Welcome to the Australian Ford Forums forum.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and inserts advertising. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features without post based advertising banners. Registration is simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Please Note: All new registrations go through a manual approval queue to keep spammers out. This is checked twice each day so there will be a delay before your registration is activated.

Go Back   Australian Ford Forums > General Topics > The Pub

The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-04-2010, 07:43 PM   #61
4Vman
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
4Vman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 14,654
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobthebilda
Philly, if you lose 400 wagon sales a month (due to end of production), you cannibalise your own market to a certain degree (ie ramping up Mondeo sales), and you are only selling 2500 Falcons in a good month, where exactly do you go and find buyers for an 1100 (2500 now-400 wagons+ 700) Falcons a month. I think the motto "If you build they will come" only works for baseball feilds or Holdens (if you have taxpayer subsidies)
If loosing 400 wagons a month allows them to build an extra 5-600 sedans a month (and without the R+D expense of a FG Wagon) it will allow them to be more aggresive at chasing fleet business....



__________________
335 S/C GT: The new KING of Australian made performance cars..
4Vman is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 07-04-2010, 07:45 PM   #62
jpd80
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
jpd80's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,412
Valued Contributor: For members whose non technical contributions are worthy of recognition. - Issue reason: Thoughtful contributions to our community 
Default

Still some complication there, with LPG sedans and LPG wagons and RWD Territory - all with 4-speed auto.
Unfortunately, that hodge podge of parts stays until early 2011....
jpd80 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 07-04-2010, 07:48 PM   #63
phillyc
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
phillyc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 3,246
Valued Contributor: For members whose non technical contributions are worthy of recognition. - Issue reason: Always factual and beneficial. 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Vman
So ditching the wagon will speed up and un complicate the line to allow them to build more sedans by themselves than the 2 combined?
That is what it was suggested in the interview last week regarding the wagon going...
Quote:
Originally Posted by carpoint
http://www.carpoint.com.au/news/2010...ls-wagon-18779
Burela stated that Ford had been building around 200 wagons per month. He said removing complexity from the Broadmeadows line would help Ford increase its production capacity for ute, sedan and Territory.

"As a result of taking wagon out of the build, it frees up plant to satisfy demand on Falcon sedan, ute and Territory."
Quote:
Originally Posted by caradvice
http://www.caradvice.com.au/62251/fo...tired-by-june/
Mr Burela says the demise of the Falcon wagon will allow more capacity for Ford’s Broadmeadows, Victoria plant, allowing greater production numbers of Territory and Falcon sedan models, including a more economic four-cylinder turbocharged Falcon sedan due later this year.

“My expectation – even without wagon as part of our mix in 2010 – is that our build volume will increase between 10 and 15 per cent.” said Mr Burela.
__________________
BA2 XR8 Rapid M6 Ute - Lid - Tint -18s
226.8rwkW@178kmh/537Nm@140kmh 1/9/2013
14.2@163kmh 23/10/2013

Boss349 built. Not yet run. Waiting on a shell.

Retrotech thread
http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...1363569&page=6
phillyc is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 07-04-2010, 07:50 PM   #64
4Vman
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
4Vman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 14,654
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyc
That is what it was suggested in the interview last week regarding the wagon going...
Sounds like a smart move bourne out of a lack of future demand for the wagon and line capacity issue...



__________________
335 S/C GT: The new KING of Australian made performance cars..
4Vman is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 07-04-2010, 07:53 PM   #65
jpd80
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
jpd80's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,412
Valued Contributor: For members whose non technical contributions are worthy of recognition. - Issue reason: Thoughtful contributions to our community 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Vman
Sounds like a smart move bourne out of a lack of future demand for the wagon and line capacity issue...
Wagon was low cost base model, if it's replaced by twice as many G series sedans, Ford makes more money
jpd80 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 07-04-2010, 07:53 PM   #66
phillyc
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
phillyc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 3,246
Valued Contributor: For members whose non technical contributions are worthy of recognition. - Issue reason: Always factual and beneficial. 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpd80
Still some complication there, with LPG sedans and LPG wagons and RWD Territory - all with 4-speed auto.
Unfortunately, that hodge podge of parts stays until early 2011....
I agree about the wagon. But, maybe RWD Territory might get an early update to ZF? As per todays FG2 launch, stranger things might happen. Good way to reduce consumption which is class competitive right now.
__________________
BA2 XR8 Rapid M6 Ute - Lid - Tint -18s
226.8rwkW@178kmh/537Nm@140kmh 1/9/2013
14.2@163kmh 23/10/2013

Boss349 built. Not yet run. Waiting on a shell.

Retrotech thread
http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...1363569&page=6
phillyc is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 07-04-2010, 07:57 PM   #67
jpd80
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
jpd80's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,412
Valued Contributor: For members whose non technical contributions are worthy of recognition. - Issue reason: Thoughtful contributions to our community 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyc
I agree about the wagon. But, maybe RWD Territory might get an early update to ZF? As per todays FG2 launch, stranger things might happen. Good way to reduce consumption which is class competitive right now.
Ford is now selling many more Territory ZF AWDs than 4-speed RWDs so maybe the complication is minor.
Depends how LPG really sells with ZF now available on many petrol sedans, the build numbers may be small.
jpd80 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 07-04-2010, 07:59 PM   #68
phillyc
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
phillyc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 3,246
Valued Contributor: For members whose non technical contributions are worthy of recognition. - Issue reason: Always factual and beneficial. 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Vman
Sounds like a smart move bourne out of a lack of future demand for the wagon and line capacity issue...
Exactly. They might have sold 4610 wagons last year, but Burela was saying only 200 per month recently (maybe that explains the lift of 100 or so Mondeos in that time frame...)

The other figure I remembered was 278 units per day increasing up to 290 units per day. Which is essentially 4-5%. But the 15% yearly increase stuck in my mind.
__________________
BA2 XR8 Rapid M6 Ute - Lid - Tint -18s
226.8rwkW@178kmh/537Nm@140kmh 1/9/2013
14.2@163kmh 23/10/2013

Boss349 built. Not yet run. Waiting on a shell.

Retrotech thread
http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...1363569&page=6
phillyc is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 07-04-2010, 08:02 PM   #69
phillyc
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
phillyc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 3,246
Valued Contributor: For members whose non technical contributions are worthy of recognition. - Issue reason: Always factual and beneficial. 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpd80
Wagon was low cost base model, if it's replaced by twice as many G series sedans, Ford makes more money
Exactly. Wagon, although a great tool of trade was not the 'image' Ford want. It was essentially 2 generations old.

I'd much rather see 200 G or XR cars in the marketplace than 200 Wagons. But the chances are by getting rid of it means 400 G-XR-Terries can be built.
__________________
BA2 XR8 Rapid M6 Ute - Lid - Tint -18s
226.8rwkW@178kmh/537Nm@140kmh 1/9/2013
14.2@163kmh 23/10/2013

Boss349 built. Not yet run. Waiting on a shell.

Retrotech thread
http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...1363569&page=6
phillyc is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 07-04-2010, 08:03 PM   #70
phillyc
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
phillyc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 3,246
Valued Contributor: For members whose non technical contributions are worthy of recognition. - Issue reason: Always factual and beneficial. 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpd80
Ford is now selling many more Territory ZF AWDs than 4-speed RWDs so maybe the complication is minor.
Depends how LPG really sells with ZF now available on many petrol sedans, the build numbers may be small.
Don't see many LPG now to be honest.
__________________
BA2 XR8 Rapid M6 Ute - Lid - Tint -18s
226.8rwkW@178kmh/537Nm@140kmh 1/9/2013
14.2@163kmh 23/10/2013

Boss349 built. Not yet run. Waiting on a shell.

Retrotech thread
http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...1363569&page=6
phillyc is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 07-04-2010, 08:07 PM   #71
bobthebilda
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,242
Default

I still cant see where the buyers are gonna come from for all the extra Falcons they can make. To make the sales, do you lower your fleet prices lower than your competitor, who is selling at a loss, and will fight tooth and nail to keep those sales to ensure thru put at their own plant.
bobthebilda is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 07-04-2010, 08:16 PM   #72
jpd80
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
jpd80's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,412
Valued Contributor: For members whose non technical contributions are worthy of recognition. - Issue reason: Thoughtful contributions to our community 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobthebilda
I still cant see where the buyers are gonna come from for all the extra Falcons they can make. To make the sales, do you lower your fleet prices lower than your competitor, who is selling at a loss, and will fight tooth and nail to keep those sales to ensure thru put at their own plant.
Improving economy, although rates are going up people are more confident about job and house.
Maybe Ford is to close with order/delivery and needs a slight buffer
of cars to satisfy dealer walk-in buyers...
jpd80 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 07-04-2010, 08:22 PM   #73
4Vman
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
4Vman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 14,654
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpd80
Improving economy, although rates are going up people are more confident about job and house.
Maybe Ford is to close with order/delivery and needs a slight buffer
of cars to satisfy dealer walk-in buyers...
That.. and a new model aimed fairly and square at fleets....



__________________
335 S/C GT: The new KING of Australian made performance cars..
4Vman is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 07-04-2010, 08:36 PM   #74
bobthebilda
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,242
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpd80
Improving economy, although rates are going up people are more confident about job and house.
Maybe Ford is to close with order/delivery and needs a slight buffer
of cars to satisfy dealer walk-in buyers...
Nah, sorry, I cant see it (just my opinion). People were quite confident in March to purchase 94000 vehicles, quite a great month by anyone standards. The only problem is, only approx 4.5% of those buyers chose to buy a falcon / territory derivative. Only 5.5% of those chose a commodore derivative. Even at the lowest points of USA car manufacturing, they never reached such a low local manufacturing to sales ratio.
bobthebilda is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 07-04-2010, 08:37 PM   #75
bafel
Regular Member
 
bafel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Elwood, Melbourne
Posts: 162
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe5619
Who needs exsues?? Falcon is up for the month 25% from last year & up 22% YTD from last year.. This is a great result. Market share increase for the Falcon as well...

Commodore only up 16% for the month & YTD 14% from last year!!


Look at the numbers porperly boys & girlsm before you start saying Holden is doing better than Ford!!
people can certaintly make percentage stats to work in their favour.

If ford sold 1 falcon next month, but sold two the month later they would have increased sales by 100% (but the margins are great!)

Personally i think ford are have entered the first stage of grief - denial.
bafel is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 07-04-2010, 08:44 PM   #76
Joe5619
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,653
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bafel
people can certaintly make percentage stats to work in their favour.

If ford sold 1 falcon next month, but sold two the month later they would have increased sales by 100% (but the margins are great!)

Personally i think ford are have entered the first stage of grief - denial.
Well, if Ford made a profit selling 1 Falcon next month, then I have no problems with it at all!! Will make the 2 month a massive profit number then!!!

And the end of the day, all these sales numbers are BS!! What they should show is the btm line (profit or loss) made by each company each month!! Also, in the world of finance qty sold is meaningless completely, only the sales/marketing department look at qty. In the finance department it is all about revene in dollors & cents.. I wonder how they all add up if we where to look at it this way? Market share in alot of industrys is also worked out on dollors & cents & not qty as in car sales industry..
Joe5619 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 07-04-2010, 08:47 PM   #77
jpd80
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
jpd80's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,412
Valued Contributor: For members whose non technical contributions are worthy of recognition. - Issue reason: Thoughtful contributions to our community 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobthebilda
Nah, sorry, I cant see it (just my opinion). People were quite confident in March to purchase 94000 vehicles, quite a great month by anyone standards. The only problem is, only approx 4.5% of those buyers chose to buy a falcon / territory derivative. Only 5.5% of those chose a commodore derivative. Even at the lowest points of USA car manufacturing, they never reached such a low local manufacturing to sales ratio.
Listen, it's easy to be glass 95% empty because that's the free market
where you have up to 22 manufacturers competing but look at actual sales
and you'll see that Ford still sold 8,092 vehicles, vehicles that are not throw
away fleet hack sales.:

1. Toyota 20,306 (51,684)
2. Holden 11,795 (33,476)
3. Ford 8092 (21,970)
4. Hyundai 7797 (21,213)
5. Mazda 7453 (21,114)
6. Nissan 6558 (15,298)
7. Mitsubishi 5556 (14,622)
8. Honda 4153 (10,261)
9. Subaru 3679 (10,217)
10. Volkswagen 3034 (8369)
jpd80 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 07-04-2010, 09:01 PM   #78
bobthebilda
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,242
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpd80
Listen, it's easy to be glass 95% empty because that's the free market
where you have up to 22 manufacturers competing but look at actual sales
and you'll see that Ford still sold 8,092 vehicles, vehicles that are not throw
away fleet hack sales.:

1. Toyota 20,306 (51,684)
2. Holden 11,795 (33,476)
3. Ford 8092 (21,970)
4. Hyundai 7797 (21,213)
5. Mazda 7453 (21,114)
6. Nissan 6558 (15,298)
7. Mitsubishi 5556 (14,622)
8. Honda 4153 (10,261)
9. Subaru 3679 (10,217)
10. Volkswagen 3034 (8369)
JPD, there general gist was not about Ford total sales, but the sales of its australian made range, which is roughly half those figures. There was no comparison that australians wanted to buy 3678 Hyundai I30's and only 2496 Falcons, there was no issue with the fact that more australians wanted to buy a captiva than a territory. Basically the whole thing was aimed at saying the Australian car industry is rooted.
bobthebilda is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 07-04-2010, 10:42 PM   #79
Dave R
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,940
Technical Contributor: For members who share their technical expertise. - Issue reason: Valued contributor especially in the FG threads. Offers help and information to all. Posts are always in a positive manner. 
Default

2500 units of Falcon is great, particularly if they can make a profit on each unit they sell. I think alot of people aren't looking closely enough at what is behind the "low" numbers. 2500 units at an average sale price of $40,000 is one hundred million dollars worth of Falcons purchased each month, nothing to sneeze at whatsoever. Now with Ford selling a larger proportion of higher end models to private buyers, the average profit made on each of those 2500 sales per month is higher, meaning Ford is taking a larger slice of that hundred million dollars as profit.

Now look to Holden, who sell nearly double the volume of Falcon sales. I'd bet that atleast 60% of those sales are fleet hacks that Holden make next to nothing on. So what's the point of selling 1500 fleet pack Omegas that don't generate profit? They may as well do Falcon numbers and make a margin on every car they sell, rather than giving away half your volume at near cost price and at the same time destroying your resale values.

Ford aren't doing that badly; I bet they make more profit on less volume than Commodore. I just wish that they would either scrap XT or improve it, because it really does tarnish the rest of the range. I vote scrap it, make XR6/G6 the new base models.
Dave R is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 07-04-2010, 11:03 PM   #80
russellw
Chairman & Administrator
Donating Member3
 
russellw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: 1975
Posts: 107,525
Community Builder: In recognition of those who have helped build the AFF community. - Issue reason: Raptor: For Continued, and prolonged service to the wider Ford Community 
Default

The first set of our monthly graphical data has been uploaded into the Tech Area now.

Cheers
Russ
__________________

__________________________________________________

Observatio Facta Rotae


russellw is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 07-04-2010, 11:49 PM   #81
bobthebilda
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,242
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrenaline
2500 units of Falcon is great, particularly if they can make a profit on each unit they sell. I think alot of people aren't looking closely enough at what is behind the "low" numbers. 2500 units at an average sale price of $40,000 is one hundred million dollars worth of Falcons purchased each month, nothing to sneeze at whatsoever.
.
Not quite sure of the makeup of the Falcon range, but looking at the "Ford Hot Deals" site, the XR6 sedan is $36990 and the Ute is 33990 drive away.

For a dealer to sell a $35000 car, they have purchased it for approx $28000. Then you add on $600 transport, $700 rego, $3000 GST, $1200 stamp duty, $1000 dealer margin, $300 finance costs.

4000 cars (2500 falcons, 750 utes, 750 territories) @ $28000 = $112 million

At 4200 employees in geelong and campbellfield @ $5000 each per month = $21 million (yeah i know, most workers dont earn this, but alot do, and with 9% super, 4% payroll tax, workcover etc it all adds up). 3 employees at suppliers for each ford employer = $63 million. Total wages = $84 million. Plus $5 million to maintain facilities, $7 million in depreciation = total of $96 million. And i am sure there are alot of other costs i havent included. So conservatively, Ford and its suppliers have less than $4000 to spend on material to make a car. Thus I assume they (and their suppliers combined) lose quite a few thousand dollars on each car.

At 3500 cars a month, you are just able to pay wages, and other fixed costs. You dont have money to buy materials.
bobthebilda is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 08-04-2010, 12:26 AM   #82
Falc'man
You dig, we stick!
 
Falc'man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 7,461
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by eb2monty
What do you think of this though: Many people will buy cars that are top sellers. Do people really think that Ford don't care that they are selling WAY less Falcons than the Commodore? Public perception is important. The fact that the Falcon is moving down the top 10 list is concerning, no matter how much profit is being made.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe5619
Well, if Ford made a profit selling 1 Falcon next month, then I have no problems with it at all!! Will make the 2 month a massive profit number then!!!

And the end of the day, all these sales numbers are BS!! What they should show is the btm line (profit or loss) made by each company each month!! Also, in the world of finance qty sold is meaningless completely, only the sales/marketing department look at qty. In the finance department it is all about revene in dollors & cents.. I wonder how they all add up if we where to look at it this way? Market share in alot of industrys is also worked out on dollors & cents & not qty as in car sales industry..
Two important posts, with two very good points.

There's no correlation between profit and quantity. The ONLY benefit of quantity of sales is a marketing one. Nothing else.
Falc'man is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 08-04-2010, 12:34 AM   #83
vztrt
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
 
vztrt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern Suburbs Melbourne
Posts: 17,799
Valued Contributor: For members whose non technical contributions are worthy of recognition. - Issue reason: vztrt is one of the most consistent and respected contributors to AFF, I have found his contributions are most useful to discussion as well as answering members queries. 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inducted_Breeze
And here come the usual responses:

-Ford have production levels set low at the moment but they could build more if they wanted to...
And its been discussed in length as to why production levels are low, also how long it will take to up production. Its also been stated that nothing will be increased this year but O/T on Saturdays will be used instead. Wagon getting chopped can't come fast enough.

Also remember that that Geelong was shut down for 3 production days last month. The dealers are screaming for cars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brazen
Also if you take out Falcon wagon, I doubt the Falcon would have been in the top 10.
hahaha, yeah right the whole 400 units (on a good month). Would have been better spent on the utes, terri's or sedans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Vman
So ditching the wagon will speed up and un complicate the line to allow them to build more sedans by themselves than the 2 combined?
Yes and now. Wagon was good as it was easier to put together then a Territory (which is a pain when they have them back to back down the line). But it will be cheaper as they save from buying wagon only parts and have more of parts that are spread over the Falcon/Terri range.
__________________
Daniel
vztrt is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 08-04-2010, 12:35 AM   #84
vztrt
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
 
vztrt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern Suburbs Melbourne
Posts: 17,799
Valued Contributor: For members whose non technical contributions are worthy of recognition. - Issue reason: vztrt is one of the most consistent and respected contributors to AFF, I have found his contributions are most useful to discussion as well as answering members queries. 
Default

http://www.caradvice.com.au/64089/ho...p-28-in-march/

Quote:
Holden’s strong start to 2010 continues, sales up 28% in March

April 7, 2010 by Matt Brogan

Holden continues its strong start to 2010 with the Australian company recording a 28 per cent increase in sales for the month of March (as compared to the same time last year).

Today’s monthly sales figures, released by the Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries (FCAI), show Holden sold a total of 11,795 vehicles in March with its popular Commodore model maintaining its position as Australia’s best selling car. The numbers show the Holden Commodore enjoyed its highest March sales volume since 2007.

Strong sellers elsewhere in the Holden lineup include the Captiva SUV, which had its best sales month since being introduced in 2006, and the Holden Barina.

Holden sold 1455 Captiva models in March, a 153 per cent increase on the same month last year, and 1213 Barinas – the small car’s best sales result since 2006.

“March saw us build on the sales momentum generated earlier in the year, to achieve a very strong first quarter for 2010,” said Holden Executive Director of Sales and Marketing, Mr John Elsworth.

“Commodore continues to be mainstay of our range, proving popular in showrooms time after time. “We are also very pleased with the Captiva range which has really found the sweet spot in the SUV market,

“We have some great offers in the marketplace at the moment, right across the Holden range, that we believe will entice customers into our showrooms and continue the sales momentum that we have seen in the first quarter of 2010.”
__________________
Daniel
vztrt is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 08-04-2010, 12:36 AM   #85
Dave R
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,940
Technical Contributor: For members who share their technical expertise. - Issue reason: Valued contributor especially in the FG threads. Offers help and information to all. Posts are always in a positive manner. 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobthebilda
Not quite sure of the makeup of the Falcon range, but looking at the "Ford Hot Deals" site, the XR6 sedan is $36990 and the Ute is 33990 drive away.

For a dealer to sell a $35000 car, they have purchased it for approx $28000. Then you add on $600 transport, $700 rego, $3000 GST, $1200 stamp duty, $1000 dealer margin, $300 finance costs.

4000 cars (2500 falcons, 750 utes, 750 territories) @ $28000 = $112 million

At 4200 employees in geelong and campbellfield @ $5000 each per month = $21 million (yeah i know, most workers dont earn this, but alot do, and with 9% super, 4% payroll tax, workcover etc it all adds up). 3 employees at suppliers for each ford employer = $63 million. Total wages = $84 million. Plus $5 million to maintain facilities, $7 million in depreciation = total of $96 million. And i am sure there are alot of other costs i havent included. So conservatively, Ford and its suppliers have less than $4000 to spend on material to make a car. Thus I assume they (and their suppliers combined) lose quite a few thousand dollars on each car.

At 3500 cars a month, you are just able to pay wages, and other fixed costs. You dont have money to buy materials.
I wasn't talking about Ford's bottom line, because it's impossible to try and calculate Ford's numbers when everything is purely speculation. I actually did my own version before I posted previously but erased it from the post because every figure is completely plucked out of the air and would easily be out by 10's of millions of dollars.

The point to take home is, Ford is moving (approximately) $100 million worth of Falcons each month (this is not including ute and Territory sales). The greater the concentration of higher end models that make up the mix, the more money Ford takes home. We could sit around all day and play with make believe numbers for Ford's financials, but it really is a useless exercise, I do commend you for trying though. The only thing I will comment about with your numbers is that the wages are out by a huge margin. The thought that employees from Auto parts suppliers take home $5000 a month is unrealistic, and that accounts for $61 million of your calculations so your end figure of $4000 allowance in materials is grossly understated. 7 million in depreciation also seems a bit much for a monthly figure. I'd have thought that most of the core equipment in that plant would have a life of 10 years easily, which @ 7 million per month depreciation (I'm assuming straight line dep) would value Ford's equipment assets in excess of $800 million.
Dave R is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 08-04-2010, 12:37 AM   #86
vztrt
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
 
vztrt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern Suburbs Melbourne
Posts: 17,799
Valued Contributor: For members whose non technical contributions are worthy of recognition. - Issue reason: vztrt is one of the most consistent and respected contributors to AFF, I have found his contributions are most useful to discussion as well as answering members queries. 
Default

http://www.caradvice.com.au/64082/ne...es-march-2010/

Quote:
New Vehicle Sales Figures March 2010

April 7, 2010 by Alborz Fallah

March 2010 Australian Car Industry Figures
Toyota 20306
Holden 11795
Ford 8092
Hyundai 7797
Mazda 7453
Nissan 6558
Mitsubishi 5556
Honda 4153
Subaru 3679
Volkswagen 3034
Suzuki 2308
Kia 2117
Mercedes-Benz 1799
BMW 1479
Audi 1163
Lexus 730
Great Wall 548
Jeep 517
Peugeot 483
Volvo Car 468
Isuzu Ute 413
Land Rover 412
MINI 249
Proton 188
Renault 160
Citroen 133
Jaguar 127
Fiat 118
Ssangyong 115
Dodge 107
Alfa Romeo 104
Smart 81
Skoda 80
Porsche 70
Chrysler 66
Hummer 14
Aston Martin 12
Maserati 12
Ferrari 8
Lamborghini 6
Bentley 4
Lotus 4
Morgan 1
Rolls-Royce 1
Saab 0

Total 92520

Light Car Segment Winners :

1. Toyota Yaris
2. Hyundai Getz
3. Suzuki Swift

Small Car Segment Winners:

1. Hyundai i30
2. Mazda3
3. Toyota Corolla

Medium Car Segment Winners:

1. Toyota Camry
2. Mazda6
3. Honda Accord Euro

Large Car Segment Winners:

1. Holden Commodore
2. Ford Falcon
3. Toyota Aurion

Upper Large Car Segment Winners:

1. Holden Caprice
2. Holden Statesman
3. Chrysler 300C

People Mover Segment Winners:

1. Kia Carnival
2. Hyundai iMAX
3. Toyota Tarago

SUV Compact Segment Winners:

1. Subaru Forester
2. Toyota RAV4
3. Mazda CX-7

SUV Medium Segment Winners:

1. Toyota Prado
2. Holden Captiva
3. Toyota Kluger

SUV Large Segment Winners:

1. Toyota Landcruiser Wagon
2. Nissan Patrol Wagon

SUV Luxury Segment Winners:

1. Lexus RX
2. BMW X5
3. Audi Q5



Top selling cars for March 2010

1. Holden Commodore 4209
2. Toyota HiLux 3935
3. Hyundai i30 3678
4. Mazda3 3562
5. Toyota Corolla 3555
6. Ford Falcon 2496
7. Mitsubishi Lancer 2245
8. Nissan Navara 2154
9. Holden Cruze 2125
10. Toyota Yaris 2114
__________________
Daniel
vztrt is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 08-04-2010, 12:38 AM   #87
vztrt
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
 
vztrt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern Suburbs Melbourne
Posts: 17,799
Valued Contributor: For members whose non technical contributions are worthy of recognition. - Issue reason: vztrt is one of the most consistent and respected contributors to AFF, I have found his contributions are most useful to discussion as well as answering members queries. 
Default

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2576FE000CF48F

March motor market soars to a record

Quote:
Car industry on million-unit pace as hail bargains and economy lift sales to record

7 April 2010

By RON HAMMERTON

THE Australian new motor vehicle market soared to a March record 94,744 sales last month, putting the industry on track to crack the one-million vehicle mark for the first time since 2008, according to official VFACTS figures released today by the Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries (FCAI).

Boosted by a combination of massive sales of hail-damaged cars in Victoria, the remnants of federal government tax incentives and a generally improving economy, sales of cars and trucks jumped 25.2 per cent over March 2009 when the industry was mired in the depths of the global financial crisis.

The monthly sales tally eclipsed the previous March record of 94,392 vehicles in 2007, and after three months, the market is running 18.2 per cent or 38,857 vehicles ahead of last year, on 251,827 units.

In storm-hit Victoria, new vehicle sales rocketed 35.3 per cent as dozens of Melbourne dealers dumped hail-damaged cars at bargain-basement prices in the wake of devastating ‘White Saturday’ storms on March 6.

By comparison, vehicle sales in New South Wales and Queensland were up 23.5 and 20.8 per cent respectively.

Toyota, with 20,306 sales for the month (up 22.3 per cent), topped the sales charts for the 60th consecutive month, ahead of Holden (11,795 units, up 28.4 per cent) and Ford (8092 units, up 6.9 per cent).

But Hyundai again was the big mover, up 58.9 per cent to a company March record 7797 units, placing it just ahead of Mazda (7453 units, up 21.9 per cent) and nipping at Ford’s heels, for both the month and year to date.

Hyundai’s charge was led by its i30 small car, which notched up a record 3678 sales to grab third spot on the top-sellers’ list behind perennial leader Holden Commodore (4209 units) and Toyota’s HiLux (3935).

The March performance by Hyundai was the Korean importer’s best month since the factory took over the tiller for the Australian distributorship in 2003, and the second best since the brand was established in Australia by Bond Motor in 1986.

SUV sales led the charge in March increasing by 44.1 per cent, followed by passenger cars (up 23.5 per cent), heavy commercials (up 20.2 per cent) and then light commercials (up 12 per cent).

FCAI chief executive Andrew McKellar described the industry’s March result as outstanding, providing further evidence that the marketplace was returning to pre-global financial crisis levels. “Business sales show some signs of easing following the phase out of targeted tax breaks but it is pleasing to see renewed growth from private buyers,” he said.

Rental car sales soared 331.5 per cent in March as rental companies restored ageing fleets to more normal levels.

Toyota was buoyed by the performance of its HiLux and Prado imports. The mid-sized Prado SUV jumped into the top 10 with a record 2087 sales for the month – up 94.7 per cent - at the same time claiming top spot in the SUV ranks usually dominated by smaller, compact SUVs.

HiLux’s 3935 sales in March elevated it to a first quarter record tally (10,213 vehicles).

While Toyota’s locally made Camry enjoyed a 31 per cent increase in volume, to 1985 vehicles, thanks to an incremental gain of 548 Camry Hybrids, it slipped to 12th place on the best-sellers table as imports dominated.

Toyota’s market share for March was 21.4 per cent, down half a percentage point on its share last March, but well ahead of Holden’s 12.4 per cent (up 0.3 percentage points) and Ford’s 8.5 per cent (down 1.47 percentage points).

After three months of 2010, Toyota is running at 20.5 per cent share, compared with Holden’s 13.3 per cent and Ford’s 8.7 per cent.

Toyota Australia’s senior executive director sales and marketing David Buttner said the improving economy and competitive retail offers had helped to drive record sales.

He said last year’s investment allowance bonuses continued to contribute – perhaps by 5000 or more sales across the industry in March alone.

“The underlying level of demand suggests the industry will achieve a full-year market in excess of 950,000 and probably quite a bit higher,” he said.

“At this stage, we continue to believe the market will return above the one-million mark in 2011, although it may come tantalisingly close this year.”

Hyundai carved out a market share of 8.4 per cent for the quarter, compared with just 6.0 per cent at the same time last year.

Mazda’s share has slipped marginally, down 0.55 percentage points to 8.4 per cent, while Nissan, has gained 0.16 percentage points, to 6.1 per cent, ahead of Mitsubishi on 5.8 per cent.

Nissan’s March volume grew 49.2 per cent on the back of almost across the board model sales increases, with major gains to its workhorse Navara 4x4 (up 40.9 per cent), Dualis (up 142 per cent), Maxima (up 697 per cent), X-Trail (up 78.6 per cent) and Patrol Wago u (up 65.3 per cent)

Honda reversed its fortunes somewhat in March, pushing back above 4000 units – up 24 per cent on March 2009 – to hold its 2010 year-to-date decline to 13.1 per cent.

A jump in CR-V volumes (125 per cent), Jazz (up 38.4 per cent) and Accord Euro (up 33 per cent) were the highlights.

However, Honda is the only marque in the top ten to have dropped volume this year, and its share has slumped from 5.5 per cent last year to just 4.1 per cent.

Some of Ford’s big guns lifted their game last month, with the locally-made Falcon and Territory both up, roughly matching the overall gains of the market.

Mondeo put on a growth spurt, up 57.4 per cent to 455 units for the month, but the big worry remains Focus, which is copping a kicking in the ultra-competitive small-car market, down 44.6 per cent for the month to 808 units.

It has lost 41.9 per cent of sales over the first quarter compared with the same period last year, now ranking only ninth in its market segment.

Despite being pipped by Honda for the month, Subaru enjoyed its best ever March sales (3679 vehicles).

Top 10 makes, March 2010:
Rank Make Sales % Share
1 Toyota 20,306 21.4%
2 Holden 11,795 12.4%
3 Ford 8092 8.5%
4 Hyundai 7797 8.2%
5 Mazda 7453 7.9%
6 Nissan 6558 6.9%
7 Mitsubishi 5556 5.9%
8 Honda 4153 4.4%
9 Subaru 3679 3.9%
10 Volkswagen 3034 3.2%
__________________
Daniel
vztrt is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 08-04-2010, 05:45 AM   #88
jpd80
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
jpd80's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,412
Valued Contributor: For members whose non technical contributions are worthy of recognition. - Issue reason: Thoughtful contributions to our community 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobthebilda
JPD, there general gist was not about Ford total sales, but the sales of its australian made range, which is roughly half those figures. There was no comparison that australians wanted to buy 3678 Hyundai I30's and only 2496 Falcons, there was no issue with the fact that more australians wanted to buy a captiva than a territory. Basically the whole thing was aimed at saying the Australian car industry is rooted.
OK, didn't mean to jump all over you, these are difficult times and the market is certainly moving
away form large vehicles but it also looks like a lot of those sales are going to Medium SUVs.
Nod doubt things would have been a lot different had Gorman followed Polites plan of a
Diesel Territory by 2006, that move alone would have kept the sales of Territory strong.

True that the local products only make up half of those Ford sales but the half which
Falcon products occupy generates far more revenue due to average transaction price
being much higher. I'm willing to wait and see what effect a refreshed XT and Ecoboost I-4
have on fleet sales and private buyers and also the second coming of Territory with
its new 6 speed auto transmissions across the range and brilliant V6 diesel.

It's hard I know because everything appears to always be 12 months away but
if Ford keeps it head and sells high series products but also manages fleet sales well
this could be very interesting times.

I doubt that Holden would survive at these product levels but Ford's internal changes and
reduction of 600 employees now makes it an extremely lean manufacturer in Australia.

Last edited by jpd80; 08-04-2010 at 05:52 AM.
jpd80 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 08-04-2010, 07:24 AM   #89
kezzer
Regular Member
 
kezzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 489
Default

Is there a reference to the 'commo 75% fleet sales' thing I hear all the time? Or is this assumed fact?
__________________
FG XR6: pacemaker sterline coated headers, Xr8 snorkel + modified CAI, 100cpsi ballistic cat, 20" rims, lower with shocks, custom catback exhaust, custom spacers, tune soon to come, 1/4mile soon to come.
kezzer is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 08-04-2010, 07:52 AM   #90
jpd80
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
jpd80's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,412
Valued Contributor: For members whose non technical contributions are worthy of recognition. - Issue reason: Thoughtful contributions to our community 
Default

Falcon 2496
Ute 980
Territory 964
Mondeo 455
Focus 808
Fiesta 971


Commodore 4209
Ute 1,114
Statesman 49
Caprice 135
Captiva 1,455
Cruze 2125
Barina 1213

Aurion 1027
Camry 1437
Camry Hybrid 548
Corolla 3555
Yaris 2114
Hilux 4x2 1502
Hilux 4x4 2433
Prado 2087
jpd80 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Reply


Forum Jump


All times are GMT +11. The time now is 06:36 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Other than what is legally copyrighted by the respective owners, this site is copyright www.fordforums.com.au
Positive SSL