Petrol V Gas - Page 3

**Gothefalcon** · 13-09-2014, 09:45 AM

Hi Heath,

My last BF1 was an 2006 E-gas Wagon... I had it from new - 4yrs old, about 168,000Ks... It was a great car for me.. and since then, My Mate Greg has owned & run it as a country Taxi. It now has about 520,000Ks on it... same motor.trans, diff etc. With normal servicing, It has proven to be a completely reliable vehicle. It does backfire through the system on start-up occasionally.. but you'd be talking perhaps 3 times a year.. maybe !?? When it does... it runs a bit rough for a few minutes... and then clears !
Most Vapour "mixer" style systems do this, as the whole inlet manifold get's filled with a volitile fuel/air mix (the same as the engine would)... and if an inlet vslve hasn't quite sealed properly before the spark fires... then "bang" goes the whole lot !
It's fuel economy, for me, was around 15-16L/100 around town... 10.5L/100 open road. With the big 116Ltr (useable) LPG tanks in the Wagon.. it had about a 1000K open road range... and 600 ish K range in town.
E-gas motors produce about 156Kw - 373Nm... but compared to the petrol I6 in normal driving... you'd hardly ever notice the difference.
My Understanding is although LPG has a higher octane rating than Petrol... it produces less energy per litre.... thus you use a little bit more (cars driven exactly the same way). Which ever way you cut it though... the LPG car is cheaper to run.

My BF2 Wagon (the FAWD) has a Vapour injection LPG set-up (dual fuel)... which is much more efficient than the E-gas set-up... and my bumometer would tell me it has slightly less Kw... but slightly more Nm on LPG, compared to when I am running on Petrol. (haven't dyno tuned it yet, to prove otherwise

)
Around town I'd use 1.5-2Ltr/100 on average more than Petrol... and open road... I've got that difference down to around 1-1.5Ltr/100 (unladen).

I've found the more you ask LPG to do... the more of it you'll use (ie: towing). Drive it easy.. it will be fairly efficient.... push it hard and you'll burn through fuel at a much greater rate than an equivalent petrol car ever would. But it'd probably still be cheaper !??

I do 45-50,000Ks a year... and my fuel bill has gone down about $3.5K a year.

The LPI systems are better again... highly efficient... and can produce more KW/Nm than on petrol (if set-up correctly)... and return very similar L/100 figures to it's petrol equivalent.

LPI uses completely different hardware, including the tank set-up, lines, connections, etc... so you can't mix n' match (ie: drop an EcoLpi donk in an old E-gas car) You would need to change over the complete set-up.

Personally... if you want to get an E-gas Falcon... I'd go the Wagon over the Sedan... just for the tank size/fuel range between fills ! You also still have a big boot to use (even with the tyre in there).

Hope some of this helps !?

Dhru

CAMS290 · 14-09-2014, 01:24 AM

I've got a BA Egas ute, I get about 550 kays for $53 bucks, its got plenty of grunt down low but doesnt like being revved like the petrol equivalent.
I use a different Iridium spark plug in mine gapped at 1.1mm, I clean the idle jet and drain the convertor every service and clean the throttle body, it never backfires........they are easy to work on and its old simple technology.

**Mechan1k** · 14-09-2014, 01:52 AM

Haven't been on here in ages.

And I guess I should reply as well .... and Heath at least knows of my BFII work ute as well.

Look .... if you are doing running around duties and not wanting to flog it ... it's still a comfortable Falcon ... still smooth and reliable.

Occasional issues and some little servicing things to keep in mind (idle jet cleaning ... solenoid plunger cleaning, converter drains, etc) That is about it.

Fill when hot may be a pain ... some are worse than others .... easy way to get around it .... fill it on the way to work in Summer when it is still cool.

Around town with load on it used LPG ... but that's just the nature of a mixer ring on a ute with a BTR and 3.23 diff gears ... that allowed first to get you to 95km/h before changing into 2nd .. took a while to wind out.

Still ... I had fun in it ... even though it had no top end ... I think it was 373Nm of torque which was near identical to Petrol ... and I barely took it to redline. 99% of my driving was in the "normal driving range" where torque ruled.

Go for the latest B-series ... You need to think though ... the 2006 BFII's need a tank test in 2 years ... and that's $200-300 depending who does it.

A good reputable LPG mechanic is handy to have .... sorry ... necessary.

Other than that ... it's a Falcon ... and you know them well .... you have a BFII wagon as it is now ... it's the same ... just the fuel delivery is different.

LPG is still cheaper ... although I class mid-70c/L expensive compared to what I used to fill up with when I was doing courier work.

Any more information .... ask away. You still have my number???

Going Sedan or ute?????
Or Wagon?

Wagon has bigger tanks again ... more range ... good for holiday driving

Need to keep in mind vacuum issues pose more of an issue on LPG than petrol .... it's more sensitive. Things like PCV, vacuum lines splitting, intake manifold gasket can be a bug bear. Also some converter related issues that may be hard to fault find can be painful.

Although ... keep in mind Orbital is nearby to you just off Reservoir Rd Blacktown ... ans they did all the Ford R&D for Vialle and the new ECOLPi as well ... parts and servicing ca be done there ... they know these systems better than anyway ... so that helps.

MUST USE FORD COILS ... no cheap ebay ones ... EVER.
Found the standard Motorcraft plugs were perfectly fine.

Never use Woolies LPG ... and Shell is nearly as bad ... Used to find BP and United were better "blends" where I used to live. If you can ... use a higher Propane percentage blend ... runs cleaner .. more power ... not as good on the consumption side. A higher Butane mix can make it feel sluggish but has a better consumption figure ... more noticeable in Summer.

What's you current consumption now in the Wagon????
How many kays a year are you doing????

Vesper Martini · 15-09-2014, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mechan1k

Never use Woolies LPG ... and Shell is nearly as bad ... Used to find BP and United were better "blends" where I used to live. If you can ... use a higher Propane percentage blend ... runs cleaner .. more power ... not as good on the consumption side. A higher Butane mix can make it feel sluggish but has a better consumption figure ... more noticeable in Summer.

Totally agree. I also use Supagas whenever I can

351capri · 15-09-2014, 09:36 PM

Have a ba egas wagon and love it, wife drives it daily, great for comfort and economy, I drive a company fg egas ute and wouldn't swap it for anything else. The egas range from Ford is the most underrated and misjudged group of vehicles ever made. Never promoted properly by Ford . Should have been top sellers. Get your hands on them while you can....

**Mont5.0** · 18-09-2014, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mechan1k

Haven't been on here in ages.

And I guess I should reply as well .... and Heath at least knows of my BFII work ute as well.

Look .... if you are doing running around duties and not wanting to flog it ... it's still a comfortable Falcon ... still smooth and reliable.

Occasional issues and some little servicing things to keep in mind (idle jet cleaning ... solenoid plunger cleaning, converter drains, etc) That is about it.

Fill when hot may be a pain ... some are worse than others .... easy way to get around it .... fill it on the way to work in Summer when it is still cool.

Around town with load on it used LPG ... but that's just the nature of a mixer ring on a ute with a BTR and 3.23 diff gears ... that allowed first to get you to 95km/h before changing into 2nd .. took a while to wind out.

Still ... I had fun in it ... even though it had no top end ... I think it was 373Nm of torque which was near identical to Petrol ... and I barely took it to redline. 99% of my driving was in the "normal driving range" where torque ruled.

Go for the latest B-series ... You need to think though ... the 2006 BFII's need a tank test in 2 years ... and that's $200-300 depending who does it.

A good reputable LPG mechanic is handy to have .... sorry ... necessary.

Other than that ... it's a Falcon ... and you know them well .... you have a BFII wagon as it is now ... it's the same ... just the fuel delivery is different.

LPG is still cheaper ... although I class mid-70c/L expensive compared to what I used to fill up with when I was doing courier work.

Any more information .... ask away. You still have my number???

Going Sedan or ute?????
Or Wagon?

Wagon has bigger tanks again ... more range ... good for holiday driving

Need to keep in mind vacuum issues pose more of an issue on LPG than petrol .... it's more sensitive. Things like PCV, vacuum lines splitting, intake manifold gasket can be a bug bear. Also some converter related issues that may be hard to fault find can be painful.

Although ... keep in mind Orbital is nearby to you just off Reservoir Rd Blacktown ... ans they did all the Ford R&D for Vialle and the new ECOLPi as well ... parts and servicing ca be done there ... they know these systems better than anyway ... so that helps.

MUST USE FORD COILS ... no cheap ebay ones ... EVER.
Found the standard Motorcraft plugs were perfectly fine.

Never use Woolies LPG ... and Shell is nearly as bad ... Used to find BP and United were better "blends" where I used to live. If you can ... use a higher Propane percentage blend ... runs cleaner .. more power ... not as good on the consumption side. A higher Butane mix can make it feel sluggish but has a better consumption figure ... more noticeable in Summer.

What's you current consumption now in the Wagon????
How many kays a year are you doing????

Simon thanks for the detailed reply (you too Dhru

)

Doing around 25k / year and averaging 10-12L/h

**Mechan1k** · 18-09-2014, 08:42 PM

Depending on tune and maintenance and how you drive ... it can differ.

In normal situations ... around our area ... and driving "normally" ... averages of 15-16L/100km would be about right for an EGAS.

Sort miss it in a way .. although I am now on Petrol ... but the FG is frugal for what it is ... so i reckon my consumption is on par petrol to LPG pretty much.

mcflux · 19-09-2014, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Doing around 25k / year and averaging 10-12L/h

Is this in your BF2 XT? If you sold that & bought a BA-BF1 egas you might break even on the cost to swap, & then enjoy cheaper motoring from then on.

If say you installed a (liquid) system on the BF2 XT, it'd probably take about 2.5 years to pay off (roughly 60,000kms assuming $3500 install cost & if there's any rebate left). At such low annual kms it might not be worth the conversion.

**Mont5.0** · 19-09-2014, 01:15 PM

Yes it is my BFII. but the plan is not to sell it, just something to run around in while its off the road..

mcflux · 19-09-2014, 02:22 PM

Is running around in the XR6 an option?

**Mont5.0** · 19-09-2014, 03:20 PM

nope need 2 cars

jobeli · 22-09-2014, 11:31 PM

I have an plain 2012 ECOLPi ute ssb with tonneau, and an 2007 bf2 wagon EGAS. While the ecolpi goes a lot harder, the EGAS is just fine for suburban and highway running. Had it since 170k, now has 276k on it. Other than DIY oil and filter changes by me, no issues or visits to mechanics at all. It drives smooth and quiet, genuinely capable of 1000 kms on a highway tank.
It starts just fine every time. Dirt cheap to run and a magnificent highway cruiser.
Another plus is the old school 4 speed auto, would be very cheap to rebuild if ever needed to, whereas the new high tech autos would be disaster if it failed.
Anyhow, I definetley recommend EGAS wogon 07-09.

JAJH · 23-09-2014, 08:39 AM

I have had LPG cars for many years including an injected Lpg GTP and a dual fuel AU XR8. In my opinion, there is no comparison between the mixer system and injected/Lpi. The GTP went just as hard on both fuels but the XR8 was noticeably down on power when running on LPG. Current car is an FG MK11 XR6 ECOLPI. We have done a trip from the Gold Coast to Melb and back and averaged around 10.9Lt/100klm. Around town is about 13lt/ 100klm. Over the last 3.5months the wife and I have been caravanning up and down the east coast. We are towing around 1.7 tonnes, done about 9000klms and total consumption average is around 16.7lt/ 100klms. I have spoken to a number of other travellers and my figures aren't greatly different the petrol equivalent. I am a big advocate for LPG whether it be work vehicle, a runaround or for towing.

keithedel · 31-10-2014, 01:55 AM

i have been driving a lpg mazda and various lpg falcons for 29yrs , i reckon over that time i have saved about(calculated) $50,000, no joke,my best brag is a trip from canberra to cairns in the mazda in the mid 80s for $80.(maybe it was 40c/litre then!) but there was 4 of us in the car so that was $20 each!!! gee it would would have cost more money in rope and tape to strap 50 ducks together to get us there. seen a ba ex taxi the other day with 1125000km on odo and 2 x xf with 990000km awhile back ,all had orig engines ie matching with vin. dont forget folks ecolpi fg2 is a fast car!!!

Pub247 · 31-10-2014, 10:32 PM

I recently upgraded from petrol ef to BF egas wagon.

The way i justified it was looking at $$ per 100klm. EF was $20 per hundred ($90 for 450 odd klm) for petrol BF is $10 per hundred.(650klm for $65).

Look at it that way i've halved my fuel bill

Nathaan · 02-11-2014, 10:45 PM

Hi all. Just bought a BF XL trayback on dedicated factory gas. Can anyone tell me what gas system this is referred to as? I suppose it's the eGas and that's an older, less efficient mixer system? The engine is a green top. And what kind of mileage I can expect using it to haul stuff around town?

Anyway, it looks great and I'm stoked to be picking it up this week. 130,000km, 1 tonne suspension and in really good nick. I feel like I stole it for just over $5K. Touch wood.

deesun · 03-11-2014, 12:29 AM

Yep mixer, old tech but on the bright side find a taxi mechanic and they will fix lots cheaper than and know lots more than Ford. Keep to the service scedule and all will be rosey. If you dont all will be backfirey.

flooded one · 03-11-2014, 12:59 AM

Gas is alright for saving money and with the exception on Liquid phase injection you will lose some power. I noticed with my old AU sedan and a mates gas powered one there wasn't really much difference performance wise. the petrol seem too have a bit more toe. Fuel economy is crap on Gas but with the cost of LPG vs Petrol, LPG sure does makes up for it. Thou I wonder what people would think of LPG if it was the same cost as petrol?? I personally would never convert a car to Gas. the only Gas powered car I'd have would be one that's been already done and looked after or one thats new from factory. my 2 cents

Nathaan · 03-11-2014, 02:04 PM

Thanks guys. It's got dual tanks I think so range should be pretty good. I will keep that taxi mechanic tip in mind.

danzvtil · 03-11-2014, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathaan

Thanks guys. It's got dual tanks I think so range should be pretty good. I will keep that taxi mechanic tip in mind.

Youre gonna use around 18-20 l/100 in an old egas around town. Don't be fooled by the twin tanks, theyre far from long range, my last 2 egasers I was getting 350/400 per tank maybe 450-500 on the highway.

Nathaan · 03-11-2014, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danzvtil

Youre gonna use around 18-20 l/100 in an old egas around town. Don't be fooled by the twin tanks, theyre far from long range, my last 2 egasers I was getting 350/400 per tank maybe 450-500 on the highway.

18-20 doesn't sound so bad. It's pretty much what I figured as I think the claimed city cycle is 15.9 or something close. The alternative vehicles were 4 cyl Jap utes and I hear most of them are realistically about 14l/100 and I would have had to get a manual. So I'm still thinking the egas will be a bit cheaper and a whole lot better to drive.

And yeah, did some reading today and realised they're not not long range tanks. Bummer, but I can live with that kinda range. Thanks.

mcflux · 04-11-2014, 07:23 AM

If it's highway cruising you will see beyond 600kms/tank, but as mentioned they do get thirsty around town. $5k is damn good coin for a BF ute!

Nathaan · 04-11-2014, 11:51 AM

I'd be ecstatic if I could get 600km on the freeway, although it won't be going on too many long drives. Still, it will do a fair bit of suburban stuff and not just city work so that should be good.

And yeah, I scoured the web for a week or so and couldn't really find anything comparable under about $8k so I jumped on it. Will need rego soon tho.