Ford plans to have a four-cylinder engine available on every car it sells by 2013. - Page 3

Bossxr8 · 19-02-2009, 11:09 PM

It would make sense if the 4 cylinder was dropped along with the V6, as for the 6 cylinder to remain viable it needs enough volume to keep it going, if buyers choose another engine over the 6 and production numbers of them drop low enough it will mean the engine plant will run at a loss. God knows things are hard enough for us at the moment without having other engines to compete with.

In saying that though I thought the Ecoboost 4 cylinder would have been excellent for Ford to sell as an economical, environmentally friendly variant. Would have made good power too, over 200 kw.

Gobes32 · 19-02-2009, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

It would make sense if the 4 cylinder was dropped along with the V6, as for the 6 cylinder to remain viable it needs enough volume to keep it going, if buyers choose another engine over the 6 and production numbers of them drop low enough it will mean the engine plant will run at a loss. God knows things are hard enough for us at the moment without having other engines to compete with.

In saying that though I thought the Ecoboost 4 cylinder would have been excellent for Ford to sell as an economical, environmentally friendly variant. Would have made good power too, over 200 kw.

Which is why we should fight tooth and nail to build the 4cyl here..........

If we plan to make 40,000 Focus cars a year then all of a sudden a 4cyl production line does not sound so stupid. And by rights we should receive money off K Rudd for building "Green" motors here in Australia.

schnoods · 19-02-2009, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikked

Exactly...

Did the starfire harm the comodore...?

No but it did defeat the purpose of being in there.... Fuel economy went down instead of up as the driver had to thrash the car to keep up with traffic..

But the merit was there. It was only there for a short while, the VH had canned it.

Ohio XB · 20-02-2009, 02:57 AM

At the Detroit Auto Show Ford unveiled the Lincoln "C concept car, a C class (compact) sized car. Thinking outside of the box I suppose. It had a 1.6L EcoBoost engine that made 180 HP and ft. lbs of torque and gets 43 MPG, as tested.

I don't know what the fuel mileage on the larger 4 cylinder EcoBoost engine is like yet.

I was told by the Ford "engine man" that the EcoBoost engine is going to vastly improve Ford's carbon footprint, which seems to be a bigger concern than we would think, whether due to company image or government mandates.

Most Toyotas sold in the US are FWD. Toyota sold a few more cars in the US than GM did this past year. So as far as being able to sell RWD cars here, I would say they are quite the minority. Also as many have said, a lot of people have no clue if their car is FWD or RWD.....or even know what that means.

Try telling someone "Yeah, it's got 350 HP" and then say "...it's a V6".....and see if they say "Oh? If it's a 6 I don't want it then." I don't think that will happen too many times, especially after they get behind the wheel and push the pedal.

Same thing with the 6 cylinder crowd. If you tell them "Yeah, it's got 240 HP" and then say "....it's a 4 banger..." I think they will be more amazed than turned off.

It's the 80's again........but not the 80's. It's a return to smaller, lighter fuel efficient cars, but not with the dog engines, and there will still be larger vehicles as well.

Steve

greenfoam · 20-02-2009, 04:35 AM

It's not the 80s we are right at the edge of the combustion engines useful life as the primary power source in cars. Very powerful electric motors and good batterys are well on the way, they weren't in the 80s. Anyone that's seen in the last year or so how a brushless/Lipo powered RC car can destroy a 30,000 rpm Nitro 2 stoke will have seen the light, the tech will upscale well, it's only time.

In the meantime Ford has allready layed the master stroke by planing to send the new Focus and Fiesta world wide, my wife has he new Fiesta and it's very _right_now_, no sensible person would choose a Falcon over it even for the same money. Anyone that drives one around for a while would say the same, it one European car of the year outright and the small car class the other day.

Ford will do well and get out of it's hole no problems on those 2 cars alone. The Falcon and Commodore and anything else over 1300 kgs are good as gone, it's only a matter of time, sales will continue to drop if not on fuel consumption worries then carbon emmisions alone. Europeans are buying cars depending on how low the emmisions are allready and we will follow (just takes longer for us to catch on) and a bit longer again for the even slower Americanos. I love my RWD V8s as much as the next guy but the time for them really is over gone finished finito vamanos, the end

P.S as for the question of what Ford and Holden would have to do to make me buy one of their cars?, a couple of years ago I made a post about the same thing and said anything over 1400 kgs is rubbish and history, I nearly got laughed off the forum :p. Times have changed pretty quick. There's no reason Holden or Ford AU can't make a 1300kg something rwd Hatchback with 200kw, will they? no. Will they fail if they keep building 1700-2000kg oil tankers on wheels? yes

Jayden · 20-02-2009, 08:15 AM

I would rather see the falcon line axed than converted to camry spec.

I love its history and RWD too much, and the sound of the i6 is far nicer than any 4cyl.

andrewr · 20-02-2009, 09:32 AM

You can't compare an engine such as the allalloy 2.3L duratec to crappy old commodore engines. These engines are great and make a lot of power ofr their size (160hp std). They also have lots of potential for modification.

Cobra · 20-02-2009, 10:16 AM

If Falcon is to get a 4 cylinder and or go FWD then just can it and be done! If it's going to change from what is always has been, retire it off and start fresh. At least if the Falcon is killed off after 2013, I can live forever knowing that the Falcon never had a gay V6 or 4 cylinder put in it, and it was never made into a mid sized FWD POS. It will become and collectors item to enthusiasts, more so obviously, the performance variants. I can buy an F6 and a T3, and whilst pottering around in my ecoboost family hack, can reminisce about the good old days when real cars existed.

**ebxr8240** · 20-02-2009, 10:26 AM

A well sorted turbo 4 or V6 in fwd can be fine..BUT up to now Aussie has loved the low rpm torque of its motors..
Add a turbo with good management it should be fine..
The worry is reliability!!
Ford at times trip over themselves in this dept ..

Romulus · 20-02-2009, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueoval

I'd rather see 130kw/420Nm TD 3L similar to the Navara

I was thinking more along the lines of Mitsubishi Pajero's 140kw and 441nm 3.2l turbo diesel engine. A great performer, very torquey and excellent on fuel.

The European manufacturers especially have common rail turbo diesel engines nailed, producing powerful, torquey and extremely fuel efficient engines in their passenger vehicles. Performance of a TDCi engine can almost be matched to a petrol powered engine.

It's a no brainer for a heavy vehicle to have a TDCi engine option.

Those that mention Holden's starfire engine and Ford's 3.2l EA engine must be on a different planet. Engine design, computing power, fuel standards have completely changed since then.

Cappy_Hamper · 20-02-2009, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenfoam

In the meantime Ford has allready layed the master stroke by planing to send the new Focus and Fiesta world wide, my wife has he new Fiesta and it's very _right_now_, no sensible person would choose a Falcon over it even for the same money. Anyone that drives one around for a while would say the same, it one European car of the year outright and the small car class the other day.

Are you seriously comparing a Focus and Fiesta against a Falcon?

: I drove a Fiesta at work for a day (did around 200ks) and my mum has a Focus. I have driven a few BA's and BF's and own a ED and a Magna. I would rather drive my ED than any Focus, Fiesta or Magna purely for the comfort and room inside. Not to mention the torque steer the Magna suffers from and the feeling of Sardines in the Focus and Fiesta.

bd737 · 20-02-2009, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cappy_Hamper

Are you seriously comparing a Focus and Fiesta against a Falcon?

: I drove a Fiesta at work for a day (did around 200ks) and my mum has a Focus. I have driven a few BA's and BF's and own a ED and a Magna. I would rather drive my ED than any Focus, Fiesta or Magna purely for the comfort and room inside. Not to mention the torque steer the Magna suffers from and the feeling of Sardines in the Focus and Fiesta.

I can't stand the smugness of some small car drivers, especially the diesel driving ones. Just wait till our full-sized 'oil burners' get Duratec turbo-petrols in them - the days of needing a girly little lightweight hatchback for great economy will be gone.

(Not that our dinosaur oil burners are that bad! 10.0l/100km in my BF, 12.5 on gas)

blueoval · 20-02-2009, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVS Super Pursuit

I was thinking more along the lines of Mitsubishi Pajero's 140kw and 441nm 3.2l turbo diesel engine. A great performer, very torquey and excellent on fuel.

The European manufacturers especially have common rail turbo diesel engines nailed, producing powerful, torquey and extremely fuel efficient engines in their passenger vehicles. Performance of a TDCi engine can almost be matched to a petrol powered engine.

It's a no brainer for a heavy vehicle to have a TDCi engine option.

Those that mention Holden's starfire engine and Ford's 3.2l EA engine must be on a different planet. Engine design, computing power, fuel standards have completely changed since then.

Yep, that sort of power I could live with in a Falcon TDi

Road_Warrior · 20-02-2009, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenfoam

no sensible person would choose a Falcon over it even for the same money.

Try driving 1000klm in the middle of summer towing a trailer and see how 'sensible' it is then.

Gobes32 · 20-02-2009, 02:45 PM

You guys are missing the point, Not enough people want large rwd sedans for them to be a viable manufacturing option anymore. We can scream as much as we want but at the end of the day we aren't buying enough of them. We are the minority and the eco hippies in Corolla's and Camry's are the majority. Majority always wins.........

EgoFG · 20-02-2009, 03:11 PM

Would a 4pot mower given away with each Territory meet this requirement ?

chevypower · 20-02-2009, 03:37 PM

Everyone on this forum seems to be screaming and kicking.... "i don't want it, wahhhh, waaaaahhhhhh!!!" But when it comes out they will be raving about how good it actually is, and how they wish they to own it. You know when the car magazines report "it actually does get 6L per 100km and does 0-100 in 7 seconds, still has the feel of a 4 litre six cylinder, and is the size of any other Falcon, and it's still RWD" Couple the EcoBoost with a DSG style transmission (no torque convertor), the fuel economy difference should be significant.

The 3.5L V6 EcoBoost has 260kw/475Nm, and if that made it to the Falcon, it would get better economy than the standard N/A six cylinder. The 2.0L EcoBoost 4 cyl gets 205kw/380Nm and should get much better again!!! The 3.5 is definitely going in the F150, and the 2.0L is under consideration for the single cab XL 4x2 F150. If it's powerful enough for an F150, it can certainly handle the weight of a Falcon. It's designed for towing, so it's not going to be like a Subaru WRX STi engine in a truck!

vztrt · 20-02-2009, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenfoam

Europeans are buying cars depending on how low the emmisions are allready and we will follow (just takes longer for us to catch on) and a bit longer again for the even slower Americanos. I love my RWD V8s as much as the next guy but the time for them really is over gone finished finito vamanos, the end

Europeans buy cars based on fuel consumption, they have so many years due to fuel being expensive. Emissions are mandated by the government.
This is one of the main reasons why there are great small diesels over there.

In saying that small cars are great in short drives in the city. Out in the open they aren't all that comfortable, fuel economy is close to city driving, and for me makes me want to stop more (which gets annoying), and overtaking is interesting.

Europe is a different place with a different way of life. To them a 350km trip is huge when for a us its a weekend trip. I talk to family o/s and tell them about driving to Brisbane (1800km) and they cant believe it.

Cobra · 20-02-2009, 03:42 PM

If this ecoboost 4 is as good as some are saying, how bloody good would it go in a focus then!? 205kw/380nm, woah, get rid of that Volvo motor now!

ILLaViTaR · 20-02-2009, 03:44 PM

Oh No. Oh Please God No!!!!!!!

Ohio XB · 20-02-2009, 05:14 PM

I was just thinking about how many F-150's were built in the 1970's and 1980's with a 302 with 165 - 180 HP. Now you can get a 4 cylinder (well, in 2010) that makes over 200 HP. There really isn't any room to complain, except for the sound of the exhaust.

Steve

mrbaxr6t · 20-02-2009, 05:14 PM

Guys I havn't read the entire thread so please forgive me - In my experience the 6 cylinder engine in falcons today is a marvel of modern engineering and borders on science fiction, when they are at speed and you got the cruise control on they don't fire all 6 cylinders (hello small engine economy) whilst being torquey enough to run at 2krpm how the hell else can an I6 deliver 700 kms to a tank of fuel (highway) yes they have a bit of a thirst round town (because it is firing more cylinders to accelerate all the time and is in lower gears). I do not see why what we have now needs to change and I think that a 4 cylinder car couldn't match the highway figures of the I6 we got. This is Australia we have a large barren landscape we NEED cars that are good on the highway. Falcon/c'dore has always suited this way of driving. Can't say I would enjoy sitting behind a 4 cylinder revving at 3,500 to hold 100 km/h for 2 hours.

I can see what ford is trying to do, but the buyers they are targetting already have a car aimed at them - the mondeo. Please leave the Falcon as it is.

**Burnout** · 20-02-2009, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ohio XB

I was just thinking about how many F-150's were built in the 1970's and 1980's with a 302 with 165 - 180 HP. Now you can get a 4 cylinder (well, in 2010) that makes over 200 HP. There really isn't any room to complain, except for the sound of the exhaust.

Steve

This is true, however when FoA brought the F-100 series back to Aus under 10 years ago they were $80,000 retail.
Just out of the average mans reach by about $40,000.......

My info is from a DP that the Falcon is gone 2013, it will be replaced with a Turdus from the US.

I cant just see the value in a FWD Turdus Ute......*perhaps the demolition derby at the Beaudesart Show*

nugget378 · 20-02-2009, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrbaxr6t

Guys I havn't read the entire thread so please forgive me - In my experience the 6 cylinder engine in falcons today is a marvel of modern engineering and borders on science fiction, when they are at speed and you got the cruise control on they don't fire all 6 cylinders (hello small engine economy) whilst being torquey enough to run at 2krpm how the hell else can an I6 deliver 700 kms to a tank of fuel (highway) yes they have a bit of a thirst round town (because it is firing more cylinders to accelerate all the time and is in lower gears). I do not see why what we have now needs to change and I think that a 4 cylinder car couldn't match the highway figures of the I6 we got. This is Australia we have a large barren landscape we NEED cars that are good on the highway. Falcon/c'dore has always suited this way of driving. Can't say I would enjoy sitting behind a 4 cylinder revving at 3,500 to hold 100 km/h for 2 hours.

I can see what ford is trying to do, but the buyers they are targetting already have a car aimed at them - the mondeo. Please leave the Falcon as it is.

We seem to forget sometimes that 90% of our population live on the coast in urban areas, hardly the large barren landscape scenario is it.
I for one think these eco boost engines look very promsing, if our I6 borders on science fiction these things sound like they come from outer space.

I really like the turbo 6 I have, but around town it is a thirsty pig, doing mid 17'skm/100, 450km out of 80 litres is not that good, and that is just driving with the traffic, I can get nearly as good in my roller cammed 7 litre clevor believe it or not.
If the ecoboost 6 has the consumption figures they say, and 260kw, I say bring it on..hell I'd even look at the eco 4 if the car was substantially lighter, whether I would buy one does depend on what the final product would look like in a ute..

chevypower · 20-02-2009, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrbaxr6t

Guys I havn't read the entire thread so please forgive me

You are forgiven, but please read the thread, it just might open your mind. The article was absolute crap, for just saying it's a 2L 4 cyl turbo, it did not mention EcoBoost technology at all, so take the time to look that stuff up too.

vztrt · 20-02-2009, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrbaxr6t

In my experience the 6 cylinder engine in falcons today is a marvel of modern engineering and borders on science fiction, when they are at speed and you got the cruise control on they don't fire all 6 cylinders (hello small engine economy) whilst being torquey enough to run at 2krpm how the hell else can an I6 deliver 700 kms to a tank of fuel (highway) yes they have a bit of a thirst round town (because it is firing more cylinders to accelerate all the time and is in lower gears).

Since when does the I6 have cylinder deactivation? The I6 the timing of the cams and lowers the consumption.

**TUF_302** · 20-02-2009, 06:38 PM

I think this is a brillant idea, If you want to buy toyota, and would like the Aurion, but only in 4cly you get the Camry, It would help Ford emensly to give buyers the choice of either 4 or 6 in the same car!

Mongoose · 20-02-2009, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

Since when does the I6 have cylinder deactivation?

Since the dizzy carked itself

vztrt · 20-02-2009, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mongoose

Since the dizzy carked itself

I'll pay that!

Wretched · 20-02-2009, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobra

If this ecoboost 4 is as good as some are saying, how bloody good would it go in a focus then!? 205kw/380nm, woah, get rid of that Volvo motor now!

I'd rather the Volvo motor thank you.
I am sure the ecoboost 4 is a great motor but the I5T is a work of art and sounds hot too (I love the sound of my XR5T). Here is the upcoming RS, the sound is just horn.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLge9_42S48