Who'd buy a Commodore?? - Page 3

Gadgetman · 31-10-2008, 09:50 AM

Lets not forget that if it wasnt for the competition. Both Ford & Holden would not have had to raise the bar over the years.

woteva · 31-10-2008, 10:09 AM

I would buy a Commodore, in fact I did. Would I buy a 6 cylinder Commodore? Not in this life time! Would I buy a Falcon? Yes I would. There doesn't seem to be much difference to the two imo opinion. Ford have the better 6 whilst Holden have the better V8. Whilst I love my Commy, I prefer Fords. imo Holden have 1 good car in their line up and Everything in Ford's line up appeals to me. Fiesta, Focus, Mondeo are all better cars to anything Holden have I think.

Wally · 31-10-2008, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkr

...............
I am yet to meet a commodore driver that knows what he's talking about. It's always pod filters broooo for 500hp!
...........

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swordsman88

You make an excellent point Darkr..... While it is generalisation of course to say that all holden or all ford drivers do one thing it is true that many, if not most holden drivers are totally uninformed about the basics of their own cars.

I hope you guys are joking. You really think that Ford drivers have a monopoly on automotive knowledge? Get over to the technical forums and count the number of members who actually know what they are talking about.

Swordsman88 · 31-10-2008, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wally

I hope you guys are joking. You really think that Ford drivers have a monopoly on automotive knowledge? Get over to the technical forums and count the number of members who actually know what they are talking about.

No, i aint joking unfortunately. I am sure there are many holden guys that know what they are on about, just as i know some ford fans that don't know much about cars generally at all. BUT, i was pointing out that in my experience alot of holden guys, in fact most of the 'fanboys' i know that support GMH, are very misguided. They either don't understand waht their own car has under the engine bay or don't want to know...'caus holdens go better so who cares. They also think a pod filter gives them 20 rwkw....ignoring the fact that even with this mythical power gain their commie makes less than a stock falcon I6 of the same period....

My point was more about having an open mind. If you dont' know what a car has going for it then you shoudn't go around rubbishing it, particularly when your own car is far from the crowning glory of aussue motoring holden would have to you think it is (if its even a holden, usually daewoos these days anyway!!!!). Put it this way, of the holden fans i know 80% just assume fords are crap, of any type, of any age. Most have no reason for this assumption at all, except it isn't a holden. Of the ford guys on this forum, i would say most would at least peruse a spec sheet and drive a commodore before righting it off as crap, and this includes those that wouldn't buy a Holden for all the tea in china.....

woteva · 31-10-2008, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swordsman88

No, i aint joking unfortunately. I am sure there are many holden guys that know what they are on about, just as i know some ford fans that don't know much about cars generally at all. BUT, i was pointing out that in my experience alot of holden guys, in fact most of the 'fanboys' i know that support GMH, are very misguided. They either don't understand waht their own car has under the engine bay or don't want to know...'caus holdens go better so who cares. They also think a pod filter gives them 20 rwkw....ignoring the fact that even with this mythical power gain their commie makes less than a stock falcon I6 of the same period....

My point was more about having an open mind. If you dont' know what a car has going for it then you shoudn't go around rubbishing it, particularly when your own car is far from the crowning glory of aussue motoring holden would have to you think it is (if its even a holden, usually daewoos these days anyway!!!!). Put it this way, of the holden fans i know 80% just assume fords are crap, of any type, of any age. Most have no reason for this assumption at all, except it isn't a holden. Of the ford guys on this forum, i would say most would at least peruse a spec sheet and drive a commodore before righting it off as crap, and this includes those that wouldn't buy a Holden for all the tea in china.....

That's funny because I think there are more one eyed fanboys on this site than there are on the Holden forums I frequent. The amount of Holden/Holden related threads on this site is high. I spend more time on Holden forums than I do on Ford forums so it surprises me that I don't come across more Holden fanboys then Ford fanboys.

Swordsman88 · 31-10-2008, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woteva

That's funny because I think there are more one eyed fanboys on this site than there are on the Holden forums I frequent. The amount of Holden/Holden related threads on this site is high. I spend more time on Holden forums than I do on Ford forums so it surprises me that I don't come across more Holden fanboys then Ford fanboys.

it might also depend on who you are associated with....maybe i need to find new people to hang around!!!!! My comments come from my experience, and no doubt both sides have one eyed members for sure. Maybe i should spend some more time around holden forums....oh wait....maybe i won't

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sleekism · 31-10-2008, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gobes32

I find it amusing Ford manufacture a luxury sedan that does 0 - 100 in the 5 second bracket as well as having all the luxuries you would expect in a premium sedan and still we can't sell the bloody things. Yet Ford worked seven days a week when the EA was being made. With a workforce 4 times larger..........

And that is the issue. The people who grew up around the EA are now the prime market for the FG today and since the EA S1 was poorly built with no performance versions well.....................

The reason the XE and XF sold so well was because the people buying them grew up around the XY's and XA's.

In 10 years time when people like me who grew up aroud the XR6 Turbo and FPV GT are able to buy a new car (or get one as a company car) then the Falcon will dominate but in the meantime it will play second fiddle.

Unfortunately for the moment the EA still affects buyers today as does the AU.

irlewy86 · 31-10-2008, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woteva

That's funny because I think there are more one eyed fanboys on this site than there are on the Holden forums I frequent. The amount of Holden/Holden related threads on this site is high. I spend more time on Holden forums than I do on Ford forums so it surprises me that I don't come across more Holden fanboys then Ford fanboys.

Really, take the time to look around and you'll find more than enough people who'll bag the following Boss engines, Windsor engines, Turbo engines, FG for not looking different enough from BA, BA for having a nasty interior, Territory for looking the same for 5 years like its rivals, AU falcon, E series, X series, Ford service, Ford salesman, Ford warranty and so on and so on.

Their some mechanically inept posters and some one eyed fans.

But this isn't an open door Holden bashing thread, anyone who has driven a VE Omega will understand the OP sentiments. When it comes to comparing it to the XT the Falcon hands the Commodore its backside on a platter.

Wally · 31-10-2008, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swordsman88

................ i was pointing out that in my experience alot of holden guys, in fact most of the 'fanboys' i know that support GMH, are very misguided. They either don't understand waht their own car has under the engine bay or don't want to know...'caus holdens go better so who cares. They also think a pod filter gives them 20 rwkw....ignoring the fact that even with this mythical power gain their commie makes less than a stock falcon I6 of the same period....

.............

Well I don't know your expertise level and if you are qualified to judge, but I'm pretty sure I have read threads in this board where people have made astonishing power improvements from pods filters and the like. I would hazzard a guess I could throw you a few questions about what's under your hood and you would need to do some research for the answer.

Half the fun of getting together with petrol heads is the yarns that are spun. Sure you know it's BS, but the facts are sooo boring. When I was a teenager most of us had a "freak" engine that the factory slipped through now and again.

burnz · 31-10-2008, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleekism

And that is the issue. The people who grew up around the EA are now the prime market for the FG today and since the EA S1 was poorly built with no performance versions well.....................

The reason the XE and XF sold so well was because the people buying them grew up around the XY's and XA's.

In 10 years time when people like me who grew up aroud the XR6 Turbo and FPV GT are able to buy a new car (or get one as a company car) then the Falcon will dominate but in the meantime it will play second fiddle.

Unfortunately for the moment the EA still affects buyers today as does the AU.

and i was one who owned an xp 221 cid, brilliant car.
then owened an xf manuel, burned buy ford once, never again.
my mates owned ea's timing chain problem, they got burned by ford.
now i read ba/bf and terry's have cancer.
and ppl on this site call us holden fellow's dumb, ill informed, niave,.. how many time's must someone hear, be burned, see, a probem by ford.
and ask do i put my hard earned in a brand that doesent give two hoot's..

manxman · 31-10-2008, 04:31 PM

My '88 240 Volvo Estate put both Holden & Ford to shame for standard features & ride when it was new, and only cost so much more because of tarrifs to stop it from overrunning the local industry. In Sweden they're regarded as taxi quality. It may have been a rice pudding motor, but it was a better car for most other things, & the EFI was a decent system. The local product has historically been shamefully behind the imported ones for features and fuel mileage, and it wasn't that long ago one of the local 6's base models was more expensive than the other, and it didn't have aircon. That was an insult to the buyers! Anyway, most new sales are for fleet and company use now, aren't they? Joe Average can't keep affording them.

irlewy86 · 31-10-2008, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

and i was one who owned an xp 221 cid, brilliant car.
then owened an xf manuel, burned buy ford once, never again.
my mates owned ea's timing chain problem, they got burned by ford.
now i read ba/bf and terry's have cancer.
and ppl on this site call us holden fellow's dumb, ill informed, niave,.. how many time's must someone hear, be burned, see, a probem by ford.
and ask do i put my hard earned in a brand that doesent give two hoot's..

Well I've never been burnt by Ford. I work for a company that has owned at least 30 Falcons in the last 5 years and had only 1 of the so called "chronic issues" arise. However I have been severly burnt by Toyota twice. If you buy on historical performance you'd probably be in love with your Malvern Star by now.

XW_GS · 31-10-2008, 04:37 PM

look, im a Ford person, but i wont say that im a Holden person (maybe im a Closet Holden dude) but io doubt it, i have had a VC VK VN VT now a VY and would love the new Commy, why??? For starters, the Ford body shape of the rear of wagon is very very reminiscent of the XD model and onwards, very square very out of date... i swore that when the BA came out id get a BA wagon, then looked at the back then said no... compared to the Commodore of the same era?? commodore beat it easily in looks.. and please understand this is only my opinion!!

A few readers up, someone said that the FG is an ugly car like the AU, again thats HIS opinion, i think Ford did well with this body shape and I do like it, i hope the new wagons (if they ever build one) doesnt resemble the XD to BF wagon rears' looks..

Wally · 31-10-2008, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

............
then owened an xf manuel, burned buy ford once, never again.
............

That's what you get for buying a knockoff of the Ford Granada. :evil3:

burnz · 31-10-2008, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wally

That's what you get for buying a knockoff of the Ford Granada. :evil3:

nothing wrong with the motor in those thing but the cronic gearbox failure "5speed"
and the clutch cable coming threw the firewall, and everything was an afterthough, even the gearbox the car was design for an auto.

EgoFG · 31-10-2008, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XWGS351

For starters, the Ford body shape of the rear of wagon is very very reminiscent of the XD model and onwards, very square very out of date... i swore that when the BA came out id get a BA wagon, then looked at the back then said no... compared to the Commodore of the same era?? commodore beat it easily in looks.. and please understand this is only my opinion!!

Interesting opinion

I have been heard to comment on the elevated roof wagon from holden that competed with the BA - "Someone ran in to the back of that commy with a tarago, and could not get it off"

**DJM83** · 31-10-2008, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

and i was one who owned an xp 221 cid, brilliant car.
then owened an xf manuel, burned buy ford once, never again.
my mates owned ea's timing chain problem, they got burned by ford.
now i read ba/bf and terry's have cancer.
and ppl on this site call us holden fellow's dumb, ill informed, niave,.. how many time's must someone hear, be burned, see, a probem by ford.
and ask do i put my hard earned in a brand that doesent give two hoot's..

Theres always 2 sides to every coin mate, im sure there are people out there that have been burned my GM, Ford, Toyota etc

V3RSAC3 · 31-10-2008, 06:32 PM

I wouldnt buy a VE ... but drive acouple of VZ's and I really like them! So, yeah, I'd buy a commodore (although these are a Calais and Clubsport)

Airmon · 31-10-2008, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

and ppl on this site call us holden fellow's dumb, ill informed, niave,.. how many time's must someone hear, be burned, see, a probem by ford.
and ask do i put my hard earned in a brand that doesent give two hoot's..

Well you spend a fair bit of time on a Ford site and are clearly Pro-Holden so I'm sure there are plenty on here going

:

burnz · 31-10-2008, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 51RTE

Theres always 2 sides to every coin mate, im sure there are people out there that have been burned my GM, Ford, Toyota etc

thats very true, possably why they buy a different brand, but should they be called illinformed, mindless sheep because of it.

MITCHAY · 31-10-2008, 08:40 PM

My mum has a VE SV6. It ain't great but it's not a heap of crap. Have you guys ever thought that the people who buy Commodores just like them or don't really care all too much about cars?

It's all well and good to talk about torque curves, power bands, smooth gearboxes and such but honestly it's really only us enthusiasts who actually give a crap and we are the minority here.

Bucknaked · 31-10-2008, 08:52 PM

Mate traded his BF Tornado for a VE Maloo. FG didn't cut the mustard and he couldn't get a decent deal out of FPV. HSV were only too happy to take his coin.

futura888 · 31-10-2008, 08:57 PM

Hey guy's,i drove a ve ssv auto today for the first time,and for the first time,this was a commodore i actually didn't mind it,as with all car's they have their pro's and con's...Here is a unbiased view-

The first thing i noticed was how roomy it was inside,it feels much bigger than the falcon(ba/bf's do a good job of making the car feel smaller than it really is).

As far as performance goes,these holden/chev v8's go hard,it pulls from idle up to the limiter hard but it has a smooth power delivery...The same can't be said for the transmission,this thing still doesn't know what to do,although it is slightly better than previous models....I reckon one of these 6.0l ve's would be awesome with the zf trans.

The handling is good,firm and controlled,but when you start to push it into corners,it understeer's alot...Might have something to do with the big v8 in the front of it,it does handle alot better than the ford v8 powered cars,i reckon it's because the boss motor in the ford sits slightly in front of the axle which makes it nose dive.

A couple of things i didn't like were the interior-handbrake(blended into the centre console...looks pretty tacky) and the blocky hard steering wheel,it just didn't feel nice at all and the whole feel of the interior feels cheap.

Nice car...But hardly the euro beater wheels mag has made it out to be...I can see why loyal holden people would buy it,it's alot better than the vz's, but the bf's and fg's still feel more refined...It's just the boss v8's just can't keep up.

The turbo's on the other hand

:

MITCHAY · 31-10-2008, 09:05 PM

Yeah the VE is huge, plenty of room inside them to move and I noticed that immediately as a big difference to our previous VT.

Ryan · 31-10-2008, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swordsman88

For some reason holden guys 'just believe'....its a faith. If it a holden it is automatically better than a ford etc. Ford owners i know are pretty pragmatic and logical folk...they love Ford but they aint stupid. If ford builds a dud they know it and (very vocally, maybe too vocally) tell anyone. If someone else makes a good car (faster, better handler, looks better etc.) they will acknowledge it. Good luck getting a holden fan to do the same thing!!! .

I'm a Commodore owner (VL), and I don't know how many times I've been honest about Commodores' shortcomings. Infact if anyone told me the Holden V6 is the best motor in the world I would laugh, and tell them to F off.

Alot of people probably look at me as a typical VL owner that does burnouts, tilts my hat sideways, listens to my subwoofer etc, but I'm really not like that at all.

I'll admit I can be sometimes Holden biased, but I'll always achkowledge something good Ford does, well any car maker really.

That's why I'm a member of multiple car forums instead of just Holden ones, so I can gather more knowledge. Most people are probably put off because I drive a VL, but like I say you shouldn't judge a book by its cover.

swapper · 01-11-2008, 07:57 AM

in my experience i find this forum much more biased than the Holden one i also read (LS1.com.au). at least they are able to respect ford cars.....where as here all i read is crap like "obviously the ford is a much better car i cant see how anyone would buy a commodore"

I only find a minority of guys here that actually respect Holden's and understand why they sell.

anyway the simple point is Ford need Holden and vise versa, they share the same supplier base, if 1 goes down the other will be in the S***

Swordsman88 · 01-11-2008, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swapper

I only find a minority of guys here that actually respect Holden's and understand why they sell.

I think we are starting to drift off topic people!!! LOL! The OP was talking about his experience in a VE and how this compares to falcons.....as in 'why would you buy the commodore when you have something so much better available etc.'

The point you make about 'why they sell', well that is the issue isn't it. My point is that Holden sell many cars on their name and history in this country. Ford doesn't get much of a free kick in this area, so have to sell on their (pretty poor) marketing or actual product.

I'd like to think that i am impartial enough to consider a range of cars to be as good, even better than a Ford. But given most objective people and widespread critical reviews note that the FG 6pot cars wipe the floor with VE 6pots so badly you have to ask the question the OP did.....how do they sell them????

futura888 · 01-11-2008, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swordsman88

I'd like to think that i am impartial enough to consider a range of cars to be as good, even better than a Ford. But given most objective people and widespread critical reviews note that the FG 6pot cars wipe the floor with VE 6pots so badly you have to ask the question the OP did.....how do they sell them????

My point is that people are still buying the ve,because it took such a huge step over the previous models...And those that are holden loyal have noticed this and have gone out and traded and bought accordingly.

Just like when the ba came out,they sold like hot cake's compared to the au,then when the more refined bf mk1 and mk2's came out,they didn't make the huge dent in the market that ford were hoping for,there wasn't a big enough difference for buyer's between the ba and the bf,so people didn't upgrade.

Go out and drive a vz first and then drive the ve,then you will see why they sell.

swapper · 01-11-2008, 09:38 PM

Quote:

'why would you buy the commodore when you have something so much better available etc.'

this is my point.....im sorry its not that black and white!

yes the falcon is better in some ways.....but in some ways the commodore is better!

747jet · 02-11-2008, 01:49 AM

hi i work for holden dealer and the ve range that holden have made the cars have the same problems that when they 1st car came off the line back in 2006 and if holden cant fix there cars. how can the dealer fix it but i got to say the cars with the v8 engine have a lot of speed but the car does not handle the falcon is a much better handleing car i have a ba f6 and ive turned a lot of holden boys to the ford way of life