New Mustang supercar breaks cover

[b0son]

Originally Posted by FTE217

and don't nascars look even more woeful, not a good sample.

at least the front end is instantly recognisable as Mustang. I don't know what car the Supercar is supposed to be, because it's definitely no pony

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

Heres the look of a NASCAR Mustang
https://autoweek.com/article/monster...rgy-cup-series

image
Sorry I cant post pictures anymore,

[EDIT=Raptor, yes you can]

Oh dear .......

That is terrible

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by mitch

No personel attack Bent
just my take on the discussion from a number of threads


When I look at those two pictures, if I follow the white panel sticker all the way down the front guard on the supercars render, it looks like nearly the same angle/distance to the headlight on the cammoed car.

Im thinking the cammo job is doing what its supposed to do. Hiding the real car in plain view

All that suggests is that the render is not as removed from the real thing as what they've ended up with.
Its a subtle step away and the racecar is a further step away again.

Its a flattering angle to begin with and doesnt give a very good perspective of the rise in the roofline and if you look at the rear wing on both you can see the render is much shorter in the endplate than the actual racecar.

Hey, if it wins races good luck to them, but its a hideous looking thing the result of trying to make it out of something its not and the very reason Holden teams canned the Camaro.

[Syndrome]

Why don't they just race real Mustangs and Camaros?

[Guzz226]

COTF and controlled chassis

[blueoval]

You would have thought that with COTF chassis and cgi/cad designing, they could have mocked up the panels on the computer well before fabrication to make sure things were going to look right.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by Raptor

I wonder what a dual cab Ranger would look like adapted to the control chassis.

At least it has the high roof to start with and people actually buy them.

[EDIT]
Here's one from SpeedCafe back in 2014 (It's nothing like the racing diseasals we ending up with either)

image






.

That could be what a 2019 ford lightning looks like!

[GT450]

Geez you're a hard bunch to please sometimes, always sticking the boot into the brand you supposedly follow at every opportunity. I's a controlled chassis and they did their best to fit the semblance of a mustang body shell over it. Have a look at a Nascar and tell me how close that is to a mustang , not very close but it conforms to their rules and Ford signed off on it.
If the geniuses amongst you can do any better, within the rules, then you're wasting your time doing whatever you do Ford Performance Division needs you forthwith. Some of their brightest engineers have collaborated on this car and i for one think they have done a great job. Don't you think they would have copied the road car if the rules allowed ? but they don't so get over it and enjoy what I hope is going to be like the original trans ams .... a very successful race car.
GT450

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by asagaai

Its not a Mustang.

Not a Mustang body or coyote engine. Is a purpose designed body kit made to fit control chassis with control v8 race engine, aero tuned to win races.

Been massaged to fake and attempt to look like a "Mustang"- for commercial reasons, which it is not.

Just like every other car that races in Supercars. They also had to slice and dice the ZB, and swap the engine and driveline out to a configuration it was never manufactured with.

The whole series is a sham. They are purpose built race cars that share basically nothing with the road cars.

[GTP534]

Instantly recognisable as a Mustang to me! I think it looks great and will be even better when it rolls out in the liveries next year.

[roddy1960]

Originally Posted by Fordman1

Oh dear .......

That is terrible

It is .. Makes the Supercars version look great actually And the headlights on the Aussie one work too unlike these neanderthals ..I hate Nascars with a passion ..

[xeeclipse]

Originally Posted by roddy1960

It is .. Makes the Supercars version look great actually And the headlights on the Aussie one work too unlike these neanderthals ..I hate Nascars with a passion ..

Don't tell me that you also resent the 900hp sitting under the hood?? Kind of explains why the budget could only allow for a VB carton body..

[Sabantien]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

Why don't they just race real Mustangs and Camaros?

Probably because they stopped racing production cars in the 1980s.

[Adamz Ghia]

Really it isn’t Fords fault at all with regards to how it looks (which to me is fine), it’s Supercars. They knew Falcon and the Aussie Commodore were on the way out, they knew the most likely replacements would be two door coupes and they still didn’t design the rules to fit this scenario. I’m betting there is no way Nissan would have raced Altimas if the rules were biased, or at least allowed for, 2 door coupes. Probably Mercedes too would have raced a 2 door rather than the E Class.

So I don’t know why so many here are directing their issues towards Ford when Ford have to work within rules and regulations set by the governing body.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

Really it isn’t Fords fault at all with regards to how it looks (which to me is fine), it’s Supercars. They knew Falcon and the Aussie Commodore were on the way out, they knew the most likely replacements would be two door coupes and they still didn’t design the rules to fit this scenario. I’m betting there is no way Nissan would have raced Altimas if the rules were biased, or at least allowed for, 2 door coupes. Probably Mercedes too would have raced a 2 door rather than the E Class.

So I don’t know why so many here are directing their issues towards Ford when Ford have to work within rules and regulations set by the governing body.

But they arent, the new commodore and Altima are 4 door sedans, its only Ford who've chosen to put a 2 door coupe body on a 4 door sedan derived control chassis, they could have run Mondeo body's, the Altima is not Nissans motorsport hero, its just the body used to promote the brand in the local catagory.
There's 3 manufacteres in the series, why would they change the rules to suit 1/3rd of them, Holden looked at the Camaro and made the correct decision to leave it off the table under current regulations.

The way i see it Ford had 3 choices, continue with the FGX in the short term and lobby for change to the chassis design, run the Mondeo in the short term and lobby for change to the chassis design or run a visually compromised Mustang.

[Adamz Ghia]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

But they arent, the new commodore and Altima are 4 door sedans, its only Ford who've chosen to put a 2 door coupe body on a 4 door sedan derived control chassis, they could have run Mondeo body's, the Altima is not Nissans motorsport hero, its just the body used to promote the brand in the local catagory.
There's 3 manufacteres in the series, why would they change the rules to suit 1/3rd of them, Holden looked at the Camaro and made the correct decision to leave it off the table under current regulations.

The way i see it Ford had 3 choices, continue with the FGX in the short term and lobby for change to the chassis design, run the Mondeo in the short term and lobby for change to the chassis design or run a visually compromised Mustang.

Why would they run Mondeo bodies when it isn’t available with a V8 or any performance engine for that matter, and sells sweet fa every month? Why would they continue to run Falcons when it has been dead three years by the end of next season?

And you misread what I said. If the rules allowed for coupes in the first place, Holden would have run the Camaro, Nissan would have run either the 370Z or GT-R, Mercedes might have run one of their coupes and Ford would have run a more visually appealing ( to some) Mustang.

Ford announced Falcon was dead in 2013, the writing was on the wall for the Commodore after that. Supercars had 4 years to come up with something but didn’t.

Supercars stuffed up. Not Ford.

[jpd80]

This is why I don't watch V8 Supercars anymore, it's a contrived racing formula
a counterfeit of what used to be...

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by Sabantien

Probably because they stopped racing production cars in the 1980s.

Who stopped?

Production car racing never stopped.

[Nikked]

Supercars didnt really think the COTF chassis through properly, while it eorked to start off with, it isn't future proof. Their should have been a chassis change when the Gen2 COTF ruels were implemented in 2016 allowing at least a change in the rear hoop height and placememt, as part of the Gen2 intentions was to allow coupes to race.

The chassis isnt due to be changed until 2022...

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

Why would they run Mondeo bodies when it isn’t available with a V8 or any performance engine for that matter, and sells sweet fa every month? Why would they continue to run Falcons when it has been dead three years by the end of next season?

And you misread what I said. If the rules allowed for coupes in the first place, Holden would have run the Camaro, Nissan would have run either the 370Z or GT-R, Mercedes might have run one of their coupes and Ford would have run a more visually appealing ( to some) Mustang.

Ford announced Falcon was dead in 2013, the writing was on the wall for the Commodore after that. Supercars had 4 years to come up with something but didn’t.

Supercars stuffed up. Not Ford.

Because its no longer model specific, its about brand marketing, when frosty won the 2015 flag people didnt rush out to buy Falcons and they wont rush out to buy Mustang if it dominates next year, the people who follow the series know its not the real thing, they have allegiances to the brand and thats what Supercars wants and has done for probably a decade.

No i didnt misread what you wrote at all, you're trying to say Supercars should have considered 1/3rd of its brand participants and another brand which would conflict with its biggest drawcard when forward planning
The current chassis suits 3/4 of the field, its perfectly adequate for its current purpose, the only issue lies with a bit player whose trying to shoehorn a sedan specific control chassis into a coupe's proportions.

Australias premier racing catagory did away with coupe racing 26years ago, should it return, probably, will it return, probably, should it be now because one brand doesnt offer a 4 door car it wants to utilise for brand marketing, no.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

Why would they run Mondeo bodies when it isn’t available with a V8 or any performance engine for that matter, and sells sweet fa every month? Why would they continue to run Falcons when it has been dead three years by the end of next season?

And you misread what I said. If the rules allowed for coupes in the first place, Holden would have run the Camaro, Nissan would have run either the 370Z or GT-R, Mercedes might have run one of their coupes and Ford would have run a more visually appealing ( to some) Mustang.

Ford announced Falcon was dead in 2013, the writing was on the wall for the Commodore after that. Supercars had 4 years to come up with something but didn’t.

Supercars stuffed up. Not Ford.

Good post AG,

That rubbish about Holden Considering and canning Camaro as an option is made up BS by the usual BS’ers.

Holden only EVER considered Commodore ( they wanted to use the legacy they had with their racing history and the Commodore name).

The Camaro is not a Holden branded vehicle - surprise !!!

In fact they wanted to run a Turbo V6 Commodore until they found it would cost too much, and required some actual R&D (not just a cut and shut with what they were already running - as it turned out).

Having said that, I enjoyed Group A and its variety.

This Supercar stuff is boring and the Mustang looks ugly in that camo ( I hope it looks better in its real livery’s).

[Nikked]

Yep, Holden had no interest in the Camaro, it wanted to marketvthe Commodore. Not to mention that Holden dont sell the camaro...and was never going to come here if it wasn't for HSV.

[4stanger]

Originally Posted by Fordman1

Good post AG,

That rubbish about Holden Considering and canning Camaro as an option is made up BS by the usual BS’ers.

Holden only EVER considered Commodore ( they wanted to use the legacy they had with their racing history and the Commodore name).

The Camaro is not a Holden branded vehicle - surprise !!!

In fact they wanted to run a Turbo V6 Commodore until they found it would cost too much, and required some actual R&D (not just a cut and shut with what they were already running - as it turned out).

Having said that, I enjoyed Group A and its variety.

This Supercar stuff is boring and the Mustang looks ugly in that camo ( I hope it looks better in its real livery’s).

GT3 & GT4 categories have a variety of manufacturers for racing.
There is lots of manufacturers making "current & relevant" models available, backing teams to race them and have good close entertaining races.

Does holden have a current & relevant model suitable for these categories?
No.

GT4 Mustang is the best looking of the current racing Mustangs, compared to the supercars & Nascar versions.

[xeeclipse]

Lets go back to where it all began....

When V8 supercars prevented ford from developing their own aero kit for the AU, had something to do with the parity regulations of the day??

We had a car which till now hasn't been matched by any ford product for it's aero efficiency, so efficient that the back end of the vehicle wasn't producing enough negative pressure to promote tail end traction at high speeds.

There was also some issue with the double wishbone front suspension causing the car to sprout wings but the frontal diffuser off the bombadore fixed that issue late in the AU's racing career.

The advent of the BA-VY was the beginning of the end, everyone was forced to use the same control spec double wishbone front end.

[Nikked]

Supercars didn't prevent for from developing the aerokit...quite the opposite, Ford opted to use their own design...later switching to the AVESCO spec bumper...

[Gothefalcon]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Supercars didn't prevent for from developing the aerokit...quite the opposite, Ford opted to use their own design...later switching to the AVESCO spec bumper...

And, from memory... it was quite early in the AU's supercar years, not late !?? 2000 I think ?

The rules around rear aero have changed a fair bit too. if I remember correctly, In the early satages the rear spoiler couldn't be wider or higher than the car, or protrude further back than the rearest most point !??
Now... they are hanging them way back off the rear of the car, so they can get into the best spot aero-wise, to enable all the different vehicle bodies to produce the same downforce at set speeds.

If memory serves... the Holden camp asked for twin wishbone front ends (something to do with suspension adjustments to improve mid-corner speeds to match Falcon) and siamese port heads (to match Falcon's top end power output).

All changes such as these are considered on merit and adjustments made under the "project blueprint" rationale, with a view to bringing all the marques closer together... leaving just the teams & driver's to race on more equal terms. The rules get modified further with each passing year and racecar generation, of course.

Does it even up the playing field ?... a fair bit. has it made for better racing ? Hmm... not so sure (for me) !?? Is it still our premier racing catagory ? Yep. Will I still chear on the Ford boys, now that Falcon has been replaced with a slightly wierd looking Mustang ? Absolutely !!

(BTW.. If any of the "facts" above are a bit wrong... happy to be corrected It was by memory... and I'm old now, so even my memory is wrong sometimes )

D

[roddy1960]

Originally Posted by jpd80

This is why I don't watch V8 Supercars anymore, it's a contrived racing formula
a counterfeit of what used to be...

By definition so is NASCAR then .

Two reasons why I'd want Supercars over NASCAR . Number one is because the racing is on dedicated tracks or street circuits that require turning both wheel locks and using serious braking skills as a weapon. Number two is because there is a rudimentary resemblance to actual cars unlike NASCAR. So, if Supercars is contrived what the heck does that make NASCAR . A lot more so I say .

Couldn't care less if the NASCAR engines are more powerful 900 hp xeeclipse ..So what . As for your suggestion of VB carton bodies ,same thing too . What about the ridiculous Funny Car looking NASCAR's with the stuck on fake headlights . Not the slightest hint of resembling a car other than a Ford ,Chevy , Toyota etc emblem .

Falcon was sold as a 4 door V8 , Mustang is sold as a 2 door V8 so even if we think that the Mustang isn't as authentic looking as the road car at least Ford are staying a tiny bit genuine with that configuration for V8 compatibility to the body shell depicted unlike ZB Commodore and Nissan Altima .

[au2000]

Just my opinion, once supercars introduced a combination which allowed a v8 Altima (remind me where I can buy one of those) they lost me,
The times have changed , absolutely, and with that I'd expect it to have returned to a semi super tourer style model where teams raced a modified and developed product, eg holden with it's v6 commodore and ford it's mondeo as a example,
I just find it hard to relate to racing these days tbh.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Fordman1

Good post AG,

That rubbish about Holden Considering and canning Camaro as an option is made up BS by the usual BS’ers.

Holden only EVER considered Commodore ( they wanted to use the legacy they had with their racing history and the Commodore name).

The Camaro is not a Holden branded vehicle - surprise !!!

In fact they wanted to run a Turbo V6 Commodore until they found it would cost too much, and required some actual R&D (not just a cut and shut with what they were already running - as it turned out).

Having said that, I enjoyed Group A and its variety.

This Supercar stuff is boring and the Mustang looks ugly in that camo ( I hope it looks better in its real livery’s).

https://www.supercars.com/news/champ...maro-supercar/

When i say Holden i refer to current Holden team/s

But you probably knew that.

[CoupeKing]

Originally Posted by roddy1960

By definition so is NASCAR then .

Two reasons why I'd want Supercars over NASCAR . Number one is because the racing is on dedicated tracks or street circuits that require turning both wheel locks and using serious braking skills as a weapon. Number two is because there is a rudimentary resemblance to actual cars unlike NASCAR. So, if Supercars is contrived what the heck does that make NASCAR . A lot more so I say .

Couldn't care less if the NASCAR engines are more powerful 900 hp xeeclipse ..So what . As for your suggestion of VB carton bodies ,same thing too . What about the ridiculous Funny Car looking NASCAR's with the stuck on fake headlights . Not the slightest hint of resembling a car other than a Ford ,Chevy , Toyota etc emblem .

Falcon was sold as a 4 door V8 , Mustang is sold as a 2 door V8 so even if we think that the Mustang isn't as authentic looking as the road car at least Ford are staying a tiny bit genuine with that configuration for V8 compatibility to the body shell depicted unlike ZB Commodore and Nissan Altima .

Another anti-American rant