Would you buy a diesel Falcon?

[TheInterceptor]

In regards to lpg = cheaper to run, in a diesel, you could always opt for a vege oil conversion kit (bout $1000 odd for the top system), provided you have a good source nearby (eg restaurant) who are willing to give you their waste oil which id imagine they would as they'd want to get rid of it anyway, its waste!
Once your car is setup, you just fill n go - for free.

[sgt_doofey]

I reckon you could do the vegie oil in an older oil burner, but I certainly wouldn't do it to my modern Euro diesel motor.

[Wardo]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Haven't seen a diesel taxi yet. Seen plenty of Hybrids. I guess we should have a Hybrid Falcon before a diesel one.

I've seen a few Diesel Passat wagons as Yellow cabs in Brisbane. I remember a newspaper article saying the Passat was the preffered option over the LPG Falcon and a deal has been done with VW.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by chevypower

Don't bet on that! The technology is changing, the market is changing. If Ford doesn't offer the EcoBoost, watch Hyundai take the sales lead with the i45/Sonata Turbo (2.0T DI), which replaces the V6. Ford should make sure the Falcon has 200kw in its 2.0T DI.

Yeah but the base Sonata engine is a NA 2.0litre four. Of course their is going to be a performance justification for getting the turbo.

The problem is the base Falcon engine is a 4.0litre 6 with more power and torque than the EcoBoost whilst still achieving great fuel economy. Who would pay a premium for less power and torque just to get better fuel economy? Imagine buying a new E-Class Merc and paying extra for a 4 cylinder over their V6?? And anyway anyone that obsessed on saving 1 or 2 litres per 100 would already be considering a diesel car anyway.

So that leaves fleets to pick the Ecoboost but they already have the fantastic LPG engine available or they could buy a Hybrid Camry or diesel Cruze. I just dont see where all these EcoBoost sales are going to come from as long as the I6 and LPG remain....

Diesel with its 1000km touring range, sophisticated image thanks to the Euros, acceptance by many many SUV buyers and its availability in the bush means a high liklihood of success under the bonnet of the Falcon.

I think Ford are still stuck with the mindset of instead of asking buyers what they want, they are telling buyers what they want.

[sgt_doofey]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Diesel with its 1000km touring range, sophisticated image thanks to the Euros, acceptance by many many SUV buyers and its availability in the bush means a high liklihood of success under the bonnet of the Falcon.

Don't forget that Ford did the LPG challenge where they drove an eGas Falcon around Oz. One reason was to show how cheap it was (under $1000 from memory) and the other was availability of LPG. Having said that, they went around the coast, so availability in the big red centre of Australia is probably a different case where diesel will probably be the better option.

[dannyhilton]

Me personally, no. But the company I work for would buy them for sure

[ute83]

I'm in a good position to add something to this discussion, being the owner of an hyundai santa fe 2.2 td, and a dual fuel 380. Modern td engines have great low down torque but after about 2500 rpm they just fall over. This makes overtaking a bit hairy, as you cruise at about 2000 rpm, put your foot down it kicks down and nothing much happens. My 380 has all the power you need anytime you want with fuel savings to boot. 380 has no extra service costs, but the td's can do turbos regularly and the injectors are a huge cost. So i too am not convinced by the small turbo diesels longevity.

[want-a-XY]

it'd be a tough decision between the i6 which i adore, or a jag TD........ the diesel with the 6 speed auto would be an effortless drive!!!!!!!! i would love to support the geelong factory and buy an i6, but that effortless torque of the TD might win me over.

[SteveJH]

I hit no when i first looked at this thread.

However looking at it now, and thinking about it some more.

Even if it is not for me, I believe a Diesel Falcon would be a good idea.

A diesel falcon should have been planned rather then an Ecoboost falcon.

This would mean only 1 new engine added to the production line rather then two.

However, the problem with it is that it blurs the lines between the falcon and the Mondeo. But then again, so does putting the eco-boost engine in the falcon.

[chevypower]

I remember in 2003 I first heard that Ford Australia was considering a diesel Falcon. In 2005 I was discussing the idea on here to see what people thought. Most hated the idea! Looks like everyone has changed their minds about diesel. Maybe give the EcoBoost a chance to prove itself, because I have this feeling that in a few years everyone will be raving about it.

[peeds13]

I think a diesel ute would sell well, but I would never buy a diesel sedan

[SteveJH]

Originally Posted by chevypower

I remember in 2003 I first heard that Ford Australia was considering a diesel Falcon. In 2005 I was discussing the idea on here to see what people thought. Most hated the idea! Looks like everyone has changed their minds about diesel. Maybe give the EcoBoost a chance to prove itself, because I have this feeling that in a few years everyone will be raving about it.

Depends how Durable Ecoboost turns out to be.

[aussie muscle]

I don't want a diesel falcon, but it'd go a long way to over come the perception of a Ford being a gas-guzzler.

[Seduce XR6]

Originally Posted by cycle myth

Many have cited the example of how good a diesel can be with the XF jag.

With the same or similar engine, same or similar gearbox, similar weight .... why wouldn't you?

It would have to cost less than the XF's $100k and perform in line.

Sad.

The XF Jag runs ZF 6 speed Auto & is something like 1850 kilos so in a Falcon would be equally as nice.

The cost of the Jag is not because of the engine or gearbox either mainly is the other bits & the nameplate.

The 3L landrover diesel comes very close to the Jags engine in Torque & power so would run just as strong & economical in a Falcon as the XF does.

[OzJavelin]

This is probably not an issue anymore, but I remember previously reading about diesels producing some particulate matter (or somesuch) which was photo-reactive. In most European countries the reduced sunlight means this is not an issue, but in Australia with very high sunlight saturation this is (was?) a much bigger problem? Has this all been fixed now? Will the relentless march of the masses to diesel "cars" cause more pollution/health issues?

BTW: I'd be happy with a diesel in a car .. V8 and twin turbo!

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by OzJavelin

This is probably not an issue anymore, but I remember previously reading about diesels producing some particulate matter (or somesuch) which was photo-reactive. In most European countries the reduced sunlight means this is not an issue, but in Australia with very high sunlight saturation this is (was?) a much bigger problem? Has this all been fixed now? Will the relentless march of the masses to diesel "cars" cause more pollution/health issues?

BTW: I'd be happy with a diesel in a car .. V8 and twin turbo!

Emmission laws have reduced this number greatly (even if it means reduced life of Diesel engines). So modern diesels are not something that will cause any real issues.

BTW direct injection motors would have the same problem with particulate matter.

[Martyvan]

Originally Posted by Wardo

I've seen a few Diesel Passat wagons as Yellow cabs in Brisbane. I remember a newspaper article saying the Passat was the preffered option over the LPG Falcon and a deal has been done with VW.

Ive seen heaps and i mean heaps of B & W cabs as passat wagons.... They reckon over a 'life' of a cab they will end up being HEAPS cheaper???

Go figure i say

Next thing you know they will be using mondeo wagons, as they are cheaper again.... same size and about the same diesel....

[OzJavelin]

Originally Posted by Martyvan

Next thing you know they will be using mondeo wagons, as they are cheaper again.... same size and about the same diesel....

My sister-in-law has a 1.5Yo Mondeo diesel sedan .. it emits more visible smoke than an old 2-stroke motorbike I've seen in my weekly VJMC rides ..

[sgt_doofey]

Originally Posted by OzJavelin

This is probably not an issue anymore, but I remember previously reading about diesels producing some particulate matter (or somesuch) which was photo-reactive. In most European countries the reduced sunlight means this is not an issue, but in Australia with very high sunlight saturation this is (was?) a much bigger problem? Has this all been fixed now? Will the relentless march of the masses to diesel "cars" cause more pollution/health issues?

Some Euro diesels also come fitted with a particulate filter. Our Peugeot has one.

My sister-in-law has a 1.5Yo Mondeo diesel sedan .. it emits more visible smoke than an old 2-stroke motorbike I've seen in my weekly VJMC rides

On the other side, I rubbed my finger on the inside of the exhaust pipe of the Peugeot after we had done 17,000kms. My finger came out clean. It comes out dirty now after 80,000kms, but not very. It takes a real flogging to see any exhaust fumes out the back, and even then, it's usually at night and in the headlights of the car behind.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by OzJavelin

My sister-in-law has a 1.5Yo Mondeo diesel sedan .. it emits more visible smoke than an old 2-stroke motorbike I've seen in my weekly VJMC rides ..

i would say it most definitely has a problem. i couldn't tell you what... even trucks these days don't pour smoke out the exhausts!

as for the diesel v lpg arguement, i'm not sure i can understand how taxi operators can claim such significant savings. the only thing i can think of is maybe the nature of the driving isn't too kind on lpg mileage. i'd also say that just because taxi company's are finding a saving, doesn't mean that applies to joe public.

i have a bf2 egas, my brother has a turbo diesel rodeo. admittedly, the km per dollar is roughly the same, slightly in my favour. lpg systems have improved by a good 15% over the mixer based system though, and i'm sure diesel engines have improved somewhat as well but i just can't see them matching lpg if the vehicles are a similar size.

i'm not saying lpg is a more efficient fuel. its just that its often 60 - 70cpL cheaper at the pump (in my area at least) so the diesel needs to be quite a bit better.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by prydey

i would say it most definitely has a problem. i couldn't tell you what... even trucks these days don't pour smoke out the exhausts!

as for the diesel v lpg arguement, i'm not sure i can understand how taxi operators can claim such significant savings. the only thing i can think of is maybe the nature of the driving isn't too kind on lpg mileage. i'd also say that just because taxi company's are finding a saving, doesn't mean that applies to joe public.

i have a bf2 egas, my brother has a turbo diesel rodeo. admittedly, the km per dollar is roughly the same, slightly in my favour. lpg systems have improved by a good 15% over the mixer based system though, and i'm sure diesel engines have improved somewhat as well but i just can't see them matching lpg if the vehicles are a similar size.

i'm not saying lpg is a more efficient fuel. its just that its often 60 - 70cpL cheaper at the pump (in my area at least) so the diesel needs to be quite a bit better.

I actually very much doubt you can save money on diesel over LPG. LPG would be a lot cheaper. Repco's fleet of Tritons were put on LPG rather than go with the factory diesel option - apparantly the whole delivery business of the company would not be viable if the fleet was on diesel, thats how much cheaper LPG is than diesel.

Maybe in stop/start traffic in which a taxi lives diesel it is better suited? I dont know.

[burnz]

in heavy city traffic the diesel 6.5/100 with an average 18kph.
being that distilate is around twice the price of gas the lpg taxi must average 13/100
in the same conditions to brake even.

what i dont know is when govco is going to introduce it's tax on lpg and at what rate?

[sgt_doofey]

Originally Posted by burnz

what i dont know is when govco is going to introduce it's tax on lpg and at what rate?

Next year and 2.5c/L each year up until it's 12.5c/L in 2015: http://www.lpgautogas.com.au/index.cfm?Action=Faq#12
Last paragraph.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by burnz

in heavy city traffic the diesel 6.5/100 with an average 18kph.

what car are we talking about here? and do you have proof of those figures?

[burnz]

Originally Posted by prydey

what car are we talking about here? and do you have proof of those figures?

oviusly a mid size car as their isn't a falcodore diesel.
and as for proof well i used my car as an average.

[BrisVegas]

I would buy a 4cyl diesel falcon, yes. I've owned a Passat in the past and enjoyed the economy and room of it. A similar drivetrain in a Falcon would have hte added dimension of decent handling. Oh, and it'd mean there's an economical large car that's Aussie built.

fwiw, I think the 2.0 ecoboost petrol will be a great addition to the range. Bring it on.

[Mr Hardware]

If they had a Hyundai-like diesel, then yes
If they had a Mitsubishi-like diesel? No way in the world.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by sgt_doofey

Next year and 2.5c/L each year up until it's 12.5c/L in 2015: http://www.lpgautogas.com.au/index.cfm?Action=Faq#12
Last paragraph.

We have had one (and a half) government changes since then and there is a lot of pressure to increase revinue through surreptitious means.

I would not like to bet on that deal standing...

[sgt_doofey]

Originally Posted by flappist

We have had one (and a half) government changes since then and there is a lot of pressure to increase revinue through surreptitious means.

I would not like to bet on that deal standing...

As you've said, it's stood for 1.5 governments now, so it's likely to stay as is for now. But, having said that, my cynicism probably matches yours on this subject. But if it's revenue they're after, wouldn't it be better to install more speed cameras?

[jpd80]

After all, people started switching to diesel to save money and what did the oil companies do?
They jacked up the price of diesel, a previously cheap source of fuel for industry and farm use.

I wouldn't put it past oil companies and governments to make LPG almost as dear as petrol.