The Australian car industry will not survive the downturn, expert says

[dave289]

Originally Posted by Wretched

Amen brother.
You can only build the same kind of car that people are not wanting anymore and become arrogant to the market changes for a small period of time before you begin to lose market share.
Why should I have to buy a barge that I'd never use anyway just to keep someone in work? Why couldn't the locals read the market shift earlier and adjust to it (this includes the need for quality control and better product planning)? Sorry, imports for me until a decent local vehicle that suits my needs comes along.

you mention down below you are a real car enthusiast. but you dont mention what crap you actually drive( Thats if you can). we are trying to save the economy and the country but while every wenker wants his overpriced silver merc or audi we will go down hill. I say tax the crap out of the imports because the aussie car market is more important to me and the rest of the country than all these imports put together. you cant find an aussie car that suits your needs, you must be specia(too)l.

[Wally]

Originally Posted by Wretched

Amen brother.
You can only build the same kind of car that people are not wanting anymore and become arrogant to the market changes for a small period of time before you begin to lose market share.
Why should I have to buy a barge that I'd never use anyway just to keep someone in work? Why couldn't the locals read the market shift earlier and adjust to it (this includes the need for quality control and better product planning)? Sorry, imports for me until a decent local vehicle that suits my needs comes along.

I think if Ford brought back the Corti or Holden the Torrie, I'd seriously consider buying one ahead of an import.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by dave289

you mention down below you are a real car enthusiast. but you dont mention what crap you actually drive( Thats if you can). we are trying to save the economy and the country but while every wenker wants his overpriced silver merc or audi we will go down hill. I say tax the crap out of the imports because the aussie car market is more important to me and the rest of the country than all these imports put together. you cant find an aussie car that suits your needs, you must be specia(too)l.

To be a real car enthusiast I need to list the car I drive? Wow love your strange logic. On here I could say I own a Porsche and how would you know otherwise? However for your information I own a Ford.

I have bought local made cars and never will i go through that pain again, quality is second rate and the car wasn't what I needed, but then what else do the locals make if you don't want a large sedan, large SUV or a ute?
My money is not wasted, I would rather spend the money on a decent product than on blind patriotism. If that puts me in the boat of "wenkers" (you so love to point out) that would rather spend the $$ on a Merc, BMW or Audi then so be it. The base C-class and 3 series are around the 45k+ mark, that would put it against XR6T etc, so the imports are already at a disadvantage on paper. Why would the locals struggle if the imports are already taxed (tariffs, LCT, etc)? If people are after a bargain then the Falcodores should fit that right? Maybe there is something else stopping people from buying the locals? Not everyone wants the same car.

IF Ford or Holden can build a decent car that suits my needs then I will consider it. Until then I will continue to look else where which won't be for a while as I am happy with the vehicle I own (not a local made).

[dave289]

Originally Posted by Dave_au

You mean impose a tax people for choosing otherwise (quality/quality + cost/low cost) as our local industry is (alledgedly) inept to provide the same.

I've had enough of Governments trying to dictate what I can and can't do, or what I can or can't afford.

yeh impose a tax for tools who help destroy the economy and claim our product is not good enough for them. no wonder the economy is going down hill. to the tools that think there imports are so great, I drive many different cars ,I have driven brand new imports such as mercs which start at $50,000 and they do not compare with the aussie price equivelent. basically there is no comparison ,a 1.8 lirte merc for $50k or the aussie equivelent yet you wenkers cant find a car thats good enough for you. and if you think a merc or bm is anymore reliable than a ford then you have not owned one.

[dave289]

Originally Posted by Wretched

To be a real car enthusiast I need to list the car I drive? Wow love your strange logic. On here I could say I own a Porsche and how would you know otherwise? However for your information I own a Ford.

I have bought local made cars and never will i go through that pain again, quality is second rate and the car wasn't what I needed, but then what else do the locals make if you don't want a large sedan, large SUV or a ute?
My money is not wasted, I would rather spend the money on a decent product than on blind patriotism. If that puts me in the boat of "wenkers" (you so love to point out) that would rather spend the $$ on a Merc, BMW or Audi then so be it. IF Ford or Holden can build a decent car that suits my needs then I will consider it. Until then I will continue to look else where which won't be for a while as I am happy with the vehicle I own (not a local made).

yes real car enthusiansts tend to buy real cars. you say that you own a ford and have had isuues but you also mention your vehicle is not local made.so thats means either you have a new imported ford from somewhere overseas or you drive something like an old mustang. you could not own a new imported ford because you love imported cars with quality yet an american ford is less quality than an aussie one. if you are comparing a new audi or bm to your old mustang then I could see that it might be better quality than an old mustang. Is your nose growing longer or can you clear this up for me.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by dave289

yes real car enthusiansts tend to buy real cars. you say that you own a ford and have had isuues but you also mention your vehicle is not local made.so thats means either you have a new imported ford from somewhere overseas or you drive something like an old mustang. you could not own a new imported ford because you love imported cars with quality yet an american ford is less quality than an aussie one. if you are comparing a new audi or bm to your old mustang then I could see that it might be better quality than an old mustang. Is your nose growing longer or can you clear this up for me.

Wow so full of intelligence. :togo:

If you read my post I said I have owned local made cars and have had quality issues. You are quite the observant operator to note that while my car is a Ford it is an import, however you lose marks assuming that an imported Ford has to be American. Sorry my Ford is European, made in Germany and in the two years I have owned it since new have had no issues as yet (knock on wood). What other proof would your royal highness like?

I would never compare a classic Mustang to a modern BMW, Merc or Audi. I would rather a 1969 Mustang over any BMW or Merc. The two can't be compared and I never indicated this. So please let us take the discussion back to the original topic of the shattered state of the local car industry and why people would rather buy imports than on local large sedans/SUV/utes before you get owned even more.

[banarcus]

I could give you a few of my reasons why I believe that our newly acquired Golf is a better family car than our old BA XR8 was. Then again, my old ED wagon was a better family car than the BA was.

[Rangas GTP]

I honestly believe the goverment will try the best they can to save the Australian auto industry, only because they have failed with all other manufacturing sectors. I work in essential services/ steam plants. The textile industry was one of the first industries affected about 10 years ago, today 99% of textile manufacturing have either closed up shop or moved to China. Thousands of jobs were lost, now Bonds have decided to move offshore and all hell breaks loose, Goverment wants to butt in and keep them here or they will cut their grants. I am actually surprised they lasted this long. How can you compete with China when they can manufacture the same product close to peanuts. Bonds not worried about Australians declaring they won't buy their products, a mass population in the billions is healthy business.
Brand name loyalty, hopefully the goverment will see the auto industry in the same light.
Off topic, follow the auctions and you will see a trend. Last year the majority of busineses closing down were in NSW & VIC, this year Sth Aus.
The down side to all this is inferior products being imported into Australia. An example,the majority of pressure vessels are manufactured in Vietnam & China, on importing, non destructive testing is carried out, the majority fail. So next time you think about buying that cheap compressor from Supercheap or Bunnings, check the welds underneath on the dished ends, they are known for failing.

[dave289]

Originally Posted by Wretched

Wow so full of intelligence. :togo:

If you read my post I said I have owned local made cars and have had quality issues. You are quite the observant operator to note that while my car is a Ford it is an import, however you lose marks assuming that an imported Ford has to be American. Sorry my Ford is European, made in Germany and in the two years I have owned it since new have had no issues as yet (knock on wood). What other proof would your royal highness like?

I would never compare a classic Mustang to a modern BMW, Merc or Audi. I would rather a 1969 Mustang over any BMW or Merc. The two can't be compared and I never indicated this. So please let us take the discussion back to the original topic of the shattered state of the local car industry and why people would rather buy imports than on local large sedans/SUV/utes before you get owned even more.

what proof ,you say you are a car enthusiast but cant be to proud of your import or you might let us know what iit is. I'll asume I am geting warm by saying a focus, if not a fiesta. I hate to tell you but any one who is a REAL car enthusiast knows that front wheel drive does not cut it .IT IS INFERIOR. AND YOU CANT FIND A CAR THAT SUITS YOUR NEEDS. YOU CLAIM THAT YOU ARE NOT A SHEEP BUT BUY THE AVARGE BOX LIKE EVERYONE ELSE.(SHEEP).I WOULD NOT EVEN LOOK AT YOUR SHITEBOX OVER AN FG TURBO. why ,because I am a real car enthusiast who prfers real cars. even your germen imports know that front drive does not cut it, that why all bm's and mercs are rear wheel drive ,except for that shitebox a series that is an insult to merc.do I need to go on...... :

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by dave289

what proof ,you say you are a car enthusiast but cant be to proud of your import or you might let us know what iit is. I'll asume I am geting warm by saying a focus, if not a fiesta. I hate to tell you but any one who is a REAL car enthusiast knows that front wheel drive does not cut it .IT IS INFERIOR. AND YOU CANT FIND A CAR THAT SUITS YOUR NEEDS. YOU CLAIM THAT YOU ARE NOT A SHEEP BUT BUY THE AVARGE BOX LIKE EVERYONE ELSE.(SHEEP).I WOULD NOT EVEN LOOK AT YOUR SHITEBOX OVER AN FG TURBO. why ,because I am a real car enthusiast who prfers real cars. even your germen imports know that front drive does not cut it, that why all bm's and mercs are rear wheel drive ,except for that shitebox a series that is an insult to merc.do I need to go on...... :

ding ding ding ding we have a winner, you're right I have a Focus, XR5T.
While it has FWD, which some consider a disadvantage (*cough Focus RS anyone*), I don't, I only use it for daily travel to and from work and the occassional sprint around the mountain ranges and it does that job fantastic, I do enjoy driving the car each day. A sheep? Possibly, not sure, I did the research beforehand and the Focus XR5T/ST was second in my opinion to only the Golf GTi and I had tested the MPS and WRX and seems to be getting WORLDWIDE rave reviews. I find it 100 times better going around a corner than any barge Falcon I have driven/owned (XR8, XR6T, F6, XT).

If the local industry is to survive it needs an overhaul, from staff to product planning. Innovation and not mediocrity needs to be rewarded.

You boy need to grow up quickly, your attitude is pathetic and intelligence resembles a blade of grass. You are what the problem is with this country. When you do grow up and own a car that you'll buy with your own money, you might look at quality a little more.

[ranger58]

Gentlemen everyone needs to calm down.

The Australian car industry will be propped up for the near future because no government wants to be the one on watch when two Icons of Australia (GMH and Ford Aust) go under.

I believe that for the good of the Nation we must have a local Car industry but not just to protect jobs (although I do have a few friends in the industry), the reason we need a Automotive industry is to allow us to push LPG as a preferred fuel source. By switching to LPG we can help reduce our carbon footprint (gets the greenes to leave us alone) and helps reduce our trade deficit (lowers the amount of oil we need to Buy)

[Dave_au]

Originally Posted by dave289

yeh impose a tax for tools who help destroy the economy and claim our product is not good enough for them. no wonder the economy is going down hill. to the tools that think there imports are so great, I drive many different cars ,I have driven brand new imports such as mercs which start at $50,000 and they do not compare with the aussie price equivelent. basically there is no comparison ,a 1.8 lirte merc for $50k or the aussie equivelent yet you wenkers cant find a car thats good enough for you. and if you think a merc or bm is anymore reliable than a ford then you have not owned one.

Wow, so it's fine to protect and reward companies that have ultimately been mismanaged, and have failed to develop proper product planning for the future just because it so "helps our local economy", (ignoring the massive subsidaries and handouts these companies have already taken over the years). Lucky for us, buyers have a choice, and as evidenced by their wallets (and domestic sales figures), they have certainly gone elsewhere.

As for price comparison, lets ignore the fact that most BMW and Mercedes are already impacted by import duties (10%), GST (10%) and Luxury Car Tax (33% on value above $57,180). That is the potential (ignoring thresholds) for import duties of at least 20% if not more like 40%.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by ranger58

Gentlemen everyone needs to calm down.

The Australian car industry will be propped up for the near future because no government wants to be the one on watch when two Icons of Australia (GMH and Ford Aust) go under.

Yeah I agree. However while I don't want to see Ford or Holden leave here, I would like major changes to be introduced. Any assistance by the government should be in the form of subsidies for R&D into products that will improve vehicles and produce better cars. Examples can be as you have already highlighted the further advancement of LPG systems, direct injection, alternative materials, better construction processes including the introduction of better/more robots, quality control, smaller more affordable vehicles, etc.

I'd like to see our local talent put to good use and not be stuck making the same kind of car all the time. The time of the Falcon being Ford's number 1 is over and the sooner Ford adapt to that the better they'll be.

[Daymoe]

Originally Posted by dave289

you mention down below you are a real car enthusiast. but you dont mention what crap you actually drive( Thats if you can). we are trying to save the economy and the country but while every wenker wants his overpriced silver merc or audi we will go down hill. I say tax the crap out of the imports because the aussie car market is more important to me and the rest of the country than all these imports put together. you cant find an aussie car that suits your needs, you must be specia(too)l.

I liked my idea better, it still gives a fair choice and if you're serious about keeping Australian jobs, you wouldn't disagree with it either. You can spout your "keeping the Aussie car market" but when it comes to money, no one wants to pony up the extra required, they'd rather restrict everyone elses choice and really, it shows your true colours that you really don't give a crap.

Originally Posted by dave289

what proof ,you say you are a car enthusiast but cant be to proud of your import or you might let us know what iit is. I'll asume I am geting warm by saying a focus, if not a fiesta. I hate to tell you but any one who is a REAL car enthusiast knows that front wheel drive does not cut it .IT IS INFERIOR. AND YOU CANT FIND A CAR THAT SUITS YOUR NEEDS. YOU CLAIM THAT YOU ARE NOT A SHEEP BUT BUY THE AVARGE BOX LIKE EVERYONE ELSE.(SHEEP).I WOULD NOT EVEN LOOK AT YOUR SHITEBOX OVER AN FG TURBO. why ,because I am a real car enthusiast who prfers real cars. even your germen imports know that front drive does not cut it, that why all bm's and mercs are rear wheel drive ,except for that shitebox a series that is an insult to merc.do I need to go on...... :

Since when did being a "real car enthusiast" mean you have to only drive and like RWD cars? I think a car enthusiast means you like cars no matter FWD/RWD?

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by mik

bring back higher tariffs, AUSTRALIAN MANUFACTURING +JOBS COME FIRST.
would it be that easy?

The US & Japan have little to no tariffs on their cars so I doubt that will happen. What would be more sensible is to give incentives to buy Australian (thats where Ford, Holden and even Toyota's market is).

Another thing I would like to see is to ban cars with poor safety ratings, Something like 5 star for sedan and hatch, 4 star for utes and 3 star for vans. At least then as the cars trickle down to younger drivers they are safer for them, mind you under this rule the corolla would be banned in Australia.

[eb2fairmont]

All I can say is ONYA HOLDEN for coming out swining against this .

[dave289]

Originally Posted by Wretched

ding ding ding ding we have a winner, you're right I have a Focus, XR5T.
While it has FWD, which some consider a disadvantage (*cough Focus RS anyone*), I don't, I only use it for daily travel to and from work and the occassional sprint around the mountain ranges and it does that job fantastic, I do enjoy driving the car each day. A sheep? Possibly, not sure, I did the research beforehand and the Focus XR5T/ST was second in my opinion to only the Golf GTi and I had tested the MPS and WRX and seems to be getting WORLDWIDE rave reviews. I find it 100 times better going around a corner than any barge Falcon I have driven/owned (XR8, XR6T, F6, XT).

If the local industry is to survive it needs an overhaul, from staff to product planning. Innovation and not mediocrity needs to be rewarded.

You boy need to grow up quickly, your attitude is pathetic and intelligence resembles a blade of grass. You are what the problem is with this country. When you do grow up and own a car that you'll buy with your own money, you might look at quality a little more.

focus ,fiesta not a lot of difference is there, xr5t(should,nt that have been an xr4t).while it does get good reviews I could never really see myself buying such a car ,I have never driven an xr5t or the mps ,but on paper the mps look superior, was the mps to much , I am curious as to why you chose your xr5t over the mps.
I have grown up about as much as I can at 38. You say my attitude is pathetic and I am the problem with this country. you come on here with your attitude of aussie cars are crap and that their not good enough for you .sorry but that is the problem with this country ,buying to much crap from overseas .I own four cars , 3 fords and 1 holden(did I say that) that I have had to buy with my own money, I own a few dollars on one but dont see where your coming from there.But I could never fork out good money on a focus(while I sort of like the styling its starting to look outdated rather quickly and would probably look dated standing next to the new fiesta) I would like to test drive one though just to see how it stacks up. .you also mentioned my intelligence resembles a blade of grass, a blade of glass can be very sharp at both ends so I assume that was a compliment, thanks for that ,you have obviuosly read some of my posts.

[Gobes32]

What should Ford Australia make then? To stop people from buying o'seas vehicles........

[Walt Kowalski]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

What should Ford Australia make then? To stop people from buying o'seas vehicles........

LPG across the range of Falcons and Territory (INCL Turbo and Luxury) and then MARKET the daylights out of the economy/running costs vs Corolla class.

And the Oz made aspect which is really gaining momentum since Pacific Brands went awol.

And people start to understand Walt Kowalski attitude to toyota.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by ranger58

I believe that for the good of the Nation we must have a local Car industry but not just to protect jobs (although I do have a few friends in the industry), the reason we need a Automotive industry is to allow us to push LPG as a preferred fuel source. By switching to LPG we can help reduce our carbon footprint (gets the greenes to leave us alone) and helps reduce our trade deficit (lowers the amount of oil we need to Buy)

You're getting to a key point there. Extend the reference to CNG which Ford has also done development work on.

Gas is our major indigenous fuel resource for motor vehicles. Oil is soon to become a very precarious and costly commodity and it is imported which means it is also vulnerable to volatile politics overseas. Apart from the environmental issue, politically and economically we need to get off imported oil dependancy asap.

Ford and Holden (Ford more than Holden) have prepared us for this through their local development work. Car sellers based overseas such as Toyota have other agendas and no interest in what happens with Australia's fuel situation. Many countries don't have Australia's fortune of good access to natural gas and often they are highly urbanised countries without great distances so companies like Toyota will be promoting electric drive systems for such markets. We have underinvested in public transport and have urban sprawl so we can't really support the use of electric vehicles very well. So who else will do gas for us then?

For some reason Rudd's government can't see this so they throw money at Toyota to do petrol-electric vehicles (which use oil). In doing so they totally miss the point. It's really a critical matter of national sustainability that they support Ford and Holden and their gas technology. And of these two, Ford has the definite lead.

Edit: Just saw your post Munroman - yes, gas across the range. As soon as possible.

[Daymoe]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

What should Ford Australia make then? To stop people from buying o'seas vehicles........

LI LPG across all of the range and spend more money on marketing.

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by Munroman

LPG across the range of Falcons and Territory (INCL Turbo and Luxury) and then MARKET the daylights out of the economy/running costs vs Corolla class.

And the Oz made aspect which is really gaining momentum since Pacific Brands went awol.

And people start to understand Walt Kowalski attitude to toyota.

Don't quote me, but I think if Ford go to liquid injection next year like everyone thinks they will, then they will introduce it across the range. Territory is a tough one because they have nowhere to place the tank. There are people on this forum more knowledgeable than me on this matter who know specifically why Ford have not done it yet......

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

Don't quote me, but I think if Ford go to liquid injection next year like everyone thinks they will, then they will introduce it across the range. Territory is a tough one because they have nowhere to place the tank. There are people on this forum more knowledgeable than me on this matter who know specifically why Ford have not done it yet......

I'm tipping LI LPG in the next Falcon facelift - what a great decision to keep the I6 !!

Territory ? Well who knows, I think the packaging issue will stop LPG, if it does, that'll be a real shame !

[Quicksand]

This might sound quite ignorant, but can't they just put the LPG tank where the petrol tank currently is, or similar?

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Inducted_Breeze

This might sound quite ignorant, but can't they just put the LPG tank where the petrol tank currently is, or similar?

The petrol tank in a terri is very different to the run of the mill tank. They would need a full redesign of the back end so this couldn't be justified until a new model is brought out. Weather or not this happens is a different story.

The fuel tank issue is why they looked at diesel for the terri.

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by Inducted_Breeze

This might sound quite ignorant, but can't they just put the LPG tank where the petrol tank currently is, or similar?

That seems the most logical place but that would mean designing an off standard tank and the numbers don't match the figures? As in, the cost of R&D do not justify the return.......

[new2ford]

As I understand from the Territory forum, the gas tank can go where the spare wheel is but that then leaves the problem of where to put the spare wheel. That raises marketing issues (aesthetics/space) but it's not insurmountable.

[RPO83]

Originally Posted by dave289

focus ,fiesta not a lot of difference is there, xr5t(should,nt that have been an xr4t).while it does get good reviews I could never really see myself buying such a car ,I have never driven an xr5t or the mps ,but on paper the mps look superior, was the mps to much , I am curious as to why you chose your xr5t over the mps.
I have grown up about as much as I can at 38. You say my attitude is pathetic and I am the problem with this country. you come on here with your attitude of aussie cars are crap and that their not good enough for you .sorry but that is the problem with this country ,buying to much crap from overseas .I own four cars , 3 fords and 1 holden(did I say that) that I have had to buy with my own money, I own a few dollars on one but dont see where your coming from there.But I could never fork out good money on a focus(while I sort of like the styling its starting to look outdated rather quickly and would probably look dated standing next to the new fiesta) I would like to test drive one though just to see how it stacks up. .you also mentioned my intelligence resembles a blade of grass, a blade of glass can be very sharp at both ends so I assume that was a compliment, thanks for that ,you have obviuosly read some of my posts.

Might have something to do with how many cylinders the car has mate. Did someone just cut the grass?

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by dave289

focus ,fiesta not a lot of difference is there, xr5t(should,nt that have been an xr4t).while it does get good reviews I could never really see myself buying such a car ,I have never driven an xr5t or the mps ,but on paper the mps look superior, was the mps to much , I am curious as to why you chose your xr5t over the mps.

XR5T and XR4 are different cars, obviously you have no idea about the products Ford offer outside of America and Australia. The XR5T is 2.5 I5 Turbo in a Focus, whereas the XR4 is a NA 2.0 4 cylinder. I understand you couldn't own one, I wouldn't want everyone to have to drive the same car.
Maybe you should go and test one though, just to see. I chose the XR5T as it was more comfortable, sounded better, handled better and for the price I got the XR5, was about 10k cheaper.

I have grown up about as much as I can at 38. You say my attitude is pathetic and I am the problem with this country. you come on here with your attitude of aussie cars are crap and that their not good enough for you .sorry but that is the problem with this country ,buying to much crap from overseas .I own four cars , 3 fords and 1 holden(did I say that) that I have had to buy with my own money, I own a few dollars on one but dont see where your coming from there.But I could never fork out good money on a focus(while I sort of like the styling its starting to look outdated rather quickly and would probably look dated standing next to the new fiesta) I would like to test drive one though just to see how it stacks up. .you also mentioned my intelligence resembles a blade of grass, a blade of glass can be very sharp at both ends so I assume that was a compliment, thanks for that ,you have obviuosly read some of my posts.

My attitude on the local car industry is more about surviving a global crisis and how to compete with the world wide market. If you hadn't noticed there is a small thing called globalisation, we're not the market we once were in the 70's. I stand by my comment in regards to you being the problem with this country. How can you force people to buy a product they don't need or want just because it is made locally? Why penalise people for wanting a better product? If you think outside of your tiny cube you would see that Ford and Holden need to re think their strategy, their cars are not selling, so wouldn't it better for them to re evaluate their products and look at it from a global perspective? They can continue to build the barges, but how about looking at exports, providing innovation within their products to compete with the other makes around the world? How about improving their processes, updating union contracts to reflect the move to the 21st century? How about taking the Falcon and Commodore from the pedestal and sharing that pedestal with other vehicles in their ranges, mid sized and small cars. That way we can all benefit and these companies will continue to exist.

Putting your head in the sand and forcing taxes to penalise imported cars is not the way to go, it provides no benefit to anyone.

[mik]

Originally Posted by Dave_au

You mean impose a tax people for choosing otherwise (quality/quality + cost/low cost) as our local industry is (alledgedly) inept to provide the same.

I've had enough of Governments trying to dictate what I can and can't do, or what I can or can't afford.

i don`t think thats the case the problem is our local car companies cant afford to to go the extra mile to get that slightly higher standard, in other post`s many have said our local car companies have been running at a loss for some year`s, to me i would rather have imports a little more pricey, and and give them a chance to catch up, those unpatriotic buggers that don`t want to support our local jobs can pay i little more for imports(FLAME SUIT ON) : .