Vfacts January 2019

[buggerlugs]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

I won't get into your fellow forum member issues...and your point about financing is very, very valid. I also think whenever a Federal election is coming it has historically always created a "holding pattern" in the economy. I think the high end Rangers especially are bought by small business owners and "us small business owners" are definitely in a cost watching environment which I think started six months ago.

I see it with my clients where suddenly they are asking for a price-list "on everything you supply us" which is code for "I'm comparing your prices to competitors, I'm too lazy to look up all the prices on your invoices and want it in a single spreadsheet by you". When your own suppliers are now making more frequent sales calls to see if we require any stock you know things have slowed considerably as these suppliers are dealing in products that are bought upto 6 months in advance.

Spot on. It is happening and has been happening as you say for at least 6 months.......

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Several members here have indicated that I've been way to aggressive on these forums,
so I'm turning over a new leaf and to all those I've offended here, particularly Bent 8
my sincerest apologies.

You dont have to appologise to me fella, i admire your passion and dedication to the brand, sometimes i feel as though you and a couple of others i wont name but im sure you know who im referring too, come across as a bit propogandist where thats concerned but i was only thinking last night that you probably do a better job of Ford PR than the people they actually employ for that purpose.
Hell, i even appreciate PB's attempts and find #picantolyfe kinda cute, i might get a sticker made up for it..lol

Having said that, its ok to agree to disagree on things, you may feel that im a little antagonising on certain aspects but that is not my intention, i simply interpret things in a different light to you and maybe i look at things a little too simplisticly but until i see hard evidence to suggest otherwise i will ask the hard question.
If we all just sat around and circle jerked over the blue oval it would be a pretty boring and predicatable place and lets face it, every story needs a villain, just dont let the frustrations lead you to make it personal, its not worth the stress as opinions are like arseholes, we all have them.

[hackney]

Originally Posted by jpd80

In fairness to Holden, I think they did a great job of sticking to their knitting
and worked through inventory so now hopefully, fresh stock will be arriving soon.

Several members here have indicated that I've been way to aggressive on these forums,
so I'm turning over a new leaf and to all those I've offended here, particularly Bent 8
my sincerest apologies.

Does anyone have figures on HSV Camaro sales?

Could you confirm or deny,that your new “Leaf” is related to Nissan?

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

You dont have to appologise to me fella, i admire your passion and dedication to the brand, sometimes i feel as though you and a couple of others i wont name but im sure you know who im referring too, come across as a bit propogandist where thats concerned but i was only thinking last night that you probably do a better job of Ford PR than the people they actually employ for that purpose.
Hell, i even appreciate PB's attempts and find #picantolyfe kinda cute, i might get a sticker made up for it..lol

Having said that, its ok to agree to disagree on things, you may feel that im a little antagonising on certain aspects but that is not my intention, i simply interpret things in a different light to you and maybe i look at things a little too simplisticly but until i see hard evidence to suggest otherwise i will ask the hard question.
If we all just sat around and circle jerked over the blue oval it would be a pretty boring and predicatable place and lets face it, every story needs a villain, just dont let the frustrations lead you to make it personal, its not worth the stress as opinions are like arseholes, we all have them.

Thank you, I've had time to think about your comments regarding what Ford should do
if them market starts to slow and those high end sales start to slow down.

Something that occurred to me is the need for "push advertising" those products that
are pitched at premium prices - they need to be advertised otherwise sales go off the boil.
I don't know if it was a coincidence but i noticed a distinct lack of Ranger advertising last month.

This month I notice Ford is advertising Endura plus cameos of Everest and Escape - good reminder.
Also last night finally, Focus hatch and station wagon Ford ad on the television, yay..

Another thing Ford should do is compare what its done in the past four years versus Mazda
and maybe take a page from their playbook when delivering products, know your buyers
and give them what they want...

Originally Posted by hackney

Could you confirm or deny,that your new “Leaf” is related to Nissan?

Hilarious.....

[Dr Smith]

I popped into one of my local Ford dealers last Saturday to look at the new Focus. We have a daughter that's now a learner driver and I was thinking that in the last stages of her training she probably should be in the car she will have long term..hence thinking of Fiesta/Focus. I completely forgot the Fiesta will be the manual-only ST..which cuts that out.

The Focus has really gone up a level in quality and looked fantastic in some of the colours on display. More importantly there's stock available hence maybe why the ads have started on TV. I still think the new Mazda3 interior implements this a little better but the gap imho has narrowed compared to the previous model, I don't like the new 2019 Mazda3 hatch rear compared to its sedan.

What impressed me the most was the salesperson, he was young, eager without being pushy and knew his products really very well and I'm a train-spotter when it comes to Fords. I thought now this is what should be the standard. He asked if I would mind giving him my details (I said if you look up sales/service records I'm there and he did) and I asked him which days he wasn't working, which made him raise his eyebrows at first and then I added "so I know when I return you will be working".

I'm thinking waiting for Focus Active however our daughter has some serious saving to meet her financial contribution

[roKWiz]

Will be interesting to see Feb figures with a new BitsofMitsy Triton release.

Re the economy..
Yes, I can feel a recession coming this year. The doctors and farmers are calling me for quotes. (long term old money)

[g220ba]

Just to give a little context to mondeos recent appaling sales figures, we just took delivery of our new titanium wagon and it was delayed a month due to the boat it was on being sent to singapore for cleaning due to a biohazard risk. The car was due for january delivery. I would imagine better delivery figures this month on the back of it.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by g220ba

Just to give a little context to mondeos recent appaling sales figures, we just took delivery of our new titanium wagon and it was delayed a month due to the boat it was on being sent to singapore for cleaning due to a biohazard risk. The car was due for january delivery. I would imagine better delivery figures this month on the back of it.

Stink Bugs...

Apparently its effecting many manufacturers but they all deny its their product which has contaminated the shipments, preffering to blame other sources.

[jpd80]

Maybe they lost a few at sea

[mcflux]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Will be interesting to see Feb figures with a new BitsofMitsy Triton release.

Maybe I’m going blind but I don’t mind the new Triton! Not the chromed-up models but the base models.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

#picantolyfe

If we do get a proper recession, picantolyfe is going to become a big thing. Bent 8 is ahead of the pack.

#Yarislyfe

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The bottom line for small cars is now around 23 k. Yeah you might see some drive away deals below that but the RRP price has snuck up. Corolla, I30 and new Mazda 3 etc. There is next to no profit at 20k drive away, thats why Hyundai upped the price of the new I30 and stopped doing drive away deals under 20k. I have heard from a industry insider that those $19,990 drive away deals on the old I30's would struggle to make a profit if the dealer threw in a set of floor mats. That's how razor thin the margins were.

Ford no longer bothers doing this. If they can't make a reasonable profit on a car they won't bother selling it. That's why the new Fiesta will only come in as an ST. There is next to no profit in the other models.

Sourcing cars out of europe doesn't help, things might be a little better if they come out of South Korea or Japan.

Good post and agree, but what gets my goat are the former promises that when our manufacturing ended (and all the inefficient subsidies) and tariffs go down to zero, we'd get cheaper cars. Nope. Base Corolla and Focus now $27K driveaway.

Originally Posted by hayseed

My Local Hyundai Dealer (Smallish NSW country Dealer) Told me That His mate who Owns the Local BETTA Electrical Franchise makes as Much money on a $2,000 Fridge Than he does on a $20,000 Car..

Whitegoods on wheels! More profit margin. Genius.

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

I won't get into your fellow forum member issues...and your point about financing is very, very valid. I also think whenever a Federal election is coming it has historically always created a "holding pattern" in the economy. I think the high end Rangers especially are bought by small business owners and "us small business owners" are definitely in a cost watching environment which I think started six months ago.

I see it with my clients where suddenly they are asking for a price-list "on everything you supply us" which is code for "I'm comparing your prices to competitors, I'm too lazy to look up all the prices on your invoices and want it in a single spreadsheet by you". When your own suppliers are now making more frequent sales calls to see if we require any stock you know things have slowed considerably as these suppliers are dealing in products that are bought upto 6 months in advance.

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Will be interesting to see Feb figures with a new BitsofMitsy Triton release.

Re the economy..
Yes, I can feel a recession coming this year. The doctors and farmers are calling me for quotes. (long term old money)

Hey Rokwiz, this one went over my head - why would the old rural money want to contact a stonemason because a recession is inbound? Being the old money, they'll be around after it so headstones are out. Maybe they like to wait and engage tradesmen when cost pressures go down? Otherwise, I'm stumped.

Great post Dr Smith, I can see it here too - less volume during the holiday season reported across quite a few businesses. Pulling back on construction businesses also seen. Time to reef the main and batten down the hatches.

[danzvtil]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

I won't get into your fellow forum member issues...and your point about financing is very, very valid. I also think whenever a Federal election is coming it has historically always created a "holding pattern" in the economy. I think the high end Rangers especially are bought by small business owners and "us small business owners" are definitely in a cost watching environment which I think started six months ago.

I see it with my clients where suddenly they are asking for a price-list "on everything you supply us" which is code for "I'm comparing your prices to competitors, I'm too lazy to look up all the prices on your invoices and want it in a single spreadsheet by you". When your own suppliers are now making more frequent sales calls to see if we require any stock you know things have slowed considerably as these suppliers are dealing in products that are bought upto 6 months in advance.

I too have noticed the price list request from my customers, they are also buying smaller amounts more often rather than stocking up and sitting on inventory.
We were due to changeover our Cruze fleet this May at 3yo, but cost of doing business increases have been savage, so we will push them out to 4 years.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by BP'93

Holden is targeting 10,000 units for Acadia for the year

Not sure where you get the figures from, but if true it would appear they didn't learn their lesson from zb over supply. Not a snowballs chance they'll move 10000 units this year.

[BP'93]

Originally Posted by prydey

Not sure where you get the figures from, but if true it would appear they didn't learn their lesson from zb over supply. Not a snowballs chance they'll move 10000 units this year.

Both a dealer and an employee who works at Holden logistics on a Facebook post. They're targeting but won't meet it. Demand is outstripping supply.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by BP'93

Both a dealer and an employee who works at Holden logistics on a Facebook post. They're targeting but won't meet it. Demand is outstripping supply.

Now that's impressive, so frustrating to turn away customers eager to buy,
I hope they can ramp up supplies soon and fill the need.

Maybe Holden's progress with Acadia might force Ford to look at a lower cost 2.0 EB auto for Endura,
IMO, they need to get that Endura starting price down to about $45K

[Adamz Ghia]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Now that's impressive, so frustrating to turn away customers eager to buy,
I hope they can ramp up supplies soon and fill the need.

Maybe Holden's progress with Acadia might force Ford to look at a lower cost 2.0 EB auto for Endura,
IMO, they need to get that Endura starting price down to about $45K

Is Endura a true competitor for Acadia? Isn’t there a big size difference? I’m yet to see an Endura in the metal.n

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

Is Endura a true competitor for Acadia? Isn’t there a big size difference? I’m yet to see an Endura in the metal.n

Not a true competitor but they have the same wheelbase, the Endura has a shorter hatch back.
The Chinese 7-seat 3-row Edge with 100mm longer tail is similar length to Acadia......

Vehicle.................length..................wi dth.................wheelbase
Acadia..............193.6"/4,917......75.4/1915............112..5/2,857
Endura.............188.1"/4,779......75.9/1928............112..2/2,850
Edge 7 seat.......192.0"/4,878......75.9/1928.............112..2/2,850

[prydey]

Originally Posted by jpd80

IMO, they need to get that Endura starting price down to about $45K

in my industry, a few years ago some of our competition dropped their prices to win the sales. It worked for them, and it was tempting to follow suit, but we stuck to our guns and endured some tough times while the competition were seemingly going great guns.

fastforward to now, and those competitors no longer exist. eventually the doors closed, as they weren't making money. No point dropping the price for a sale as the price never goes back up and its not sustainable long term.

not saying this is the case with car pricing, but profit trumps sales numbers every time. If you can get both, that's great, but I wouldn't be too hasty to get the sale in the short term.

When Ranger came out, people said it was too expensive. when Everest came out, people said it was too expensive. I'm not privy to the inside scoop at Ford, but i'm guessing they would be happy with how those vehicles are going. Of course, they will always want to sell as many as they can. I don't mean they are happy as in sitting back with their feet up sipping champagne. They would have a target in mind and its my belief they are meeting those internal targets as far as profits go.

I'd give Endura a chance first before discussing how it sits price wise.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

Is Endura a true competitor for Acadia? Isn’t there a big size difference? I’m yet to see an Endura in the metal.n

you are right. Acadia is Everest territory.

They are aiming it toward the 'people mover' market though, rather than the traditional lifestyle segment. no diesel and max 2T towing.

edit, just saw the sizes put up by JPD. looks like I could be wrong. I thought Acadia was bigger than Endura. Hard to find dimension specs on holden's website.

[jpd80]

The RHD developed Edge was only done with 2.0 diesel because Europe had no need for the 2.0 EB,
I think it's a mistake to follow European vehicle choices so closely, the Acadia is gasoline only
and Holden is offering Acadia '18 plate for $42,990 drive away...

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Hey Rokwiz, this one went over my head - why would the old rural money want to contact a stonemason because a recession is inbound? Being the old money, they'll be around after it so headstones are out. Maybe they like to wait and engage tradesmen when cost pressures go down? Otherwise, I'm stumped.
.

I think you need to look up what a Heritage Stonemason is ! I think you have me confused with a Monumental mason who do headstones.

I restore old stone buildings and build new stone structures for clients the traditional way. ie everything is done by hand.
Usually people such as doctors and farmers invest back into to their properties when recessions are looming, actually most old money families invest in estate improvements when this starts to happen. I've experienced this over the last few recessions and its starting to happen again now.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by prydey

in my industry, a few years ago some of our competition dropped their prices to win the sales. It worked for them, and it was tempting to follow suit, but we stuck to our guns and endured some tough times while the competition were seemingly going great guns.

fastforward to now, and those competitors no longer exist. eventually the doors closed, as they weren't making money. No point dropping the price for a sale as the price never goes back up and its not sustainable long term.

not saying this is the case with car pricing, but profit trumps sales numbers every time. If you can get both, that's great, but I wouldn't be too hasty to get the sale in the short term.

When Ranger came out, people said it was too expensive. when Everest came out, people said it was too expensive. I'm not privy to the inside scoop at Ford, but i'm guessing they would be happy with how those vehicles are going. Of course, they will always want to sell as many as they can. I don't mean they are happy as in sitting back with their feet up sipping champagne. They would have a target in mind and its my belief they are meeting those internal targets as far as profits go.

I'd give Endura a chance first before discussing how it sits price wise.

I understand your line of thinking but consider that a customer comparing Ford SUVs let's say
at the Trend level sees Escape at $36K, Endura at $49K and Everest at $52K, Endura looks high.


Now considering that the Endura is not a 3-row SUV, I would think that upselling its virtues
over the escape and comfort over the Everest would put it around $42K but with an Ecoboost engine,
I wouldn't short sell the diesel's premium price but instead offer the 2.0 EB across all trim levels.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Not a true competitor but they have the same wheelbase, the Endura has a shorter hatch back.
The Chinese 7-seat 3-row Edge with 100mm longer tail is similar length to Acadia......

Vehicle.................length..................wi dth.................wheelbase
Acadia..............193.6"/4,917......75.4/1915............112..5/2,857
Endura.............188.1"/4,779......75.9/1928............112..2/2,850
Edge 7 seat.......192.0"/4,878......75.9/1928.............112..2/2,850

just for extra comparison

Ford Everest...……...4903 (length)…..1869 (width)……..2850 (wheelbase).

It highlights how just looking at the numbers can be deceiving. Obviously not much between the Endura and Everest, and I still maintain the Acadia is closer to Everest sizing in the flesh.

[SumoDog68]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

WOW!

Meanwhile in Australia, only 59 people were stupid enough to buy an EcoSport in January.

I had ST line Ecosport as a hire car in Germany and neighbouring countries - 3 cyl 1.0 l ecoboost and cruises happily at 160+. Covered over 3000km in it , good size for their crowded cities ,economical and practical. Euro version looks much better than aussie one though.
For a city car , you could do worse.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by prydey

just for extra comparison

Ford Everest...……...4903 (length)…..1869 (width)……..2850 (wheelbase).

It highlights how just looking at the numbers can be deceiving. Obviously not much between the Endura and Everest, and I still maintain the Acadia is closer to Everest sizing in the flesh.

Numbers don't lie,
Considering they all have the same wheelbase, that is so, Endura is more like a hatchback than SUV
but the Chinese 7-seat version is more like the Territory....if that makes sense..
Endura is more like a big Mazda CX-7.......

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6 View Post
WOW!

Meanwhile in Australia, only 59 people were stupid enough to buy an EcoSport in January.

The vehicle Europe is developing above it (Puma?) is more like a Mazda CX-3,
that would work much better for our market......

[Dr Smith]

The question I'd like answered is why would I choose to buy an Endura over it's opposition.

When I bought a BA wagon over VY wagon the engine and auto was so much better it wasn't funny, interior I felt was again a class better and the VY wagon's handing wasn't so much better then the BA,
G6ET...well if you have to ask you don't belong on this forum...
Several Territory's..again one of the best driving SUV's ever made and great towing, comfort and ride and in my case never had any problems apart from one of them trying to hold up a fallen gum tree and loosing.
Transit Custom..great driving, smooth auto, larger than iLoad, better value than T6/Vito, much safer than Hiace.
Now to Endura...what does it have that makes me buy one over it's competitors...or trade in the Territory, size: no, hipo: no, 7 seats:no, better value:no....it has all the safety tech the Territory doesn't...but..I'm still wondering

[jpd80]

And I just noticed, Everest width without mirrors is 1869 mm versus Endura at 1928mm,
that adds up to a bit more hip and shoulder room. Also, noticed when following Everest
that it looks quite egg shaped from the back, sloped sides and the roof looks a bit narrow.

Endura is after a different group of buyers to former Territory owners but yeah, the 7-seat Edge would help..

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

The question I'd like answered is why would I choose to buy an Endura over it's opposition.

this is something only the individual can answer. everyone prioritises different things, and this is made very clear by the large array of cars that are sold every month. If everyone put credence in the same attributes or perceived value, then there would be no need for the 60+ brands and over 250models in the Australian market place.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by prydey

this is something only the individual can answer. everyone prioritises different things, and this is made very clear by the large array of cars that are sold every month. If everyone put credence in the same attributes or perceived value, then there would be no need for the 60+ brands and over 250models in the Australian market place.

Diversity is everything in out market, the top selling vehicle rarely ever crack 4,000 sales in a month
so that tells us the wide choice of vehicles and models simply cannot be covered by just one brand.


That is why it's important for Ford to seek out those areas of the market it has the best chance
of selling for the best balance of return against expenditure, a very complex concept that escapes
those just looking at maximum sales numbers.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Endura is after a different group of buyers to former Territory owners but yeah, the 7-seat Edge would help..

I don't buy in to the whole 'lack of 7 seats' being an issue. there are many TX territories out there, and TS and Titanium were not given a choice, or were rarely optioned as a 5 seat. They were sold in 7 seat as standard configuration. There would be a large percentage of these vehicles that were not bought 'because' they were 7 seat, but due to the other improvements over the base model..

I have a 7 seat, because I wanted a TS. not because I wanted 7 seats. I rarely see a territory utilising the third row. I have used mine about 3 times in the 18months I've owned it, simply because that option is there, but my next car almost certainly won't have it.


I don't see the 2T towing limit being an issue either. I actually see this as a good thing given the size (and more importantly weight) of the car. I'd imagine the rear axle load limit wouldn't take much more than that anyway. People love to quote the 2.7T limit of the territory, but the fact is, if you want to legally tow 2.7T with a territory, you pretty much can't have anything in the territory except fuel and driver.

The limited fuel choice would be the biggest factor I can see, although the stigma of diesel being a dirty fuel is not such an issue anymore with the sheer volume of diesel cars out there and diesel pumps being part of the normal service station, not the truck filling area.