Best falcon model suitable for a race car?? - Page 3

4Vman · 08-10-2007, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

I concur!

Mines great, weak link I have at the moment is the single rail :/

Big_trev, any pics of that racing ute?

I wouldnt run a singlerail either!

You'd get a few good laps before it went bang too...

GTENVY · 08-10-2007, 10:51 PM

XD it is then. Sounds like the goodies I need are top loader and a 9 inch. might be hard to find a factory 351 though down here in tassie. do you guys think going with a factory 302 clevo XD then replace the crankshaft or do you think I would be better just trying to find a XD with factory 351??

Thanks heaps guys, this is helping stacks!!!

Trevor 57 · 09-10-2007, 07:22 AM

Unreal, I must be doing something wrong then, I have had both the XD Ute and the XE on a race track in full race conditions for about 3 and a bit years and the BW rear end and the single rail have both worked faultlessly, must talk to someone about this.

:

The only difference in the BW rear end is a mini-spool.

Trevor 57 · 09-10-2007, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

Big_trev, any pics of that racing ute?

Here is 2 from last years 6 Hour event at Winton (and no iussues with the diff or gearbox -

)

**Polyal** · 09-10-2007, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big_Trev

Here is 2 from last years 6 Hour event at Winton (and no iussues with the diff or gearbox -

)

Just a quick one, GTENVY might want to know aswell. What did you do for the cooling system? Dont tell me thats stock aswell.

Trevor 57 · 09-10-2007, 11:29 AM

Nearly stock, except for a 4 core radiator and a hi-flow thermostat, oh and changed the 4 blade steel fan for a 8 blade plastic one.

LTD351T · 09-10-2007, 01:11 PM

lets not forget if your keen on IRS the AU rear end assembly will fit into the XE without major work, but it will add some weight, at least its at the rear tho.

mattcosa · 09-10-2007, 02:53 PM

If your looking for a newish V8 Falcon (BOSS) to race in, you shouldn't be.

Their not an ideal race engine. Not enough RPMs. Its a truck motor.

The LS series from GM (unfortunately a commodore) would be much better suited for racing with.

Either than; or a Falcon Turbo.

4Vman · 09-10-2007, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattcosa

If your looking for a newish V8 Falcon (BOSS) to race in, you shouldn't be.

Their not an ideal race engine. Not enough RPMs. Its a truck motor.

The LS series from GM (unfortunately a commodore) would be much better suited for racing with.

Either than; or a Falcon Turbo.

Did you read his original post?

mattcosa · 09-10-2007, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Did you read his original post?

Oups. Missed the NOT.

xbgs351 · 09-10-2007, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big_Trev

Nearly stock, except for a 4 core radiator and a hi-flow thermostat, oh and changed the 4 blade steel fan for a 8 blade plastic one.

No oil cooler?

Trevor 57 · 10-10-2007, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xbgs351

No oil cooler?

Only on the power steering line

irsa76 · 10-10-2007, 08:46 PM

If you want to step up later and get sponsors you may find it better to have either an older classic, or a later model car. By classic I mean XW/XY since EVERYONE will assume it's a GTHO. Plus there has long been talk at CAMS to introduce age restrictions on cars competeing in major events, have a look at the rule changes for Targa. People who just dumped $250,000.00 into an EVO don't like it when a 30+ year old bogan special blows them off the road!

RSgerry · 10-10-2007, 09:59 PM

as has already been said, find out which class and what sort of events you want to compete in. check the rules and regs and take it from there. do you want to play in historics or more modern events? also, buy the best car you can afford as money will need to be spent on it. even competing at an entry level costs money. and then buy whatever model you fancy. XA coupe, XD, AU XR, whatever you like the most. dont buy something to please anyone else. it is your car, buy the one that makes YOUR heart beat a bit faster.

GTENVY · 13-10-2007, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSgerry

as has already been said, find out which class and what sort of events you want to compete in. check the rules and regs and take it from there. do you want to play in historics or more modern events? also, buy the best car you can afford as money will need to be spent on it. even competing at an entry level costs money. and then buy whatever model you fancy. XA coupe, XD, AU XR, whatever you like the most. dont buy something to please anyone else. it is your car, buy the one that makes YOUR heart beat a bit faster.

Just to clear things up. I do not particularly care the model I would end up racing, I am purely asking for advice on which model would be the best staring point. I was considering XD/XE or EB-EL models, I am interested in the fact no one has really mentioned pre XD...
I am just looking for the best starting point

Thanks for your advice though

:

4bbl · 13-10-2007, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTENVY

Just to clear things up. I do not particularly care the model I would end up racing, I am purely asking for advice on which model would be the best staring point. I was considering XD/XE or EB-EL models, I am interested in the fact no one has really mentioned pre XD...
I am just looking for the best starting point

Thanks for your advice though

:

pre xd maybe expensive with no real gains in performance or reliability, probably all down to personal choice, i am doing an xb coupe for the same thing.

:

1600GT · 13-10-2007, 11:45 PM

we run this in club sprints...

its an original XE 351 cop car from NSW.
we did the 82 red roo theme for a laugh.
on a whole, it's a pretty quick car for what it is, is relatively cheap to run (and fix...), and sounds great (but what cleveland at 6000 doesnt??), but it has draw backs too.

brings me to my advice... go the XD.
has the simpliest setup under it, and is lighter than the earlier models.
as said earlier, the XD rear end is easier to get good results from when compared to the XE.
sure, the XE idea of trailing arms and watts link is great, but Ford's execution of it wasnt. the prob is, as said earlier also, the short top arms making the car try to swap ends on turns, due to the short top arm pulling the diff forward and making the wheel turn in on bump, and pushing the diff back and making the wheel turn out on droop. dick johnson commented that the XE never felt like it knew what it was doing in turns, and would be understeering one moment and then oversteering the next, with no warning of the change, and it would be different each and every time u went around the same turn... not fun at all in my book.
those on here that say otherwise are either a: kidding themselves, b: have never driven one or c: (and probably the most likely) have no real knowledge of RACE CAR suspension design and operation.
yes, it can be fixed, as johnson did, but it's a very costly exercise that will basicly become a V8 supercar arrangement in the end, meaning in some cases i've seen, the rear is then far better than the front, so a major re-think and lots of money is put into the front suspension to make it all compatible... $$$$$$$$$$...
in reality, the XD is far simplier, and 99% of racers have had some experience with a leaf spring setup at one time, so advice is readily available too.

our car was an FMX auto originally, and is now a top loader manual.
no probs there.
the diff is the original BW 4 pinion LSD. these are plenty tuff enuf, desipe what some say. they have 4 side gears in the centre, instead of the normal 2, and the axles are bigger in diameter and 28 spline, as opposed to the normal 25. i've been told they are the same as 9" 28 spline axles, but haven't checked it for myself, so i cant confirm.
but if the 9" is what u want, then an XD will cost waaaaaaaay less to put one in than an XE.

ohh, and it was commented earlier about front suspension parts from the later XF/XG/XH's... the XF/XG stuff is the same diamensions as the XD/XE, but not as strong, as they didnt have the weight of a cast iron cleveland to deal with.
and the XH is totally different coz it used the EF/EL type front end, as it's completely different. even the shock towers in the engine bay are different!!

hope this helps.

Trevor 57 · 14-10-2007, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1600GT

those on here that say otherwise are either a: kidding themselves, b: have never driven one or c: (and probably the most likely) have no real knowledge of RACE CAR suspension design and operation.

This is obviously a crack at me.

I can tell you one thing buddy, by looking at the body roll on that, you don't have much of a clue either - have a nice day. :evil3:

BTW, this is my XE going around turn 2 at Winton - note the body roll!!!!!

Rev28K · 14-10-2007, 01:13 PM

Hi Trev

What times are you running up at Winton now?

I was up there for a fun day when you where running the ute and it probably wasn’t at it’s best in the corners, it was probably doing around 1:45’s-1:48’s.

What’s the best that the sedan has done?

outback_ute · 14-10-2007, 07:07 PM

Trev I don't think Brett is having a crack at you. Seeing as your car is staying so flat the issue of roll steer would be minimised, however I dare say the suspension would be too stiff for road events with non racetrack-perfect road surfaces.

GTEnvy, re pre-XD models the cars are more likely to have rust (a real weakness of the XA-XC), and are heavier. The XY & earlier cars are a lot more scarce & expensive to find a good shell to start with. As mentioned above, sponsorship opportunities may be better. All models have the same suspension setup (XE rear excepted obviously).

1600GT · 14-10-2007, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outback_ute

Trev I don't think Brett is having a crack at you.

many thanks john.
good to see that someone understands what i'm on about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big_Trev

This is obviously a crack at me.

no, not at all, before now.
i was refering to the various others that have posted in this thread with simple comments like "go an XE" with no further input due to their obvious lack of experience. i already knew from reading your previous posts that you do have experience with XE's, and your advice is good.
my advice is brought about by ease of development between XD and XE arrangements, and nothing more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big_Trev

I can tell you one thing buddy, by looking at the body roll on that, you don't have much of a clue either

really... buddy.
plenty on here know me, and my experience with MANY different race cars, including the 3 in our current collection, especially my 2 litre sports sedan that has a nasty habit of showing up cars that have twice the power and twice the size... like XD and XE Falcons. funny thing is that 75% of it is hand built, by ME, so i'm amazed it's does pretty well considering i "don't have a clue".
how much of your XE could you say that about??
ohh, and BTW, our XE is a 'fill in' car while the 3rd in the collection (an all out sports car of well known origins, now weighing 680kg and having 380hp...) is completed and tested, so development on the XE has been a bare minimum.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big_Trev

BTW, this is my XE going around turn 2 at Winton - note the body roll!!!!!

interesting that your pic is exiting a positive cambered corner, where i'd expect it to be flat, while ours is at the apex of turn 3 at sandown... a negative cambered corner, where i'd expect to see body roll.
but maybe i "dont have a clue"...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big_Trev

have a nice day.

i just have.

4Vman · 16-10-2007, 07:56 PM

This XD has most of the things you're looking for including an XE Kit:

http://www.fordmusclecars.com.au/vie...sp?itemID=1068

sleekism · 17-10-2007, 07:59 AM

1970 Plymouth Roadrunner with a 426 Hemi

1969 BOSS 302 Mustang

1969 BOSS 429 Mustang

Plymouth Barracuda 440 big block

1988 Ford Laser TX3 with 514ci Ford Racing crate engine

Well I'm out of ideas lol.............

scj429 · 05-02-2008, 10:44 PM

How about a Escort RS2000? A cheap fun race car to start out in. I would suggest the best looking Ford ever made, the XC Hardtop however the front bumper weighs more than the Escort.

4V man, why a LSD Nine Inch? A spool is the only way to go, IMHO

**Mont5.0** · 06-02-2008, 01:36 AM

El Xr8

graham7773 · 13-04-2008, 04:32 PM

Gtho Phase 111

EDXRSW · 13-04-2008, 10:03 PM

what about a EA-EB saloon car, there fairly cheap and already set up and go unbelievably well !!!

nb_351 · 13-04-2008, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

This XD has most of the things you're looking for including an XE Kit:

http://www.fordmusclecars.com.au/vie...sp?itemID=1068

that doesnt look as tough as it could for some reason...
but back on topic go the xd/xe, of course im biased though lol
gut the interior, give it some 4vs etc, you should have a pretty quick thing on your hands...