Online shopping v Local shopping - Page 3

Ducati888 · 22-12-2010, 01:52 PM

The federal government alcohol tax would have a lot to do with the local vs OS wine prices & would be the reason why it's cheaper to buy it in USA rather than up the road.

Fev · 22-12-2010, 02:04 PM

The Alco-tax was the biggest rip-off this century...

Has anyone noticed the prices of alcohol actually drop to what they used to be since it was dumped? We complained about this to our local bottle shops and they said once they were out of the product they bought at those inflated prices (think an extra $5 for a 4-pack of JD Coke) we will drop the price back to the original pre-tax prices...

Did the price ever drop? Yes by about $2.. So basically what that Tax did was increase the price of pre-mixed by about $3 within 3 months but put a different spin on what actually happened so the general consumer didn't pick up on it all that well.

I'm sure we've noticed the same sort of tactics on other items on the market.

XB GS 351 Coupe · 22-12-2010, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

I think the thing people really struggle to understand, which is born out in some of the simplistic views on this topic, is the cost of the overheads and running a business... Wages can make up over 50% of the outgoings in most businesses alone, then rent, power etc etc... Buy ins like stock can in many cases only make up a small % of total costs..
There's no point selling your product at a "market forced price point" if its below your cost... you'll go broke in a month.

Things like Boxing day sales simply allow stores to clear excess stock after they've made enough return on the combined purchases for the month...

I do not care about any of that, if the business is not sustainable and can not compete how is that my problem??? Why should I donate my hard earned $$$ to them, and go without things I want or need just to sustain a business that has given me nothing, when I can but the exact same item for a fraction of the cost allowing me to buy more of what I want and need.

If I want to open a business selling hamburgers, and I need to charge $20 per cheeseburger to make a profit it's not a sustainable business. So it will there for not exist.

If you have a shop and you can not compete with the open market you are not running a sustainable business. Your problem not mine.

People suggesting we should support local business, throwing our money away so local business that are not sustainable can keep operating in a micro economy of the local area live in a dream world. We now live in a global economy, where I can get my stuff from the US/China/etc etc faster than what most Australian based companies can supply me. and mostly with much better customer service and at a fraction of the cost as well.

MAD · 22-12-2010, 02:30 PM

The premix prices have come down because most of the them have reduced the amount of alcohol in them. less alcohol, less tax.

XB GS 351 Coupe · 22-12-2010, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HP4ME

Xb gs 351 you lost me man

How so, its very simple you have X amount of $$$ that you will earn in your life time, every one of those $$$ you can only spend once. If you waste them on paying extra for things you can get cheaper means you will have less money to spend on other things you may want.

And we all want, especially if you are into cars....

pottery beige · 22-12-2010, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

I do not care about any of that, if the business is not sustainable and can not compete how is that my problem??? Why should I donate my hard earned $$$ to them, and go without things I want or need just to sustain a business that has given me nothing, when I can but the exact same item for a fraction of the cost allowing me to buy more of what I want and need.

If I want to open a business selling hamburgers, and I need to charge $20 per cheeseburger to make a profit it's not a sustainable business. So it will there for not exist.

If you have a shop and you can not compete with the open market you are not running a sustainable business. Your problem not mine.

People suggesting we should support local business, throwing our money away so local business that are not sustainable can keep operating in a micro economy of the local area live in a dream world. We now live in a global economy, where I can get my stuff from the US/China/etc etc faster than what most Australian based companies can supply me. and mostly with much better customer service and at a fraction of the cost as well.

you need a better paying job so you dont need to be such a tight ***.....

MAD · 22-12-2010, 02:43 PM

Gerry wont go into business to lose money, why should I lose money to his business?
It all comes back to the individual, and none of them want to waste money.

This is a 50:50 two way street.

GreenR · 22-12-2010, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

If the big retailers are feeling the hurt they will have to do what the market is demanding, cut the profits and pass the savings onto the consumer. Times have now changed, we have another option.

Rather than whining, they should look at their own business and make it more competitive.

I will never feel sorry for someone with $2b net worth .

+1 Agreed . Harvey Norman profited $290 million by the end of August this year. (already a 16% increase) So at the conclusion of 2010 that figure is expected to be somewhere around or over the $400 million profit. And yet it is our selfishness as a consumer who is ruining the retail industry?

efi65 · 22-12-2010, 02:57 PM

to pottery beige, are you a bussiness owner or what? i used to have my workshop so i was in retail, wholesale and manufactering,I know personally how much mark up some retaillers put on there products, one such company put in excess of 200 % . And you cant try and say the excuse of there overheads for the mark up on the price , it was/ is greed, the more you sell the higher your turn over and the higher your turn over the cheaper you get your product for, if you decide to go into bussiness you should worked out your overheads to see if you can make/sell the product at a competive price, the thing retaillers have to understand the days of price gouging are over

pottery beige · 22-12-2010, 03:03 PM

i work / live in a very remote community.. they run a massive 'buy local' campaign to help keep money in the town... der it promotes wealth, employment + good things in the community.. theres some micro economics to stuff in ya pipe and smoke.....

GreenR · 22-12-2010, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pottery beige

i work / live in a very remote community.. they run a massive 'buy local' campaign to help keep money in the town... der it promotes wealth, employment + good things in the community.....

Not all of us live in "remote'' communities

pottery beige · 22-12-2010, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plarazza

Not all of us live in "remote'' communities

even more reason why you can by local.......... soggy tomatoes up here suck.....

fmc351 · 22-12-2010, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

I think the thing people really struggle to understand, which is born out in some of the simplistic views on this topic, is the cost of the overheads and running a business... Wages can make up over 50% of the outgoings in most businesses alone, then rent, power etc etc... Buy ins like stock can in many cases only make up a small % of total costs..
There's no point selling your product at a "market forced price point" if its below your cost... you'll go broke in a month.

Things like Boxing day sales simply allow stores to clear excess stock after they've made enough return on the combined purchases for the month...

You dont get a net worth of 2 billion dollars by having margins so close to the edge either. Yes he has other investments, but if that was the bulk of his wealth, he would already be out of the retail game and more heavily in those 'other' investments. You dont end up with that wealth by being generous or an idiot. Without online he has limited competition. Let the market sort it. A free market is exactly that, without heavy competition, you get gouging. Waltons came and went, we now have Harvey Norman, Joyce Mayne, Clive Peeters, WOW, JB etc etc. They come, and they go.

We are clowns if we pass up the rare opportunity of dollar parity, and hand the benefits over to someone who already has a shedload more than we do. What youre suggesting is the exact opposite of what Gerry would do, failing to capitalise on your advantage.

You may want to see someone to remove the hook, line and sinker. Sorry, I take that back. I see from your post on your business, you have a vested interest.

geckoGT · 22-12-2010, 04:19 PM

Discussions such as this always remind me of a patient I transported once. It was during the time that the GFC was starting to really take hold and car yards were all stating that life was tough and the world was going to end. The man I transported owned a number of smaller car yards across brisbane (by his own admission). I commented on how nice his house was in general conversation (it was huge), to which he answered "this is just an interim house we bought while our real house is built, it was delayed because of the architect". The house would have been nothing less than 1-1.5m worth. I also noted the Lamborghini Gallardo, BMW M6 and BMW 7 series in the garage, complimented him on the Lambo to which he responded "yes it is nice but I am going to get rid of it, I will have to get the Murcielago as it is a much better car". That is without mentioning the other bits and pieces around the house or his wife dripping in gold. I bet that this guy has nothing on the likes of the CEO of Harvey Norman, Coles Myer, Linfox etc.

If that is doing it tough, the poor things, my heart really bleeds for them. It is always the same story, the guys at the top with the most power and the greatest margin for sacrifice before life gets anywhere near uncomfortable, make the least amount of sacrifice when times get tough.

I am all for buying local from the smaller locally owned and operated but as for supporting the larger corporations, not a hope. In my view they can be competitive or die, there will be another to replace them.

GT 160 · 22-12-2010, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plarazza

+1 Agreed . Harvey Norman profited $290 million by the end of August this year. (already a 16% increase) So at the conclusion of 2010 that figure is expected to be somewhere around or over the $400 million profit. And yet it is our selfishness as a consumer who is ruining the retail industry?

Only $400 million ???

Those race horses and pubs he buys with singo don't buy themselves.

Franco Cozzo · 22-12-2010, 04:33 PM

I managed to pick up a lot of brand new DeWalt tools from the states online for incredibly cheap prices compared to here, I got the 18V XRP cordless hammer drill, 18v cordless fluro light, 18V 1/2" cordless impact gun, 18V cordless wet and dry vac and 4 18V XRP Batteries shipped to my house from USA for $800 AUD, by normal shipping it only took 6 days to go from USA to my door.

The only problem was I had to buy the battery charger here at Australia's "Recomended Ripoff Pricing", which set me back $150 for the charger alone ($55 in the USA), it took 5 days to come from Queensland...

Oh, and a pair of Caterpillar Endure boots for $150 delivered.

Overseas stores online > Australian retail

fmc351 · 22-12-2010, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Discussions such as this always remind me of a patient I transported once. It was during the time that the GFC was starting to really take hold and car yards were all stating that life was tough and the world was going to end. The man I transported owned a number of smaller car yards across brisbane (by his own admission). I commented on how nice his house was in general conversation (it was huge), to which he answered "this is just an interim house we bought while our real house is built, it was delayed because of the architect". The house would have been nothing less than 1-1.5m worth. I also noted the Lamborghini Gallardo, BMW M6 and BMW 7 series in the garage, complimented him on the Lambo to which he responded "yes it is nice but I am going to get rid of it, I will have to get the Murcielago as it is a much better car". That is without mentioning the other bits and pieces around the house or his wife dripping in gold. I bet that this guy has nothing on the likes of the CEO of Harvey Norman, Coles Myer, Linfox etc.

If that is doing it tough, the poor things, my heart really bleeds for them. It is always the same story, the guys at the top with the most power and the greatest margin for sacrifice before life gets anywhere near uncomfortable, make the least amount of sacrifice when times get tough.

I am all for buying local from the smaller locally owned and operated but as for supporting the larger corporations, not a hope. In my view they can be competitive or die, there will be another to replace them.

I can see it now. Gerry pulls up at the double wide imported hand crafted electric gates of his estate driving his own Maybach telling us how sad it is he had to let go his driver and that the driver had a mortgage and young family to support.

trippytaka · 22-12-2010, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fmc351

I can see it now. Gerry pulls up at the double wide imported hand crafted electric gates of his estate driving his own Maybach telling us how sad it is he had to let go his driver and that the driver had a mortgage and young family to support.

Say what you will about Gerry but after having worked for and with him over at head office he is certainly not any of that. He never dresses any differently than a pair of chinos and an old sweater, he drives an understated car and is not in any way flashy. He is extremely tight with his money and if you met him on the street (and didn't recognise who he is) you would think he was just an average joe.

Not that I am sticking up for the Harvey Norman business in any way. The whole franchisee structure is destined to take a hit from online retailers and discounters like JB Hi-Fi.

Anyway... 4V, I think it was you before that mentioned wages and businesses having to be sustainable. All very true. Very true.

To the person before who said that they don't care about a business being local or overseas and you have the right to put your hard earned where you want... all I ask is that you think about what ever industry you are in and imagine that overseas workers were allowed to come into Australia and do your job, free of the minimum wages, free from unions, free from workers compensation and superannuation.

How long do you think you would be in a job?

The fact is that we all want things cheaper, but ultimately our economy will be worse off if we're all taking the cheaper overseas options.

Meh... we're all doomed anyway.

XB GS 351 Coupe · 22-12-2010, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pottery beige

you need a better paying job so you dont need to be such a tight ***.....

I give up.

You obviously don't get it, and have no interest in expanding your horizons or learning something new.

GreenR · 22-12-2010, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fitzwa

Only $400 million ???

Those race horses and pubs he buys with singo don't buy themselves.

That is a gross profit figure. And only from the Harvey Norman franchise. Take into account everything else and investments etc that would sky rocket I'm sure.

trippytaka · 22-12-2010, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plarazza

That is a gross profit figure. And only from the Harvey Norman franchise. Take into account everything else and investments etc that would sky rocket I'm sure.

One of the big investments they have is land... all those super centres etc.

**ebxr8240** · 22-12-2010, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pottery beige

i work / live in a very remote community.. they run a massive 'buy local' campaign to help keep money in the town... der it promotes wealth, employment + good things in the community.. theres some micro economics to stuff in ya pipe and smoke.....

Yep agree with that..
But HN buys most his stock from overseas !!!.

geckoGT · 22-12-2010, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ebxr8240

Yep agree with that..
But HN buys most his stock from overseas !!!.

Often the same place you can buy it online, only they buy it cheaper so that goes to show the mark up on it.

GreenR · 22-12-2010, 05:32 PM

To bad USA is not the same region code as here. That would be something else I would be buying online over retail shops.

stefbec · 22-12-2010, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plarazza

To bad USA is not the same region code as here. That would be something else I would be buying online over retail shops.

What you don't have a region free DVD player or the local kids selling burnt movies from down the road.
Or the kids Xbox360 flashed the Wii chipped the DS with a mod card or what ever other gaming console or movie playing device.

If you can't get it local sure buy overseas, all multinational companies are here to screw us for share holder dividends but then most of prob work for a multinational or knows someone that does.

Its a all a juggling act but its your money do what u want with it.

blueoval · 22-12-2010, 07:54 PM

Very interesting thread.

I can see both sides the valid points people make.

I hate greed with a passion. But I also do not like to see our locals not being supported.

A hard task to deal with and if businesses want to remain competitive, while not sacrificing quality for profit, they need to either reduce the profit plans or offer larger incentives to the consumer to get them into their stores. I think the latter will most probably be the avenue they will take.

There is no quick fix here. But the consumer will change the market and companies will need to conform to remain in the game. There is no point for CEO's to complain about people buying online if that is where the trend lies. Savings and large quantities of savings mind you, are on peoples minds. In some of these instances of examples people have posted up here, there is MASSIVE differences buying on line compared to retail outlets. Yes some of it is attributed to rent, wages, outgoings and overheads etc. But I still believe these larger companies are making a killing as have been said.

Company directors have to have their outlook on consumers and profits adjusted to conform to today's market or they will be the ones to miss out, and hopefully not ask the governments for handouts in the meantime.

my 2c

302 XC · 22-12-2010, 08:04 PM

One main reason i buy on line
Is the distance i now live from the major towns (100++Ks one way)
3KG parcel posted anywhere in australia for under $10
Gee to drive to the nearest major town stings the wallet near $60 in fuel

There are people making overseas and importing the same product i make here and selling cheaper than my core cost (pre profit)
How do i compete with that ???
Alot of retailers i supply here mark up minimum of 100%

Yes anyone can sell on line,but is it fair to blame others for low product selling
Whos next ???,Real estate agents blaming others for slow sales
Cmon who really is flush lately,we all have to make the dollar stretch further
So now we are all to blame because we shop around a bit more ???
Nothin is stopping anyone if they want to jump on the online gravy train

1977xc · 22-12-2010, 08:19 PM

This guy has been reeping in millions and still will . He has virtually cornered the market and put smaller retailers out of buisness the same as Bunnings . We all work 200 times harder than he does to rip us off and the big retailers should look in there own backyards and not pay there executives mega bux and drive big company cars and reduce there running costs to make things cheaper and give less to there money hungry share holders . Up yours Gerald !

**buggerlugs** · 22-12-2010, 08:26 PM

And now companies like Myer are looking to get in on the act by setting up on line shops in China so we can purchase at a cheaper price and don't have to pay the Grab and Snatch Tax.......

The G6ET Spot · 22-12-2010, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1977xc

This guy has been reeping in millions and still will . He has virtually cornered the market and put smaller retailers out of buisness the same as Bunnings . We all work 200 times harder than he does to rip us off and the big retailers should look in there own backyards and not pay there executives mega bux and drive big company cars and reduce there running costs to make things cheaper and give less to there money hungry share holders . Up yours Gerald !

Although I do agree with you about the large companies having large mark ups, if you knew where Gerry Harvey started you wouldn't have made the statement that I highlighted.

Just about everything electrical that goes into retailers these days is imported and as such the retailers are making a killing on them by way of their bulk buying capacity.

If you really want to know where they shaft you big time it is in the furniture sections of the stores.

When I started in the furniture industry some 30 years ago, somewhere between 50-90% markup was the norm. A mid range lounge suite was suite was $4-500.

Now a mid range lounge suite is around $2500 and their mark up is anything up to 250%. You do the sums and it will scare the daylights out of you.

A member on the forums was looking for a new mattress and the best price he was able to get was $4900, I was able to get it through the manufacturer for him for $2200 and he was able to keep $2700 in his own pocket.

Now I am all for people in business making a profit but when they make such large profits and then go on bleeting about people buying online then I lose all sympathy for them.

Also don't under estimate Gerry Harvey's pull with governments and other big business regarding this subject. Just look here and see what is happening already. It has everyone talking about it and that was his aim all along.