Attempted HOME INVASION for my FPV F6. - Page 3

Scott · 02-02-2012, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serial_Fool

And the National Firearms Agreement of 1996 that all the states signed says self defense is not a valid reason for owning or using a firearm and mandates by law firearms have to be within a gun safe when not in use and ammunition in a seperate, locked container.

................ If you are being shot at, you probably still can't shoot because you're too busy trying to get the damn gun safe open, reassemble the bolt, and insert ammunition.

Except the silly buggers broke in whilst I was cleaning or servicing it. I was just about to put it in the car and head down to the range.... Damned unlucky timing that.

Rules are rules, but the best laid schemes of mice and men.....

Serial_Fool · 02-02-2012, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott

Except the silly buggers broke in whilst I was cleaning or servicing it. I was just about to put it in the car and head down to the range.... Damned unlucky timing that.

Rules are rules, but the best laid schemes of mice and men.....

Having a weapon "at hand".... "accidentally".... for the purpose of self defense, even like you are saying with cleaning your shotgun (or for instance, picking up kitchen knife to meet an intruder), is a big no no.

If you kill or hurt the intruder, it is on you to prove that he posed an immediate threat to your life with the same or more force you used to incapacitate him.

This stuff is all uniform throughout the British Commonwealth, so carrying anything with the intent for self defense is a crime, no matter if you're in Canada, Britain or New Zealand. This is why if you're caught with a pocketknife on you a "lawful excuse" does not include self defense.

And when I say "anything" I literally mean ANYTHING. Hair spray even if you say it is for that purpose.

svo347 · 02-02-2012, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott

Just wow.

Invest in a hook - hang the keys on the letterbox.

It seems odd that they would carry a used syringe throughout the whole thing though - why would you when you're trying to bust a door down? It seems to me that there is more to this than pinching a getaway car. Not suggesting the OP has any skeletons, but the level of desperation does not fit the crime.

You would have an infinitely better chance of getting the car by knocking on the door and asking for it. I know I'd happily hand over the keys and give them a quick demo on the satnav if required.

Good job on protecting the family anyway mate, it's what we're here to do and what you've done well.

Given the time the cops arrive at a scene in Perth, they would have known they have easily 10+ mins before they show unless theres a car in the immediate area

ltd_on20s · 02-02-2012, 01:36 AM

without doubt, i would attempt to kill anyone who enters my house uninvited.

even if it meant going to jail.

it's called prinicpal. they should'nt be allowed to get away and try the same thing in another street on some other poor soul.

put a 350gr arrow through the guy trying to climb through the window.

ltd_on20s · 02-02-2012, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geez Louise

Chainsaw in the house? Seriously?

Well you better be good at using it because just as you see it as a way to protect yourself, it could actually be used against you too.

Having your house broken into when you are not home is devestating enough but to have it happen whilst you are there would be much worse. If I personally had someone break into my house and threaten me...I would tell them to take whatever they want. Possessions are just that...possessions and are replaceable. Humans aren't and who knows what someone who is desperate is willing to do.

possesions might be replaceable, but what about the mental and physical trauma that comes after?

the living in fear? the inability to sleep after?

these people learn only one way. sledgehammer force.

falconnut · 02-02-2012, 02:54 AM

To those of you who think its that easy to just back down...

When you know that if you could get killed very easily if they get in your house, why advise op to do nothing? Alot of bs in this thread, i genuinely feel for op but i cant be bothered with the stupid comments.

Anyway i recommend everyone watch Straw Dogs (the original 1971 version, not the remake) especially the people who just want to be all nice and compliant and give the criminals what they want.

**GazzF6** · 02-02-2012, 03:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltd_on20s

possesions might be replaceable, but what about the mental and physical trauma that comes after?

the living in fear? the inability to sleep after?

these people learn only one way. sledgehammer force.

+1 What if was a case of mistaken identity? They are there to just to bash you? If you have a gun put one round in the intruder first, and then another in the roof, tell the police you fired a warning shot and the intruder kept coming at you.. State that you were in fear of your own, and your family's life and acted in Self defence, reasonable logic will always take precedence over reasonable force, that's what jury's are for. When children are involved can you really afford to take your chances, big difference between Justice and the Law, ones about fairness, and the other about money & power.. Just glad to hear the OP survived this shocking encounter, honestly it's one of the things the Americans can see reason with, the right to bear arms, to protect their family in "their" own homes, you come in uninvited, you don't leave, when told to, you get shot! Simple, effective and justified.

turbodewd · 02-02-2012, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CFOUR

this is why guns should be legal for home & personal defense.

Are you sure u want to end up with annual gun death stats just like in the USA? Are you really sure you want that here? Sounds utterly retarded to me

Just give break and enter offences much stiffer sentences - 10 years. Then you would see a lot less.

prasac · 02-02-2012, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WWF6 310

+1 What if was a case of mistaken identity? They are there to just to bash you? If you have a gun put one round in the intruder first, and then another in the roof, tell the police you fired a warning shot and the intruder kept coming at you...

that was what the Police told my father, he chased some guys that tried to break in, he grabbed the gun and started shooting at them as they were running down the street

my old man didn't speak english, he just said ''get gun and shoot bastards'' the cop put in his statement, victim fired warning shot to scare the intruders off

if you stab them or something, there is always the ''intruder was carrying a knife, i disarmed him, but they continued at me, i stabbed him in self defence''

even if it's ur knife, tell 'em the intruder found it and came at you.

dogs like that deserve to die, it may not affect you as much, but, your wife and kids may be affected alot worse. stops them from doing it to someone else also, next home invasion they try may be more serious.

you have to be either stupid or have a big set of balls to try and break in for 5mins, in a situation like that 5mins feels like an eternity. they sound like they were idiots anyway. being junkies i'm surprised they didn't go on the nod trying to break in

xisled · 02-02-2012, 09:28 AM

Glad to see that no one was hurt.

Get a metal bar and put one at each entrance of the house.

MAD · 02-02-2012, 09:36 AM

Self defense all comes down to reaonable force. If you can come up with a decent reason why shooting them was within 'reasonable force' then you're fine.

To the OP, you did extremely well. I can only hope that if the same circumstance was to ever befall me, that I would have the same level of control and clarity that you seemed to have.

Like others, I don't know what I would do, but I'm sure the ultimate punishment would cross my mind. The trauma that 4 people have suffered is ongoing, the punishment for break and enter does not fit the suffering. These guys need a real shakeup and if that ultimately leads to death, well then so be it, the world won't be worse off for it.

ltd_on20s · 02-02-2012, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbodewd

Are you sure u want to end up with annual gun death stats just like in the USA? Are you really sure you want that here? Sounds utterly retarded to me

Just give break and enter offences much stiffer sentences - 10 years. Then you would see a lot less.

and when they come out they are a better and more violent breed of criminal then when they went in.

corporal punishment.

attempted theft and break and enter - 100 lashes.

second offence - 250 lashes

third offence - your hand comes off.

promise it would take three people to have this happen to before crime drops 50+ %.

Ben73 · 02-02-2012, 09:43 AM

I think the people suggesting to just let them take what they want is a flawed way to look at it.

Imagine someone is smashing in your back door with a piece of wood and a shovel. How do you know if they are coming in to kill you and your family, or just coming in to steal your car keys and your watch?
Are you going to ask them what they want, then just open the door for them if they they say they wont hurt you? Because someone smashing in you back door is obviously an honest person and you can take the word of an honest person right?

Once the scum bag has gone out of their way to get inside YOUR house and put your safety at risk, you should be able to defend yourself with any weapon you choose. No one is forcing them to be in your house, they deserve what they have coming.

blk6t · 02-02-2012, 09:50 AM

Gees, that is very concerning and quite scary. Not only the initial attempt at planning to break in, but they kept persisting to break in, that scares me the most. Very sorry to hear that!

Touch wood, no one has ever done that to me but I do live in a rural area, people usually try and steal motor bikes from sheds at night.

However, if that happened to me I would out of reaction grab my rifle and take aim, hopefully that would be enough to scare them off. I can't imagine anyone hurting my family so I would do whatever it takes to protect them. The problem for my house is the cops would take 15min to get there at HIGH speed...so no time to wait around.

FPV+fteT3 · 02-02-2012, 10:01 AM

MAD is right self defence comes down to reasonable force required to subdue the agressor any retribution above reasonable defence is questionable in the court system.
Best to follow the line of there are 2 types of people, ones that go looking for trouble and those that are prepared for trouble. Unfortunately not all people are prepared to or have the abilty to fight but you can still be prepared or have a plan for when trouble comes looking for you. Well done to the OP for a good outcome and I know you will be better prepared IF there is a next time.

TIVOOM · 02-02-2012, 10:36 AM

Mate my heart goes out to your children, they are the ones that matter and I hope they are not traumatised by the whole ordeal. The thing is is if they do catch these dogs they will probably get very little Jail time the way our justice system works.

The most sensible statement posted so far was to educate your children on what to do if this ever happens again.

Geez Louise · 02-02-2012, 10:56 AM

I have said that I feel for this situation, and I believe the OP took a stand that he felt was right given the situation. He didn't know they just wanted to take the car. I am not sure if put in the same situation what I would do, however if someone is screaming they want my car keys etc...I would throw them at them. Of course my first instinct would be to protect my family.
What I was trying to convey is that I wouldn't risk my life or that of my family, over a car.

So many times on here I see people saying society has gone mad! Indeed I have said it on various occassions too when you read something that beggers belief however, we are all part of society and if you are not part of the problem, then you need to be part of the solution.

People all too often will post their beliefs on here, but when it comes time to put them into action, nothing happens. Most of us want tougher sentencing, better rehab for people, more understanding, more patience, more tolerance...Just more of everything and yet most are not willing to do anything to help achieve it.

So yep...carry a weapon, take on a crim who is high as a kite, get your bit of justice and then come back and post about how unfair the situation is that you got charged with an offence for causing them injury and how light they got off when caught!

Cheers
Col

TheSneakiness · 02-02-2012, 11:00 AM

I personally would not be able to stop hurting the intruder if they got in and I got the first shot in. You would need ALOT of persuasion and force to hold me back. When I get angry something in my head just keeps telling me to keep going.

Good work in holding them off, you protected your family and managed to save your possessions.

"I hear voices in my head. They come to me, they understand. They talk to me"

2011G6E · 02-02-2012, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riksta

I was reading somewhere just the other day (can't remember where) that it is getting more common for thieves to do home invasions to get car keys.

Seems like all these security upgrades & computer coded keys have made the cars so hard to steal, they now think its quicker and easier to bust into a house, terrorise the occupants and get the keys, and take the car with the keys than it is to break into the car and get it started and get away.

Well done on keeping your family safe, glad to hear your dog's ok. Low life scum really.

Beat me to it...i'd heard that too.

As for "they're only possessions", yes they might be, but they're my possessions...I worked hard to get them, and i'm not just letting some idiot come and take them wihout fighting back just to minimise the chances of said idiot being hurt.
Start hammering your way in my door some night, you'll be met with a gun. If there's no time to unlock the safe, you'll be met with a sword, and unfortunately for you I've been trained and damn well know how to use it...

max_torq · 02-02-2012, 11:51 AM

Well done on the successful defence. At a guess the syringe may have been for threatening whoever they found once they broke in... at least the gun laws we have may have reduced the chances that the attackers had a gun.

Dave3911 · 02-02-2012, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Do as the old urban legend said to do...
When the cops are stalling and asking stupid bloody questions, say "Hold on a moment please", and put the phone down, then drop a heavy book a couple of times on a table beside the phone. Then pick up the phone and say "It's OK, I've shot the bastards...turn up whenever you can", and leave the phone off the hook (but with triple 000 they know who rang anyway).

That seems to bring them pretty damn fast...

Worst. Advice. Ever.

To give perspective, I have worked in 000 call-centers for the Police and Fire brigade for the last decade. Contrary to popular belief, nobody "stalls and asks stupid bloody questions" - there is absolutely no reason to, nobody has anything to hide. What people who call the service don't understand is that just because you are still talking on the phone, doesn't mean the police (and/or any other emergency service) haven't been dispatched.

I can't speak for standards in WA. But if the same call as the OP was taken in Victoria, it would be entered into the system within a maximum of 90 seconds (Note, MAXIMUM, usually a lot less) and then dispatched within a further 90 of that (again, MAXIMUM). Those "stupid questions, that are just wasting time" (I've heard that one thousands of time) aren't wasting any time and if you sit down in the cold light of day and assess what was asked, it's unlikely to be stupid.

You also find that people will complain that they've already told us about certain things and that we are "asking the same thing again". Usually what happens in these circumstances (and it's totally understandable) is that someone screams all the information at you at a million miles an hour. It's next to impossible to cover all bases, so we ask it all again in a controlled manner.

As for the whole "tell them they have a gun" thing. I can tell you 100% (When it comes to Victoria anyway) that the response to someone with a firearm vs. that to an 'Offenders On Aggravated Burglary" is exactly the same. You may actually be shooting yourself in the foot (pardon the pun) as depending on the circumstances and the resources available, procedure for ANY firearm call is to cordon and contain rather than confront the offender if it can be avoided.

Oh and don't get caught with the "000 know where you are anyway" idea. 80% of our calls come from Mobile phones nowadays and no, we have no idea where you are until you tell us. We get a registered address, but there is no guarantee that this is where the caller is. How many people have company phones? Pre-paid phones that they never update the address on? And don't get me started on VOIP.

Best advice with 000. Remain calm. Listen carefully and Answer the questions you're being asked. You might not understand, or agree with why the question is being asked - but is this really the right time to argue the point?

ltd_on20s · 02-02-2012, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave3911

Oh and don't get caught with the "000 know where you are anyway" idea. 80% of our calls come from Mobile phones nowadays and no, we have no idea where you are until you tell us. We get a registered address, but there is no guarantee that this is where the caller is. How many people have company phones? Pre-paid phones that they never update the address on? And don't get me started on VOIP.

Best advice with 000. Remain calm. Listen carefully and Answer the questions you're being asked. You might not understand, or agree with why the question is being asked - but is this really the right time to argue the point?

isnt it 112 from mobile?

Windsor342ci · 02-02-2012, 03:46 PM

Man this has really story has really hit home with me! Thank God, both the valuable cars a locked up in the shed at the rear that are also armed. 2 main gates both padlocked. But still though, being recently married. Seeing the look on my wifes face as she would be scared out of her wits would kill me inside to no end.
I think its time of an German Shepard....

Good to hear man you held your own! be proud of your efforts and level headed thinking at the time. I dont think I could remain as calm as you did and would of been more like a terrorist in my own back yard packing C4 in my pants ready to hit that S***

b055m4n · 02-02-2012, 04:08 PM

WTF is this country coming to....really sorry to hear what you and you're family had to experiance and be proud of how you dealt the situation.

Dave_Obsession · 02-02-2012, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltd_on20s

isnt it 112 from mobile?

You can call 000 or 112....and even 911 I believe - it redirects to 000 in Australia...

EDIT:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

The GSM mobile phone standard designates 112 as an emergency number, so it will work on GSM phones even in North America where GSM systems redirect emergency calls to 911, or Australia where emergency calls are redirected to 000. It is one of two numbers (the other being the region's own emergency number) that can be dialed on most GSM phones even if the phone is locked.

Fords 'R' Cool · 02-02-2012, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GT0132

Thats terrible mate...It's one thing to try and gain entry when the place is empty, but when you're home !!!

Not sure if it's a Perth thing or not, but I heard a similar story on here about a guy in a Perth suburb, Bibra or Bribie Lake (or something) had his FG XR6T stolen and used as a getaway car.

Thanks fellas.

I've been reading comments that hint I should have just handed over the keys to have prevented something???
But you guys were not there and have NO IDEA what you are talking about.

There were no verbal demands from them at all, they were just trying to smash the door down and get inside and I had my wife and two small kids in there. (4yo & 6month.)

Put yourself in my shoes, you have two masked men still trying their best to break down your door and get inside knowing that you have already called the police.
They don't tell you what they want, all you know is that they are desperate to get inside for nothing good.
That tells me that these two were very dangerous and could be capable of anything.
Now would you bend over and just surrender?

Honestly do I care that I 'illegally' armed myself with a big carving knife?
No freaking way and if they had tried to climb up through the window (I held the higher ground.) I know I would have used lethal force against them without hesitation.

Sorry but I wasn't gambling with my family's safety and just hope they wouldn't get hurt if we cooperated with them.
And if I had killed one or both and had to go to gaol for it, then pack my bags.
It's a very small price I'm willing pay when it comes to ensuring the safety of my missus and kids.

You can't imagine how glad I am it actually never came to that but I don't regret any of my actions and would do it all again if I was forced into the same situation.

Lets just hope it's the first and the last time I see them.
(Unless it's at their court trial.)

Windsor342ci · 02-02-2012, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fords 'R' Cool

Thanks fellas.

I've been reading comments that hint I should have just handed over the keys to have prevented something???
But you guys were not there and have NO IDEA what you are talking about.

There were no verbal demands from them at all, they were just trying to smash the door down and get inside and I had my wife and two small kids in there. (4yo & 6month.)

Put yourself in my shoes, you have two masked men still trying their best to break down your door and get inside knowing that you have already called the police.
They don't tell you what they want, all you know is that they are desperate to get inside for nothing good.
That tells me that these two were very dangerous and could be capable of anything.
Now would you bend over and just surrender?

Honestly do I care that I 'illegally' armed myself with a big carving knife?
No freaking way and if they had tried to climb up through the window (I held the higher ground.) I know I would have used lethal force against them without hesitation.

Sorry but I wasn't gambling with my family's safety and just hope they wouldn't get hurt if we cooperated with them.
And if I had killed one or both and had to go to gaol for it, then pack my bags.
It's a very small price I'm willing pay when it comes to ensuring the safety of my missus and kids.

You can't imagine how glad I am it actually never came to that but I don't regret any of my actions and would do it all again if I was forced into the same situation.

Lets just hope it's the first and the last time I see them.
(Unless it's at their court trial.)

Dude,

You done the right thing and ******* what anybody else says! Knife in one hand and cheese grater in another getting ready to start hacking there faces away! You dont the right thing mate. Better then most. Some would of cowarded, and others (like myself) would of went running outside making a mess of the situation ending in a bloody mascare!

You done well friend!!!

prasac · 02-02-2012, 04:27 PM

might be someone you have crossed paths with at sometime. u might have recognised them by the voice, if they said something. you coulda met them anywhere like shopping centre, car show, work etc etc.

my brothers wife got carjacked (was only a Holden

), she parks in a carpark that is security controlled, 2 other cars got ripped from there. brother went down to have a few words with the security guard on duty (he suspected the guard). guard didn't turn up for work after that, turned out it was his cousin's/friends etc doing the thieving.

steve.zissou · 02-02-2012, 04:30 PM

Mate, your ahead of the game buy having the security lights and a door that they couldnt get through (eeven though it required you behind it). All home security does is buy you time.
I think you did pretty dam well!!!!
I doesnt matter what security you have, if some one holds a knife (or shovel to you kid) and asks for you keys - you are going to give it to them (and tell them were the kill switch is.

I tell every one that the best defence is (besides lights and locks) is a good dog. This is better than a bat or a gun any day. The other thing is be situationly aware (which you did perfectly).

Think twice before trying to defend with a weapon, not because of the legal implications (i think you'd be covered in this case due to disparity of force) but if you miss or they get hold of the weapon you'd be in real trouble. training cant be over emphasised.

Now think of this - what if they were waiting for you when you arrived home???? All i know,is that if my dog doesn't come out to greet me, something is wrong

once again - you handled it bloody well - hope they catch those guys (not that the punishment will be strong enough)

Auslandau · 02-02-2012, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbodewd

Are you sure u want to end up with annual gun death stats just like in the USA? Are you really sure you want that here? Sounds utterly retarded to me

Just give break and enter offences much stiffer sentences - 10 years. Then you would see a lot less.

Even of it was the death penalty these nutters wouldn't care. In their tiny brains they never think "if we get caught X might happen". To them it's doing the crime and thinking they will always get away with it and then totally dumb founded when they are actually caught! Death penalty doesn't deter drugs on Bali!