Greatest FPV Ever ?

[DJR-351]

Had to go with the W427 due to the narrow field of choices....but even that was a stretch with my "Traditional Definition" of what a "Muscle Car" is....

[gtxb67]

the best muscle cars made in australia would be the phase 3 and the w427

i know i am biased, but does anyone actually know what the W427 is. the mclaren and veyron were known by most before they were even made. i am not sure many holden fans actually know much about the 427. it is a pity, because it was probably an amazing car, if not that smart for the manufacturer. i know the mclaren did not sell that many, and it's success is not measured on sales, because they at least raced (and won). how many of the 427's have actually been driven or are they just being held onto in the hope they will appreciate to the same degree as phase 3's. this point is a little relevant, because most of the phase 3's were bought to be driven and driven hard. that (as well as racetrack success) is part of their mystique. for all of it's brilliance, the 427 is almost sterile. i do wonder how many will actually want the 427 in years to come - want and being prepared to pay for one are 2 different things

[Sunburst 335]

I can't see how the W427 can be the best aussie muscle car, it may have the best suspension, tyres and nice red interior with all the gadigest ie laurnch control etc, but is missing something that it should have and thats Horse Power,grunt at the wheels sure it is said too have 380 kw 500 hp at fly wheel, but at the wheels - 286 as dynoed by CV Performace Perth, Ran 12.5 Kwinana motorplex and said to be fastest stock 427. Also sonnymad user name holden tuner ran stock 427 on his dyno before modes 293 kw all these runs can be found on youtube under W427. So the gt-gtp and fg f6 both can do 12.4s as posted stock standard and the gt puts out 317 to 330 kw at wheels, so gt-p easy. 150 k 427 rip off

[FPVGT500]

The new 5.0 Miami best bfyb car with performance to much and as someone has posted the W427 doesnt make the quoted power its advertised as, if you want a real 427 look up Fords SOHC 427, cant forget the F6 too it will dissapoint a W427

[HSVKILLA]

Originally Posted by Sunburst 335

I can't see how the W427 can be the best aussie muscle car, it may have the best suspension, tyres and nice red interior with all the gadigest ie laurnch control etc, but is missing something that it should have and thats Horse Power,grunt at the wheels sure it is said too have 380 kw 500 hp at fly wheel, but at the wheels - 286 as dynoed by CV Performace Perth, Ran 12.5 Kwinana motorplex and said to be fastest stock 427. Also sonnymad user name holden tuner ran stock 427 on his dyno before modes 293 kw all these runs can be found on youtube under W427. So the gt-gtp and fg f6 both can do 12.4s as posted stock standard and the gt puts out 317 to 330 kw at wheels, so gt-p easy. 150 k 427 rip off

Like you say,i checked it out for myself on you tube and was left with a ,so much for the claimed power ratings??.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by Sunburst 335

I can't see how the W427 can be the best aussie muscle car, it may have the best suspension, tyres and nice red interior with all the gadigest ie laurnch control etc, but is missing something that it should have and thats Horse Power,grunt at the wheels sure it is said too have 380 kw 500 hp at fly wheel, but at the wheels - 286 as dynoed by CV Performace Perth, Ran 12.5 Kwinana motorplex and said to be fastest stock 427. Also sonnymad user name holden tuner ran stock 427 on his dyno before modes 293 kw all these runs can be found on youtube under W427. So the gt-gtp and fg f6 both can do 12.4s as posted stock standard and the gt puts out 317 to 330 kw at wheels, so gt-p easy. 150 k 427 rip off

I cant make any sense of that post what so ever.
So what if a GT has 317-330RWKW it isnt in the same league as a W427 IMO.

Edit- im not taking anything away from the GT335 and its owners at all the new 5.0GT is a very capable car.

[FPVGT500]

The GT will get on the torque way earlier before the big donk wakes up.

[FreddyDUZ747]

Originally Posted by FPVGT500

The GT will get on the torque way earlier before the big donk wakes up.

And the W427 will laugh going past the 335 with inadequate suspension and flogged out brakes after half a dozen laps.

Neither can have all their cake and eat it imo,one just gets the extra slice for me.Was a tuff call for me this one tbh,the more complete package came out on top.

[davenl5l]

the w427 might be fast etc. but like all cars built by hsv its butt ugly.and the new black (white) series looks like a startled storm trooper!!

[FPVGT500]

Originally Posted by FreddyDUZ747

And the W427 will laugh going past the 335 with inadequate suspension and flogged out brakes after half a dozen laps.

Neither can have all their cake and eat it imo,one just gets the extra slice for me.Was a tuff call for me this one tbh,the more complete package came out on top.

Im with you on that one, but in 1/4 different story

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by Sunburst 335

I can't see how the W427 can be the best aussie muscle car, it may have the best suspension, tyres and nice red interior with all the gadigest ie laurnch control etc, but is missing something that it should have and thats Horse Power,grunt at the wheels sure it is said too have 380 kw 500 hp at fly wheel, but at the wheels - 286 as dynoed by CV Performace Perth, Ran 12.5 Kwinana motorplex and said to be fastest stock 427. Also sonnymad user name holden tuner ran stock 427 on his dyno before modes 293 kw all these runs can be found on youtube under W427. So the gt-gtp and fg f6 both can do 12.4s as posted stock standard and the gt puts out 317 to 330 kw at wheels, so gt-p easy. 150 k 427 rip off

Welcome to the forum and a fantastic first post Totally agree, the W427 is over-rated, over-hyped and brazenly over-priced.

Muscle car to me suggests, real muscle at real world revs on the street where cars are actually driven, i.e. its the real world muscle that counts not its durability on the track. It implies real muscle across the full rev spectrum, which I'm not so sure the W427 has in spades like the new SC FPV's and for that matter the F6 too.
Real world performance - 80-120 acceleration times
SC GT-P 2.51 seconds
Jaguar XFR 2.50 seconds
F6 2.64 seconds
G6ET 2.89 seconds
W427 3.22 seconds

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Muscle car to me suggests, real muscle at real world revs on the street where cars are actually driven, i.e. its the real world muscle that counts not its durability on the track.

there is the problem - everyone has a different perception of what a muscle car is - to me no 6 cylinder can be a muscle car, because quite simply, they do not have the "muscle" to tow a full loaded inboard ski boat (or something as heavy) as well as the v8 counterpart. an xu-1 towing a boat . . . ha ha ha. even the turbo 6 ford produce is not muscle - otherwise, we could consider wrx's and the like as muscle. they have perfectly usuable rev ranges too


i hate to say, but muscle car or not, the w427 is the best australian car since the phase 3. whether or not it has the romance associated with it as the phase 3 had is irrelevant. the phase 3 is like a mclaren f1 road car. the w427 is like the veyron. both great for what they are

the w427 does nothing for me - it is overpriced and ugly - but it would hose off any other car australia has built. some of us like to go around corners too. 13 seconds of fun is good, but hardly the sole criteria for judging a car. unless the 1/4 is the only time the w427 could be made to look anything but 1st rate. don't get me wrong, the turbo 6 and now probably the s/c 8 is an awesome piece of engineering and full credit to ford for having a vehicle that would go so close to the 427 with a fraction of the capacity. however credit needs to go to hsv for the simple fact that they had the balls to build that car, even if it was a stupid thing to do in monetary terms

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

the w427 does nothing for me - it is overpriced and ugly - but it would hose off any other car australia has built. some of us like to go around corners too. 13 seconds of fun is good, but hardly the sole criteria for judging a car. unless the 1/4 is the only time the w427 could be made to look anything but 1st rate. don't get me wrong, the turbo 6 and now probably the s/c 8 is an awesome piece of engineering and full credit to ford for having a vehicle that would go so close to the 427 with a fraction of the capacity. however credit needs to go to hsv for the simple fact that they had the balls to build that car, even if it was a stupid thing to do in monetary terms

[Stefan]

Moffat would say a Camry is the greatest muscle car is Toyota paid him.

None in the list even qualify as muscle cars, Ford stopped building muscle cars in 1973.

No further discussion required.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by Stefan

None in the list even qualify as muscle cars, Ford stopped building muscle cars in 1973.

No further discussion required.

Case in point, we cant even agree what a muscle car is.
Yeah thats your opinion, your entitled to it whilst i disagree doesnt make me right either.

[mik]

well if we to be absolutely pure about it, the only true Aussie muscle cars where the one`s that where absolutley brutal to drive and probably to a degree dangerous and had a racing heritage,
and that would cover many of the older cars, they went quick for there day , they did`nt corner or brake well by todays standards and the wilder real track beasts could be temperamental, lets face it any of these modern big power machines you could give your grandma to drive to pick up the shopping and she would`nt even know she was in a factory hotrod, the mere fact that the w427 is a more expensive toy better set up for the track and limited edition makes the GT335 which is a blistering fast grand tourer and also having the price/family sedan compromise surely makes the GT closer to the older muscle cars imo.
so therefore GT335 for the modern day win .

[turbo4me]

I think the best poll would be The best Aussie performance car under $100k. Might as well ask which is the best performance car in Aussie

[mcnews]

The only way a modern FPV or HSV could really be called a muscle car by anyone, is if those people have never actually driven a muscle car.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by mcnews

The only way a modern FPV or HSV could really be called a muscle car by anyone, is if those people have never actually driven a muscle car.

I have...

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by mik

and that would cover many of the older cars, they went quick for there day , they did`nt corner or brake well by todays standards

but they cornered and braked well for their day's standards. while i do not really disagree with stefan's post, i would still go as far as saying the new crop are muscle cars or no australian cars were. the americans had muscle cars that went fast in a straight line. they also had cars that were not muscle that went around corners with an albeit smaller engine

muscle cars are american 2 door cars that are built for street and drag racing purposes. they were brutal to drive and they did not have creature comforts or a great need to go around corners - therefore no australian cars are muscle, unless the perception has been changed and, my wouldn't that open a can of worms - oh it already has

we all have slightly different perceptions, so the term is somewhat redundant. let's just look at them for what they are - great cars

Originally Posted by mcnews

The only way a modern FPV or HSV could really be called a muscle car by anyone, is if those people have never actually driven a muscle car.

is that a big block american 2 door or a car that the american's would laugh at when mentioned in the same sentence as their muscle cars

[DJR-351]

I might also add........"and sold at an affordable price"

[Rodge]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4YeH...eature=related
W427 293rwkw's

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTa4S...eature=related
W427 286 rwkw's

And now that you've witnessed some obvious fake claims by HSV regarding an alledged output of 375 kw's lets have a look at a REAL muscle car

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-KoOnCJEkg
GT 353 rwkw's

And lets hear it in action, turn your sound up and enjoy:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5n_lno5RvLU

Seems to go around corners pretty well to me

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by Rodge

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4YeH...eature=related
W427 293rwkw's

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTa4S...eature=related
W427 286 rwkw's

Still doesnt change my opinion though its not all about dyno runs really. But honestly i would have expected more though.

[stev3n]

4.1 cortina without power steer driven on a wet road?

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by Rodge

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4YeH...eature=related
W427 293rwkw's

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTa4S...eature=related
W427 286 rwkw's

And now that you've witnessed some obvious fake claims by HSV regarding an alledged output of 375 kw's lets have a look at a REAL muscle car

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-KoOnCJEkg
GT 353 rwkw's

And lets hear it in action, turn your sound up and enjoy:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5n_lno5RvLU

Seems to go around corners pretty well to me

Sorry mate, but are you asking peoples opinion or just trying to convince them that your opinion is the right one....

[SSD-85]

The W427 was a commodore with a 7L V8 dropped in it. The GT is a Falcon with a blown 5L V8 dropped in it. The key difference here is that the GT is half the price, to the best of my knowledge muscle cars were originally intended to offer high performance at a low price. Otherwise people paid the premium to get a sports car.
The W427 offers nothing except an empty wallet & a butt whooping from your local GT.

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by Scotty85

to the best of my knowledge muscle cars were originally intended to offer high performance at a low price

i seriously doubt that muscle cars were designed to be cheap. back in the sixties they just dropped a massive engine into a basic car. the cost was low, because it was stripped of most things that were considered luxuries to keep the weight low and therefore make it faster


if cost was a factor then the phase 3 was not a muscle car. it was over $5000 at a time when a house and land package could be had for $13,000. the same house that was $13,000 is probably valued at around $500,000 now, so the w427 looks cheap in comparison

[SpoolMan]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

there is the problem - everyone has a different perception of what a muscle car is - to me no 6 cylinder can be a muscle car, because quite simply, they do not have the "muscle" to tow a full loaded inboard ski boat (or something as heavy) as well as the v8 counterpart. an xu-1 towing a boat . . . ha ha ha. even the turbo 6 ford produce is not muscle -

Yeah you don't need muscle to run 10 sec passes with factory engines, you just need speed..
The HEMI E38 Valiant Charger was a 6 cyl muscle car that also had an era of showing the 8's who is the Boss....

[Stav]

A modified one lol

[FreddyDUZ747]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxG0v...eature=related

Nearly 119mph on 20" rims stock as rock.Its def putting out more than what Rodge has conveniently posted or are we all taking dynos for the true horsepower indicator.These arent featherweights either.

Rodge,what did the 427 do to you lol.