6 T/B intake manifold.

[BI6TIM]

Walkinshaw how could one go about using this Alpha-N system. Also is it true that the standard falcon system is the MAP.

[Walkinshaw]

Alpha N is a way of tuning using TPS and rpm as the two input sensors for calculatiing fuel load. This is used when either very aggressive cams (280deg@50+) or individual throttles are used due to their low idle vacuum, and the fact that vacuum almost dissapears when you crack the throttles even a little bit.

Tuning with AlphaN is as easy as selecting it in your choice of ECU's software.

The stock falcon ECU runs on a MAP system.

[EB Pete]

Originally Posted by Walkinshaw

Alpha N is a way of tuning using TPS and rpm as the two input sensors for calculatiing fuel load. This is used when either very aggressive cams (280deg@50+) or individual throttles are used due to their low idle vacuum, and the fact that vacuum almost dissapears when you crack the throttles even a little bit.

Tuning with AlphaN is as easy as selecting it in your choice of ECU's software.

The stock falcon ECU runs on a MAP system.

so why when you get a large cam do you need a new computer? i heard the MAP is not big enough on the standard one?

[Qwikcorty]

Originally Posted by EB Pete

so why when you get a large cam do you need a new computer? i heard the MAP is not big enough on the standard one?

because the vacuum on idle drops with a larger cam and the ecu thinks you have your foot down so adds more fuel, and then the bad idle starts, if it will idle.

[Walkinshaw]

Originally Posted by Qwikcorty

because the vacuum on idle drops with a larger cam and the ecu thinks you have your foot down so adds more fuel, and then the bad idle starts, if it will idle.

Bingo.

Also with large cams/ITB's, a slight crack of the throttle will push the MAP to almost atmospheric which confuses the hell out of the stock ECU as it thinks you're flat on the throttle.

[Rowy,xr6]

Mitchg911, i just wanted to know what sort of ecu tweek you have done to let the motor spin past 6 grand, i really hate not being able to do that.

Plus, are the t/bs specially made for this sort of application or are they just off a car like a hyundia excel

[gthofan]

has anybody heard of using kawasaki carby's???

[banarcus]

The size of the car(falcon) and day to day driving(around town, in traffic etc) then this set up is far from ideal from the original manifold. You would lose a bit of low down torque with the multi TB set up and its really only suited to a high rpm motor which the ford 4.0 isn't suited to. Nice effort nonetheless though....

[Aaron_EF8]

Have you read any of the thread?

It's been said several times IR manifolds, if setup properly will have MORE midrange torque than the stock BBM.

Again, if they are set up properly, they are fine in a road car, BMW use them in the M5, and that isn't exactly lacking in power, nor is it hard to drive at lower RPM.

[justfordima]

Walkinshaw - its been running a MAP based tuning, I haven't had time to move onto Alpha-N, basically I just wanted to get her running, and then use Alpha-N down low (blending).

Accel Enrichments are done through TPS, I find the MAP sensor too hard to use with that little vacuum, especially when it's so erratic.

The price for the manifold is 1500 dollars as stated by Walkinshaw. This includes everything. Install your own injectors bolt it on and go.

The stock ECU will not cope with this manifold, also as Walkinshaw has stated. It will run on the standard ECU, but it WILL kill spark plugs just from been over fueled. This is what happened on my car, we ran it on the stock ecu, just to test that.

All the people wondering about torque, it pulls harder than the stock manifold, and pulls up steep hills in 5th no worries. This really suprised all of us as we were expecting to loose all down low torque until 3 grand, but this definately wasn't the case.

The manifold pictured is a prototype, and the commercial manifolds will have custom machined throttle bodies, trumpets and filtration. An illustration can be supplied.

Driveability wise, this car is great to drive, no issues with hunting or stalling, open the throttle and it makes awesome noises, and pulls all the way to 6 grand, and would go beyond (but Im not that cruel, only sometimes).


Cheers
Dima, Mitch, Jaysen

[banarcus]

Originally Posted by Aaron_EF8

Have you read any of the thread?

It's been said several times IR manifolds, if setup properly will have MORE midrange torque than the stock BBM.

Again, if they are set up properly, they are fine in a road car, BMW use them in the M5, and that isn't exactly lacking in power, nor is it hard to drive at lower RPM.

Not wanting to detract from the vehicle's owner and the rest of the discussion but I based my prior comments on experience from a Ford OHC 2L point of view and I found in my particular application(very similar to the one discussed here) that it was great in a high revving motor but in the lower part of the rev range and in traffic, it was far from ideal. Sorry for not reading the whole thread when commenting, I will rectify this in the future .

[T_Terror]

I think 4L will mask any low-rpm airflow deficinces, you dont see people complaining about hard-cammed V8s being limp wristed in the low revs for the same reason.


Im curious, would it be worthwhile destroking the motor so that you can take advantage of teh high-rpm breathability?

[EFFalcon]

i know of one TUrbo EA thats experimenting with a destroked setup to try get some more power out of it.
nothing exciting to post about yet :P

[niko]

why does the man have to explain why bmw have a good thing going, engineers get payed big bux, youd bloody hope that there making something good

[FPVWEPN]

Could these manifolds be legal in victoria as you are allowed to make one modification to the intake???????

[Walkinshaw]

Originally Posted by FPVWEPN

Could these manifolds be legal in victoria as you are allowed to make one modification to the intake???????

I highly doubt they will be legal, unless i suppose you retain the stock ECU ;)

Honestly officer, read the lable on the ecu 96DA xxxxxx its a meg.., i mean EECV

[FPVWEPN]

or an e-series edit

[justfordima]

I think the law in NSW is filtered and in a box, and Im sure the two can be accomplished. I dunno about VIC though.

Cheers

[honer]

Where is the dyno figures for these cars ladies ? Has their been a stock vs this setup dynos taken ?

[NApower]

Since i think i got the only eb with a 6 TB setup in vic i should prob post somthing. 180+rwkw, rev limited to 6800 and after the lightend crank goes in that should get bumped up to 7500. And what can i say about the sound... i carry a box of tissues every where now for when i boot it. The throttle boddies can be made road legal and is the next step for me. The best way ive been told is to run it like extractors but with two inlets. Start with two three inch pipes and split each one into three. Then just pipe them into a box with a panel filter. Get it done by an engineer and its all good.

[Walkinshaw]

Originally Posted by NApower

Since i think i got the only eb with a 6 TB setup in vic i should prob post somthing. 180+rwkw, rev limited to 6800 and after the lightend crank goes in that should get bumped up to 7500. And what can i say about the sound... i carry a box of tissues every where now for when i boot it. The throttle boddies can be made road legal and is the next step for me. The best way ive been told is to run it like extractors but with two inlets. Start with two three inch pipes and split each one into three. Then just pipe them into a box with a panel filter. Get it done by an engineer and its all good.

180rwkw and 97mph ?

[EFFalcon]

Originally Posted by NApower

Since i think i got the only eb with a 6 TB setup in vic i should prob post somthing. 180+rwkw, rev limited to 6800 and after the lightend crank goes in that should get bumped up to 7500. And what can i say about the sound... i carry a box of tissues every where now for when i boot it. The throttle boddies can be made road legal and is the next step for me. The best way ive been told is to run it like extractors but with two inlets. Start with two three inch pipes and split each one into three. Then just pipe them into a box with a panel filter. Get it done by an engineer and its all good.

Do you have any 60' times from your runs at calder??

[EB Pete]

sorry to go off topic here but after reading about a lighter crank i was wondering if stroking the 4.0l would be very effective/possible. i read something a while ago about these motors not being able to rev due to a larger stroke then bore or am i way off the planet with that. just asking cause if someone had the money to get it designed would it be possible/practical/effective and if it's a stupid question don't hold it against me please.


pete j

[Walkinshaw]

Stroking a 4.0 is NOT a good idea. It already has a horrible Stroke/rod ratio. A better bet for an out and out race engine would be to use the EA 3.2 crank and liquid sleve the bores

[EB Pete]

Originally Posted by Walkinshaw

Stroking a 4.0 is NOT a good idea. It already has a horrible Stroke/rod ratio. A better bet for an out and out race engine would be to use the EA 3.2 crank and liquid sleve the bores

ok. so what the hell is liquid sleve the bores mean? so am i right in saying for a motor to rev a bigger bore then stroke is needed?

[justfordima]

Well, I can't give you before figures, and so far all Ive pulled with my manifold is 150rwkw.. but the AFR was shot to **** (as it wasn't tuned), and since then it goes alot better. So its going on the dyno asap.. and more importantly the quarter mile.


Cheers

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by EB Pete

sorry to go off topic here but after reading about a lighter crank i was wondering if stroking the 4.0l would be very effective/possible. i read something a while ago about these motors not being able to rev due to a larger stroke then bore or am i way off the planet with that. just asking cause if someone had the money to get it designed would it be possible/practical/effective and if it's a stupid question don't hold it against me please.


pete j

What you are talking about is 'square'. If stroke is longer than bore size, then its designed to deliver torque/power at lower revs rather than high rev power/torque. I understand the concepts to a point, so Ill leave it at that and let someone else detail it.

If you look at indy cars, they rev to something like 14,000 rpm and are either square (equal bore and stroke), or undersquare designs (Bore exceeds stroke). Maybe its oversquare, i always get oversquare and undersaquare ar5e about.

[Walkinshaw]

Originally Posted by justfordima

Well, I can't give you before figures, and so far all Ive pulled with my manifold is 150rwkw.. but the AFR was shot to **** (as it wasn't tuned), and since then it goes alot better. So its going on the dyno asap.. and more importantly the quarter mile.


Cheers

Im guessing with the Stock ECU (or a stock tune on the MS2) the car was very rich at low throttle inputs and leaned right out up top?

What sort of vacuum at idle are you achieving with the RPD3+6tb's?

[justfordima]

Stock ECU kept killing plugs, and was only run on for experimentation as to explain what would happen. The MSII was barely tuned, and was WAY lean down low, and was way too rich up top, and the dyno run was stopped the second time and we had to escape the building and vent it all out, the eyes were just burning too much.

Vacuum at idle, was around 60kPa (40kPa for those that work the other way around). Which is not a great deal, but you get that.


Cheers

[NApower]

Originally Posted by EFFalcon

Do you have any 60' times from your runs at calder??

The figures are in the board with every one elses.