VE Series 2

[Stoney!]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

This E85 is the BIGGEST CON job in Australian motoring in a long time. From what I have read, the savings on E85 fuel is 20 cent, which works out to be a 26% saving (.20/1.30), but drinks 1/3 (or 33.333%) more fuel.. That makes E85 cars 7% more expensive to operate each & every time you go to the petrol station...

Who in there right mind would be this??? Also add to that, you can only get it in 3L engines & you're already drinking more than a falcon in the real world, add 7% for E85 & you have a very expensive & gut less car to drive!!!

Con, con, con, con…. But watch Holden marketing at work & all the donkies that will buy this crap!!

UM, it's not all about cost, I would run it on it for sure, more power and greener!

Touch screen sat nav is awesome and made by the same Company as VW's Sat nav system which is one of the best in the biz, however holdens top it with standard reversing camera, premium bluetooth and live traffic updates... well done!

Stoney!

[EgoFalcon]

SV6 and SS bumpers kinda look like the series 1 VE's but melted.

[LeadFoot81]

Originally Posted by EgoFalcon

SV6 and SS bumpers kinda look like the series 1 VE's but melted.

Exactly!

[BOSHOG]

Originally Posted by duaned

Why do Holden's interior designers continue to place the power window buttons in the centre console? In relation to be able to lock the power windows, what good is it in the centre console when even a child can reach over to it from the back seat?

the kids in the back should be wearing seatbelts......... and be disciplined from birth to do as theyre told

[Stoney!]

Well said....

Stoney!

[block58]

I'm surprised Omega is getting so much standard kit! This seems like a big move forward, I wonder what Ford will do to combat it.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by block58

I'm surprised Omega is getting so much standard kit! This seems like a big move forward, I wonder what Ford will do to combat it.

The only thing omega gets over the xt is a colour screen and dual zone...

I think Ford will drop the XT in the near future and make the G6 standard which is apparently going to get the colour screen soon as standard.

[block58]

Originally Posted by bfiipursuit

The only thing omega gets over the xt is a colour screen and dual zone...

I think Ford will drop the XT in the near future and make the G6 standard which is apparently going to get the colour screen soon as standard.

+ GPS + Reversing Camera.

Would be good if the G6 become base, but I think the XT should stay on as a Fleet model anyway.

[xbrules]

It still looks like a fat Astra from about 10 years ago, well out of date with the rest of GM's global design brief.

Having driven an SIDI SV6 back in may, it was one of the worst cars I have ever had the misfortune to steer around Qld. lousy build quality (steering wheel was coming unstitched after only 12,000kms), the way the engine put its power to the transmission was "undignified" to say the least and the interior dash design was a downright disgrace. the dash was backlit in red and had a grey background. it was simply unreadable.

it still baffles me how it is the best selling car in australia

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by block58

+ GPS + Reversing Camera.

Would be good if the G6 become base, but I think the XT should stay on as a Fleet model anyway.

No only the higher up models get GPS and reverse camera...

Fleets dont want XT anymore, they dont order them...

[vztrt]

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/08/31/g...for-australia/

GM releases 2011 Holden Series II family for Australia

by Steven J. Ewing (RSS feed) on Aug 31st 2010 at 1:32PM

We'll admit it – we miss the Pontiac G8. A lot. General Motors' Americanized version of the rear-wheel-drive Holden Commodore met its death with the demise of Pontiac last year, and of all the GM products that we've lost in the past twelve months, the G8 is the one we'd immediately rebirth if we could (especially the GXP). Holden, however, is still alive and well in its native Australia, and the automaker has just released its Series II family, which offers up a host of small changes to nearly the full line of products.

There isn't anything drastically different about the Series II versions of the Commodore, Calais, Caprice, Berlina or Omega – just the typical new model year additions. Most notably, the 3.0-liter V6 and 6.0-liter V8 engines are now capable of running on bio-ethanol fuel, and slight improvements to fuel economy have been made across the range. In addition, small visual tweaks have been made to the fascias of all models and new paint colors have been added.

A similar story can be told about these cars' interiors – minute tweaks to fit and finish have been made, though the big news is the addition of GM's new Holden-iQ infotainment system, available on all Series II models. Holden-iQ incorporates audio, Bluetooth and navigation functions into one 6.5-inch touchscreen interface, as well as a back-up camera (not available on the Ute).

For the full list of changes, browse through Holden's press release, available after the jump, and see the full 2011 Series II range for yourself in the high-res image gallery below. Hat tip to Neil!

pics

[vztrt]

Holden charts new waters with ethanol

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...257791002417CF

E85 Commodore set to broaden Holden brand audience, despite consumption drawbacks

1 September 2010

By BYRON MATHIOUDAKIS

HOLDEN admits it has no idea what the take-up will be for E85 ethanol fuel by drivers of the new VE Commodore Series II 3.0-litre V6 and 6.0-litre V8 models that have been engineered to take the 85 per cent ethanol-petrol blend.

But the company says it believes early adopters, as well as people who value reducing their carbon dioxide emissions by around 40 per cent, will now consider the Commodore for the first time, thus boosting overall sales.

This is despite the fact that using the E85 pump means that the Commodore’s fuel consumption will soar by up to 30 per cent or more due to the lower stored energy rating of ethanol compared to unleaded petrol, outweighing its 15 per cent or so price advantage.

Caltex – Holden’s petroleum industry partner in the rollout of E85 pumps across Australia – sells E85 for 20c less than the ULP.

However, Holden hopes that, through education, Australians will realise that the E85 technology might improve resale values, especially if oil prices rise as dramatically as they did five years ago.

“It’s definitely a process of education,” said Holden chairman and managing director Mike Devereux.

“(In Brazil) that argument has been fought and won for decades. It’s a supply and demand equation. If there’s more if it to go around, (ethanol) prices go down … and that’s in fourth largest car market on the planet, on its way to being the third.”

Mr Devereux added that Australia’s oil security would be stretched as emerging powerhouse nations add to the upward pressure to the price of a barrel.

“There is definitely an (oil) security (situation) in Australia,” he said.

“India is growing; China is growing; Oil prices are going nowhere but inexorably up over time as consumption increases. And it seems like a good strategy for a country to have some level of independence over that external price (effect on oil).”

Mr Devereux said that introducing an E85-compatible V8 is in keeping with Holden’s Ecoline stance, despite the higher fuel consumption figure. V8s account for about 22 per cent of all Commodore sales in Australia.

“I think that reducing your carbon footprint by 40 per cent will make people think about their Commodores differently. It is a very green alternative.

“We’re going to sell what people want to buy. And as a company we are going to be set up to have options for folks.

“If they want to buy V8s – fantastic, we’ll make them as fuel-efficient as we can. And we have up to 12 per cent improvements on some of our V8 models this year.

“If they want to buy V6s – great. If they want to by four-cylinder cars, great.

“We have to be able to give folks out there what they want. We’re not pushing any particular size of engine.

“But I do think that having the ability to look at AFM cylinder deactivation, ethanol … these are green ways for people to drive V8s, no question.”

Nevertheless, Holden will not actively promote the higher-octane virtues of using the E85 pump on either of the VE Series II’s compatible engines.

“There are no plans to try and make a performance angle out of (E85) even though the car will go better on ethanol than it does on standard petrol,” Mr Devereux said.

“We see ethanol as an environmental play.”

[dannyhilton]

Holdens IQ system looks fantastic, sat nav built in on upper models, and the interior of the sports and base models looks much better. I've always found it strange why they had a different interior for the sports and non sports cars, but I do think the sports interior now looks better. Now if it's built well using nice plastics, they could catch up with Ford. As for the outside, well not much there, but let's face it, the Commodore still looks pretty good for a four year old car, especially their sports wagon.

[Giant Cranium]

they wont improve there plastics.
put your arm on the door trim and it scratchs you.
and you can feel all the sharp edges where the plastics meet
no where as good as even the cheap plastic ford uses

[fakegt]

Anyone got an educated idea on how much the current MY10 should drop after the introduction of the new model? Either private or Yard on a used vehicle. I know Holden have dropped 1 or 2K on the New Vehicle run-out deals. Is it an immediate drop or does it take a while to filter through in the second hand market?
Cheers, Dave

[Jason[98.EL]]

Taken from http://ninemsn.carpoint.com.au/news/...periment-21439

Holden's ethanol experiment

E85 is out of the laboratory, but is it validated?
» Get the best price on a new Holden Holden's migration to E85 'flex fuel' engines for its locally-manufactured Commodore range will be slow to yield large-scale gains. There'll be no immediate change in petrol dependency from the retail introduction of the VE Series II Commodore and it will likely take years for E85 vehicles to have any sort of impact in this country.

While much has been made of ethanol's status as a renewable, low-carbon fuel, it's not a universal panacea by any means -- something Holden not only acknowledges, but emphasises.

E85 is one plank of a broader energy diversity strategy and the company's Energy and Environment Director, Richard Marshall, describes that strategy as "silver buckshot" rather than a silver bullet. E85, which comprises up to 85 per cent ethanol blended with 15 per cent petrol, is just one pellet among the buckshot.

While E85 appears to be an easy means of reducing fossil fuel dependency, it's not without its own issues. Cars running E85 consume fuel faster than when burning conventional 91 octane unleaded petrol. On the flipside, the higher-octane biofuel (up to 105 octane) delivers discernible gains in mid-range power, Marshall claims, although it doesn't show up in peak power and torque figures.

But that's not the point. E85 is better for the environment in theory, although Holden can't provide fuel consumption figures for the new Commodore running this fuel, in a format comparable to the ADR-approved combined-cycle consumption test.

"There is less stored energy in a litre of ethanol than there is in a litre of petrol," admitted Holden MD Mike Devereux, who immediately countered that with a claimed 40 per cent reduction in tailpipe emissions of CO2 from the flex-fuel engines.

However, the SIDI engine's much vaunted 'Melbourne-to-Sydney on one tank' economy doesn't hold up if the car is running on E85, Marshall told journalists later.

"We don't quite get to Sydney on one tank of fuel any more, but you can get to Goulburn," he said.

Like any new technology, a reduction in fuel dependency due to E85 will manifest itself in a snowball effect. The pace of change will gather slowly at first, since introducing the new fuel to Australia's top-selling car won't show any sort of downward effect on the use of non-renewable fuels when total domestic sales of the Commodore and its derivatives in 2009 accounted for just six per cent of the full market.

And that six per cent or thereabouts will not all be E85-capable in 2010 and 2011. The 3.0-litre SIDI V6 and the 6.0-litre V8 are flex fuel engines from the launch of the Series II VE models for 2011, but the 3.6-litre version is still "eight to 12 months" away, says Devereux. A significant number of the cars sold will be LPG-fuelled too.

In the shorter term, any significant uptake in ethanol-blended E85 will be predicated on the Commodore owner's willingness to drive up to 10km to find an E85 bowser -- and the car will consume fuel at a higher rate when burning E85 as mentioned already. But the added travel and higher fuel consumption should be offset by a lower purchase price for the fuel, since retail chain Caltex expects the blended mix to be as much as 30 cents a litre cheaper than 98 RON ULP and around 20 cents cheaper than regular 91 RON unleaded.

"We have two sites already in Victoria, selling the fuel, which we call e-Flex," says Caltex spokesperson, Felicity Wilson. "And today it's being sold for 96.9 cents per litre. That price is 20 cents below the current price today of ULP and is also below what independents are selling it for at the moment.

"Obviously that's going to change with price cycles. As you're aware, the price could be higher... We're pegging it to petrol prices because that's what consumers understand. Premium prices are currently pegged to unleaded petrol prices -- about 14 cents over -- so we're looking at a 34 cent differential from Vortex 98, our highest premium fuel to e-Flex, which has an octane rating of 105."

Wilson, speaking at the same Holden media event earlier this week, revealed to the Carsales Network that the service stations equipped to sell E85 will be few on the ground initially. And the wait for E85 in country areas will be even longer. In rural towns, where the price of petrol can be significantly higher than in major metropolitan areas, E85 could be a winner, but Wilson says that there are some obstacles to overcome first.

"It's going to take some time for us to get e-Flex out to regional areas," she said. "Of the 31 sites which will be selling the fuel by the end of October, none of those are truly regional areas. We have one in Newcastle and one on the central coast of New South Wales, but none of them are truly regional at this stage.

"We are going to have regional sites in the first 100, but it's additional complexity and cost with ethanol. Because it's a different product, you can't put it in fiberglass tanks, you can't put it in certain types of tanks.

"The interesting thing is with a lot of regional and rural service stations, the tanks are very old, there might be some corrosion, but they don't leak because the corrosion actually covers the leak. When you put high ethanol blend into it, the alcohol cleans the tank and can create leaks -- and create all these different issues."

So it's a protracted process for Caltex and until such time as the fuel supplier sees substantial revenue from providing motorists with E85, it's not as if other fuel retailers will necessarily follow Caltex's lead in a hurry.

That's why Caltex is committed to as few as 100 E85 stations in the near future -- out of over 1600 around the country. And that figure doesn't even include Caltex-branded service stations operated by retailer Woolworths.

If Caltex is in the position of hastening slowly for its own infrastructure-related reasons, it's also held back by the little matter of supply. Caltex has to blend ethanol with its petrol and there's some cost associated with setting that up, which is a further infrastructure problem, but the ethanol itself is supplied by companies such as Manildra, based at Nowra in NSW.

There's no high-volume supply capacity from Coskata's second-generation ethanol production process as yet. Coskata and its strategic partners (including Holden and Caltex) are still seeking investors to contribute towards the establishment of a plant in Australia.

"What we're working on at the moment is just to get one plant running," said Richard Marshall, Holden's Energy and Environment Director, but the first plant is virtually a proof-of-concept proposition.

"If we can establish this first plant, what it shows is that it's not so much about making ethanol, it's about ethanol being a high-value economic driver, to solve a waste problem -- and then have all these additional benefits that go upstream in terms of regional development and jobs on the land, and so on.

"So this plant... we're looking at something like 200 million litres' capacity of ethanol. To feed that plant, we'd need to be putting in about a million tonnes of raw materials into that -- in terms of waste. That waste would be a mixture of municipal household waste, construction and demolition waste, commercial and industrial, old tyres, forestry waste and various agricultural residues..."

Marshall anticipates the plant would cost about $400 million to build and the construction time will likely exceed two years, but he wouldn't reveal where the first plant might be located, although there were various options already being assessed.

If the Coskata plant can lead the way, ethanol production in Australia (from waste products) offers environmental benefits not available to flex fuel vehicle buyers in the US, where ethanol is grown from corn in the mid west, but the flex fuel vehicles tend to be sold in the more populous areas on the east and west coasts. Distribution thus becomes a problem, not to mention the confronting issue of producing fuel for road transport from food crops. With the Coskata process, both those problems can be eliminated in Australia.

So there are diverse, valid reasons for Holden, Caltex and Coskata being committed to ethanol. In Holden's case the R&D for the E85 conversion for the SIDI engines is much less expensive than auto-stop technology for example and that's a cost saving passed onto the new-car buyer. E85 comes to market without requiring of vehicle owners they modify their behaviour or spend more money to be green, which is another advantage to the biofuel. And over time, E85 engines could use 30 per cent less petrol than equivalent petrol-only engines.

But like LPG before it, E85 will take a long while to establish as a viable alternative to fossil fuels. What's that saying about the journey of a thousand miles?

[Brazen]

Im an E85 convert after reading that article. Made from waste, 40% less emissions than a normal car and more mid range power and torque. Beautiful.

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by Holdens Spin Doctors

E85 is better for the environment in theory, although Holden can't provide fuel consumption figures for the new Commodore running this fuel, in a format comparable to the ADR-approved combined-cycle consumption test.

I call bulldust they do not know the fuel consumption figures, they are aware it burns faster and the figures would embarass them........

[Mr Hardware]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Im an E85 convert after reading that article. Made from waste, 40% less emissions than a normal car and more mid range power and torque. Beautiful.

Sounds like LPG to me
except e85 has heaps of tax

[Jason[98.EL]]

I think E85 could be a good thing the prob some of us have is the fact it is bloody hard to find

I would happily run it in my car if i could find it

The other thing for me is i can get tunes done for different fuels all i need is to get J3 chip tune changer thing y ( lol)

I know that one of the ozecruisers guys have or are running it in his car (eb/ed V8 wagon) and getting good results

Jason

[Gobes32]

All these hybrids, electric vehicles, E85 etc are getting big news time, and yet lpg is forgotten about. I predict that when Ford release liquid injection gas, it will start the new revolution.......

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Im an E85 convert after reading that article. Made from waste, 40% less emissions than a normal car and more mid range power and torque. Beautiful.

Just make sure you never try to drive to anywhere that is not a suburb of a capital city in the next few years.

There are STILL many places where even LPG and PULP are unavailable.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Great job Holden, launching a dead pan overhaul of a rather bland uninspiring VE Commodore just days before
Ford and FPV release their Supercharged V8 baby. I'm sure the most exciting Falcon in decades will now be
pushed to a page 54 article.

I would have thought the same as you seeing as the VEII release has press photos of cars and a big play on E85/touch screen/clever Commodore etc..vs FPV's engine only info...until I saw todays H-S Carsguide, just a single page to VEII which is Paul Gover's own column on page 3 and Miamia story, half page on p9...

[Dr Smith]

I love this bit from Jason[98.EL]'s post above

However, the SIDI engine's much vaunted 'Melbourne-to-Sydney on one tank' economy doesn't hold up if the car is running on E85, Marshall told journalists later.

"We don't quite get to Sydney on one tank of fuel any more, but you can get to Goulburn," he said.

So when you get to Goulburn you have to run into a hardware store and by some methylated spirits, grab some petrol at the servo and mix away in the right ratio and pray it might work....

EDIT: I've just rung up Holden's marketing office and asked if I could send round my wet laundry as they can provide better spin then my 1600rpm Miele washing machine.

[Jason[98.EL]]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

I love this bit from Jason[98.EL]'s post above So when you get to Goulburn you have to run into a hardware store and by some methylated spirits, grab some petrol at the servo and mix away in the right ratio and pray it might work....

EDIT: I've just rung up Holden's marketing office and asked if I could send round my wet laundry as they can provide better spin then my 1600rpm Miele washing machine.

thats actually why i posted the above

their big spin on getting to Sydney has been shot in the *** by their own people trying to make the car greener

but as i said i would happily run it if it was available at all servos

Jason

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

I love this bit from Jason[98.EL]'s post above So when you get to Goulburn you have to run into a hardware store and by some methylated spirits, grab some petrol at the servo and mix away in the right ratio and pray it might work....

EDIT: I've just rung up Holden's marketing office and asked if I could send round my wet laundry as they can provide better spin then my 1600rpm Miele washing machine.

Goulburn! Thats perfect. You could find some rotten peaches and brew your own ethanol. So technically you could get there on a single tank, pity it will take you 3 months and you'll need a degree in chemistry.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by flappist

Just make sure you never try to drive to anywhere that is not a suburb of a capital city in the next few years.

There are STILL many places where even LPG and PULP are unavailable.

The E85 Commodores can still run on normal petrol, or have I read that wrong?

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Brazen

The E85 Commodores can still run on normal petrol, or have I read that wrong?

It'll run on reg petrol.

[vztrt]

http://theage.drive.com.au/motor-new...910-1546m.html

E85 Holden not about saving money ... yet
Toby Hagon
September 10, 2010 - 12:46PM

Don’t expect to save money at the bowser with Holden’s new E85-friendly Commodore, at least at today’s prices

Holden’s new E85-capable V6 and V8 engines will reduce carbon dioxide emissions but won’t save owners any money – for now at least.

That’s the word from Holden’s director of energy and environment, Richard Marshall, who says the additional 25 to 40 per cent of fuel that the that new VE Series 2 Commodore will use when running on E85 (a blend of petrol and up to 85 per cent ethanol) will equate to similar running costs of what is a cheaper fuel per litre.

“It’s not about saving money,” says Marshall. “It’s all about providing a sustainable choice [from an environmental perspective].”

At today’s fuel prices – where Caltex’s E85 blend is roughly 20 cents per litre less than regular unleaded – he says drivers should find themselves paying about as much to run a car on E85 as they would running it on E85.

Marshall says the VE Series 2 Commodore will use about one-third more fuel when running on E85, ranging from 25 to 40 per cent depending on how the car is being driven and it what conditions.

However, he says the E85 compatibility is all about flexibility, especially heading into an era of increasing environmental awareness and energy uncertainty.“This is not about what the price of fuel is today … that’s the whole concept of future proofing,” he says.

Marshall says fleets, in particular, like the idea of having a choice moving forward, especially when it can potentially reduce running costs in the long run.

“That’s what the fleets love … it’s effectively an insurance policy.”

Marshall also pointed to the recent petrol price spike in 2006 as something that can change buying habits and, potentially, impact resale values.

“When petrol spiked in 2006 a lot more people started using E10 (a blend of 10 per cent ethanol and 90 per cent petrol) because [the price] hit that psychological barrier about what people are prepared to pay [to refuel their car].

“We think we’ll get that [change of behaviour] with E85.”

The E85 capability on the new Commodores applies to the 3.0-litre V6 and 6.0-litre V8 models. The 3.6-litre V6 used in the SV6, Calais and Caprice will be updated to E85 capability by 2012.

Changes to the engines to ensure it can run on E85 include hardened valves and valve seats, a new fuel pump, the addition of a flex fuel sensor and revised engine calibration.

Caltex currently has 31 E85 outlets across Australia and is working towards more than 100.

[vztrt]

http://theage.drive.com.au/motor-new...910-154be.html

Holden: We're future-proofing Commodore
Jez Spinks and Toby Hagon
September 10, 2010 - 1:51PM

Holden says the Series 2 update for its Commodore is part of a strategy to keep its large car relevant in an era of demand for more fuel-efficient vehicles.

The local car maker has made some subtle design revisions to Australia's perennial number-one-selling car but bigger changes have been made under the skin to help reduce consumption.

Fuel economy improvements range from two per cent for the base model Omega to 12 per cent for V8 models, though the headline change is the ability for the Commodore's 3.0-litre V6 and 6.0-litre V8 engines to run on E85 fuel - a blend of 85 per cent ethanol and 15 per cent petrol.

Holden says the introduction of E85 is about future-proofing the Commodore and maintaining its appeal to fleet buyers who are increasingly focusing on fuel efficient models.

"We need to keep evolving what Commodore stands for," says Holden's marketing director, Philip Brook. "E85 delivers on Holden's promise of energy diversity.

"From a customer's point of view there is no downside to E85 capability. We expect the availability of ethanol to be widespread."

E85 availability will be extremely limited in the short term, however. Caltex only last month announced the country's first 'Bio E-flex' E85 pumps, launched in Australia. Holden has also admitted the fuel won't save buyers money. While E85 will be about 20 cents cheaper than regular unleaded, ethanol has a higher consumption rate than petrol.

Holden says E85 could reduce the Commodore's emissions by up to 40 per cent compared with an all-petrol model. The company says the Commodore will produce more power and torque when running on E85.

It says mid-range pulling power is increased by between six and nine per cent - equating to about a 20Nm increase for the 3.0L V6.

The company's director for energy and environment, Richard Marshall, says while petrol and diesel will continue to be the fuel mainstays over the next couple of decades E85 could displace up to 30 per cent of Australia's energy demands in the same period.

"[We are] taking our first step here to change Australia's fuel landscape," says Marshall. "We clearly need to reduce our dependence on petroleum. We have to be able to supply affordable transport.

"[And] if you ask who's concerned about the environment, they [customers] all raise their hands."

The Commodore's 3.0-litre 'SIDI' V6 and V8 engines had to be recalibrated to accept the ethanol-dominant E85 fuel, which involved 500,000km of testing.

The engines feature toughened components, a new fuel pump and control module, and incorporate a flex fuel sensor that continually monitors the mix of ethanol and petrol during driving.

All Commodore engines will be E85 capable when Holden's locally built 3.6-litre V6 adopts similar changes in 2012.

Other minor changes include a lower idle speed for the current 3.6, new lower-rolling-resistance tyres and a taller fifth gear for the V8 also aimed at bringing incremental improvements in consumption even when running on petrol.