Is the Golden Era of Oz Cricket Over? - Page 3

Rodp · 31-01-2009, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corzza

Im just so very proud of the Proteas for getting stuck in. They have for years been the underdogs and have by far been the only team with the gumption to take it to the aussies over the last decade. And it has finally paid off.

Again, I'm watching a different game to everyone else...?

Aus has beat SA 11 times and lost 3 times in '10 years' (2 of those wins being *this series*) = 1 series win for SA.

Aus has beat India 9 times and lost 7 times in '10 years' = 2 series wins and 1 drawn for India.

Australia's nemesis has been India for the last 10 years. SA haven't come close to beating the Australian team in the last 10 years.

XR8putts · 31-01-2009, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodp

Again, I'm watching a different game to everyone else...?

Aus has beat SA 11 times and lost 3 times in '10 years' (2 of those wins being *this series*) = 1 series win for SA.

Aus has beat India 9 times and lost 7 times in '10 years' = 2 series wins and 1 drawn for India.

Australia's nemesis has been India for the last 10 years. SA haven't come close to beating the Australian team in the last 10 years.

You must be watching a different game!

No-one is denying Australia has been the best cricketing nation over the last decade, this is a fact. The thread and the thread content is discussing the recent downfall of Australian cricket. Your statistics seem bang-on and they highlight how dominant the Aussie team has been, but it dosn't represent their recent form.

As it has been said many times in this thread, it happens. It will make Sunday that much more intense. NZ never likes losing to Australia in any sport and they believe they have a chance to add to Australia's woes, in Australia. Meanwhile Australia will set out to prove they still got it by thrashing NZ.

Rodp · 31-01-2009, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by puts99

You must be watching a different game!

No-one is denying Australia has been the best cricketing nation over the last decade, this is a fact. The thread and the thread content is discussing the recent downfall of Australian cricket. Your statistics seem bang-on and they highlight how dominant the Aussie team has been, but it dosn't represent their recent form.

Then you must be misinterpreting my post. It helps to read the part that I quoted to understand the context of why I posted the stats. It wasn't in any way to try and suggest that Australia are still in top form.

It was refuting the claim that SA has been the only team to challenge Australia's dominance in the last 10 years. It's patently false. India have been doing so consistently for the last 10 years, SA have done it this season only.

Corzza · 01-02-2009, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodp

Then you must be misinterpreting my post. It helps to read the part that I quoted to understand the context of why I posted the stats. It wasn't in any way to try and suggest that Australia are still in top form.

It was refuting the claim that SA has been the only team to challenge Australia's dominance in the last 10 years. It's patently false. India have been doing so consistently for the last 10 years, SA have done it this season only.

In the past 10 years india have been sitting pretty at 3 in the rankings. Even though they hold a better record VS Aus in the tests.

anyways im talking about one dayers here not tests

Aus has 18 one day wins to SA's 13 against each other in the past 10 years

SA is still number 2 in the world rankings for tests even though they have only won a few test matches VS Aus in the last 10 years. And now have top spot in the one dayers. I feel not for long though

DoreSlamR · 01-02-2009, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodp

Then you must be misinterpreting my post. It helps to read the part that I quoted to understand the context of why I posted the stats. It wasn't in any way to try and suggest that Australia are still in top form.

It was refuting the claim that SA has been the only team to challenge Australia's dominance in the last 10 years. It's patently false. India have been doing so consistently for the last 10 years, SA have done it this season only.

Don't forget India's wickets are specifically made to suit spinners, I think Kumble's 10for a couple of years ago is good evidence of that.

This obviously makes it tough for any team who don't have good spinners to win there.

Rodp · 01-02-2009, 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corzza

In the past 10 years india have been sitting pretty at 3 in the rankings. Even though they hold a better record VS Aus in the tests.

anyways im talking about one dayers here not tests

Aus has 18 one day wins to SA's 13 against each other in the past 10 years

SA is still number 2 in the world rankings for tests even though they have only won a few test matches VS Aus in the last 10 years. And now have top spot in the one dayers. I feel not for long though

Oh, ok. In that case SA have been very competitive in that regard though I take little stock in the pajama versions of the game.

Rodp · 01-02-2009, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoreSlamR

Don't forget India's wickets are specifically made to suit spinners, I think Kumble's 10for a couple of years ago is good evidence of that.

This obviously makes it tough for any team who don't have good spinners to win there.

It's safe to assume that most countries bowlers are tailored to their home conditions. We favoured quicks due to our fast and bouncy wickets just as India have good stocks of spinners due to to their dry and crumbly wickets.

If you were to concede that Warne and Murali were the two best spinners outside of India in the last 10 years and look at their records in India then it's more than just being able to spin the ball to be successful there. Not only do they produce good spinners but, unsurprisingly, can play spin very well.

prydey · 01-02-2009, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodp

It's safe to assume that most countries bowlers are tailored to their home conditions. We favoured quicks due to our fast and bouncy wickets just as India have good stocks of spinners due to to their dry and crumbly wickets.

If you were to concede that Warne and Murali were the two best spinners outside of India in the last 10 years and look at their records in India then it's more than just being able to spin the ball to be successful there. Not only do they produce good spinners but, unsurprisingly, can play spin very well.

there's an understatement for you. on an even half decent pitch M.Clarke would never achieve figures of 6/9. mind you the scg looked a bit like mumbai recently but it did actually play a lot better than it looked.

your last statement is in contrast to the aussies at the moment too. D.Martyn was a major part of the reason why we won in india last tour. katich plays spin reasonably well but no one else springs to mind.

JC · 01-02-2009, 10:14 AM

We need someone like A Morkel - SA would not have won 4 games without him (well, 3 of them at least). And D Warner may one day be our version of Morkel, but he is just starting out so has a way to go to prove himself and perform consistently.

Rodp · 01-02-2009, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

there's an understatement for you. on an even half decent pitch M.Clarke would never achieve figures of 6/9. mind you the scg looked a bit like mumbai recently but it did actually play a lot better than it looked.

your last statement is in contrast to the aussies at the moment too. D.Martyn was a major part of the reason why we won in india last tour. katich plays spin reasonably well but no one else springs to mind.

The pitch you describe was an absolute disaster of a pitch and obviously doctored to suit the Indians but ended up being too treacherous even for them. I recall being in training during that week, finishing early and watching the match with a couple of Indian colleagues. Was interesting times indeed! The SCG doesn't crumble like it once did though. AB took 11/96 against the Windies at the end of their prime. ;)

Hayden was the only Aussie batsmen that I can recall in recent times that absolutely dominated the Indian's in India. The series they lost from an almost unbeatable position, IIRC his average was a smidge over 100. He clobbered them all over the park and used the sweep to perfection. Never really re-captured that form against them though.

I don't get much confidence from Katich opening to be honest, he has strung together some reasonable scores including a well batted ton in India but I just think he's a little too old to invest in and they should be looking for a younger opening combination to build upon ala Hayden/Langer.

XR8putts · 01-02-2009, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoreSlamR

Don't forget India's wickets are specifically made to suit spinners, I think Kumble's 10for a couple of years ago is good evidence of that.

This obviously makes it tough for any team who don't have good spinners to win there.

Using Indian pitches as an excuse for Australia's performances over there is getting a bit old don't you think? Yes the pitches are dry, but have you actually been to India? I have, four times, and trust me it is a dry country. Water is valuable resource! Sure, they create pitches to favour their team, just like Australia did a few years back with green pitches when Lee was in form and swinging left and right and nowadays with bouncy pitches. India is hard to beat in India, but no more so than Australia is hard to beat in Australia. Both countries are extremly hot and have very passionate fans, but for some reason traveling to India and being able to have a fair contest seems impossible in the eyes of some Australians, in my opinion it's a lame excuse. We only have to look at the last test series in Australia to see that pitches are an element of the game, but the beauty is that both teams have to deal with it. If spinners are what you need to win in India, then take spinners. Just like how SA and India bring their pace bowlers when they tour Australia.

gtxb67 · 01-02-2009, 01:49 PM

i think people can under estimate how difficult it is for the indians in australia - very similar to the australians in india. totally different cultures, pitches and more importantly menus. it is only recently that both teams have had a realistic opportunity to win away from home

i have always considered south africa to be the best team (except us and sometimes better). they have been very consistent since 92 - there was only one team they could not seem to beat - us
the indians over the last 10 years have put in some great efforts against australia and in my opinion have stepped up to the plate and raised their game to beat the best at their own game

Corzza · 01-02-2009, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtxb67

i think people can under estimate how difficult it is for the indians in australia - very similar to the australians in india. totally different cultures, pitches and more importantly menus. it is only recently that both teams have had a realistic opportunity to win away from home

i have always considered south africa to be the best team (except us and sometimes better). they have been very consistent since 92 - there was only one team they could not seem to beat - us
the indians over the last 10 years have put in some great efforts against australia and in my opinion have stepped up to the plate and raised their game to beat the best at their own game

I agree SA have always found it very difficult to beat Aus. Over the years it has been the fear of Warne, Mcgrath, Gilly, Hayden, The waughs. Its understandable that it has been difficult to beat the aussies because they have been the number 1 side for a very long time. But as you say SA have been consistant.

This current Aussie side has youth with a great captain. It wont be long before they dominate again.

Corzza · 01-02-2009, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JC

We need someone like A Morkel - SA would not have won 4 games without him (well, 3 of them at least). And D Warner may one day be our version of Morkel, but he is just starting out so has a way to go to prove himself and perform consistently.

Warner is their answer. I say bring warner in at 5 and he dominate. But then again you have the likes of Haddin, Hussey& hopes who can be the A morkel for the aussies. Plenty of talent in the Aussie side

prydey · 01-02-2009, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corzza

.

This current Aussie side has youth with a great captain. It wont be long before they dominate again.

hmm thats opening up a huge debate right there. in my opinion he is not. others are entitled to there's.

**buggerlugs** · 01-02-2009, 02:29 PM

Its ok,the Aussies will be treated like heroes once again after they beat that "TOUGH" New Zealand team in the one dayers.........

Corzza · 01-02-2009, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buggerlugs

Its ok,the Aussies will be treated like heroes once again after they beat that "TOUGH" New Zealand team in the one dayers.........

They not off to a good start

Coogs289 · 01-02-2009, 05:30 PM

5/99 :togo: what's wrong with us?

:

DoreSlamR · 01-02-2009, 05:50 PM

I was just about to say Haddin and Hussey were forming a good partnership...

...But Haddin just jagged one onto the stumps...

*sigh*

Jason[98.EL] · 01-02-2009, 06:26 PM

yes the golden era is over

how the hell can au be 7 for 152

but it is a good time for the aussies here time to build a new golden team

gtxb67 · 01-02-2009, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grimus

how the hell can au be 7 for 152

i was thinking more like - how the hell can the captain and vice captain run themselves out so pathetically. if we cannot rely on the players with those two titles, what chance do we have

we know how good the new zealanders have been recently and those two just throw their wickets away. real smart when 5 of the other guys are relatively inexperienced. that leaves us with michael hussey to save us - again, but he can't do it everytime

prydey · 01-02-2009, 07:36 PM

no point thrashing them in the first game or the crowds won't come to the other games. all going to plan.

also $1.20's no good to anyone

:

Corzza · 01-02-2009, 08:00 PM

The umpires on the aussies side haha

McCullum lbw Tait LOL!!!! Did you see that inside edge

XR8putts · 01-02-2009, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corzza

The umpires on the aussies side haha

McCullum lbw Tait LOL!!!! Did you see that inside edge

A blind man could've seen that.

prydey · 01-02-2009, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by puts99

A blind man could've seen that.

a blind man did!! remember our home series with india last summer. andrew symonds smacked it through to the keeper and was given not out. 1 test later, tendulker smashed it into gilly's gloves and not called. pretty sure on both ocassions bucknor was umpire. as good as he may have been, he was dreadful then and in my opinion should be stood down. get the new guys in.

he actually was stood down because india threatened to take their bat and ball and go home.

XR8putts · 01-02-2009, 08:56 PM

I believe it was the new Australian umpire that gave McCullum out, and from what I've seen of him, he's just as bad as Bucknor. Not the start we're looking for..

In regards to the India tour, don't get me started. :(

gtxb67 · 01-02-2009, 09:07 PM

you win some and lose some with umpires
sure we have had some good decisions over the years, but have lost at least 2 test series through dud decisions
west indies - adelaide 93 - 1 run - mcdermott did not hit it but was given out
england - second test 2005 - 2 runs - kasper did not hit it but was given out

i would give back our good decisions, to have won those tests and therefore series
none of the other teams matter to most australians - we just want to beat the windies and england

Corzza · 01-02-2009, 10:00 PM

Things are getting very tight

XR8putts · 01-02-2009, 10:27 PM

That is BS to say the least.. I'm fuming over here.

Now you can smack the wickets with your gloves and claim it was bowled.

Edit: Haddin would've known, theres just no way he wouldn't have. Since when can you put your hands infront of the wickets?! He's no Gilly thats for sure. :evil3:

prydey · 01-02-2009, 11:50 PM

shows how important it is to bat out the overs no matter what. admittedly we had a little help from the umps but thats cricket. australia don't help themselves out. nz had 2 extras. australia had 11. thats nearly 2 extra overs bowled and too many free runs.