Psychos in the Auto-Repair Business

[Franco Cozzo]

Small wins like that can be good for business, I gave some free **** to a bus fleet and they started buying said freebie product in the thousands of bucks at a time a few months later but thats from a supplier perspective.

Also given out freebies to workshops for an opportunity to get feedback on a product we just brought to market for BA-FG Falcon - contacted a couple locally, none were interested and no response so contacted one in Adelaide who was keen.

They got the product for free and a couple of sets of front/rear brake pads for their troubles.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Small wins like that can be good for business, I gave some free **** to a bus fleet and they started buying said freebie product in the thousands of bucks at a time a few months later but thats from a supplier perspective.

Also given out freebies to workshops for an opportunity to get feedback on a product we just brought to market - contacted a couple locally, none were interested and no response so contacted one in Adelaide who was keen.

Yeah you're right there, this guy know how to treat his customers.
I've been back several times since, sometimes waiting until I'm back in Sydney to do exhaust mods.

[mick taylor]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

You'd think by now I would be over it, but I never cease to be amazed at the psychos and dickheads that pollute the auto-repair industry.
Not only do I wonder why they chose to go into business for themselves, but I am astonished that they stay in business.

I need an expensive, but straightforward, job done on my car. Buy the rebuilt component, fit it, use consumables. A + B + C. I deal every day with suppliers who can quote a multi-million dollar project, down to the last dollar. Yet these muppets can't even quote a simple job on my car.
And in addition to being unprofessional dickheads about it, some are outright psychotic. Like the guy, who instead of replying to my email like a normal person, went to the effort of typing his comments all through my email, and all in BRIGHT RED CAPS.

I initially contacted three local workshops, and got nothing, so gradually expanded. I have now contacted 8, and ironically the most professional replies I received were from those apologising that they couldn't do the work required.
A couple that did respond, telling me to phone them, I did waste my time and phone. Only to confirm what I suspected, that they were f_ckwits and didn't want to give a quote.

I had the one nutjob, who having assured me that he only fitted genuine factory rebuilt units, then said he couldn't give me a quote until he had the car on the hoist. When I asked why, he said that he needed to strip the unit to "see what needed doing"? When I asked why the heck he would do that, he admitted that he planned to do the rebuild himself.

Yes, I appreciate that a lot of buyers are "only lookin for tha cheepest price", but so what?
And sure, of all the quotes you do, maybe only 10% will result in orders. But again, so what? You're running a business aren't you?

I'm not even asking them to generate a formal quote. I'm happy with a one line answer "it will cost $x."

And yes, I can and have "simply phoned" some, only to encounter the predicted dodgyness when I asked them to email the quote; "oh yeah, me computa's playin-up at the moment".

It's the same in every business many idiots survive due to conniving and cunning. they even will claim that they are the best a mate builder was putting this forward about how great he was and I informed him otherwise, he came across as if I would not know, well I only have experience from 1971 and I know builders who were a pleasure to work for that I admired, there was one price for them and one would have to charge more for the idiots because you loose making money working for the simpletons, but then came the days when you could not quote a job. they set us up so you accept what they give and that's when the building industry became a dogs dinner.
The builders demanded me to cut corners or they would try and destroy my reputation, I would say look this or that has to be done, no ! they would say, this is what others do, well I don't care what they will do, they don't know any better, I would kick their **** if they worked for me doing the crap that they do.

I was going to get a op on my knee and on the way in I met a Doctor that I worked on her house, well talking to this one doing my knee, he had a real bad run in with a tiler on his house and he was telling me, he was fuming ! but just then that Doctor I knew from down the hall rang him and gave him great admiration of me. how's that !

There was builders importing monkeys to tile their million dollar homes and then I had builders plead for me to come and help fix new buildings from their shoddy workmanship, so they could sell them and they tried to shaft me ! talk about lowlife A holes.

It's the A holes who make the big money and as I said to my builder mate one day, you may come across the wrong bloke one day and he said no I won't !

I had bought a new car and I went to get it lowered the clown pointed out to me that a bush was worn, I said come here look 48km on the clock bud he said there are 3 of us and only 1 of you. well lucky for you that I am not a criminal bud, but I am a Ju Jitsu Sensei that's open to fee demonstrations at times.

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by Fiji

That's what I dont understand.

I would want the job from a to z done by the one workshop. They supply the parts, drive in and drive out scenario. So no finger pointing if it goes pear shaped

It seems people in this thread want to cut corners , save a buck buying questionable parts and then want the workshop to fit a square in a round hole and blame the workshop if it doesn't fit .

The problem starts because Joe Public doesn't bother to understand what it takes to run a business.
Joe (or his missus) works for Coles and gets paid $30 an hour, so he can't understand why a mechanic should charge him $200 an hour. (God help him if he ever needs to hire a Lawyer, the shock will kill him.)

So then, rather than try to educate people, the workshops fudge their numbers and keep their labour rates as low as possible whilst jacking up parts and consumables. But when confronted, and asked why their cost is $100 more than at supacrap, they bs. So old-mate thinks he's doing them a favour by going to sca and buying the part himself.

[Crazy Dazz]

It's no wonder so many things have become disposable, and cars are following.

Less and less consumers know or care about how their car works. But at the same time they are becoming more consumer-savvy and more forthright.

Now this SHOULD compel dealers, parts-retailers, recyclers (wreckers), and repairers, to become better communicators, more responsive, and more transparent, but instead they all seem to have run in the opposite direction.

Even companies which hold themselves out to be specialists, seem to be only interested in performing over-priced oil-changes.

[bb_zetec]

Finding a good workshop is very hard these days.

In North Qld my Wife's Suzuki used to be serviced by the Suzuki Dealership, but it was a multi franchise and i dont think they were that clued up on Suzuki to be honest.

We serviced it there during the warranty and after it ran out for a few years.

It was due for a major service and the book says "remove tappet cover and measure clearances and adjust/shim as necessary".

Now when i dropped off the car i saw the Kit was attached to my paperwork for this service, and a new rocker cover gasket was there.

When i returned to pick it up, the new gasket was still in its packet.

I asked..."why was that gasket not used...were the tappets not checked?"

They responded in saying they listened to the engine and it sounded fine...and they never have had to adjust any tappets in any suzuki!

OK...fair enough, but they still had that on the bill including the full gasket kit...when i enquired about that they said "the text on the docket is preset and the service is a fixed price"

They did not seem to fathom that they failed to deliver yet want the full amount.

Nevertheless we never serviced it there again.

That is just one of the many auto industry stories i have.

A good workshop and mechanic is worth their weight in gold.

Recently i had another shop try and say that same Suzuki needs 5000klm oil changes, technically it does not "15,000 by the book...but i always change it at around the 10,000klm mark or once a year". They insisted this was required along with other things that were not. The fact my wife dropped it there seems to lead they can rip off the customer because she is a woman who might be clueless around cars. I was surprised they did not tell my wife the "blinker fluid needed to be refilled" or something along those lines..

When i went to collect it the B/S stopped...and so did our custom.

[Citroënbender]

I had to laugh at my occasional colleague today. Got a car with a TSI series motor and it’s throwing sync codes. Thought I schooled him with the last Eurobox to physically verify the timing rather than replace sensors.

Nope. But he won’t charge the customer for misdiagnosis, just that it’s not a good look when you take a bit long to fix it…

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by bb_zetec

Finding a good workshop is very hard these days.

In North Qld my Wife's Suzuki used to be serviced by the Suzuki Dealership, but it was a multi franchise and i dont think they were that clued up on Suzuki to be honest.

We serviced it there during the warranty and after it ran out for a few years.

It was due for a major service and the book says "remove tappet cover and measure clearances and adjust/shim as necessary".

Now when i dropped off the car i saw the Kit was attached to my paperwork for this service, and a new rocker cover gasket was there.

When i returned to pick it up, the new gasket was still in its packet.

I asked..."why was that gasket not used...were the tappets not checked?"

They responded in saying they listened to the engine and it sounded fine...and they never have had to adjust any tappets in any suzuki!

OK...fair enough, but they still had that on the bill including the full gasket kit...when i enquired about that they said "the text on the docket is preset and the service is a fixed price"

They did not seem to fathom that they failed to deliver yet want the full amount.

Nevertheless we never serviced it there again.

That is just one of the many auto industry stories i have.

A good workshop and mechanic is worth their weight in gold.

Recently i had another shop try and say that same Suzuki needs 5000klm oil changes, technically it does not "15,000 by the book...but i always change it at around the 10,000klm mark or once a year". They insisted this was required along with other things that were not. The fact my wife dropped it there seems to lead they can rip off the customer because she is a woman who might be clueless around cars. I was surprised they did not tell my wife the "blinker fluid needed to be refilled" or something along those lines..

When i went to collect it the B/S stopped...and so did our custom.

Why would any car in this day and age even need the tappets adjusted?

Do they expect it to need a valve regrind too?

That sort of thing went out decades ago.

[.:4:.]

I had one notable dishonesty (ive had a couple minor dishonesties) many years ago. I got rear ended so put the car into the panel beaters insurance said to go to. It was just a replacement rear bumper so new bar and some paint on it. Go to pick up the car and i noticed half the front bar had also been resprayed and my wind screen was smashed. The panel beater tried the excuse of the front was probably a repair from the past owner and tried the excuse of the car was sitting in the sun and that smashed the windscreen. What a load of ****. The *** kissing instantly started when i said i am the past owner. Well, sorta, my mum bought the car brand new and it had never been in an accident before, before i got rear ended. So yeah, they crashed my car and tried to hide it. They did replace my windscreen for free, and so they should. But still, its a smash repairer, but appart from moving the car around the car park or in the shop, they should have no reason to drive the car on the streets. Mechanics doing a test drive to test their work, yes. Panel beaters no. Paint has nothing to do with how a car runs.

[Top_Ghia]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Why would any car in this day and age even need the tappets adjusted?



Do they expect it to need a valve regrind too?



That sort of thing went out decades ago.

Not on all cars. Quite a few are either adjustable or shim type. Land cruiser is shims. Isuzu Ute is adjustable up until 2021. A lot of Mitsubishi are adjustable. Just because it’s not the latest tech doesn’t mean it’s still not used.

Oh what a feeling like to charge you for valve clearances on their services. But most dealers don’t stock shims. They’ll tell you they order them as needed but that’s complete rubbish.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Top_Ghia

Not on all cars. Quite a few are either adjustable or shim type. Land cruiser is shims. Isuzu Ute is adjustable up until 2021. A lot of Mitsubishi are adjustable. Just because it’s not the latest tech doesn’t mean it’s still not used.

Oh what a feeling like to charge you for valve clearances on their services. But most dealers don’t stock shims. They’ll tell you they order them as needed but that’s complete rubbish.

Landcruiser and latest tech. Pick one.

[bb_zetec]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Why would any car in this day and age even need the tappets adjusted?

Do they expect it to need a valve regrind too?

That sort of thing went out decades ago.

Your Right there Boss...it wasnt the tappet adjustment itself that concerned me, it was the principal of it, they wanted to charge for something they diddnt do.

Why Suzuki says they need that is unto themselves..perhaps the older technology is more reliable?.

Nevertheless we shouldn't be charged for something that isn't done.

This is straight out of the Shop Manual:

If valve clearance is out of specification, record valve clearance and adjust it to specification.
Valve clearance specification
When cold (ECT: 15 - 25 degrees C (59 - 77 degrees F)):
^Intake: 0.16 - 0.24 mm (0.0063 - 0.0094 in.)^Exhaust: 0.31 - 0.39 mm (0.0123 - 0.0153 in.)Adjustment1) Remove tappet to be replaced.
2) Select proper size of tappet as follows.a) Using micrometer, measure the thickness of the removed tappet (1).
b) Calculate the thickness of new tappet by formula below.NOTE:
If the number at second places of decimal point A is odd number, use (A - 0.01) tappet.Intake side:
A= B + C - 0.20 mm (0.0079 in.)
Exhaust side:
A= B + C - 0.35 mm (0.0138 in.)
A: Thickness "" of new tappet
B: Thickness "" of removed tappet
C: Measured valve clearance

[Crazy Dazz]

Found this gem on a local workshop's website:

Checking engine oil level and coolant level are two prime factors that Mechanical Workshop Perth takes care of on a priority basis. To check engine oil you have to locate the oil dipstick, pull it out and wipe it clean. By pushing it back and pulling it out you can check the oil level. For coolant level, you can check the low and high markings outside the reservoir. You can experience how the technicians do not take the radiator cap off to check coolant levels, because hot coolant system is still under pressure and the pressure release might burn.

Supports my conclusion that the human race is indeed getting stupider.

[Fordman1]

More stupid, post below

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Found this gem on a local workshop's website:


Supports my conclusion that the human race is indeed getting stupider.

More Stupid

[KobiXR6T]

Certainly not an easy task as a workshop or as a customer..

I tend to do most servicing and smaller tasks myself, but there are times where the hoist really makes it more economical to pass the job over to a shop.

Like most people here, I don't need the cheapest price.. but I want honest work completed. I don't want to be overcharged, sold parts I don't need, or have dodgy work completed.

If something else needs fixing and it makes sense labour wise to do it, let's talk and make it happen.

I've found the better workshops certainly have a delay.. sometimes several weeks before they can fit you in.. and the one I've been using has been great in having an actual mechanic behind the counter, meaning when you call to discuss a job they actually know what's involved. Can talk the talk, and still gets on the tools as well.

[FroudeyBrand]

Originally Posted by Mechan1k

Had issues not too long ago with one of IAG-approved/recommended repairs. As I didn't have the "choose your own repairer" option at the time. You can't go elsewhere unfortunately.

Long story short ... after the dodgy buggers supposedly fixed the required damage ... they did more damage to the vehicle ... luckily I already had a lot of images taken of the car. They refused to take the car back to fix it ... NRMA was involved in it for ages .... in the end ... car was sent to another repairer (not through IAG but had much better reputation) .... everything was checked over ... parts replaced and everything fixed properly.

Lesson learnt ... choose your own repairer option does cost ... and so does doing your homework as well.

Later found the IAG approved repairer had that many complaints ... and also found they had issues with their staff stealing parts off cars while it was in getting fixed, etc. as well.

Wasn't Bears or Gemini was it lol

[FroudeyBrand]

Read most of these posts and agree in summary a good mechanic is hard to find, but strangly enough my old 2001 forester i owned until recently I took to Subaru for minor to major fixes and even my 2006 impreza that when the clutch decided to fail in sydney but still drivable if you know how to use a car without a throw out bearing lol quoated a job 300 dollars less then local guy that specialises in gearboxes only...

I used to go to Repco franchised shop in Dubbo Forro maybe cause we and the owner (Forro) were friendly and he was a down to earth bloke, he'd charge book prices on most and couple of bucks jobs on others

[slowsnake]

No names, no pack drill on this one!
25 or so years ago, or so, I had the displeasure of agreeing to do a bit of work for a guy who imported trucks of a certain make into Australia.
He was a shonk, scammer, wheeler dealer without any morals, ethics or conscience!

One day he asked me to do a certain job on a steering arm on a 10 cubic metre tipper, he had done a certain conversion to change it from one model to another, he gave me 2 different steering arms, with 2 different female splines and said, " here cut these 2 and make 1 out of both with tha same splines "....I said to him I couldn't do it?...he said why not, I said cos its bloody illegal, he said so what, no one will know, I said I would and I am not doing it full stop!

This guy would not let up, I said just buy a new one, he said I can't, he said he would have to change the steering box and he didn't have time to find one, I said if this breaks with 10 tonne of load its gonna be an outta control missile?
And they will trace it to you, then me as the welder and you would deny you ordered me to do it!
He just smiled and said he would be on a plane to America before it got to him, I told him to shove his job "where a duck couldn't stick its beak" and packed my tools and left.

I saw the truck on the road a few times and always wondered if he did the steering arm repair/fix, but I wasn't game to ask the owner driver, he was the Chapter President of a very well known OMG, I often wonder who they got after me, whoever it was they had to be good at their job, but pretty thick on the common sense scale!



Cheers King Billy

[mondeomatureguy]

Hi guys,
I cant mention any names but i heard this story and the guy that told me was working in the Motor Industry and i know he was telling the truth when he told me.

It was a Dealer Ship and the Mechanic was doing a service on a car and had drained the oil when he was called away to do another job by the Service Manager.

When he go back to the car that he had drained the oil out of he took it down on the hoist and started up the engine. The engine temp when right up and he shut the car down and told the service manager " he forgot to put the new oil in and also told him about the engine temp.

He was told by the service manager " let the engine cool down put the new oil in and dont tell the customer".

"Glad it wasn't my car"

[Top_Ghia]

Originally Posted by slowsnake

No names, no pack drill on this one!

25 or so years ago, or so, I had the displeasure of agreeing to do a bit of work for a guy who imported trucks of a certain make into Australia.

He was a shonk, scammer, wheeler dealer without any morals, ethics or conscience!



One day he asked me to do a certain job on a steering arm on a 10 cubic metre tipper, he had done a certain conversion to change it from one model to another, he gave me 2 different steering arms, with 2 different female splines and said, " here cut these 2 and make 1 out of both with tha same splines "....I said to him I couldn't do it?...he said why not, I said cos its bloody illegal, he said so what, no one will know, I said I would and I am not doing it full stop!



This guy would not let up, I said just buy a new one, he said I can't, he said he would have to change the steering box and he didn't have time to find one, I said if this breaks with 10 tonne of load its gonna be an outta control missile?

And they will trace it to you, then me as the welder and you would deny you ordered me to do it!

He just smiled and said he would be on a plane to America before it got to him, I told him to shove his job "where a duck couldn't stick its beak" and packed my tools and left.



I saw the truck on the road a few times and always wondered if he did the steering arm repair/fix, but I wasn't game to ask the owner driver, he was the Chapter President of a very well known OMG, I often wonder who they got after me, whoever it was they had to be good at their job, but pretty thick on the common sense scale!







Cheers King Billy

It does happen. Years ago someone did a dodgy repair on a truck axle. 10 years later that axle broke and the wheel came off and killed a roadside worker.
VicRoads traced the repair back 10 years and prosecuted the repairer and they did jail time.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

It's no wonder so many things have become disposable, and cars are following.

Less and less consumers know or care about how their car works. But at the same time they are becoming more consumer-savvy and more forthright.

Now this SHOULD compel dealers, parts-retailers, recyclers (wreckers), and repairers, to become better communicators, more responsive, and more transparent, but instead they all seem to have run in the opposite direction.

Even companies which hold themselves out to be specialists, seem to be only interested in performing over-priced oil-changes.

There's issues in the automotive repair industry over information access, in Australia a independent repairer has no access to service/repair information like they do by law in the USA.

Ricky Muir was making great strides in rectifying this, then the double dissolution election happened and our man in parliament got shafted

https://www.pc.gov.au/inquiries/current/repair#draft

There's discussions about 'right of repair' happening at the government level at the moment.

I'll touch base on more of my experiences as someone who works in this industry

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

There's issues in the automotive repair industry over information access, in Australia a independent repairer has no access to service/repair information like they do by law in the USA.

Ricky Muir was making great strides in rectifying this, then the double dissolution election happened and our man in parliament got shafted

https://www.pc.gov.au/inquiries/current/repair#draft

There's discussions about 'right of repair' happening at the government level at the moment.

I'll touch base on more of my experiences as someone who works in this industry

The same issues cross over into the Earthmoving, Agriculture& transport Too..

The OEM's are incredibly possessive of THEIR intellectual Property..

I sincerely hope We end with right to repair Laws like the U.S.A.

[Citroënbender]

Originally Posted by hayseed

I sincerely hope We end with right to repair Laws like the U.S.A.

It would be nice; good for the economy, education, employment. But frankly, the way our governments treat us they are more likely to support a large organisation prosecuting the “Everyman” for accessing and possessing/distributing information that the corporation will claim is their sole right within Australia.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by hayseed

The same issues cross over into the Earthmoving, Agriculture& transport Too..

The OEM's are incredibly possessive of THEIR intellectual Property..

I sincerely hope We end with right to repair Laws like the U.S.A.

They try block it at every turn, independents have absolutely no chance against the dealership network and the car manufacturers protecting their turf, you just don't have access to the information, hell even trying to buy a manufacturers diagnostic tool is a hassle.

Aftermarket diagnostic tools, you can't just buy one and it works with everything, some models do certain brands better than others, then if you have a car like a Falcon which is electrically an orphan in the Ford family, no one really does it too well compared to stuff from Ford Europe because of its limited market, these companies don't invest too much into catering for those models.

I was friendly with a couple of local workshops so we all bought different brands, so we could borrow each others diagnostic scanners if our own one wouldn't cut the mustard.

This all has ongoing costs, not just the up front costs but the access to the updates, its usually included in the purchase price for 1-2 years, then afterwards its four figures per year for the updates depending on which one you have.

The genuine Ford one is reasonably priced, I think the buy price was only $3800 USD + $660 USD/year for the updates.

We used to have Mercedes STAR diagnostic system we shared between us and our Sydney branch where I did my apprenticeship, they'd freight it down to us to do the programming of Mercedes Sprinter PSM

It was $20K per YEAR.

The thing with the automotive industry its a 'sunset' industry, there's not much difference between workshop pricing and someone here walking in and buying over the counter, more and more people provide their own parts, hell I still have 30 day accounts with a dealership and a major auto electrical supplier, so I also source my own parts and supply them.

You can't get repair information on cars out of manufacturers in Australia, they have no obligations to supply it, there is no 'right of repair' legislation either, when I was an apprentice, the TAFE I went to, did the training for Nissan technicians for their EV course, but it wasn't open to any other kids, was just for Nissan

Add in the costs of your ever increasing overheads unless you own the building you're in, the lack of support if you need it, the low margins, the low wages and now there's a shortage of LV mechanics and auto electricians because of the pandemic closing off 457 visas, that's why you get people who just want to do oil and filter as its an easy in/out.

Kids don't really want to work in the industry, there's also a push at a high school level for kids to go into university instead of trades. The kids who do go into trades go into construction trades - thats where the money is, a 240V electrician or a plumber has a Thailand Special and a tool trailer with a couple thousand bucks worth of tools, they don't need diagnostic scanners with yearly updates that cost 4 figures or specialist tools for this and that car to do particular jobs etc.

Also the way the industry is, company cars being serviced at dealerships, new cars financed and accessory fitment handled by the dealership so its all on one invoice etc the independent is losing out.

The guys who work at dealerships wake up wondering how many major services they're going to do today, on the same cars, day in day out.

Nugget Garage did a good video recently on getting out of the general mechanical and accessory fitment side and focusing just on tuning, he mentioned a lot of what I've covered as well.

To a degree I get people whinging about $165 inc GST hourly labour rate at work, so I take them on a tour of our production facility, point out the $300,000/year in rent, 2x $250,000 CNC machines, introduce them to the bloke who operates them, take them by the 10 people who do the assembly work, the warehouse, show them our stock on the shelves.

Plus the other 20 people they don't see who are in interstate branches.

One of our competitors closed up shop recently, they have a 100+ year history, they were sitting on over $20M worth of land - manufacturing business or sell their property and capitalise on the gains from the land?

From the perspective of an automotive workshop its a hard business to 'scale up' too.

[ratter]

legislation has been passed to rectify this situation

[slowsnake]

Sorry ratter, but I was looking for a link?


Cheers King Billy

[mick taylor]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

They try block it at every turn, independents have absolutely no chance against the dealership network and the car manufacturers protecting their turf, you just don't have access to the information, hell even trying to buy a manufacturers diagnostic tool is a hassle.

Aftermarket diagnostic tools, you can't just buy one and it works with everything, some models do certain brands better than others, then if you have a car like a Falcon which is electrically an orphan in the Ford family, no one really does it too well compared to stuff from Ford Europe because of its limited market, these companies don't invest too much into catering for those models.

I was friendly with a couple of local workshops so we all bought different brands, so we could borrow each others diagnostic scanners if our own one wouldn't cut the mustard.

This all has ongoing costs, not just the up front costs but the access to the updates, its usually included in the purchase price for 1-2 years, then afterwards its four figures per year for the updates depending on which one you have.

The genuine Ford one is reasonably priced, I think the buy price was only $3800 USD + $660 USD/year for the updates.

We used to have Mercedes STAR diagnostic system we shared between us and our Sydney branch where I did my apprenticeship, they'd freight it down to us to do the programming of Mercedes Sprinter PSM

It was $20K per YEAR.

The thing with the automotive industry its a 'sunset' industry, there's not much difference between workshop pricing and someone here walking in and buying over the counter, more and more people provide their own parts, hell I still have 30 day accounts with a dealership and a major auto electrical supplier, so I also source my own parts and supply them.

You can't get repair information on cars out of manufacturers in Australia, they have no obligations to supply it, there is no 'right of repair' legislation either, when I was an apprentice, the TAFE I went to, did the training for Nissan technicians for their EV course, but it wasn't open to any other kids, was just for Nissan

Add in the costs of your ever increasing overheads unless you own the building you're in, the lack of support if you need it, the low margins, the low wages and now there's a shortage of LV mechanics and auto electricians because of the pandemic closing off 457 visas, that's why you get people who just want to do oil and filter as its an easy in/out.

Kids don't really want to work in the industry, there's also a push at a high school level for kids to go into university instead of trades. The kids who do go into trades go into construction trades - thats where the money is, a 240V electrician or a plumber has a Thailand Special and a tool trailer with a couple thousand bucks worth of tools, they don't need diagnostic scanners with yearly updates that cost 4 figures or specialist tools for this and that car to do particular jobs etc.

Also the way the industry is, company cars being serviced at dealerships, new cars financed and accessory fitment handled by the dealership so its all on one invoice etc the independent is losing out.

The guys who work at dealerships wake up wondering how many major services they're going to do today, on the same cars, day in day out.

Nugget Garage did a good video recently on getting out of the general mechanical and accessory fitment side and focusing just on tuning, he mentioned a lot of what I've covered as well.

To a degree I get people whinging about $165 inc GST hourly labour rate at work, so I take them on a tour of our production facility, point out the $300,000/year in rent, 2x $250,000 CNC machines, introduce them to the bloke who operates them, take them by the 10 people who do the assembly work, the warehouse, show them our stock on the shelves.

Plus the other 20 people they don't see who are in interstate branches.

One of our competitors closed up shop recently, they have a 100+ year history, they were sitting on over $20M worth of land - manufacturing business or sell their property and capitalise on the gains from the land?

From the perspective of an automotive workshop its a hard business to 'scale up' too.

My wife got stung $270 from Plummer to unblock a drain, it took 20min for 2 blokes to do.
I am a Contractor Tiler and if I can make $300 a day I am having a good day. other days I may of worked 10hr day and earn nothing at all, just getting f ed over by incompetent builders who don't give a rats if you are making money or not.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by ratter

legislation has been passed to rectify this situation

It literally only passed three days ago:

https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary...sult?bId=r6695

Its not like its going to be fixed tomorrow morning though, you can just now buy information from the manufacturer

Mr SUKKAR (Deakin—Assistant Treasurer, Minister for Housing and Minister for Homelessness, Social and Community Housing) (09:46): I move:

That this bill be now read a second time.

This bill establishes a mandatory scheme to promote competition in the Australian automotive sector by requiring all motor vehicle service and repair information be made available for purchase by independent repairers at a fair market price.

Motor vehicle servicing and repair is a $23 billion industry in Australia with nearly 35,000 businesses employing over 106,000 Australians.

Currently, around one in 10 motor vehicles taken to repair workshops are affected by a lack of access to service and repair information.

When this is the case, it results in higher service costs for consumers. This is because there is little choice as to where a vehicle, particularly newer models, can be repaired safely and efficiently.

The 2017 Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) market study into the sector found that a lack of access to service and repair information was causing delays and detriment to consumers.

The ACCC's market study also found that independent repairers were not often given fair access to the information they need to do their job safely and effectively.

The scheme will mandate that all service and repair information that car manufacturers share with their dealership networks must also be made available to all independent repairers and registered trading organisations to purchase.

The objectives of the scheme, as set out in the bill, are to:

promote competition between Australian repairers of passenger and light goods motor vehicles and establish a fair playing field by mandating access to diagnostic, repair and servicing information on fair and reasonable commercial terms;

enable consumers to have those vehicles diagnosed, repaired, serviced, modified or dismantled safely and efficiently by a repairer of their choice;

encourage the provision of accessible and affordable information to repairers and registered training organisations;

protect safety and security information about those vehicles to ensure the safety and security of consumers, information users and the general public; and

provide for the low-cost resolution of disputes that could occur under the scheme.

To promote competition and ensure the provision of accessible and affordable information, scheme information must be offered at a price that does not exceed fair market value. Fair market value allows for cost recovery and a reasonable profit margin.

'Fair market value' is a recognised concept in both Australian law and an international context. When undertaking regulatory action, it is established practice to ascertain fair market value by using an objective test.

The factors to be taken into account in setting fair market value include the price charged to other repairers, reasonable recovery of costs, and the prices for information in overseas markets.

To support consumer choice of repairer, the majority of vehicles on Australian roads will be captured by this scheme, including passenger and light-goods vehicles manufactured from 2002. Again, this approach is consistent with similar arrangements in overseas jurisdictions.

As you would expect, widespread access to safety and security information would create unacceptable risks to vehicle safety and security. Therefore, information related to safety and security will be available only to individuals who have the appropriate qualifications. This will of course protect consumers, repairers, and, again, the general public.

Further information on the requirements for individuals accessing this information will be set out in scheme rules, which will be consulted on shortly.

The government has been working closely with industry to develop technical aspects of the scheme's design, and we've consulted extensively throughout the duration of the development of the scheme to ensure that it is effective, fair and safe.

Ongoing industry cooperation will be crucial to the scheme's success. Therefore, a statutory adviser will be established and will have a key role in the day-to-day operation of the scheme. Importantly, the adviser will play a key role in assisting with the mediation of disputes and reporting to the government on the operation of the scheme.

The government intends for the adviser position to be conferred on a joint-industry led organisation that will have the technical expertise, experience and relationships within the automotive industry to support the scheme.

Based on successful arrangements in the United States, industry representatives have advised me that this joint-industry led organisation will run an online portal to facilitate easy access to and supply of information for those that wish to participate. The government will provide a $250,000 grant to facilitate online access to service and repair information.

This bill also provides a strong incentive to comply with these new obligations, with a maximum penalty of $10 million to apply in circumstances where data providers fail to comply with the scheme. The ACCC will be responsible for monitoring compliance and taking any action where necessary.

This bill includes significant reforms to the service and repair industry that has been made possible only through a strong partnership with industry, and I want to take this opportunity to thank the five signatories to the existing voluntary agreement for the work and engagement they have undertaken to date and thank them in advance for the work that will be done to ensure this scheme's success.

Full details of the measure are contained in the explanatory memorandum.

Debate adjourned.

https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo...651d%2F0014%22

It took FIVE YEARS from being on the radar, to legislation passing both houses in parliament:

https://www.caradvice.com.au/457672/...e-of-practice/

Its a step in the right direction and I hope it makes things a bit easier for independent repairers.

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by mick taylor

My wife got stung $270 from Plummer to unblock a drain, it took 20min for 2 blokes to do.
I am a Contractor Tiler and if I can make $300 a day I am having a good day. other days I may of worked 10hr day and earn nothing at all, just getting f ed over by incompetent builders who don't give a rats if you are making money or not.

less sooky la la and go be a plumber m8