Ford and the Future - your say...

[Bossxr8]

The final say always comes from Detroit. FoA can ask for things if they have a business case but only Detroit can approve it.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The final say always comes from Detroit. FoA can ask for things if they have a business case but only Detroit can approve it.

And yet all the vetos of late have come from Ford Australia themselves...

FoA have to submit valid business plans for continuation of Falcon and Territory,
that can only be done after all global alternatives have been dismissed and the USE of
a local design having a distinct marketing advantage.

I would think that the cost of changing is greater than staying with falcon/Territory for now...
2014 falcon costs Ford $50 million for two more years production, add government
subsidized emission development ($20 million) and Falcon gets another two years life until 2018...

[Gadgetman]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

See above in red.

Hi DashGT,

You know way too much about what's going on at dealer level. Which dealer are you at?

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by Gadgetman

Hi DashGT,

You know way too much about what's going on at dealer level. Which dealer are you at?

How? I'm just speculating on what I think needs to be done. I don't work for a dealer.

[Gadgetman]

I am like most others here that believe the final decision is not for the FoA President and CEO to make. Here are reasons why its hard to keep Falcon & Territory going according to gadgetman anyway.
(1) The whole large sedan lack of practicality. Have a look at the boot space of a Mondeo/Mazda 6. Destroys the falcon and commodore. Comparable legroom and kills the falcon for tech.

(2) The perceived fuel economy issues that Falcon has. We (us Ford Enthusiast) know that the Falcon is easy on fuel considering size but the masses that don't simply think they are overpowered and thirsty.

(3) The bogan factor: Well alot of people now want niche vehicles that dont yell taxi when you pull up at a gathering. I was at a gathering last week and couldnt find a VB or a Carlton draught anywhere. There were Stellas. Peroni's, Becks and Asahi's. Now I love my VB's but tell you what, those Asahi's go alright and its only a little dearer plus you get to look all metrosexual drinking it. Bit like driving a volkswagen isnt it. You look Arty. Looks like Falcon and Commodore is suffering the same fate. Way too bogan for the masses. VB have tried Boony dolls, giving away bar fridges and a whole lot more to try and get some of their market share back but has failed dramatically.

(4) Local suppliers. It is getting way to hard for local suppliers to build the low volume that's required for local manufacturers to be price competetive. That has led to a number of these businesses into voluntary administration. Ford then cant get parts like Lpg tanks and guess what, you cant build a falcon for months. Sounds familiar?

(5) Price Competitiveness. Can you build a car in Australia, given what we have to pay the average worker. Liablilties and all the hoops a business has to jump through in order to turn on the lights each day in our country ( I will say that I am not against workcover or any policy that helps against negligence at workplaces) does make it very hard for a business to justify its existence in australia as compared to asian countries. That probably explains why Ford asia pacific did the backflip when it came to LW focus in Australia.

Anyway I'm sure they will work it out. Build the cars that people want that has quality that's higher than its price suggest and you wont lose. Just a shame not many want a Falcon atm.

[jpd80]

With the greatest of respect, you are basing your perceptions on today's Falcon, not what's coming in 2014.

The only major change I would wish FoA to make to the 2014 car would be to incorporate the Mondeo's hatch back and bustle tail.
I think that change would be enough to differentiate a new Falcon from being just another big sedan..

Survivability is about reinvention, why people liked big cars in the first place and the how and why they lost their standing/ appeal..
Catch the public's imagination in a large vehicle that offers more than what a sedan with a boot can and you have a chance..

[Fordman]

A large portion of people here will choose "Retain the Falcon platform for as long as possible and do whatever refreshes the budget allows."

It depends how you think about it. Most people are here because they love ford and the falcon and thats why they vote for it. Also we are australian and support local manufacturing.

The people ultimatly making the decisions are business people.

If I look at it from a business perspective it really depress's me to say the falcon is probably in a bit of trouble. Perhaps I would keep it as a niche model for enthusiasts, and push ecoboost 4cyl sales to fleet, if demand is even there?

But the blue blood quickly flows and I have a whole heap of justifications for keeping it because I love the falcon and australian built fordds.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by Fordman

A large portion of people here will choose "Retain the Falcon platform for as long as possible and do whatever refreshes the budget allows."

.

Yep agree .... as long as it doesn't impact on quality and features though.

Would hate to see the Falcon just survive and limp along as a lame duck against its competitors. It needs to be as good as or better than the rest and when it isn't, then its time to move on ..... Australian built or not unfortunately.

[Falcman0o7]

Do a survey and get the public's opinion to what they would like in a car ( falcon )
And give them it!

[Gadgetman]

Originally Posted by Falcman0o7

Do a survey and get the public's opinion to what they would like in a car ( falcon )
And give them it!

How about keyless go. As in smart start that's been in a mondeo for 6 years, focus for 4 years. Hope the 14 has that.

[Gadgetman]

Originally Posted by jpd80

With the greatest of respect, you are basing your perceptions on today's Falcon, not what's coming in 2014.

The only major change I would wish FoA to make to the 2014 car would be to incorporate the Mondeo's hatch back and bustle tail.
I think that change would be enough to differentiate a new Falcon from being just another big sedan..

Survivability is about reinvention, why people liked big cars in the first place and the how and why they lost their standing/ appeal..
Catch the public's imagination in a large vehicle that offers more than what a sedan with a boot can and you have a chance..

Appreciate everything you're saying here and some very good points.
The unfortunate scenario is that the investment required (including Federal and state funds) is just not enought brass to build a competitively priced vehicle in australia. Sad but true.

[dallasv8]

i would market the current products more.Ford have some kick *** products but advertising needs to be ramped up to showcase them more.i have way to many ideas on advertising to type it here.
make sure any car shows,supercar meets,etc etc have a good stock of Fords on show.deck a few out with after market wheels and crap to show the potential.
even get a few Rangers on display at rodeos etc.make sure some are decked out with bull bars, tyres and things like that.even offer package deals like mazda do with bill bars,uhf,wheels and tyres etc.
id bang a crate v8 in from the US to get us a cheap xr8 to compete with the ss.
i would offer manuals as a special order on models that come in auto only.
i would try to get the mustang and falcon on the same platform.one reason is so that the mustang could be bought in as an FPV or utilise some mustang design into a falcon coupe.
possibly run a factory team in production car racing.
possibly look at 5 year 150 000km warrantys.
im sure ive subjected everyone to my poor typing but you get the drift.

[Resurrection]

Option 2 for me. Go down fighting I say.

[vztrt]

I'd try and get the wagon back as a fleet hack only. Keep it as the BFIII and do mechanical/emissions upgrade with bluetooth in it. I would look at getting this wagon back as a taxi pack as well as get Telstra on board and try recapture that market. I also know of other companies that would like the Falcon wagon again as it was a good workhorse.

I would wanna try to get a RTV style ute (well the minimum would be a jacked up version) and if its not like the RTV of old then I would just badge it as a tradesman.

I would also explore export opportunities.

If all this cannot be done then I would be fighting for Ranger and Everest to be built here and if there is room a global large car. The reason I have said Everest instead of Terry is because if Falcon goes so will Terri and it would be more cost effective to build Everest on the same line.

[JG34JA]

Some great ideas from many angles here.

I'd keep it indigenous for as long as I could: every time a new Falcon decision has been made, for cars released 1972, 1979, 1988, 1998 and probably 2008 too, the decision to be replaced by a foreign Ford has been weighed and dismissed. With current volumes in a multi-fragmented market, it's a decision to continue to produce the current one and not make a new one.

I'd say bin Mondeo as well (next to no impact despite quality, plagued with supply issues), but that negates the next model, which may be a cracker. As it is, it sits uncomfortably between Falcon and Focus, but at least offers a wagon and diesel.

If we are keeping Falcon, what extra can we add in appeal? How about long options lists? The global parts bin may help this. The ability to individualise/custom build cars from exciting options. More practicality (wagon)? It's a full size car, why not use that full width with more flexible seat choices - there hasn't been a 6 seater for a decade. Country packs, tow packs. Utes with 'Outback' pack if diesel RTV's are beyond development cost. And of course, find ways to get the message out. Remember 'Going Ford is the Going Thing'? How about 'We've Got Your New Car On Ice'? Or more recently, 'Can't get Enough of This'.

Choosing to manufacture domestically might be well beyond product planning, however. If costs of doing business continue to increase just as the AUD does, all this might be academic.

[In Focus]

Well, if I were running this as a businessman, the only decision that makes sense is to go importer only. This immediately cuts out your biggest expense, high local wages.

If I wanted to retain Falcon, however, it would require a serious next update, not just new taillights and a couple of extra toys. Price it in the mid 30's, drop the I6, and go with Ecoboost, LPI and diesel (if it could be done). And make sure it qualifies for all of the "green" and "fleet" sales.

I don't think you can shrink it (otherwise people might as well buy a Focus etc for significantly less), but find a way of making it a hatchback and/or lose some kilos to improve fuel efficiency.

Then ADVERTISE it, and do it properly by going the man on the opposition. Why Ford never promoted Ecoboost Falcon as using the same, or less, fuel than a Mazda 3 automatic I'll never know.

It almost seemed like a concession that it wouldn't sell, and "Hey, you can't say we didn't give it a crack."

[ryeman]

How much time is left for the Mondeo badge in Oz?
2016 with the Falcon decision is my guess if not before. Fusion fits, Modeo doesn't .

[XWGT]

I think the key for Ford is differentiation.

The ability to break the long hled prejudice view of low tech dinosaurs that go hand in hand with Commodore. They need to break this relationship.

New Falcon - AWD, slightly smaller, high tech, high efficiency, high class finish. Break the realtionship and perceptions with Commodore as much as possible.

Now this car may already be avaialble on the Ford global platform, it may not. Or perhaps it can be bought together via the parts bin and a chassis in stock. No idea really but Falcon MUST lose its current image and prejudices.

Build Ranger here with this new Falcon model and import as many Focus and Fiestas as they can. Stock pile the buggers if they have to but a customer must NOT be allowed to walk out the door as there is not a car in stock for them. The is the worst type of lost business loss!

[Gadgetman]

Then ADVERTISE it, and do it properly by going the man on the opposition. Why Ford never promoted Ecoboost Falcon as using the same, or less, fuel than a Mazda 3 automatic I'll never know.

It almost seemed like a concession that it wouldn't sell, and "Hey, you can't say we didn't give it a crack."

Best couple of paragraphs I've read on this forums for a long time. Its all about perception. People dont believe a falcon ecoboost is less thirsty than a 2 litre 5 speed auto mazda 3. Why should they know or believe it. No one has bothered to tell.

[ryeman]

There seems to be a gentlemen s agreement to not mention the competition in advertising as opposed to the US.....or at least there's less of it, as if its distasteful?!

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Gadgetman

Appreciate everything you're saying here and some very good points.
The unfortunate scenario is that the investment required (including Federal and state funds) is just not enought brass to build a competitively priced vehicle in australia. Sad but true.

How so?
It's only going to cost Ford $50 million to upgrade Falcon for another two years production,
add on another $20 million for 2016 emissions and there's four years production all up.
Now multiply that by two and you have Falcon and Territory for four years costing $140 million
and the revenue from four years sales is likely to be between $5.5 billion and $6 Billion.

Four more years for two products for less than $200 million tip in, you couldn't do RHD Global replacements for that...