I want the truth.....about cams - Page 3

blueoval · 12-01-2009, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sox

Like the guy below this post just said, you don't need a big cam, and probably the one you gave specs for earlier on in this thread or similar would the trick.
Personally I would look at a DEV3 or DEV3HL with some minor head work.

Should be a very nice well behaved performance street car.
It would likely still run mid to high 14's with normal gearing and street type running gear.

Good post Rik, thanks for that estimate. Thats basically what Im after. still quick enough for some fun but not over the top.

The Monty · 12-01-2009, 05:17 PM

Question for people, cam specs are great and all, but what do they mean. Would anyone be willing to tell us what each part of the spec means? For instance :

IN. 35/75 290 230 110 .475" 2500
EX.75/35 290 230 .475" 5500
(the 230 is @ 0.75 duration)

What does each part mean relative to how the car will drive, and how power will be achieved.

The only parts I know are duration : (the 230 is @ 0.75 duration), the lower it is, the higher the compression will be, and .475" is lift, but what does each MEAN?

I ordered a cam today, from surecam, I was feeling lucky, so told him what I wanted, where I revved it to, the head I have for it to go in, yadda yadda yadda, and he told me he would do a nice one from billet, but the only info I got was duration, which is 218 @ .50, which I dont know much about, but said I would trust him to do me a grind, with the intentions of a 13. He said he will give it to me to run to 6000rpm, no higher is needed, and give me a bit more compression, and it would be classed as a street strip cam. Was also $499 delivered, for billet, which I didnt think was too bad, as I couldnt be bothered stuffing around with shims and whatnot.

ayeyew · 12-01-2009, 05:34 PM

Lift - how much the valve is lifted off its seat at the lobes highest point. In General, opening quicker and further will increase engine output. Increasing lift without changing duration can increase power without much change to the curve.

Duration - Angle in crankshaft degrees that the valve stays off its seat during the lifting cycle of the cam lobe. Increasing duration keeps the valve open longer and can increase high-rpm power. Doing this increases the rpm range that the engine produces power. Increasing duration without changing lobe seperation angle will result in valve overlap

Overlap - Angle in crankshaft degrees that both in and ex valves are open. Occurs at the end of the exhaust stroke and beginning of the intake stroke. Increasing lift or decreasing lobe seperation increases overlap. Increased overlap = higher top end, but reduces low-end and idle quality (put, put, put)

dunno wtf half of that means, but it sounds good

Mack 6 · 12-01-2009, 05:40 PM

Shav, next time there's a meet, come over and come for a spin. I have a JMM DEV3HL with flasher and a few other things. I get about 144rwkw but oodles of torque. As mentioned earlier in the thread, I lose out a bit with the auto and not having a higher stall convertor fitted.
Don't ask me 1/4 mile times, but i can squeeze out a 1.33 at mallala, and that was before putting in 3.45's and a LSD

blueoval · 12-01-2009, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mack 6

Shav, next time there's a meet, come over and come for a spin. I have a JMM DEV3HL with flasher and a few other things. I get about 144rwkw but oodles of torque. As mentioned earlier in the thread, I lose out a bit with the auto and not having a higher stall convertor fitted.
Don't ask me 1/4 mile times, but i can squeeze out a 1.33 at mallala, and that was before putting in 3.45's and a LSD

Mate Im gonna take you up on that. You have basically what I am looking for. You just tell me when and where.

Mack 6 · 12-01-2009, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueoval

You just tell me when and where.

Funny story. I drove past your work today according to your sig. I'll take you out if you can give us some advice on building my new house. LOL

blueoval · 12-01-2009, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mack 6

Funny story. I drove past your work today according to your sig. I'll take you out if you can give us some advice on building my new house. LOL

you got it mate. Pop in anytime you see my car parked out front.

**Stav** · 12-01-2009, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fordfan4u

There is a couple of cars hovering around the very low 14's, tripower 14.2, stav 14.2, stiddy 14.1 or a 14.0 i cant remember anymore and hamo 14.3 are the main ones that come to memory.
There was a bloke on fordmods with an AU XR6, It's Performance built motor with a haltec interceptor tune.. ran a 13.9 but his motor ended up blowing.
Theres a few quick 6's around that keep to themselves and aren't on the forums.

Firstly ..there is a bit of misinformation here.. No one from ford mods has run a 13.9 in an au. The person you are refering to is Shuggs. From memory he never got to the track.The fastest its performance six I know of is a ef falcon at 14.181.It is my friend fordfreak.It is not an au. It has been stated before this falacy and again I rebutted it.
If Stiddy has run a 14.1 it is news to me because I can guarantee you he would have at least called me to let me know.he is a mate!! Are you Nat? I spoke to Stidds a little while back and he told me he was going to sell it as an unfinished project as he bought a ba xr8.

When did stidds run a 14 or 14.1? I would have thought youd at least remember the time. Also last time we spoke it was not registered..who are you man?

tripower 14.226
stav 14.241
hamo 14.301.

These are the confirmed results so far. If stidds is for real ask him to email me . If he has done it then I take my hat off to hikm

Fordfan4u · 12-01-2009, 10:13 PM

Im a newbie to this forum, I wasnt a fordman until I got my XR8. Matt (Stiddy) told me to come on here when I got the 8 so I could read up about them, info on them and what not and also for a laugh because of the 'n00bs'.
Stiddy's XR8 (the reason I got an XR8, He took me for a burst in his and I had to have one) is currently unregistered until he sorts out some issues, the 6 unregistered up until april 08 because he lost his licence and got it back in april.
I know he ran a 14.1, and swore he was going into the 13's that night, got a 14.01 or 14.10 and he was ****ed off and screwed the slip up and tried again for the 13's. Didnt get it that night. He was blaming the tune and limiter.
He's not on the forums anymore so really what anyone says about his car or times are pointless now, he's doing it to have fun in not to impress people on the internet.
Sorry stav, I dont know you, and to be blunt and honest, I dont think it really matter s what you say or what times you think can or cant be achieved from his car. Believe it or dont believe it, I was just making a comments on here about it. I know the car almost aswell as he does, because I've helped alot, especially over the last 4 months.
When was the last time you spoke to stiddy? maybe you should call him if your such a good mate and speak to him about it. Or email him.

Fordfan

EDIT: I just rang him and asked him, he said it was a 14.0@98mph.. BUT I was wrong about his RPM limit, its not set at 7600rpm, it was pushed that hard, but made no extra power so the limiter is set at 7000rpm and he said he still doesnt push it that high. Sorry for the mix up. He also just said to me not to get tied up in this argument because I wont win and it will go around in circles.

**Stav** · 13-01-2009, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fordfan4u

Im a newbie to this forum, I wasnt a fordman until I got my XR8. Matt (Stiddy) told me to come on here when I got the 8 so I could read up about them, info on them and what not and also for a laugh because of the 'n00bs'.
Stiddy's XR8 (the reason I got an XR8, He took me for a burst in his and I had to have one) is currently unregistered until he sorts out some issues, the 6 unregistered up until april 08 because he lost his licence and got it back in april.
I know he ran a 14.1, and swore he was going into the 13's that night, got a 14.01 or 14.10 and he was ****ed off and screwed the slip up and tried again for the 13's. Didnt get it that night. He was blaming the tune and limiter.
He's not on the forums anymore so really what anyone says about his car or times are pointless now, he's doing it to have fun in not to impress people on the internet.
Sorry stav, I dont know you, and to be blunt and honest, I dont think it really matter s what you say or what times you think can or cant be achieved from his car. Believe it or dont believe it, I was just making a comments on here about it. I know the car almost aswell as he does, because I've helped alot, especially over the last 4 months.
When was the last time you spoke to stiddy? maybe you should call him if your such a good mate and speak to him about it. Or email him.

Fordfan

EDIT: I just rang him and asked him, he said it was a 14.0@98mph.. BUT I was wrong about his RPM limit, its not set at 7600rpm, it was pushed that hard, but made no extra power so the limiter is set at 7000rpm and he said he still doesnt push it that high. Sorry for the mix up. He also just said to me not to get tied up in this argument because I wont win and it will go around in circles.

To be blunt with you ford fan..a friend of stiddys is a friend of mine

Welcome to the forums. I had a chat with him last night and he did say the car ran the time. If Stiddy says he ran it I have no reason to doubt the guy.

Good going stidds. Ford fan ..next time stidds goes out I told him to let me know. We will meet and have a chat hopefully.

Fordfan..yes there are a lot of critics who do ask questions but I want you to know I now do not doubt what your saying. These is alot left in these cars .It is just finding the right combo and spending the money to make it happen. I was modifying my car until it started falling apart with age as they do. This did cut short my modifications as repairs were mandatory. Priorities did take centre stage so at this point om my 5th gearbox I am calling it a part retirement.

Fordfan4u · 13-01-2009, 02:32 PM

Thanks Stav. Appreciate it mate.

Wade Cams · 23-02-2009, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueoval

Wade Cams - dont do cams for AU's and even if they do they are re-grinds.

Since we are no longer a sponsor of this forum, l will confine my remarks to stating that both the statements mentioned above are incorrect.

Cheers

Chris

blueoval · 23-02-2009, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wade Cams

Since we are no longer a sponsor of this forum, l will confine my remarks to stating that both the statements mention above are incorrect.

Cheers

Chris

Thats good to hear now Chris. Thanks for clearing this up

The Monty · 23-02-2009, 03:10 PM

Ive seen multiple threads on AU cams in the Wade section, and the reply was always "We basically dont do cams for AU's".

blueoval · 23-02-2009, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Monty

Ive seen multiple threads on AU cams in the Wade section, and the reply was always "We basically dont do cams for AU's".

That was my initial findings also, but things might have changed now. I guess an independent investigation is needed to confirm this.

Wade Cams · 23-02-2009, 04:27 PM

OK, I'll probably get "banned" by the moderators for going into too much detail....but.....we have always indicated that we don't do AU cams where there is an AU ECU being used. The AU ECU does not, at least where our cams are concerned, adapt to the "changed" cam profile. When it's an AU hybrid, with an E series ECU, or, there's an aftermarket "programmable" ECU fitted, there have been no problems.

So, what we've alluded to, or at least should have, is, if you're running an AU ECU, don't use any of our cams. The engine will go into limp mode.

Sorry if we've misled anyone.

The Monty · 23-02-2009, 05:47 PM

Thats fair enough.
Im running a pretty big billet surecam on an AU ecu though, has never gone into LHM yet, makes over 125kw from 4400-6200rpm, and idles relatively good (never stalls at all).
Im using the CAPA Xcal1 to tune it (well Elite auto tunes it), maybe the problem was with the old tuning devices (chiptorque and unichip) and not the ECU? Or perhaps the tuner side of it.

Theres no way you should be banned by saying what youve said, its great to be able to have discussions about things like this. Thats what the forums are for.
You guys were going to be my choice of cam, but I just gathered you didnt do one for the AU, otherwise I may be running one.
No hard feelings, just a communication error.

And thanks for having the time to come on here and talk us through the details a bit more, we all appreciate it, knowledge of any sort is wonderful, and when that knowledge comes from a very reputable supplier of performance parts, everyone should be listening and learing.

blueoval · 23-02-2009, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Monty

Thats fair enough.
Im running a pretty big billet surecam on an AU ecu though, has never gone into LHM yet, makes over 125kw from 4400-6200rpm, and idles relatively good (never stalls at all).
Im using the CAPA Xcal1 to tune it (well Elite auto tunes it), maybe the problem was with the old tuning devices (chiptorque and unichip) and not the ECU? Or perhaps the tuner side of it.

Theres no way you should be banned by saying what youve said, its great to be able to have discussions about things like this. Thats what the forums are for.
You guys were going to be my choice of cam, but I just gathered you didnt do one for the AU, otherwise I may be running one.
No hard feelings, just a communication error.

And thanks for having the time to come on here and talk us through the details a bit more, we all appreciate it, knowledge of any sort is wonderful, and when that knowledge comes from a very reputable supplier of performance parts, everyone should be listening and learing.

well said.

having a cam for an AU regardless of brand requires some sort of ecu recalibration of some kind anyway. Had we have known wade do cams for AU's with a proviso that an ecu chip or computer recal was needed, i believe you would have got more business.

Now that we all know this, we can include your cams as an option worth looking into.

Fordfan4u · 24-02-2009, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wade Cams

OK, I'll probably get "banned" by the moderators for going into too much detail....but.....we have always indicated that we don't do AU cams where there is an AU ECU being used. The AU ECU does not, at least where our cams are concerned, adapt to the "changed" cam profile. When it's an AU hybrid, with an E series ECU, or, there's an aftermarket "programmable" ECU fitted, there have been no problems.

So, what we've alluded to, or at least should have, is, if you're running an AU ECU, don't use any of our cams. The engine will go into limp mode.

Sorry if we've misled anyone.

An AU ECU wont learn a wade cam? Sorry to say but RUBBISH. How come an AU ECU can learn to other cams, or learn enough to be atleast driveable? Wade cam's arent anything special, althought some are decent grinds, does mean they are anything special enough to throw an AU ECU into a spasm. :togo:
I would be steering well clear of Wade cams now just because of that comment. How can you expect a cam to work well when the tech doesn't know what he's talking about.

:

The Monty · 24-02-2009, 04:54 AM

Just having a look through your popular proflies for an E-series, and the cam I am using is a bit larger than anything listed in you range (.535 lift, 218@.050 duration) and it started first kick and everything. Idles great, good power, all it needed was a tune on the standard AU ecu.

**Stav** · 24-02-2009, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wade Cams

OK, I'll probably get "banned" by the moderators for going into too much detail....but.....we have always indicated that we don't do AU cams where there is an AU ECU being used. The AU ECU does not, at least where our cams are concerned, adapt to the "changed" cam profile. When it's an AU hybrid, with an E series ECU, or, there's an aftermarket "programmable" ECU fitted, there have been no problems.

So, what we've alluded to, or at least should have, is, if you're running an AU ECU, don't use any of our cams. The engine will go into limp mode.

Sorry if we've misled anyone.

Ive got a big cam in my car running with a piggy back ecu in the au.I have tuned it myself to idle etc. I think you will find that the au ecu is a definately a pig to tune but not impossible.The maker of my cam didt recommend the piggy back but it does run well.

Sox · 24-02-2009, 10:09 PM

I had a DEV5 cam in a AU and it idled well, performed well, and behaved under all conditions.
Saw no reason to use a piggback.

private9 · 24-02-2009, 10:17 PM

Interesting....

I've got an EF for my daily, that has a ported head and a Wade 977b cam. If it will run reasonably well with a standard tune for a while, I think I might swap heads onto my AU!

blueoval · 12-05-2009, 12:36 PM

Can anyone tell me what the cost will be to put in an xr6 grind cam in my engine as well as time frame to fit it?

I was thinking about putting in a second hand xr6 cam in. Would I need to reshim the lash adjusters? Can I get away with standard valve springs? Is it a straight swap and tune scenario?

ebxr82nv · 12-05-2009, 12:58 PM

You would be better to get a custom ground billet to suit your shiiny new blower. What ever you do, upgrade the springs anyway. Doesn't hurt to over engineer.

blueoval · 12-05-2009, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ebxr82nv

You would be better to get a custom ground billet to suit your shiiny new blower. What ever you do, upgrade the springs anyway. Doesn't hurt to over engineer.

thanks. I guess its better to do it properly than to cut corners.

ebxr82nv · 12-05-2009, 01:10 PM

I can't see any reason why you couldn't get the parts, fit and get it tuned for around $1500. I can't remember off the top of my head weather you need lift or duration on a forced setup.

blueoval · 12-05-2009, 01:19 PM

I thought it was duration for forced induction.

LG · 12-05-2009, 01:37 PM

JMM currently hold the quickest TQE time.. Enough said. Even with the seats out or no sway bar, whatever. They still hold the fastest time.

Like Soxx has said, you must choose the right cam, for the right application. There is no point in putting in a massive cam, designed to work with headwork, without the headwork. Sure some people still made power of those cams, but you will never get the most out of it.

And again, if you want that further optimum performance, get the tune to suit the engine, as with any modification.

OED666 · 18-12-2009, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stav

A OED who I consider a mate..had run 14.2's from memory first with the cam then modified a few other items to reach the 13.8 in a much lighter ed. Maybe he could fill us in on those mods?

I know I am thread mining...

These are the mods I had to my car when I ran a 14.2
AU XR6 Motor
Surecam
Pacemaker Comps
2 1/2" Exhaust
CAI
T5Z
4.11's
ChipTorque Chip

I had clutch issues (pressure plate not releasing at high rpm). So I went to a 10.5" BA Mk1 Flywheel and 10.5" clutch. Then I was able to run a 13.8 & 13.9.

Since then I havent been able to get my times that low since. I now have a 6 speed and hydraulic clutch. Its much harder to launch as there isnt as much "feel" with the clutch pedal. Plus I think the ol 4.0L is getting tired. Its copped 5 years of hard labour!