I live near the old Holden manufacturing base at Elizabeth.

A lot of local businesses have been burnt by Holden's decision to pack up and go. Things that you might not even think about - the sandwich place in Elizabeth centre just closed. I know they got a lot of business from Holden workers in the past.

Yet the café directly across the road from the glass house which many of them went to is still open despite not being in a big shopping centre with exposure to thousands of people everyday.

vztrt · 17-03-2019, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iggle Piggle

Aren't we turning this into something it isn't? I don't see where Holden said they will take people to task for saying nasty but truthful things about them,
.

They're not. Some people on here think they're opinion means something in the real world. I'd say you really have to troll on Facebook for Holden to have go.

Junkyard-Dog · 17-03-2019, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Yet the café directly across the road from the glass house which many of them went to is still open despite not being in a big shopping centre with exposure to thousands of people everyday.

I bet they're hurting financially. They are well established but I don't reckon they'll last long.

Tonz · 17-03-2019, 01:54 PM

just started looking at this thread and dont intend to read it all but my 2 bobs worth.... dont we live in a country where free speech is (supposedly) still allowed? then surely we can say what we like about certain people or businesses.

Citroënbender · 17-03-2019, 02:06 PM

Actually there is no explicit permission of free speech / freedom of expression in Australia. Case law provides some guidance and there is “parliamentary privilege” available to our chosen few. It’s a deficiency where I believe the USA actually has a better protection system than ourselves.

vztrt · 17-03-2019, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tonz

just started looking at this thread and dont intend to read it all but my 2 bobs worth.... dont we live in a country where free speech is (supposedly) still allowed? then surely we can say what we like about certain people or businesses.

If what you say is true then yes. Otherwise it's defamation. Funny enough much easier to get away with saying bull on the internet.

yakcam · 17-03-2019, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tonz

just started looking at this thread and dont intend to read it all but my 2 bobs worth.... dont we live in a country where free speech is (supposedly) still allowed? then surely we can say what we like about certain people or businesses.

Nah, people have actually been banned from entering Australia due to what they've said or posted online.

Venomous1 · 17-03-2019, 04:30 PM

should have plenty of time because they are not selling cars.....

Junkyard-Dog · 17-03-2019, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tonz

just started looking at this thread and dont intend to read it all but my 2 bobs worth.... dont we live in a country where free speech is (supposedly) still allowed? then surely we can say what we like about certain people or businesses.

18c says no to that whole free speech thing...

Tassie f100 · 17-03-2019, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tonz

just started looking at this thread and dont intend to read it all but my 2 bobs worth.... dont we live in a country where free speech is (supposedly) still allowed? then surely we can say what we like about certain people or businesses.

You can say things about people and/or companies provided it isn,t malicious or defamatory.

Sabantien · 17-03-2019, 06:30 PM

If they don't want people making negative comments, they probably shouldn't have stupid ads with their car racing a goat, and the goat coming off looking like the better option.

amiers · 18-03-2019, 09:07 AM

Having read this thread I thought I would throw my 2 cents in. I feel what is forgotten in all of this is the lofty position Holden has held in this country for decades. car mag's, tv, radio, newspaper etc. they all pounded us about Australia's own. "football, meat pies, kangaroo's and Holden cars" " the kingswood? your not taking the kingswood" it was relentless. now that is all gone, sure some car mags, one in particular, have tried to kept it alive but it's done. I feel they just cant except the world has moved on and the negative view of their cars is justified, to a point. did they really think people were going to accept a front wheel drive imported car as "our own" we are no longer the people who blindly went and bought a holden because that was the thing to do.

roddy1960 · 18-03-2019, 10:27 AM

Holden and Ford ..

There is a fundamental difference in IMO .

Holdens company originally was a coach builder that was made part of the fabric of GM and was then General Motors Holden particularly when full scale car manufacturing started happening here.

Ford is Ford wherever you go and was always just the Ford Motor Company of Australia. Like Holden we as an outpost were given licence to have our own local products for a longish time and why Falcon ended up being built for 56 years as an example . Holden models , Kingswood , Commodore , Torana and such..

Holden as we say are at the whim of General Motors now , probably always actually , that vehicles carry a GMH logo rather than just a GM logo . Until 2017 when manufacturing was still happening it would have been plain dumb to even consider calling their best seller The "GM Commodore" rather than the Holden Commodore even with a diminishing brand loyalty base in the last years .

No matter what Ford sells in Australia it's still a Ford "whatever " with the blue oval badge . I'm guessing that there is a possibility that the well known local Holden badge may not be as guaranteed to continue especially given the Peugeot etc. goings on now . That will be upsetting to the lessening but still passionate Holden faithful for all sorts of reasons .

lra · 18-03-2019, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roddy1960

I'm guessing that there is a possibility that the well known local Holden badge may not be as guaranteed to continue especially given the Peugeot etc. goings on now . That will be upsetting to the lessening but still passionate Holden faithful for all sorts of reasons .

The Holden faithful are not blind and stupid. A Peugeot replacement Commodore will not happen.
If an AWD sedan was on the shopping list, see Subaru or Audi.
If FWD was on the shopping list, see any Jap, Korean, or Euro,
If you wanted large, inexpensive, reliable RWD to cover big distances, see Falcon or Commodore.
What the Holden faithful are worried about, if Holden packs up completely, who do you go to for spares and warranty, on their Commodores up to the VF2.?

**DFB FGXR6** · 18-03-2019, 06:27 PM

The PSA / Peugeot link is only going to be short lived and I get the feeling going by Holden's latest advertising campaign and comments in the media, that replacements for the current Commodore and Astra hatch/sedan/wagon wont eventuate.

SUV's are rightfully Holden's focus now and to be frank, they are following Ford's lead in reducing focus on low profit models, Spark and Barina are gone and Astra at slash and burn is doing no one favors.

Ben73 · 18-03-2019, 08:38 PM

When I first got online a "keyboard warrior" was someone who would say outrageous things just get a reaction or someone who would threaten violence towards people online but wouldn't say a word IRL.

At some point the meaning changed and now anyone who has an opposing opinion to you is a keyboard warrior.
You see it on this forum all the time. Say you prefer X over Y and you get keyboard warrior insult thrown at you.
I bet someone at Holden who is middle aged or older heard this term and now thinks people who say that Aussie Holden's are better than Import Holden's are keyboard warriors.

Blue Oval Mopar Man · 18-03-2019, 09:51 PM

Ha , good luck with that holden . Its not people bad mouthing your cars thats the problem . The problem is the junk you pass off as motor vehicles and the bad way you treat the poor unfortunates that were dupped into giving you their hard earned money in exchange for your , unreliable , poorly designed and built donkey carts . Just sayin !

MethodX · 19-03-2019, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roddy1960

Holden and Ford ..

There is a fundamental difference in IMO .

Holdens company originally was a coach builder that was made part of the fabric of GM and was then General Motors Holden particularly when full scale car manufacturing started happening here.

Ford is Ford wherever you go and was always just the Ford Motor Company of Australia. Like Holden we as an outpost were given licence to have our own local products for a longish time and why Falcon ended up being built for 56 years as an example . Holden models , Kingswood , Commodore , Torana and such..

Holden as we say are at the whim of General Motors now , probably always actually , that vehicles carry a GMH logo rather than just a GM logo . Until 2017 when manufacturing was still happening it would have been plain dumb to even consider calling their best seller The "GM Commodore" rather than the Holden Commodore even with a diminishing brand loyalty base in the last years .

No matter what Ford sells in Australia it's still a Ford "whatever " with the blue oval badge . I'm guessing that there is a possibility that the well known local Holden badge may not be as guaranteed to continue especially given the Peugeot etc. goings on now . That will be upsetting to the lessening but still passionate Holden faithful for all sorts of reasons .

Not this again...
Both are Yank multinationals.
We saw the "whim" of Ford head office in America when it closed Aus manufacturing.
So because GM had multiple divisions that makes them less valuable..... ok

Ford has/had too btw.

Sabantien · 19-03-2019, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tonz

just started looking at this thread and dont intend to read it all but my 2 bobs worth.... dont we live in a country where free speech is (supposedly) still allowed? then surely we can say what we like about certain people or businesses.

Free speech is not a constitutional right for us here (I think because americans go on about it so much we think it applies to us), and while we are pretty free in that regard, things like libel, slander, hate speech, etc are not allowed.

That said, there's a difference between stating something as a fact and something as an opinion, as well as something you say down the pub to your mates vs publishing it. And internet posts count as publishing.

In any case, Holden hasn't said they're going to sue people over comments, just that they're working to correct misconceptions.
You know, using their free speech to say you're wrong.

Ben73 · 19-03-2019, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabantien

Free speech is not a constitutional right for us here (I think because americans go on about it so much we think it applies to us), and while we are pretty free in that regard, things like libel, slander, hate speech, etc are not allowed.

Even in the USA with their protected free speech, slander and such is still illegal.

Sprintey · 20-03-2019, 05:48 PM

I don't know about baiting Holden, but watching a troll farm of Brunswick hipsters putting out fires all over the internet has quite a bit of amusement value...

**Gothefalcon** · 20-03-2019, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roddy1960

Holdens company originally was a coach builder that was made part of the fabric of GM and was then General Motors Holden particularly when full scale car manufacturing started happening here.

Prior to GM Ownership... Holden built bodies for Model T Fords (amongst other vehicles). This stopped when Ford started it's own production in Geelong. Not long after that is when GM moved in to take over Holden.... and the rest is history !

How different it would have been if Henry chose to absorb them first, instead of going the completely independant route !??

D