UK riots..

[atec77]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

yobbos, pure and simple.

see the footage on aca (i think) of the two guys helping themselves to an injured guys belongings??? need a beating morons like that.

My cousin and her hubby live just outside London and travel into their shop daily , last couple of days they have lived in the shop which is very well protected being a repair business with metal window covers and an angry owner , the shock is apparent at the Police and government fail on this and if their opinion is anything to go by the lack of stopping pure thuggery will cause the government massive embarrassment and makes the police look very dull indeed . When I was there sometime back there were at times gangs of roaming sidewalk commandos running about who when enough force was applied would cower and run like the scum thay are , no idea what the answer is but it's no surprise this stuff is happening when the authorities cant or wont man up , down with political correctness and bring out the bats ?.
Lets see if tonights reporting is accurate for once on the telly
Can anyone say recent Sydney events ?

[MITCHAY]

Makes you wonder how well our police force could cope with this level of civil unrest.

I'd hope our government have considered this in light of what has happened in London though a different country, it could easily happen here

Later down the track you also got to ask whether insurance will cover the damage to which is more bad news for innocents.

I can't say anymore because it would violate the warnings already issued.

[blueoval]

Originally Posted by atec77

My cousin and her hubby live just outside London and travel into their shop daily , last couple of days they have lived in the shop which is very well protected being a repair business with metal window covers and an angry owner , the shock is apparent at the Police and government fail on this and if their opinion is anything to go by the lack of stopping pure thuggery will cause the government massive embarrassment and makes the police look very dull indeed . When I was there sometime back there were at times gangs of roaming sidewalk commandos running about who when enough force was applied would cower and run like the scum thay are , no idea what the answer is but it's no surprise this stuff is happening when the authorities cant or wont man up , down with political correctness and bring out the bats ?.
Lets see if tonights reporting is accurate for once on the telly
Can anyone say recent Sydney events ?

I agree with this point.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

Makes you wonder how well our police force could cope with this level of civil unrest.

I'd hope our government have considered this in light of what has happened in London though a different country, it could easily happen here

Later down the track you also got to ask whether insurance will cover the damage to which is more bad news for innocents.

I can't say anymore because it would violate the warnings already issued.

We have had some close calls, particularly in Sydney. Those events could have escalated further but I guess we are the lucky country, for now.

[IDT]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

2 Things... the army cant be used against its people (not unless its through an act of parliament) and the army is not trained in riot control and never will be.

Do you see the Syrian army using batons? or using tanks?

Two words. Northern Ireland

[pulpist]

People are realising they don't actually have to do as they are told, this is the consequence. Let's hope they get a grip on it before more people figure it out. The only control the state actually has hangs on the fact people believe they have control.

[Bucknaked]

I watch the pommie copper shows on Fox. Some of the people they come across, it's no surprise that they have little or no respect for the police. What I found surprising is that not all police carry firearms. Only specialist teams do. One police officer said in all the years he's been a police officer, he's never fired a gun. So he wasn't even sure how to hold the gun. Law Enforcement, and they have to rely on hand cuffs. I think the police in the UK are seen as nothing more than security guards.

[Jim Goose]

I think I mentioned this before... its not the militarys job to control rioting and nor are they trained to do so (Northern Ireland was a totally different situation).

The British Army (like the aussie one) can NOT be used against its own people unless an act of parliament occurs. The military is not trained to deal with rioters. (and imagine how well the people react when a government decides to use its own military against its own people?)

[Bucknaked]

I think it's time to open up a good old fashion "Can O' Whoop ***" That'll learn em

[Brent]

This is just so sad, such an indictment on society. Its so tragic on so many levels, its almost hard to grasp. That society has degenerated to point where people are brought up (kids ferchrisakes) in an environment where rioting is a great way to break the boredom of a directionless life, condoned and even encouraged by their parents. Where enclaves along ethnic lines with zero integration is standard issue. Where to steal and destroy private property is a right of passage, a badge of honour. Where total and utter disrespect of authority is as much an element of lifestyle as you and I may consider earning a living or taking the kids to school.....just the done thing.

The call to 'bring in the troops' is a natural reaction, and of course, a totally flawed one for reasons already well explained by others in this thread. On the flipside, how can anarchy be allowed to reign in a one proud capital, day in, day out, essentially unchallenged? How can the UK consider itself a sovereign nation when its citizens approach their 4th consecutive night, cowering in their homes whilst ratbags, vandals and theives run rampant, unchallenged through the streets? A government cannot, unambiguously cannot let this happen. It runs totally against all that a modern community holds dear to its heart. It cannot be allowed to persist.

No doubt when the smoke has cleared and the dust has settled, there'll be the usual inquiries and finger pointing, and essentially nothing will change. Political correctness will mean that the 'elephant in the room' with regard to racial and social integration will be sidestepped and excluded from rational debate. Inevitably, the apologetic left wingers will claim that the rioters are simply misunderstood and disadvantaged darlings who mean no harm. Conversely, the radical bigots will want for racial exclusions and neo-Nazi solutions.......and as usual, logic and open debate will be the first casualty.

Meanwhile here, in Australia, out politicians will leave the rose coloured glasses firmly planted on their faces, with the old "it'll never happen here" head-in-the-sand approach. In Cronulla there were warning signs. In parts of Melbourne there are warning signs. These will go unheeded by our leaders. Guaranteed.

Many lessons to be learned here. Hard lessons. Uncomfortable lessons. But how much real "learning" will there be. I wonder. Let's see.

Brent.

[Franco Cozzo]

Isn't UK one of the most "politically correct" nations in the world? A police force which only certain divisions carry weapons? Tensions between ethnic groups and the anglo's over recent years? That news corporation scandal, top police officers resigning all the sudden?

Writing is on the wall, people have had enough. There is only so much putting a piece of paper in a box, every four or so years, can do.

I don't agree with the looting, but people standing up against authority/government for constant poor action or lack of action, maybe.

This should be a wake up call.

[Jim Goose]

Police in England have been unarmed for a very long time... it has nothing to do with political correctness. And yes only certain Police are armed. (Heavily armed with MP5s mostly).

England has very little gun related crime and its never been necessary to have an armed Police force.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Police in England have been unarmed for a very long time... it has nothing to do with political correctness. And yes only certain Police are armed. (Heavily armed with MP5s mostly).

England has very little gun related crime and its never been necessary to have an armed Police force.

Whats the point of an unarmed police force? Its like having a friendly guard dog with no teeth. When I was in NZ, I also noticed police there had no weapons.

England has very little gun related crime, but I'm fairly sure that knife related crime over there is fairly decent.

Yes, I know political correctness has nothing to do with police not carrying weapons, but isn't political correctness about making everyone feel warm and fuzzy? If so why do you have segregated ethnic groups?

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Isn't UK one of the most "politically correct" nations in the world? A police force which only certain divisions carry weapons? Tensions between ethnic groups and the anglo's over recent years? That news corporation scandal, top police officers resigning all the sudden?

Writing is on the wall, people have had enough. There is only so much putting a piece of paper in a box, every four or so years, can do.

I don't agree with the looting, but people standing up against authority/government for constant poor action or lack of action, maybe.

This should be a wake up call.

Standing up for what you believe and showing support for beliefs is one thing ...... but I bet my bottom dollar that 98% involved in this would not even know why they are doing it other than it seems like a bit of drunken fun and nor would they have a belief in their head. They are not standing up to authority? They are rioting .... and a wake up call to who? Possibly that the police should be armed?

[buggerlugs]

Isn't half the problem technology ? The way the mob's seem to know where the police are and riot in other area's thanks to mobiles, facebook , twitter etc......

[Bossxr8]

Bored soccer hooligans that can't riot after games any more, and have moved on to anything they can. lol

I was talking to a mate at work today, he has an english wife, and he was explaining to me that in Australia you might have 2nd or 3rd generation misfits from lower class families, over there they might be 8th or 9th generation misfits, and crime and theft is all they know. Its bred into them.

The class based system means the lower class will always arc up against the so called upper class.

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Whats the point of an unarmed police force? Its like having a friendly guard dog with no teeth. When I was in NZ, I also noticed police there had no weapons.

England has very little gun related crime, but I'm fairly sure that knife related crime over there is fairly decent.

Yes, I know political correctness has nothing to do with police not carrying weapons, but isn't political correctness about making everyone feel warm and fuzzy? If so why do you have segregated ethnic groups?

And again the pommy Police force which doesnt carry weapons had nothing to do with political correctness... Even in the 19th centuary they didnt carry weapons, in WW2 they didnt carry weapons.. so again in case you missed it.. it had nothing to do with political correctness, they have been basically unarmed for a 100yrs.

So i dont get why you mention British Police and being PC in the same sentance.

Police in England wear a "knife" proof vest, carry mace, use batons.... didnt you watch "the bill"?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

Standing up for what you believe and showing support for beliefs is one thing ...... but I bet my bottom dollar that 98% involved in this would not even know why they are doing it other than it seems like a bit of drunken fun and nor would they have a belief in their head. They are not standing up to authority? They are rioting .... and a wake up call to who? Possibly that the police should be armed?

Wake up call to say that what the government and police force have been doing or not doing has to stop, it originally started off as a protest in front of a police station over a shooting, its just escalated to looting because some opportunistic people have seen an opportunity.

Its like around my area, everyone claims they have never done anything wrong in their lives and we have a very low crime rate, basically nothing happens except for the odd bit of hooning and someone playing loud music. But, if you break down and leave your car on the side of the road, it'll be stripped over night or have all the windows smashed and be turned on its roof.

Same thing if you have a "free" sign on something on the nature strip, no one will take it, but if you take the sign off it, you'll find it'll be gone because someone wants the thrill of doing something illegal and getting away with it.

Or you order a skip and someone puts their stuff in it.

Or they're doing roadworks and someone loads up their trailer with stones at night.

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

And again the pommy Police force which doesnt carry weapons had nothing to do with political correctness...

So i dont get why you mention British Police and being PC in the same sentance.

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Yes, I know political correctness has nothing to do with police not carrying weapons

I was more referring to how they do the whole political correctness act and how it supposedly makes people feel welcome, but they've still ended up in their situation they are now which they where trying to prevent (ethnic segregation).

You just have to look at recent history with tensions brewing and its not hard to see people have had enough.

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Whats the point of an unarmed police force? Its like having a friendly guard dog with no teeth. When I was in NZ, I also noticed police there had no weapons.

England has very little gun related crime, but I'm fairly sure that knife related crime over there is fairly decent.

Yes, I know political correctness has nothing to do with police not carrying weapons, but isn't political correctness about making everyone feel warm and fuzzy? If so why do you have segregated ethnic groups?

The theory is, or was, that by not arming the average copper, the average thief didnt feel the need to be tooled up. And it worked, the UK does not have the same level of gun related crime as other similar nations. But they also have heavily armed specialist units when shooters are involved.

People live where they live. They arent herded in to segregated groups. Just like here, people seem to flock to like communities. Many live in council housing which tends to be a large area densely populated with cheap housing. There are, or were I dont know now, plenty of such places in Melbourne, like flats at Carlton , Nth Melb, Kensington, Flemington and estates like at Broady and Sunshine. Footscray is a good example over a period of time has gone from being predominantly Enlish/Irish/Scot/3rd 4th gen Aussie, to Greek and Italian, to last I saw, Vietnamese. People flock to familiarity.


An event occurred, a man was killed, had a shady past, the circumstances of his death may be questionable, or it may be miscommunication. People protested and some other people sought to take advantage of it for their anti-social character and a heap of people just run with it out of boredom or maybe they want to taste anarchy.

In the meantime, law abiding citizens are bearing the brunt.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by buggerlugs

Isn't half the problem technology ? The way the mob's seem to know where the police are and riot in other area's thanks to mobiles, facebook , twitter etc......

When this was happening in Egypt they caught on quick and barred all internet and mobile service in trouble hot spots. Having said that, will the use of technology be one of the tools police use to track and arrest the trouble makers?

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

When this was happening in Egypt they caught on quick and barred all internet and mobile service in trouble hot spots. Having said that, will the use of technology be one of the tools police use to track and arrest the trouble makers?

You cant selectively switch people off, anyone, at least within a geographical area will also be shut off. These are the actions of despots and third world corrupt nations, not advance western democracies. Sure it might stop some of the guilty from communicating, but it also punishes the innocent.

Theres a fine line between tactics that may work and acceptable sacrifices.

[creative]

well it would appear the vigilanty element is starting to come to light. People are tired of waiting for the pollies and chiefs to make a decision and taking the law into there own hands..

glad I'm not there now!

[Road_Warrior]

One of the things I noticed during my time in London (just under a year) was that the anarchist "strain" if you want to call it that, was never far away. Hard to put my finger on, but little signs here and there (both literal and metaphorical) let you know that there was that element that always watched very closely the goings-on in society. I guess an "opportunity" like this has been a long time coming.

[bungarra]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

The British Army (like the aussie one) can NOT be used against its own people unless an act of parliament occurs. The military is not trained to deal with rioters. (and imagine how well the people react when a government decides to use its own military against its own people?)

Wrong on this point, the British and Australian Armies do have policies for if they are called into these situtions by their respective governments.

There is a stock pile of rubber bullets for Oz Army use and they are checked and counted regularly. Some of the military riot control rounds (about 5,000) are already in shipment, may already have arrived to WA for CHOGM.

America has the non use of army policy, that is why during riots, the national guard is used as they are classed as non regular forces. The US would use NorComm if a major issue arised and full military use was required for civil insurrection in the USA.

[Road_Warrior]

In fact, the Criminal Code of Western Australia contains specific provisions about using the military to suppress a riot.

[SteveJH]

If the military was prohibited from acting within Australian territory & against Australian Citizens, the CT forces would not be manned by the military and the Navy would not make a large portion of Border Patrol Command.

[IDT]

[QUOTE=bungarra]Wrong on this point, the British and Australian Armies do have policies for if they are called into these situtions by their respective governments.QUOTE]

I hope I am not saying anything wrong this time. But the fact is when I was in the Army, albeit 20 years ago we trained in riot control and managing civil unrest. As far as I am aware most Infantry units still do. DFACC or Defence Force Aid to the civil community is not just about filling sandbags in floods. We used these same skills in Somalia when food drops went haywire. Strangely enough many of the insructors were Brits. I doubt very much this has changed. The Military can and will assist if called in. Obviously they have specific use of force rules and are closely managed by the police. Many lessons were hard learned in Northern Ireland and other places. Thier SAS and other units are the best in the business in dealing with this stuff. All those years in civil conflict zones won't have been forgotten easily. I would not be surprised at all if the Military in some capacity is invloved already. Albeit providing direction to the police if not gathering intel on the street by Special forces guys slipping in amongst the rioters.

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by bungarra

Wrong on this point, the British and Australian Armies do have policies for if they are called into these situtions by their respective governments.

There is a stock pile of rubber bullets for Oz Army use and they are checked and counted regularly. Some of the military riot control rounds (about 5,000) are already in shipment, may already have arrived to WA for CHOGM.

America has the non use of army policy, that is why during riots, the national guard is used as they are classed as non regular forces. The US would use NorComm if a major issue arised and full military use was required for civil insurrection in the USA.

When you went to pukka you trained in riot responce?
Or when you went to your first posting you did more riot training?
PLEASE... seriously drop it. There is no rubber bullet stockpile or water cannons hidden away.

And again... The ARMY (pommie or Australian) cant be used against its citizens unless an act of parliament occurs.

The national guard in the USA are regular forces.. and a state of emergency/ marshall law needs to be declared before they can be used.

[geckoGT]

Lets get this thread back on topic with what is happening in the UK.

This is not a thread to discuss Australian Military policy.

So back on topic please or the thread lock will be deployed.

[gt4lyfe]

Oh yes the desperate youth, living in starvation & poverty... so why are they stealing Nikes and Plasmas instead of bags of food?