WA Hoon Laws - VF HSV permanently confiscated and to be auctioned off

[xxx000]

I think we may have a few on here who consider themselves 'hoons', believe in their eyes that that type of behaviour is o.k. and so are dead against this legislation.

Most/many of the instances that result in hoon offences are not just witnessed by police but recorded on video for courts to see.
This talk of accidental wheelspin resulting in innocent drivers suffering vehicle impoundment and huge fines is nonsense and simply a fear campaign by those who this legislation is targeted at

[XP6]

Lucky for that holden its not in SA... it'd end up a 1.7T cube of metal and plastic!

[Trump]

Originally Posted by xxx000

I think we may have a few on here who consider themselves 'hoons', believe in their eyes that that type of behaviour is o.k. and so are dead against this legislation.

Most/many of the instances that result in hoon offences are not just witnessed by police but recorded on video for courts to see.
This talk of accidental wheelspin resulting in innocent drivers suffering vehicle impoundment and huge fines is nonsense and simply a fear campaign by those who this legislation is targeted at

It isn't govco's job to be engaged in social programming via legislation. It's job is to provide the bare essentials and nothing else. Somewhere along the line in the course of history, they decided that they were the arbiters of what was best for society and began taking on functions that would have drawn widespread condemnation from the electorate in days gone by.

Speeding beyond the posted speed limits by a sizeable margin aside, I know of several people personally who have had their cars confiscated for incidental loss of traction. My uncle was one of them. About two years before he passed away, he was driving my old 3 series BMW around Epping and in the rain, the rear end of the car stepped out momentarily. As it happened, plod (one particular senior constable who has a reputation in the northen suburbs) was behind him and half an hour later, the car was on the back of a tow truck. He was charged with dangerous driving, however the magistrate threw the case out and ordered the retrieval and impound fees refunded with costs. Blind Freddie could have seen this was not a hoon plying his trade and the magistrate ruled accordingly.

[Nova 8]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

...however the magistrate threw the case out and ordered the retrieval and impound fees refunded with costs. Blind Freddie could have seen this was not a hoon plying his trade and the magistrate ruled accordingly.

Good to hear of judges doing their job correctly and not following the whines of parliament. Judges make the laws with understanding of our rights and the laws given to us by the constitution. Politicians make legislation as a means to influence the public to get votes, constitutional or not.

[Nova 8]

Originally Posted by xxx000

I think we may have a few on here who consider themselves 'hoons', believe in their eyes that that type of behaviour is o.k. and so are dead against this legislation.

Most/many of the instances that result in hoon offences are not just witnessed by police but recorded on video for courts to see.
This talk of accidental wheelspin resulting in innocent drivers suffering vehicle impoundment and huge fines is nonsense and simply a fear campaign by those who this legislation is targeted at

I don't see myself as a hoon nor do I support those who do the hooning, I see people wheaving in and out of traffic dangerously and hope they get caught. The issue I have is the government thinking they are there to rule us and to impeach on our rights and give police powers they are not entitled to. We have the right to a fair trail and prosecution but boon laws take that away by forcing judges to act according to the desires of police.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by SCUD

Just because you don't believe the punishment fits the crime, doesn't trigger a thought in your head that it should then be okay to go and commit it.

Just because I can think he's an idiot for doing what he did, doesn't mean I think he deserved the penalty.

[aussiblue]

Good to hear of judges doing their job correctly and not following the whines of parliament. Judges make the laws with understanding of our rights and the laws given to us by the constitution. Politicians make legislation as a means to influence the public to get votes, constitutional or not.

Judges do not make laws; they are made by Parliament and drafted by State Solicitor under instruction from the relevant Department and Ministers. Judges impose sentences in accordance with legislation and any discretion that the legislation may allow them. Some interpretations of the law in the higher courts by judges may create legal precedence but they don't make laws as such.

impeach on our rights

Do you mean "infringe on our rights"? Impeach on our rights makes no sense. Can you explain what you mean please? At the end of the day impounding or selling cars is just and extension of existing police powers to issue infringements that result in demerit points, fines or loss of licence and if you think you are innocent you still have access to the court system.

[tut0r]

Hoon laws needed to come in, or at least something similar. Actual hoons and by that I mean the ones who know they are breaking the law but don't give two ***** deserve what they get. Unfortunately like said previously there are those of us that will get targeted and fall under the blanket of hoon for modding our cars. Awareness to the general public of the differences between a hoon and an enthusiast are key!

It doesn't help being young either, especially if you have P plates, mind you I think most of the stupid **** any of us have done would of been around that time. I will never understand traffic weaving, granted I was a culprit when I was younger but not to the extreme of cutting others off. I now see others doing it and I end up pulling up next to them anyways, choice in lane and reading the traffic is better than weaving in and out like a ********.

[GasoLane]

The whole point is, is that it's a law.

Like the law where you sign a contract with a Bank to borrow money for your house.

You don't pay the Bank, they take your house.
They don't care what your reason/excuse is for not paying them. You break the law (contract) you lose your house.

[zilo]

180 is quick on public roads.

The punishment should be more than simple confiscation.

Avis rental cars told us not to exceed 160km/h as this would legally constitute attempted manslaughter in the State of California and not just a speeding ticket....automatic remand in jail until the district court judge visited every few weeks.

That was scarey....had to wait till over the state line to open the Corvette up.

[aussiblue]

180 is quick on public roads.

Especially noting he had 4 passengers and, while a straight road (with one lane in each direction) it is one that had a lot 18 wheeler traffic. Have a look on Google Earth; most street views of Great Northern Highway Port Hedland will nearly always show at least one prime mover in the oncoming lane.

[aussiblue]

There is also some scene setting history in Port Hedland http://www.pilbarayourvoice.com.au/issues/comment/289

[icecold84]

I agree with comagutsa, I also don't agree with the hoon law.. Do a survey on what cars have been in accidents and I'll be putting money that they are either been drinking or there car is old and not well maintained, people that invest so much money in cars like ourselves don't want to crash them but happy to test it's limit if safe to do so.. Port headland really...? Hoon laws ridiculous IMO, and no I'm not under 30 years of age...

[aussiblue]

I was discussing this with friends and they said it had been reported that the four passengers were unwilling participants in the speeding; I can't find anything on the Internet reports that say this. Anyone else seen anything that supports this? Apparently last time he was caught he had almost hit a couple of cyclist (and the reports confirm this)so it sounds like he has sort of brought it on himself.

At 62 I guess I am an old fart. I have mixed feelings about the hoon laws; I think it should be about if the driving is dangerous and/or disturbing the peace. A minor loss of traction or a burnout late at night in the backstreets of an empty industrial estate is probably not risking hurting anyone but themselves and a caution or warning should suffice. But if people are drag racing in built up areas etc where they are endangering lives and or keeping people awake they have it coming. Yes; while the stats show that hoons are a minor component of fatal accidents, and drugged and drunk drivers are a significant component, there is nothing that relates to age or the state of maintenance of a vehicle except that your survival likelihood is off course greater in newer model car.

[aussiblue]

And some of these have nice cars but are also selfish idiots...

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/...board-cameras/

the guy shown 3:58 minutes going into oncoming traffic is a car enthusiast, repeat offender and hoon that was jailed and lost his licence for life. Don't tell me he didn't deserve it.

[Grippy]

It's great to see the HSV being sold and not crushed, at least the $30,000 odd it will sell for will go to good use.

[Pepscobra]

All you guys complaining about the 'harshness' of the hoon laws seem to be forgetting that you've got three chances before anything drastic.
First time: ok, maybe came across a cop having a bad day. Go home, have a think about it and be careful in the future.
Second time: could be something I'm doing wrong??
Third time: you're an idiot and better for everyone if you're off the road for good for a while.

Just last night, around 9pm, at the back of our suburb somewhere was someone doing a massive burnout. Went on for ages. Don't tell me that's acceptable behaviour.

[Trevor 57]

Fantastic move WA Government, he has proven he doesn't deserve to be on the road, this is his 3rd offence, not his first, he is obviously a slow learner, if they catch him driving again then he needs to be jailed


I spent 13 years as a volunteer extracting bodies (living and dead) from car smashes

[SB076]

Originally Posted by zilo

180 is quick on public roads

180 is quick, but I presume you went faster in the vette?

I have driven at greater speeds (200+) with passengers and found it a safe means of transport. But its not for everyone and also don't think the majority of Australians or Australian roads are ready (I wish they were) Given the size of the country etc it makes sense to be able to do over 110k's but that is a separate argument.

In this instance the laws the law and the guy had previous strikes (warnings) and still thought it was a good idea to do 180ks, so he has bought this on himself.

[Trump]

Originally Posted by Pepscobra

All you guys complaining about the 'harshness' of the hoon laws seem to be forgetting that you've got three chances before anything drastic.
First time: ok, maybe came across a cop having a bad day. Go home, have a think about it and be careful in the future.
Second time: could be something I'm doing wrong??
Third time: you're an idiot and better for everyone if you're off the road for good for a while.

Just last night, around 9pm, at the back of our suburb somewhere was someone doing a massive burnout. Went on for ages. Don't tell me that's acceptable behaviour.

You make an interesting point Mr Cobra, however there is no way in hell that car confiscation is legal/lawful/other. It is out and out theft and should be treated as such. There is no actual crime that could be used to justify the theft of one's car. One's ownership of property is absolute and sacrosanct and nothing can change that, not even the committal of the most heinous of criminal acts.

In any case, taking someone's car won't change behaviours. Within a week they will have access to another car by whatever means and everything is back to square one.

[STINKY NINJA]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

You make an interesting point Mr Cobra, however there is no way in hell that car confiscation is legal/lawful/other. It is out and out theft and should be treated as such. There is no actual crime that could be used to justify the theft of one's car. One's ownership of property is absolute and sacrosanct and nothing can change that, not even the committal of the most heinous of criminal acts.

In any case, taking someone's car won't change behaviours. Within a week they will have access to another car by whatever means and everything is back to square one.

Whether you are a drug dealer or hoon if you break cetain laws your property will be seized and auctioned off to raise government funds,its stated in the law clearly so therefore it is not theft!
Hoon says to his insurance company"please help me,i got caught doin 180kph and the cops stole my car" bahahahaha
Its not intended to change behaviour at all, its meant to hit people in the hip pocket...Plain and simple!
Theft lol!

[Trump]

Originally Posted by STINKY NINJA

Whether you are a drug dealer or hoon if you break cetain laws your property will be seized and auctioned off to raise government funds,its stated in the law clearly so therefore it is not theft!
Hoon says to his insurance company"please help me,i got caught doin 180kph and the cops stole my car" bahahahaha
Its not intended to change behaviour at all, its meant to hit people in the hip pocket...Plain and simple!
Theft lol!

Having something codified/legislated doesn't make it just. Theft is theft, irrespective if it has the sanction of govco.

[nuthin' fancy]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

You make an interesting point Mr Cobra, however there is no way in hell that car confiscation is legal/lawful/other. It is out and out theft and should be treated as such. There is no actual crime that could be used to justify the theft of one's car. One's ownership of property is absolute and sacrosanct and nothing can change that, not even the committal of the most heinous of criminal acts.

In any case, taking someone's car won't change behaviours. Within a week they will have access to another car by whatever means and everything is back to square one.

In which universe?

Laws state what is not permitted and the penalty for not complying.

Legal and transparent.

[STINKY NINJA]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

Having something codified/legislated doesn't make it just. Theft is theft, irrespective if it has the sanction of govco.

It doesnt need to be just or even fair, its the law,sook about it all you want,it wont change the fact lol
Theft my ****...

[Trump]

Originally Posted by nuthin' fancy

In which universe?

Laws state what is not permitted and the penalty for not complying.

Legal and transparent.

A law/legal instrument is invalid if it violates another pre-existing law/legal instrument. As impoundment/confiscation is the forcible taking of one's property without permission (which is the definition of theft), any impoundment laws are unlawful/illegal.

The problem is, no one within the legal system would challenge the hoon legislation. Not even the more renowned traffic lawyers would touch it.

Originally Posted by STINKY NINJA

It doesnt need to be just or even fair, its the law,sook about it all you want,it wont change the fact lol
Theft my ****...

Govco depends on this attitude prevailing across the electorate. Those that matter within the bureaucratic machine know full well that a critical mass of people who see through the bovine excrement can shut down their entire operation.

[Pepscobra]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

...Those that matter within the bureaucratic machine know full well that a critical mass of people who see through the bovine excrement can shut down their entire operation.

I dont believe you are correct, but this is where your arguement fails anyways... the majority of Society is in favour of the Hoon law. We're not talking about the Carbon Tax here, this is an anti-social issue that is being addressed by the Law Makers/Enforcers in a manner they believe fair and just.

For anyone who doesnt agree with the Hoon Laws, its plain and simple, drive sensibly and obey the road laws and you'll be fine.

[Trump]

Originally Posted by Pepscobra

I dont believe you are correct, but this is where your arguement fails anyways... the majority of Society is in favour of the Hoon law. We're not talking about the Carbon Tax here, this is an anti-social issue that is being addressed by the Law Makers/Enforcers in a manner they believe fair and just.

For anyone who doesnt agree with the Hoon Laws, its plain and simple, drive sensibly and obey the road laws and you'll be fine.

The majority of society... was there a referendum or other direct vote where 7.5 million Australians of voting age agreed to "yes, please take our cars when we're naughty" that I missed?

[xxx000]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

A law/legal instrument is invalid if it violates another pre-existing law/legal instrument. As impoundment/confiscation is the forcible taking of one's property without permission (which is the definition of theft), any impoundment laws are unlawful/illegal.

The problem is, no one within the legal system would challenge the hoon legislation. Not even the more renowned traffic lawyers would touch it.



Govco depends on this attitude prevailing across the electorate. Those that matter within the bureaucratic machine know full well that a critical mass of people who see through the bovine excrement can shut down their entire operation.

Seems like this is a high priority issue for you

I therefore feel very sorry for you if you can't understand what the term anti social refers to in terms of driving behaviour.

Perhaps, just perhaps, you have lost perspective and your own style/manner of driving is inconsiderate of others and you aren't seeing the big picture?: most drivers care about their own lives and the lives of others enough to not drive at outrageous speeds relative to others on a stretch of road.
A key factor in hoon type behaviour is that the offender is in their own little world oblivious to the fact that they are putting themselves and others at greatly increased risk of injury or death.

[Trump]

It isn't a high priority issue for me mate, I'm calling it out for what it is, legalised theft.
There are better ways of improving driver behaviour than committing acts of petty larceny.

Perspective... I take the train to work now as a result of the deteriorating level of driver skill and the threat they pose to the few left that are attentive and drive to the conditions and to their abilities. I value my life enough to keep clear from the rolling hazard the daily grind has become.

[Pub247]

Do repeat drink driver get their cars confiscated. I find it unreasonable that penalties for drink drivers are less harsh than so called "hoons"