Calais Gets Blown Away - Page 3

**Polyal** · 14-10-2009, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bfiipursuit

Supply is the other issue.. Ford cant get enough metal to build enough cars before christmas due to orders / demand for companies wanting to get cars delievered before DEC 30 to get the residual of the investment allowance tax deductions....

Ford ran out of cars in June because of the Investment allowance and has sold all its XR ute build for the rest of the year.

Is that a fact? If so its disgusting. How many times have we heard that Ford are having a supply issue. Who the heck is doing their forecasting, pessimistic bunch aren't they.

I can understand not wanting to have surplus but come on!

ltd · 14-10-2009, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibrox90

I ponder the same points. I happen to LOVE the Calais I think its a gorgeous car.

I'm not keen on Turbos myself, I think mainly due to lack of experience with them.

I think im many ways ford have somewhat rolled over when competing with Holden's V8. Refusing to fight and to be honest I don't think ford can.

For the next few years I can't see Holden slipping up. I think Ford really are goin to have to slug it out punch for punch with holden. Until they do so ford will always be 2nd best regardless of how good and/or better the ford prduct is.

(Please shoosh if im about to be sledged, you have no idea how little I care)

I'd like to think that there is a few points to ponder in there although I'm sure afew people will come out the woodwork and present facts on sales and power figures and whatever else. But IMO facts can be presented to make it look however you want.

At the end of the day it doesn't matter how many studies you do or how many tests there are its always going to boil down to a subjective opinion which cannot in anyway be objective.

Sorry, but V8's aren't as desirable with thanks to higher oil prices in recent years and "global warmenenenenenenening". Ford don't need to fight V8's against Holden, they already have the crown as the fastest production car in the market. Even Holden V8 boys respect the I6T, and we can all be subjective in our own opinions.

Personally, I think the interiors of the BA were bland; especially when compared to the VE, and in retrospect the exteriors whilst better than the AU were also a little on the bland side. This is further evidenced by the number of people who optioned up stripes, decals and other things to make the cars look better.
Now, the VE HSV's looked muscular and purposeful because they were bold, new and exciting. However, the latest incarnations of the commodore are nothing more than old stock with either fairy lights or rice attached to them. This is why they have been panned. In 2007 the VE calais looked great, but in 2009 it looks.... well...... old.
Remember how much the Holden boys bagged the BF and no visual distinction over the BA MKII? Well, Ford didn't win any styling awards then either, and was regularly panned by motoring bodies as being nothing new and constantly referred to as "looking dated". Now Holden is paying the price for their folly and as such will be deservedly referred to as looking dated as well. The fact the interiors were untouched only hastens their demise as being fresh and exciting. In other words, when they came out they were great, but now the competition has moved on and the humble VE and VE2 looks dated.

Smoke Pursuit · 14-10-2009, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

Is that a fact? If so its disgusting. How many times have we heard that Ford are having a supply issue. Who the heck is doing their forecasting, pessimistic bunch aren't they.

I can understand not wanting to have surplus but come on!

Yes thats what has come from the inside.. Cant get enough metal to fabricate the body work as Ford has a contract and only get supplied a certain amount that its locked in for, this disadvantages them considerably. Back in June 2009 Ford's stock levels were the lowest they have been for many years, and they had the potential to sell alot more cars while holden had stock sitting everywhere (even 08 plate still) and could fill alot of small business orders to take advantage of the 50% investment allowance. Holden build more cars every month and still manage to runout occasionally on specific models like SV6 utes and Calais V Sedans.

**Luke Plaizier** · 14-10-2009, 04:56 PM

I don't know if it's just me, but the number of times CarAdvice put the Falcon up for a win in comparisons seems out of kilter with other comparisons in local rags.

So it's either I've become accustomed to the mainstream rags always bagging Ford and Caradvice are the only well balanced reviewer or - dare I say it - CarAdvice is for Ford what Wheels and www.drive.com.au are for Holden.....

Lukeyson

CAMS290 · 14-10-2009, 05:04 PM

How credible is the 0-100 time of 4.97 ?
That is unbelievable !

Rodp · 14-10-2009, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samsy351

Ford need to get on the front foot and counter Holdens new SIDI advertisements straight away.

Make the tv add clear and simple...

Bathurst test with G6 v SIDI - Ford is more economical

The latest $40-$60k test - Ford wins comparison

and finish with the slogan

Holden .....Dont Believe The Hype !

The advertising method that turns me off the most is denigrating the opposition in an attempt to make your product look better. If your product and marketing can't stand on its own two feet then it's not going to make an impact on me.

Gobes32 · 14-10-2009, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

Is that a fact? If so its disgusting. How many times have we heard that Ford are having a supply issue. Who the heck is doing their forecasting, pessimistic bunch aren't they.

I can understand not wanting to have surplus but come on!

It is much better to have a factory running at 100% capacity, profitable and missing out on a small amount of sales rather than a factory where one shift work one week and the other shift work the next week and you cannot discount your cars fast enough to get them out the door.........

gcg2503 · 14-10-2009, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CAMS290

How credible is the 0-100 time of 4.97 ?
That is unbelievable !

Wheels got 5.1 seconds with one passenger and at least half a tank of fuel i believe

ltd · 14-10-2009, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodp

The advertising method that turns me off the most is denigrating the opposition in an attempt to make your product look better. If your product and marketing can't stand on its own two feet then it's not going to make an impact on me.

I'd agree with you on that.
The worst thing anyone can do is to have a direct swipe at your competition, it's just so cheap, tacky and nasty - definately not the image that ford aus want to perpetrate. Holden tried this with the craptiva by directly comparing it to territory and it was and is still disgusting, ford should not do it.

The trick for ford and a clever marketer is to mention the bathurst event, even show footage of it showing the other cars in the comparo but not naming them, and then revere to a catch line like: "Who surprisingly won the best fuel efficiency in a independently run fuel assessment comparison? Ford of course". Of course, tart it up with better wording and footage and show the accomplishment; just don't name anyone. Atleast that way it makes people curious enough to want to find out what it's about.

Sprint XR8 · 14-10-2009, 06:13 PM

Ford should start using the "Drive One" tagline currently used in the states, a local version of this ad would work well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nT95tmfIGBc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyWZUOmDd9w

Swordsman88 · 14-10-2009, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltd

I'd agree with you on that.
The worst thing anyone can do is to have a direct swipe at your competition, it's just so cheap, tacky and nasty - definately not the image that ford aus want to perpetrate. Holden tried this with the craptiva by directly comparing it to territory and it was and is still disgusting, ford should not do it.

The trick for ford and a clever marketer is to mention the bathurst event, even show footage of it showing the other cars in the comparo but not naming them, and then revere to a catch line like: "Who surprisingly won the best fuel efficiency in a independently run fuel assessment comparison? Ford of course". Of course, tart it up with better wording and footage and show the accomplishment; just don't name anyone. Atleast that way it makes people curious enough to want to find out what it's about.

Completely agree as well LTD. I am not a fan of that method of avertising, based in fact or otherwise. Of all the 'recent' Ford Of Course advetising the Focus one is the least impressive for me because it does directly attack the corolla. Sure it is a bit better executed than some of the rivals advertisements but i still think it is less impressive than some of the others (e.g. the very smart Mondeo ad...).

I think Ford should respond somehow, and work in some quotes from recent reviews. If Holden can spin rubbish about doing 900km on the highway and show a mondeo in the shot then the ford laywers should be able to work out something too. Particularly if they don't even name the Holden directly in the ad (something along the lines of 'despite the claims of our rivals, which car continues to garner critical aclaim, including excellent fuel efficiency in the real world? Ford of course....')

Show a holden commodore in the background....hell even show the SIDI badges in the shot. That should be clear enough....

Yellow_Festiva · 14-10-2009, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bfiipursuit

I think this test was a bit bias in the fact that they used a G6ET apposed to a G6E?? Fair enough if it was in comparison to the Calais V V8 for example, but throwing a turbo charged car with lots of wow factor in the ring makes it hard for the competitors to shine...

The turbo was chosen due to the fact it was the highest model available within the price constraint.

This would mean that the V8 is priced above 60 grand.

More than outright performance was needed to win first place, the fact that the V6 Calais is almost the same price as the turbo means that either the Calais is over priced or the turbo is under priced. (I personally believe that the G6ET is very competitively priced, looking at what you get for the money).

The G6E is a whole 8 grand less. This may have given the G6E MORE points (had it been used) as the performance of the NA car is still superb and the rest of the overall package is much the same.

samsy351 · 14-10-2009, 07:12 PM

Well u can say that u dont like the type of marketing I suggested... but the fact is the softly softly approach Ford use now just doesnt work ! Plain and simple.
Its not like Ford are telling porky pies, they would just be stating fact. Holden claim they have better fuel efficiency but the tests prove otherwise. Whats wrong with Ford stating facts and showing that what Holden is saying is wrong.

Keep it honest and simple ...straight to the point.....pussy footing around gets you nowhere.
Do u wanna sell more cars than Holden or not ?, cause the way it is now , Holden is winning. People take notice of Holdens add style because it is simple and straight to the point.
A big concern in the current economic climate for most average Aussie families is money. Now people wanna hear that the new car they are gonna buy is gonna be cheap to run , they are not as concerned as to whether their dog can change a friggen cd with a bark! - alaa Mondeo. Sure those features are great and worth pointing out , but u must get the customers into the yard in the 1st place... and by telling them via tv that the new Ford is cheaper to run than its competitors u are already on a winner. Once youve done that then u can win them over with Fords great features to go on top of the better economy.

4Vman · 14-10-2009, 07:20 PM

A great and well justified result for the G6ET, i Wonder what wally thinks of his beloved Calais V's showing....

:

vztrt · 14-10-2009, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

Is that a fact? If so its disgusting. How many times have we heard that Ford are having a supply issue. Who the heck is doing their forecasting, pessimistic bunch aren't they.

I can understand not wanting to have surplus but come on!

They would have wound back because they sales plummeted. Its not like they were doing huge amounts of sales in the first place. Since 06 they have gone through 2 down balances (this was back in 06). You don't just flick a switch and increase your output in manufacturing. Just getting the staffing and timing right in putting together a Falcon takes about a month.

So until higher management ramps up production Ford will have to wear it.

4Vman · 14-10-2009, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

They would have wound back because they sales plummeted. Its not like they were doing huge amounts of sales in the first place. Since 06 they have gone through 2 down balances (this was back in 06). You don't just flick a switch and increase your output in manufacturing. Just getting the staffing and timing right in putting together a Falcon takes about a month.

So until higher management ramps up production Ford will have to wear it.

That's correct, it will take upto 12 weeks to ramp up your production from a supplier perspective let alone factory management and its extremely expensive to turn it off if demand suddenly drops...

vztrt · 14-10-2009, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

That's correct, it will take upto 12 weeks to ramp up your production from a supplier perspective let alone factory management and its extremely expensive to turn it off if demand suddenly drops...

So I'm thinking Ford will wait and see how the demand is going before they start spending money on ramping up. Also they have changed their policy to build cars to demand, as opposed to what they were doing before and having huge amounts of stock lying around.

4Vman · 14-10-2009, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

So I'm thinking Ford will wait and see how the demand is going before they start spending money on ramping up. Also they have changed their policy to build cars to demand, as opposed to what they were doing before and having huge amounts of stock lying around.

Yep, its a smart move, they will look for sustainable long term trends rather than "pipe fill" or reactionary spikes....
Build to order is very smart management in this environment for every model other than the bread and butter high volume combo's..

Wally · 14-10-2009, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILLaViTaR

Good to hear.

Also good to see they use actual tests instead of opinions.
(eg. Cabin noise at 100km/h on sealed roads was 73dB, usually you read "The calias was quieter and is a better car overall".

I must be reading the table incorrectly because it states the Falcon at 73db and the Calais the quitest of all six at 68db. That's a fair amount considering how the maths works for db ratings.

XR6_190 · 14-10-2009, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoupeXB

Ford should start using the "Drive One" tagline currently used in the states, a local version of this ad would work well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nT95tmfIGBc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyWZUOmDd9w

That reminds me of the old "Have you driven a Ford lately?" tagline from about 15 years ago.

Pinch · 14-10-2009, 08:02 PM

Great comparo.

I posted this in the FG v SIDI thread, but thought it worthwhile repeating here:

Rented a just superceded (non SIDI) HFV6 Calais a few weeks ago.

For Holden's sake hopefully it was a just an example of how thrashed rental cars can get (but only had 9K on odo). After reading some other reviews, I think this just may be the car. For shame. I remember a VL Calais being better.

Fuel economy was woeful (driving VERY carefully with my wife - its a long story - see The Bar.). I was running E10 (like the person who had it before me probably did), but even on cost v distance I have never spent that much in any car per km. Including my NC (except when towing). I constantly get low 9's per 100k in the NC with climate on. Couldn't get anywhere near than in the Calais, the margin being more than would be explained by using E10. Plus I might not have either. The previous renter may have used normal.

The A5 gearbox was hands down the worst I have ever used. In any car. Ever. The sequential function delay in changing was seriously measured in whole seconds, then snapped a change like you did a 4 to 1 instead of 3 in a H manual. It was SO bad it could not be used. Not with my wife in the car anyway, and even if she wasn't - why the hell would you bother. And it rolled back on hills, markedly. A manual Forester rolls back on hills less. Don't stop right up the back of a VE 5 speed in traffic on hills!

Engine noise into the cabin (base Calais here, not V) was far much too much for any luxury oriented car, AND way louder than even my NC. Talk about progress??? Wind noise was less though, and the actual note of the engine wasn't that bad, but seriously, in this market it was an absolute joke. Wasn't even styled much different to an Omega. A bit of chrome around the windows, grille moustache and some 17ins and other than that, from the outside, you are in an Omega! Couldn't work out if it had a trip computer either. (Fuel cons worked out from actual pump figures and actual k's).

Would never, ever rent one of these again, let alone buy one. I didn't even pay for this one and would have seriously considered asking for my some of my money back if I had. If they gave me one again I would immediately self downgrade to an Aurion or whatever other car they had. Aurions I have had were much better, especially Prodigy's - even after a few arm wrestles here and there with torque steer. Thrifty has G6E's so definitely going with them next time for a comparo.

The ride on 17's was very jarring. Not Mini Cooper S on Runf Flats jarring, but much worse than anything else in that class I have driven. Again this as not the V, which I would expect to be a bit more sporting at the expense of ride quality. In a pure luxu large car ride quality should be a big draw card, in the Calais it is anything but. Finally the boot was tiny, no 60/40 rear seat (never has been in the large Holdens). The leather felt nice, but looked like vinyl.

Very dissappointing. Especially since I found out on return they gave me the newer Calais as an 'upgrade' over a BF Fairlane - with a ZF box. Meh.

Swordsman88 · 14-10-2009, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wally

I must be reading the table incorrectly because it states the Falcon at 73db and the Calais the quitest of all six at 68db. That's a fair amount considering how the maths works for db ratings.

Yes there is quite a bit of variance in the noise figures for the 6 cars. The actual article (as opposed to just the table) details some more info on the noise readings esp. on different surfaces.

Good to see you were able to find something positive for the calais out of those numbers wally....

:

GTP-03 · 14-10-2009, 08:06 PM

I didnt realise this thing does the 0-100 in under 5 seconds, what an absolute rocket ship,well done Ford, I was begining to think the new Holden 6s were going to shame our inline 6, cant wait for direct injection lpg turbo to arrive!

Bossxr8 · 14-10-2009, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTP-03

I didnt realise this thing does the 0-100 in under 5 seconds, what an absolute rocket ship,well done Ford, I was begining to think the new Holden 6s were going to shame our inline 6, cant wait for direct injection lpg turbo to arrive!

You'll be waiting a while, because LPG and Turbos won't happen, it will be just the one version of NA LPG.

Gobes32 · 14-10-2009, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wally

I must be reading the table incorrectly because it states the Falcon at 73db and the Calais the quitest of all six at 68db. That's a fair amount considering how the maths works for db ratings.

Yeah, but 73db is still pretty quiet for something with the same acceleration velocity as an F-18 Hornet........

nugget378 · 14-10-2009, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wally

I must be reading the table incorrectly because it states the Falcon at 73db and the Calais the quitest of all six at 68db. That's a fair amount considering how the maths works for db ratings.

Still quieter than an XP wally, even a mysterious never to be seen one..

If there is ever an outbreak of lice around here I'll be sure to call you...

Wally · 14-10-2009, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swordsman88

Yes there is quite a bit of variance in the noise figures for the 6 cars. The actual article (as opposed to just the table) details some more info on the noise readings esp. on different surfaces.

Good to see you were able to find something positive for the calais out of those numbers wally....

:

Always firing arrows from the safety of the group eh.

: I haven't offered any opinion and you still feel it necessary to cause a quarrel. I wouldn't mind the tease if I was allowed to give as good as I get, but that ain't gonna happen is it.

And ponder, for every member you send packing in anger, you deliver one more sale, if not more to the competition. Holden loves you. :togo:

phillyc · 14-10-2009, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samsy351

Well u can say that u dont like the type of marketing I suggested... but the fact is the softly softly approach Ford use now just doesnt work ! Plain and simple.
Its not like Ford are telling porky pies, they would just be stating fact. Holden claim they have better fuel efficiency but the tests prove otherwise. Whats wrong with Ford stating facts and showing that what Holden is saying is wrong.

Keep it honest and simple ...straight to the point.....pussy footing around gets you nowhere.
Do u wanna sell more cars than Holden or not ?, cause the way it is now , Holden is winning. People take notice of Holdens add style because it is simple and straight to the point.
A big concern in the current economic climate for most average Aussie families is money. Now people wanna hear that the new car they are gonna buy is gonna be cheap to run , they are not as concerned as to whether their dog can change a friggen cd with a bark! - alaa Mondeo. Sure those features are great and worth pointing out , but u must get the customers into the yard in the 1st place... and by telling them via tv that the new Ford is cheaper to run than its competitors u are already on a winner. Once youve done that then u can win them over with Fords great features to go on top of the better economy.

I mightn't necessarily like it, but I have emailed Ford on many occasions to actually use it.

Like it or not. Direct comparison advertising works. Especially when you don't have as money to spend and your key competitor's balloney is accepted as fact.

4Vman · 14-10-2009, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wally

Always firing arrows from the safety of the group eh.

: I haven't offered any opinion and you still feel it necessary to cause a quarrel. I wouldn't mind the tease if I was allowed to give as good as I get, but that ain't gonna happen is it.

And ponder, for every member you send packing in anger, you deliver one more sale, if not more to the competition. Holden loves you. :togo:

Anything good to say about the G6ET wally???? was it a fair result?

Wally · 14-10-2009, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nugget378

Still quieter than an XP wally, even a mysterious never to be seen one..

If there is ever an outbreak of lice around here I'll be sure to call you...

Mind transalting what the hel you are trying to say?

If you are implying I don't have the XP, ask around and you'll find a few members who can vouch it's real. I had the build thread removed because of the nonense. The shame is for those genuine members who wanted to know how to put rack 'n pinion in, power boosters, air conditioing, etc. So who lost out here?

Thanks for the lice comment, below the belt and gutter, but funny as hell to bottom feeders.