Countdown to new LPG I6 - Page 3

jpd80 · 21-02-2011, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

interesting choice of wording. i'm sure they spend all their time just stuffing around out back having a good ol' laugh.

It was a prod to evoke a response like yours...

You tell me then, they originally had LILPG slated for last September before further delaying it.
Yes, there's still work to do to but did Ford really think that Holden wouldn't do a dedicated LILPG?
Now, there's a real chance that Holden will jump in front and steal their thunder
all because they didn't put more priority on LILPG almost three years ago....(yes, that long ago)

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoweredByCNG

Guys,

Dedicated Liquid LPG Injection has been possible in Europe and North America for years. One example of how the purge can work is the system can be wired to start purging the moment the driver's door is opened. By the time the driver gets into the car and makes him/herself comfortable, the system will have finished purging/priming and be ready to go.

That's the problem, the regulations are outdated and don't allow gas flow
until the key is in the ignition, turned on and engine cranking..

PoweredByCNG · 21-02-2011, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

That's the problem, the regulations are outdated and don't allow gas flow
until the key is in the ignition, turned on and engine cranking..

Trust me, I know perfectly well that the regulations are the problem. I've been complaining about it for years!

Joe5619 · 21-02-2011, 03:47 PM

Will this new system be released with XR6T???

prydey · 21-02-2011, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

It was a prod to evoke a response like yours...

You tell me then, they originally had LILPG slated for last September before further delaying it.

for all i know, they could've spent the best part of the last few years in and out of court trying to get the legislation changed. i doubt the general public would ever know.

and yes, i'm a true blue blood, i will always defend them

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoweredByCNG

One example of how the purge can work is the system can be wired to start purging the moment the driver's door is opened. By the time the driver gets into the car and makes him/herself comfortable, the system will have finished purging/priming and be ready to go.

i wouldn't like this system. does that mean every time i open the door to my car, the system would start priming? there are many times when i go to my car and open the door with no intention of driving anywhere.

Bobman · 21-02-2011, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Will this new system be released with XR6T???

I'm curious too but it doesn't look like offering e-gas on the XR6 sedan has proved too successful. Hopefully it's at least optional at a build stage.

Hopefully the fuel gauge issue that has plagued the AU2-onwards e-gas models is permanently rectified with the new LPG system.

vztrt · 21-02-2011, 05:21 PM

Do we know the time it takes for the system to be ready to start??

For something like 5 seconds you could have a message on the centre screen saying 'Do Not Start' and naturally not allow the car to start. Yes its a pain in the butt, but at least they can get the car out in the market. If this is the only issue.

Bobman · 21-02-2011, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

For something like 5 seconds you could have a message on the centre screen saying 'Do Not Start' and naturally not allow the car to start. Yes its a pain in the butt, but at least they can get the car out in the market. If this is the only issue.

Good thinking. Why not use something like on diesel cars/vans/trucks? Yes, even fire trucks have a glow light or buzzer that prevents starting for a short period.

Surely that could alleviate this "purge" issue.

jpd80 · 21-02-2011, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

for all i know, they could've spent the best part of the last few years in and out of court trying to get the legislation changed. i doubt the general public would ever know.

and yes, i'm a true blue blood, i will always defend them

What messed up the time line was the two years trying to adapt the V6 to the Falcon before reinstating the I-6.

jpd80 · 21-02-2011, 06:08 PM

But in hindsight I'd prefer the boys gave us a New Territory complete with diesel engine.
Maybe it was a simple choice in the end, Territory had waited long enough and went ahead of the LILPG....

prydey · 21-02-2011, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

Do we know the time it takes for the system to be ready to start??

For something like 5 seconds you could have a message on the centre screen saying 'Do Not Start' and naturally not allow the car to start. Yes its a pain in the butt, but at least they can get the car out in the market. If this is the only issue.

i don't know the specifics, but i would think its closer to 25sec, rather than 5 sec. i know the dual fuel systems don't switch to lpg for a bit more than that, but i think that may be temp related.

i would say the issue is the aussie laws, not the system. while the law is in place, its a bit hard to get around it.

grandpa_spec_F6 · 21-02-2011, 07:19 PM

Ford seem reluctant to put e-gas into any of the higher end cars.

When I was looking at a G6ET I asked if they would offer an e-gas version, or if the warranty would be honoured if I put gas on it.... I got 3 resounding "NO!"'s from the sales people.

EDManual · 21-02-2011, 08:36 PM

Hi again, the car had the copper bar on the front number plate (thats a ford test car), the cars that are just driving around as a fleet car have a copper round circle on the front number plate.

Thats how I know.

EDManual · 21-02-2011, 08:42 PM

took a photo of it.

From front you could see the copper bar.

Bobman · 21-02-2011, 09:29 PM

Something odd about that ute.

Engine number has "JGCM" rather than the common "JGSW".

Edit: After more digging, that seems to be common on the new utes.

Bossxr8 · 21-02-2011, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grandpa_spec_au

Ford seem reluctant to put e-gas into any of the higher end cars.

When I was looking at a G6ET I asked if they would offer an e-gas version, or if the warranty would be honoured if I put gas on it.... I got 3 resounding "NO!"'s from the sales people.

It won't be offered on turbos, its the one version only.

E Gas was available on the G6E.

Quicksand · 28-02-2011, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Unless Holden jumps in front with their dedicated LILPG V6 Commodore,
I can't believe Ford is still dithering around with such an important engine...

I believe Holden are currently developing Vapour Injection, not LiLPG. Bossxr8 is right. This Ford single fuel system will be the first of its kind. Thats why they need to take the time to get it right.

Quote:

A new, dedicated LPG Commodore is set for release later this year, but, unlike the Ford Falcon liquid injection system developed with Orbital, the Holden vehicle will still use gas injection. GoAuto understands that Holden is already looking at the potential of liquid injection for introduction at a later date.

Source: John Mellors GoAutoNews, Feb 23, 2011, No. 569.

For me...i would love to buy an XR8 on LiLPG. It doesn't have to be supercharged. I admire the fact that you can get a Holden V8 on LPG from factory.

Racecraft · 28-02-2011, 04:49 PM

LPg is old news.. the systems might have come along way but to the commercial buyers...ie fleet and taxi operators hybrids are the big ticket now

THe new Avalon/Camry hybrid is cheaper to run than any car on LPG, not that this is Ford/Holdens fault it is the goverment hitting us to hard @ the bowser.

Bobman · 28-02-2011, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racecraft

THe new Avalon/Camry hybrid is cheaper to run than any car on LPG, not that this is Ford/Holdens fault it is the goverment hitting us to hard @ the bowser.

Give it a year or two and we might see $1 a litre for LPG.

Bloody ridiculous but the cries go unanswered compared to when petrol prices rise!

jpd80 · 28-02-2011, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racecraft

LPg is old news.. the systems might have come along way but to the commercial buyers...ie fleet and taxi operators hybrids are the big ticket now

THe new Avalon/Camry hybrid is cheaper to run than any car on LPG, not that this is Ford/Holdens fault it is the goverment hitting us to hard @ the bowser.

Unfortunately, hybrid's don't appear to be flying off the showroom floor like the government hoped,
even fleet buyers are still a little cautious unless they can see a definite return on the extra cost
most are still opting for 4-cylinder or LPG 6-cylinder or diesel for commercials.

JPFS1 · 28-02-2011, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EDManual

Hi again, the car had the copper bar on the front number plate (thats a ford test car), the cars that are just driving around as a fleet car have a copper round circle on the front number plate.

Thats how I know.

Not quite, the cars you see with the circle on the plate are lease cars to eligible staff up to a certain level, the ones with the rectangular tags are of certain levels above previously stated, usually of management level and have access to 2 lease cars

.

PoweredByCNG · 01-03-2011, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

i wouldn't like this system. does that mean every time i open the door to my car, the system would start priming? there are many times when i go to my car and open the door with no intention of driving anywhere.

Yes, but where's the problem? You're not going to use any gas until the engine starts cranking anyway.

Bossxr8 · 02-03-2011, 08:26 PM

Based on what i've seen LiLPG will be available on XT, G6, G6E, XR6 and Falcon ute, R6 and XR6.

Quicksand · 03-03-2011, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racecraft

LPg is old news.. the systems might have come along way but to the commercial buyers...ie fleet and taxi operators hybrids are the big ticket now

THe new Avalon/Camry hybrid is cheaper to run than any car on LPG, not that this is Ford/Holdens fault it is the goverment hitting us to hard @ the bowser.

I would love to see an LiLPG Hybrid. Best of both worlds.

vztrt · 22-03-2011, 07:24 PM

Ok, Ford confirmed LIPG model on sale in July.

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...25785B002172E2

Quote:

Ford has revealed the new-generation Liquid Phase Injection (LPI) LPG system for its Falcon will go on sale earlier than expected in July, while the updated 2012 Falcon continues to be on target for release in September or October.

jpd80 · 22-03-2011, 07:48 PM

Basically what Bossxr8 has been saying for a while now........

spvd02 · 22-03-2011, 08:08 PM

If the regulations were such a problem, Ford could maybe get around it by developing a vapour/liquid injection system, where it would start on LPG vapour fed by a sub-tank, while waiting for the liquid system to purge, then switch over to liquid operation.

Just an idea. Would be complex though, one would think.

PoweredByCNG · 22-03-2011, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spvd02

If the regulations were such a problem, Ford could maybe get around it by developing a vapour/liquid injection system, where it would start on LPG vapour fed by a sub-tank, while waiting for the liquid system to purge, then switch over to liquid operation.

Just an idea. Would be complex though, one would think.

The thing that would restrict this sort of a setup would be the capabilities of the ECU and LPG injectors.

spvd02 · 22-03-2011, 10:34 PM

I wonder what kind of economy figures it will produce. One would hope it'd get into the 12's combined, as the after-market Orbital dual fuel system for the FG is rated at 14.4L/100 . Whilst this is reasonable, I can't help but think it could do better. Guess we'll wait and see.

vztrt · 22-03-2011, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spvd02

I wonder what kind of economy figures it will produce. One would hope it'd get into the 12's combined, as the after-market Orbital dual fuel system for the FG is rated at 14.4L/100 . Whilst this is reasonable, I can't help but think it could do better. Guess we'll wait and see.

Thought it was like 1L/100k more then the petrol version.

Road_Warrior · 22-03-2011, 10:52 PM

I'm actually curious to see what has been resolved with the tank/spare wheel packaging...