Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV impressions

[mik]

Actually talking about cabin quietness, electric cars don't have it all on their own, my old lexus is pretty quite , on occasions I have to give a rev to know if the motor is running .

[whynot]

Originally Posted by mik

Good write up whynot, if I might ask , what would be the cost difference between a territory and a the mitsu in outright purchase price? Everyone has different reasons for purchasing a vehicle, im just thinking from a purely cost perspective, do you think with all things taken into consideration, out right costs , long term maintenance would it be cheaper in the long run.

Hi Milk,

A PHEV Aspire AWD is currently listed $54,990 from the dealer. In terms of “fruit”, I think the closest vehicle is a Territory AWD Titanium, which is see currently listed around $53,985 drive away on carsales. For most people, I would say the financially safest option would be the Territory. It has a known resale value and reasonably straightforward to maintain once out of warranty. The Territory has some very endearing features; top of the list is that the Territory is a driver’s vehicle.

Rather than looking at it through the prism of a Mitsubishi verses a Ford, I would suggest taking a longer view and looking at the PHEV through the prism of petrol verses diesel verses PHEV. Here, I see some exciting technology.

A personal rant … there seems to be a section of society that absolutely hates cars, would ban automobiles if they had half a chance, and pushes public transport. One of the core arguments the anti-car brigade uses to make us motorists feel guilty is that cars burn fossil fuels. The PHEV punctures a big hole in that cars-are-bad argument. If it makes one feel good, the PHEV can be powered by renewable energy. The technology in the PHEV is a return to guilt-free motoring. A Territory PHEV would certainly float my boat.

[Crazy Dazz]

It is still nuts to me that they would use a petrol engine as a generator.
Diesels are MADE to run generators because of their incredible low-down torque. One of the big units I used to work on had a red-line of 900rpm, and a sweet-spot of 800rpm.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

Remember Ford were selling the most fuel efficient new car on the market just a couple of years ago.....the Fiesta ECOnetic.......and it sold 2 5ths of bugger all.

The ECOnetic was a bloody wasted opportunity by Ford. They had Australia's most economical car then decided to slug buyers near 10K over the base model it was based on. What was the 'Tech' to justify the premium? A diesel engine. Woopty doo.

Then, they decided to not offer an auto box to a market that just LOVES auto cars.

Stupid, stupid, stupid...

Had Ford played their cards right, they would have had bragging rights on several fronts. Seems the US like to use the phrase 'Best in class' or similar... shame we can't.

I currently drive an 2007 Fiat Punto diesel "Australia's most economical car available at the time". 1.25l - same output as the ECOnetic 1.6 donk. My 'combined' consumption is under 5L per 100 - on the freeway it achieves high 3's. 1100km to a tank on the freeway without issues, 750-800km combined.

If Ford had an ounce of brains they would see that they have the hardware NOW to release a sub 3L per 100 car - a new Fiesta Econetic using the same donk as the 1.5D in the ECOsport with a few tweaks here and there.

Price it right, give it the right warranty and don't charge stupid for grease and oil changes + include an auto box and the sales will come.

Cheers,

Jason

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

It is still nuts to me that they would use a petrol engine as a generator.
Diesels are MADE to run generators because of their incredible low-down torque. One of the big units I used to work on had a red-line of 900rpm, and a sweet-spot of 800rpm.

Was thinking the same thing... a diesel (or even LPG ((CNG!!)) powered genny would have made it more 'green' wouldn't it??

[whynot]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

Was thinking the same thing... a diesel (or even LPG ((CNG!!)) powered genny would have made it more 'green' wouldn't it??

Yeah … it is head scratching at first … but consider this. Yes, a diesel is more economical per gram of fuel, but significantly more expensive across whole of life. As it is, the first round of PHEV owners will not recover their capital costs and are just doing it for a nice warm fuzzy feeling. A diesel would just make it harder to afford one. Remember, that a PHEV could be going through as little as 300 litres of fuel in a year. We could be installing a $3000 diesel engine to save as little as 20 litres of fuel in difference between petrol and diesel engines.

[mik]

Originally Posted by whynot

Hi Milk,

A PHEV Aspire AWD is currently listed $54,990 from the dealer. In terms of “fruit”, I think the closest vehicle is a Territory AWD Titanium, which is see currently listed around $53,985 drive away on carsales. For most people, I would say the financially safest option would be the Territory. It has a known resale value and reasonably straightforward to maintain once out of warranty. The Territory has some very endearing features; top of the list is that the Territory is a driver’s vehicle.

Rather than looking at it through the prism of a Mitsubishi verses a Ford, I would suggest taking a longer view and looking at the PHEV through the prism of petrol verses diesel verses PHEV. Here, I see some exciting technology.

A personal rant … there seems to be a section of society that absolutely hates cars, would ban automobiles if they had half a chance, and pushes public transport. One of the core arguments the anti-car brigade uses to make us motorists feel guilty is that cars burn fossil fuels. The PHEV punctures a big hole in that cars-are-bad argument. If it makes one feel good, the PHEV can be powered by renewable energy. The technology in the PHEV is a return to guilt-free motoring. A Territory PHEV would certainly float my boat.

That is surprising mate, not a lot of difference there, i thought the mitsu would have been a big wack of coin more, it will be interesting how it pans out over a period of time,
i wish you happy motoring.

[danzvtil]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

The ECOnetic was a bloody wasted opportunity by Ford. They had Australia's most economical car then decided to slug buyers near 10K over the base model it was based on. What was the 'Tech' to justify the premium? A diesel engine. Woopty doo.

Then, they decided to not offer an auto box to a market that just LOVES auto cars.

Stupid, stupid, stupid...

The ECOnetic is a model designed primarily for Europe, that's why it was never designed with an auto. I do agree it was overpriced in Australia.

[zilo]

will it start if there is no petrol in the tank?

[GASWAGON]

Originally Posted by whynot

Yes the fuel could go stale, but the onboard electronics will not let that happen. If there is no fuel addition within six months, the petrol engine turns on and keeps running until the tank is drained. Sort of force the driver to add fresh fuel from time to time.

Gees thats a good feature.....Although i think unleaded would go stale within 3 months.

[whynot]

Originally Posted by zilo

will it start if there is no petrol in the tank?

That is a good question. I don't know the answer and I cannot find anything in the owner's manual either.

[GASWAGON]

Originally Posted by whynot

That is a good question. I don't know the answer and I cannot find anything in the owner's manual either.

As I said unleaded fuel goes stale within 3 months ......So realistically with your driving style you will be topping up the tank every now and then anyways.

You got nothing to worry about.

[EA30TH]

I have a head start on a bunch of you having bought a Volt some time ago. here's a few comments and hints:

1. Yes Ford Australia is still myopic and silly for not knowing that investing in the brand and image now is what will allow them to compete when sales do catch on. Always last to realize this
2. Regarding the charger getting stolen, what I do is put the charger on the back seat and run the charge lead to the plug on the car out through the window. I then hook up an extension lead to the charger leaving the female plug and charger inside the car. I run the extension lead male to the power point out through the window. I then roll the window up to max. My charger is now safe, and the most that can happen is someone cuts the cords (not likely).
3. Petrol generators actually make sense for now. The petrol engines are lighter and simpler. As one the big efficiency issues with a petrol engine is that it is quantity governed (i.e. the amount of air going in determines power) and uses a throttle, this causes pumping losses where the engine is exerting effort trying to fight the intake vacuum. Since the generator application allows the engine to run intermittently the engineers have set the engine to run at higher throttle and rpm thereby taking away the low rpm low power running, i.e. at more efficient engine ranges. The camshaft, compression ratio and so on are all optimized for the engine running within a narrow power band further increasing efficiency.
4. Over 15000km now my Volt is doing 1.2l/100km lifetime average, exactly same as the ADR sticker inclusive of interstate trips. How many normal cars match the sticker in real life?

Congratulations to Mitsubishi. Imagine if Ford Australia had truly inspiring leadership and spent their green car funds on putting the energi drivetrains in Territory and/or Falcon or bringing those technologies to market in a normal car (let's be honest and say Volt is a niche car not because it is PHEV, rather because it is a premium four seater with one of the worst matching badges on it).

[EA30TH]

Originally Posted by EF_6

As I said unleaded fuel goes stale within 3 months ......So realistically with your driving style you will be topping up the tank every now and then anyways.

You got nothing to worry about.

This is thinking like a normal car owner. PHEVs do not use normal technology.

To keep the fuel from going off shorter term cars like the Volt remove the normal venting from the fuel system. The tank is pressurized and sealed stopping the degradation of the fuel by continual exposure to air. When you go to refuel the tank requires the user to select a button which then runs a tank venting process and only then can you open the cap.

The Volt was updated with software to add a maintenance mode. The computer knows when you add fuel and how long it is in there. if the average looks like fuel may be going stale the car issues a message to the driver and will run the engine to burn fuel.

[whynot]

Just an update with the fuel consumption on the Outlander PHEV. I have done nearly 1500 km, and burnt around 40l of petrol for an average of 2.67l/100km (105 mpg in the old language). This consisted of around 1000km of city driving using fuel at 0.5l/100km (564 mpg in the old language), and 500 km of highway driving at 7l/100km (40 mpg). Also burnt around 200 kWh of electricity (at 20c/kwh), costing $40.

I can make it to and from work (round trip of 40km) exclusively on battery and no fuel. However, most morning trips I draw off around 80ml of petrol to climb one hill.

Biggest range killer when running on battery is the electric (inverter) A/C. Turning this on drops the range from 50km to 30km. The default climate control settings has the compressor on. With the winter mornings, I manually turn off the compressor and run on heat only (plus heated seats). However, when spring/summer comes, I suspect that I will be leaving the A/C on and having to burn petrol to make it home.


My rule of thumb for "fuel" running costs on battery is 1/4 the price of petrol when using night-rate electricity, 1/3 the price of petrol when using off-peak electricity, and 1/2 the price of electricity when using normal tariff.


Very happy with the technology, the drive train, and the electronic smarts that control engine, battery, and motors. However, the GPS, Bluetooth, and ICC could do with some serious work by ergonomist.

[Rodge]

Interesting technology and a very commendable effort on the part of Mitsubishi.
Electric vehicles are becoming something of a talking point in New Zealand with fuel at approx. $2.10 a litre. The release of this PHEV vehicle which is selling very well here and Nissan making a dramatic price drop with the Leaf $69,990 down to $39,990 has added interest in this sector.

Chief among the concerns I have heard expressed are
1. The gradual deterioration in the battery
2. Why are manufacturers giving such limited warranties on the lithium-ion batteries and what does this tell you about the manufacturers expectations in terms of how quickly battery performance will deteriorate over time ?

We have had Toyota and Honda with their nickel metal hydride batteries happy to give an 8 year warranty on their hybrid batteries.
When the Volt came out sometime back it was interesting to note that Holden did not follow warranty convention here and would give nothing more than the usual 3 year Holden warranty, likewise with the Nissan Leaf. The fact that they won't back their batteries with anything more than a 3 year warranty when the conventional norm here is 8 years speaks volumes to me. They are asking consumers to take the risk on battery degradation while contemporaneously asking them to pay top prices for new technology.

Now we have the Mitsubishi PHEV. With Mitsubishi product in N.Z. we still have the 5 / 10 year warranty thing, (10 years on the powertrain).
For the Phev however, this has its own warranty of 5 years overall. While this provides more comfort than Nissan or Holden 3 year warranty it still signals to me that the manufacturer expects serious battery deterioration sometime after 5 years and isn't confident enough to give the standard 10 year powertrain warranty. You've got to be wondering what these more limited warranties on lithium ion batteries are telling you in terms of expected longevity when nickel metal hydride battery manufacturers have been happy to warranty their batteries for 8 years and this has been the expected standard now in the industry.

I expect there will be some disappointment with battery capacity deterioration over time. Its all very well to get 40 km's on battery performance when its new, probably 30 km's around the hills where we live but what about when battery performance has degraded significantly ? In 6 years time will anyone be even interested in buying a second hand Phev with a useful battery range of perhaps only 20 km's in real world conditions ? Begs a serious question with re-sale in my opinion.

[Cashie]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Interesting technology and a very commendable effort on the part of Mitsubishi.
Electric vehicles are becoming something of a talking point in New Zealand with fuel at approx. $2.10 a litre. The release of this PHEV vehicle which is selling very well here and Nissan making a dramatic price drop with the Leaf $69,990 down to $39,990 has added interest in this sector.

Chief among the concerns I have heard expressed are
1. The gradual deterioration in the battery
2. Why are manufacturers giving such limited warranties on the lithium-ion batteries and what does this tell you about the manufacturers expectations in terms of how quickly battery performance will deteriorate over time ?

We have had Toyota and Honda with their nickel metal hydride batteries happy to give an 8 year warranty on their hybrid batteries.
When the Volt came out sometime back it was interesting to note that Holden did not follow warranty convention here and would give nothing more than the usual 3 year Holden warranty, likewise with the Nissan Leaf. The fact that they won't back their batteries with anything more than a 3 year warranty when the conventional norm here is 8 years speaks volumes to me. They are asking consumers to take the risk on battery degradation while contemporaneously asking them to pay top prices for new technology.

Now we have the Mitsubishi PHEV. With Mitsubishi product in N.Z. we still have the 5 / 10 year warranty thing, (10 years on the powertrain).
For the Phev however, this has its own warranty of 5 years overall. While this provides more comfort than Nissan or Holden 3 year warranty it still signals to me that the manufacturer expects serious battery deterioration sometime after 5 years and isn't confident enough to give the standard 10 year powertrain warranty. You've got to be wondering what these more limited warranties on lithium ion batteries are telling you in terms of expected longevity when nickel metal hydride battery manufacturers have been happy to warranty their batteries for 8 years and this has been the expected standard now in the industry.

I expect there will be some disappointment with battery capacity deterioration over time. Its all very well to get 40 km's on battery performance when its new, probably 30 km's around the hills where we live but what about when battery performance has degraded significantly ? In 6 years time will anyone be even interested in buying a second hand Phev with a useful battery range of perhaps only 20 km's in real world conditions ? Begs a serious question with re-sale in my opinion.

Are you certain that the Volt battery only comes with the standard 3yr/100,000km warranty Rodge?
Always been 8 to my knowledge.
http://media.gm.com/media/au/en/hold...volt/2013.html

[Rodge]

Thanks. Opps, my bad. The Nissan leaf has the "mighty" 3 year battery warranty and Mitsubishi are 5.

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by whynot

Yeah … it is head scratching at first … but consider this. Yes, a diesel is more economical per gram of fuel, but significantly more expensive across whole of life. As it is, the first round of PHEV owners will not recover their capital costs and are just doing it for a nice warm fuzzy feeling. A diesel would just make it harder to afford one. Remember, that a PHEV could be going through as little as 300 litres of fuel in a year. We could be installing a $3000 diesel engine to save as little as 20 litres of fuel in difference between petrol and diesel engines.

no.
Diesel engines don't actually cost that much more to manufacture. Car makers charge more because they CAN. In the same way that a Titanium will sell for $10~20k more than a base model, despite only costing a few k more to build.

If you are building a car for economy, then not using a diesel engine is nuts. Particularly if it is working as a generator.

The reason is "smoke & mirrors" marketing.
The priass wasn't the first Hybrid in Australia, nor at the time even the "best."
Honda introduced a Hybrid Civic. Their problem was that it gave an honest alternative. Buyers could buy a Civic for say $20k, or for $30k they could get the same car (except heavier and less boot space) in a Hybrid. It didn't take much to figure out that the Hybrid could never pay for itself.

Whereas numnuts thought nothing of forking out $40k for a Prias and then congratulating themselves on how much money they were saving on petrol.
Meanwhile diesel owners just looked on and laughed.

Which is the problem. Build a diesel hybrid or hyper, and it will be more economical than petrol, but the savings between a regular diesel and the hybrid would make the cost of the hybrid laughable.

The push for plug-in petrol hybrids is largely being driven by the US market. For some reason they still hate diesels, whereas they generate a lot of electricity from Nuclear and Hydropower, so using reticulated electricity makes sense.
I don't know how much power you guys get from the Snowies, but in WA our power comes from coal and gas. Now personally, I think the idea of burning coal to power electric cars has merit, but the greenies hate coal.

[Cashie]

Modern diesel engines are pretty expensive to manufacture, manufacturers claim these costs result from an engine that has, high compression, variable vain turbos, particulate filters ($5000-10000), Common Rail Piezo Injectors ($1000-7000 ea), 3000 bar (44,000 psi) fuel pressures..
Manufacturers can fit a petrol engine optimised to run at a set rpm into a PHEV very cheaply (as they did with the volt).

[Windsor220]

Battery deterioration is supposed to be down to 80% after 10 years.

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

Battery deterioration is supposed to be down to 80% after 10 years.

Yes I read that "marketing" claim too which sounds to good to be true. Just think about how your lithium ion powered laptop's battery performance has degraded so dramatically in only 2-3 years !!
If something sounds to good to be true and isn't backed by the warranty then most people will draw their own conclusions.

Not trying to start any campaign here...just trying to be objective and encourage others to think objectivly. While I admire what they've done from a technical perspective with this Phev how things play out in terms of battery longevity, (why isn't the battery warranty longer if they claim 80% capacity after ten years ?), and re-sale values are two things I think people need to have a good long think about.

Disclosure - I have an interest in this sector because my wife has a Honda Civic hybrid and we're looking to upgrade to new technology, (no hurry), but is this the one or do we wait for a better package ? (we're leaning towards waiting for a more compelling opportunity).

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Yes I read that "marketing" claim too which sounds to good to be true. Just think about how your lithium ion powered laptop's battery performance has degraded so dramatically in only 2-3 years !!
If something sounds to good to be true and isn't backed by the warranty then most people will draw their own conclusions.

Not trying to start any campaign here...just trying to be objective and encourage others to think objectivly. While I admire what they've done from a technical perspective with this Phev how things play out in terms of battery longevity, (why isn't the battery warranty longer if they claim 80% capacity after ten years ?), and re-sale values are two things I think people need to have a good long think about.

Disclosure - I have an interest in this sector because my wife has a Honda Civic hybrid and we're looking to upgrade to new technology, (no hurry), but is this the one or do we wait for a better package ? (we're leaning towards waiting for a more compelling opportunity).

Yep they aren't something you would buy without some thought at this stage. Especially with the cost. They are still relatively new with this sort of technology. Its like when EFI came out and refined itself over the years. EVs will become common in the future and I'm sure battery life/cost will sort itself out eventually.

[GASWAGON]

I still think its great Mitsubishi have produced a station wagon in EV design ....So versatile....Wonderful!

[whynot]

Originally Posted by Rodge

They are asking consumers to take the risk on battery degradation while contemporaneously asking them to pay top prices for new technology.

As opposed to the risk of someone buying a 2010 FG Falcon, finding out their ZF gearbox contains a milkshake, the vehicle is out of its three year warranty, and having to fork out $6000 for repairs?

Originally Posted by Rodge

Just think about how your lithium ion powered laptop's battery performance has degraded so dramatically in only 2-3 years !!

Comparing apples and oranges here. The laptop charging cycle is designed so that the battery lasts around the same age as the rest of the technology. Once a laptop is over three years old, it is considered a dinosaur. If a laptop battery had a 15 year life, it would still be running on an Intel 486 CPU and Windows 95.

Batteries in EV application are deliberately underrated and the onboard computer exposes it to a softer duty cycle. There are Pirus in Vancouver taxi fleet that have done over 300,000 miles and ten years on the original battery, and I am seeing local Pirus taxi around Brisbane at over 250,000 km. So, I am not concerned about the life cycle of the battery pack as such.

Looking at the technology, it appears that Mitsubishi have done some clever things with the battery arrangement so as to allow partial bank replacement (at a lower cost) to restore most of the battery capacity. Besides, in ten years time, the price of batteries will have fallen a lot more.

In terms of cost recovery, by my calculations the PHEV's payback period is 5.4 years over petrol (and even a shorter period over diesel). Last year, I was in a Camry hybrid taxi in Canberra and the taxi driver stated he was saving around $6,000 per year in fuel costs over his previous LPG powered Falcon wagon.

I do agree the PHEV is not for everyone. Actually, it presently only makes financial sense in a few fringe cases. But, for various reasons, including that I am an electrician, I wanted to play with the technology. It was a shiny toy and I bought it.

FoUSA are playing with some very interesting PHEV/EV technology. There is 2015 Fusion Energi Plug-In Hybrid 2.0L (a PHEV) and the 2014 Ford Focus Electric (a pure EV).

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Cashie

Modern diesel engines are pretty expensive to manufacture, manufacturers claim these costs result from an engine that has, high compression, variable vain turbos, particulate filters ($5000-10000), Common Rail Piezo Injectors ($1000-7000 ea), 3000 bar (44,000 psi) fuel pressures..
Manufacturers can fit a petrol engine optimised to run at a set rpm into a PHEV very cheaply (as they did with the volt).

Remember it wouldn't be driving the wheels so it probably doesn't need a DPF as it wouldn't be solely powering the vehicle like a normal diesel car would so it wouldnt have a VGT turbo or needing common rail technology.

Weight would be the main issue, diesel engines are usually all cast iron.

[Cashie]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Remember it wouldn't be driving the wheels so it probably doesn't need a DPF as it wouldn't be solely powering the vehicle like a normal diesel car would so it wouldnt have a VGT turbo or needing common rail technology.

Weight would be the main issue, diesel engines are usually all cast iron.

Yes, some good points, also the fact that diesels can be made very efficient to operate in a determined power/rev band.
I even think the weight issue isn't a stopper, aren't they starting to make diesels out of alloy? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_4N1_engine

[Franco Cozzo]

Its not too common to see alloy diesel engines, Honda's new diesel is all alloy though.

Just about everything is cast iron with cast iron heads as its probably much cheaper or there hasn't been much development into it, its only very recently.

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by whynot

As opposed to the risk of someone buying a 2010 FG Falcon, finding out their ZF gearbox contains a milkshake, the vehicle is out of its three year warranty, and having to fork out $6000 for repairs?



Comparing apples and oranges here. The laptop charging cycle is designed so that the battery lasts around the same age as the rest of the technology. Once a laptop is over three years old, it is considered a dinosaur. If a laptop battery had a 15 year life, it would still be running on an Intel 486 CPU and Windows 95.

Batteries in EV application are deliberately underrated and the onboard computer exposes it to a softer duty cycle. There are Pirus in Vancouver taxi fleet that have done over 300,000 miles and ten years on the original battery, and I am seeing local Pirus taxi around Brisbane at over 250,000 km. So, I am not concerned about the life cycle of the battery pack as such.

Looking at the technology, it appears that Mitsubishi have done some clever things with the battery arrangement so as to allow partial bank replacement (at a lower cost) to restore most of the battery capacity. Besides, in ten years time, the price of batteries will have fallen a lot more.

In terms of cost recovery, by my calculations the PHEV's payback period is 5.4 years over petrol (and even a shorter period over diesel). Last year, I was in a Camry hybrid taxi in Canberra and the taxi driver stated he was saving around $6,000 per year in fuel costs over his previous LPG powered Falcon wagon.

I do agree the PHEV is not for everyone. Actually, it presently only makes financial sense in a few fringe cases. But, for various reasons, including that I am an electrician, I wanted to play with the technology. It was a shiny toy and I bought it.

FoUSA are playing with some very interesting PHEV/EV technology. There is 2015 Fusion Energi Plug-In Hybrid 2.0L (a PHEV) and the 2014 Ford Focus Electric (a pure EV).

Milkshake thing is a red herring as the price of a 3 year old FG is considerably different to new Phev and the buyer could option in an additional 3 year Ford warranty at modest cost but you make some other good points which are fair enough and you don't need an excuse to buy one if you like new technology and the payback period is only 5.4 years for you and taking into account your occupation and desire to play with some new technology I can certainly understand your point of view.

The point you make about longevity of Prius and Camry hybrids is accepted but as previously noted those batteries are nickel metal hydride and have been proven to be durable. My wife's Honda Civic hybrid which is now 6 years old and has paid back the hybrid premium already is also showing no signs whatsoever of battery deterioration, again this is the older battery technology but interestingly I phoned the Honda dealer the other day just out of curiosity and for a few hundred bucks, I think it was $300 from memory we could extend the battery warranty out from 8 years to 12 years, now that's what I call confidence in your product !! Interestingly a replacement battery for her vehicle is now only $900. I accept the Honda IMA system is very old technology now but its cheap and reliable and has provided some useful savings over a regular shopping basket Civic and she likes the extra torque the hybrid system has over the petrol only model. Honda claim 4.6 L / 100 km's but in practice its in the mid-high 6 L / 100 km's as its very hilly around where we live.

All the hills would make for excellent opportunities to capture regenerative braking energy and the six stage settings the Phev uses is highly innovative technology in my opinion and would be well suitable to our local conditions.
Also a Phev would be a far more versatile vehicle for us than the current Civic, especially when it comes to taking our 3 dogs to the beach and that sort of thing.

Can you buy an extended warranty on your battery out to 8 years ? If you could that would make the vehicle a more attractive proposition for us.

I agree battery prices will definitely come down over time as mass production ramps up and its great that Mitsubishi have adopted a modular approach allowing partial replacement.

Its also good that the top spec Phev model contains all the very latest technology like adaptive cruise control so there's plenty of other shiny new bits of technology to play with that many people won't have had before.

I'll be following your ownership journey with interest and thanks for sharing.

[Franco Cozzo]

I'd like to get my hands on one, force the engine to run 24/7 to charge batteries and feed the electric motor more voltage and current lol.

Haullin *** sounding like a tram.