Are "classic" car prices sustainable

[mike_nofx]

Originally Posted by ebxr8240

So moral of the story is look after that Prius !!!

The Prius may well be a collectible car in the future... Much like the Reliant Robin or Ford Pinto.

People will look back in 40 years time and laugh at the battery powered car that uses more petrol than petrol-only powered cars in its class AND its ugly as a hat full of *********.

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by RAPID_BA

I saw the other day a old lady at woolworths chucking her shopping in the boot of a XB Coupe. Looked in pretty reasonable condition in yellow.

If I stopped and offered her $1500 for it, she probably would have jumped at it and ran for the hills.

Might wait for it next week, buy it and sell it on for $15,000+

If you stopped and offered her 1500 bucks ,she would probably beat some brains into you with her handbag .........

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by RedHotGT

Well here's my 2-cents....

Classic Cars in general are not very good 'investments' in the long run. Once you've calculated the cost of keeping (rego, insurance, maintenance, etc) as well as the fluctuating demand on makes/models, and the added variable of the global financial woes, you're probably better off putting the money in the bank.... or buying gold, a house, something else.

New aren't any better .....
New cars what 45 grand , looking at anywhere from 700 - 1,000 a month payments (depending on loan term ,give or take )
By the time paid off, your probably spent well over 50/55 grand or more, for something that in 3,4 years time ,lucky to be worth 20,25 grand
Mite be 3,4 years trouble free motoring,if your lucky , but your paying for the convenience, a lot of convenience coming from the hip pocket ....
Went looking at new recently, at just over 8 grand a year payments, im considering keeping my oldie ,if you call 97 an oldie

[big_landau]

all these people who reckon the market for classic cars is shot better get a price check on their ea's/au's and fg falcons cause if you think classic car prices have dropped you better check out what these non restorable cars are now worth!
better brace yourself you may get a shock straight to the spinal cord!

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by big_landau

all these people who reckon the market for classic cars is shot better get a price check on their ea's/au's and fg falcons cause if you think classic car prices have dropped you better check out what these non restorable cars are now worth!
better brace yourself you may get a shock straight to the spinal cord!

Who said that the market for classic cars is shot?

There will always be a market for classic cars. The market will, however, get smaller for each era as time goes on. In the 70s a classic car was a 40s model. It's all relative. How many people here lust over cars of the 40s? Nowhere near as many as those that lust over the muscle/classic cars of the 60s and 70s. It's called nostalgia. I'm guilty of it myself. I spent ages finding the right P6 LTD, down to the colour, because some of my best memories were of me in my uncle's P6 when I was a kid.

And what do you mean by non restorable? All cars are restorable.

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by big_landau

all these people who reckon the market for classic cars is shot better get a price check on their ea's/au's and fg falcons cause if you think classic car prices have dropped you better check out what these non restorable cars are now worth!
better brace yourself you may get a shock straight to the spinal cord!

And I know what you're trying to say here, but how quickly we forget when classics bottomed out in price. When you couldn't give away an XB coupe.

[RAPID_BA]

Originally Posted by MrEL

On the pipe or the mushrooms this week?

I wish I hadn't seen it but I did...

Seriously a Xb coupe used as a shopping cart parked in the woollies car park. An old lady chucked her shopping in the trunk and slammed it shut. I'll go back next Sunday and leave them a note. $1500 take it or leave it.. She might think I'm the sucker.

I also know of a xy falcon sitting in someone's front yard gathering dust. I think it's a 302, again reasonable original condition. Do we need photos?

I'll leave him $1500 as well take it or leave it. They might be glad to move the old tank along.

[zoesgift]

perhaps if you are serious you should consider offering a little bit more than $1500. the ppl in question have probably been offered more than that in the past.....

[Crazy Dazz]

Thing is the “market” for classic cars is not a typical market. Supply is limited and segmented, and “demand” is allover the shop.
Will people WANT classic cars in the future? YES they will.
Are Classic Cars a good INVESTMENT? NO they never have been.
If you’re worried about getting your money back, don’t put it into a car, buy bank shares. If you want to buy a classic, restore it with your own hands, use it, and derive endless hours of pleasure from it, and pass it on to your kids, then who cares if it’s a good investment?

Those who worry about technology over taking classic cars, miss a couple of important issues.
• Today’s driver classics, become tomorrow’s VINTAGE collectibles. Nobody wants to use a Model T as daily, but that doesn’t mean people wouldn’t like to own one.
• Knowledge follows not far behind. Younger people particularly are comfortable with electronics and computers. Restoring a future classic shouldn’t hold any fear just because it has EFI and ABS.
• In some respects the “gap” between “future classic” and “daily driver” is diminishing. Pull out an original 40 yr old today, and its handling, reliability, steering, and braking is a far cry from what we expect. But in 30 years’ time will a BA seem SO bad?
• With trend now towards modern cars becoming smaller, less powerful, more compliant, and sales of full-size cars plummeting. The future may see today’s full-size cars become highly desirable.

[pottery beige]

throwing this out there.. the GT market may level out but remain solid for clean cars..
whole heap of dudes my age pushing 40 that were once 20yo young bucks that rode the wave of clean, tough, cheap GT's in the 1990's..
we drove them everyday as they were everyday cars..
some sold them when life got busy.. kiddlets and buying house's...
those dudes will be coming through the market again when life hits the sweet spot and toys are on the agenda...

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by RAPID_BA

I wish I hadn't seen it but I did...

Seriously a Xb coupe used as a shopping cart parked in the woollies car park. An old lady chucked her shopping in the trunk and slammed it shut. I'll go back next Sunday and leave them a note. $1500 take it or leave it.. She might think I'm the sucker.

I also know of a xy falcon sitting in someone's front yard gathering dust. I think it's a 302, again reasonable original condition. Do we need photos?

I'll leave him $1500 as well take it or leave it. They might be glad to move the old tank along.

So you think this coupe owner drives a 40 year old lump because she cant afford something newer ???
That's too funny for words ...
If she wanted a corolla,or a small shopping cart ,the coupe would be gone long ago .....
As for the XY parked in the front yard,you wont be the first to knock on the door,leave a note and you wont be the last to hear these words,
"Not for sale"
The mentality of some who think because something is old, that they should hand it over to the first to show some interest astonishes me ....

[GQ_Smooth]

I will bet my left one that a R32 Nissan GTR will be a classic in Australia (even the imported ones), It has a dominant race heritage in Australia & Japan, the Grandtourismo generation would have driven them on their playstation. Clean unmodified ones that haven't been smashed are rare, and at this stage they are affordable 15-20K.

Only wish I had a spare 20K.

[Iggle Piggle]

I think what a lot of those lucky enough to own a classic are saying is who gives a stuff about current or future value when it will not be sold.

Some are making the mistake of measuring the value of these cars in dollars, and are not seeing the true value of these cars to their owners.

Nope, I don't own one myself, but I get it.

[HO 3]

Originally Posted by eb2monty

All good points you make, however, there is only a window of time for each era where it's value hits a peak due to demand, then tapers off. Those Ataris you speak of are classic to those that grew up with them. Those people will pay high prices for a mint one. Just like those who grew up with a Nintendo 64 will pay big bucks in 10 - 15 years time. Classic cars have hit their peak. They are on the way down.

You might want to run that 'window in time' theory past a few classic mega dollar Bugatti, Duesenberg, Ferrari etc owners that were not even born when their cars were originally manufactured

Cheers Mick

[CoupeKing]

A Datsun 180B in mint condition owned by a little old lady will be considered a classic car to some people. So will the XC that some old wog guy cruises around in even though the front springs look like they taken from a large piece of earth moving equipment. So will a Volkswagen Beetle. With over 20 million of them produced, rare? no, classic, yes.

Some people will say the car had to of won Bathurst. Others think if it didnt come with a V8 its not a true classic ( i bet the guy driving an E-49 will beg to differ ) Bunches of purists will tell you that it had to of been released in limited numbers.

As far as the market goes...well its been fluctuating from the get go and always will. All it takes is a movie to be released with a certain car and the prices jack up overnight.

One thing i have noticed over the years, and it doesnt just apply to Classic Cars, is that trends come and go, but class will always remain.

[BENT_8]

The OP asked wether classic car prices are sustainable, the obvious answer is no.
Is there still a market for them, most definitely, they will always have a following, but I think the rush which sent prices through the roof involved a few get rich quick buyers who were found out when the economy slumped.

A very similar thread was discussed back in 06/7 when P3 HO's were reportedly fetching upwards of 700k. Rumour has it that 1 went for $900k+ and then there was the famous, or should that read infamous $1m car which I personally believe triggered the collapse.
I said then that top end Ex racers with history would always fetch big $$'s, but believed that anything less would come down to about $250-300k.

Well, fast forward 6 years and sure enough the top end is down around that figure.

It is no mistake that the muscle car boom followed the housing boom, sentiment was high, cash was flowing and the term GFC was yet to appear in news bulletins.

[RAPID_BA]

Originally Posted by 302 XC

So you think this coupe owner drives a 40 year old lump because she cant afford something newer ???
That's too funny for words ...
If she wanted a corolla,or a small shopping cart ,the coupe would be gone long ago .....
As for the XY parked in the front yard,you wont be the first to knock on the door,leave a note and you wont be the last to hear these words,
"Not for sale"
The mentality of some who think because something is old, that they should hand it over to the first to show some interest astonishes me ....

You gotta learn to read the giveaway signs..

Seems obvious to me if the XB Coupe was used to go to Woolworths to buy stuff, left out in the cold for anyone to damage, does that show how the owner appreciates it? There isnt too many of these things getting about, if she thought it was rare and collectable she wouldnt be at woolworths in it. Id bet she owned that car since 1982 and probably paid $3200 for it back then. Ive seen heaps of older people keep their cars forever, hers just happens to be a XB Coupe.

Same for the XY in the front yard, if they thought it was rare and collectable, wouldnt they move the VT commodore that is parked before it and at least park it in. Ill post up some pics and you can make up your own mind.

$3000 Ill probably pick up both.

[RAPID_BA]

I was out at Darling Harbour last Sunday morning, Early on parking the car in a back street behind the Star casino, it was a little fresh outside, quiet and not too many people about (8am), then an older guy comes round the corner in his XY 351 GT, roaring up the road in all its glory, going for a morning run with his young fella in the front.

Thats a true collector for me, that car was worth a bit, he enjoys it occassionally, but its loved always.

Very different to the lady going to woolworths to load up the trunk with fruit and vegetables in her XB Coupe.

[Iggle Piggle]

Originally Posted by RAPID_BA

$3000 Ill probably pick up both.

What you should do is ignore them and buy one with the lowest KMs that is also in mint condition...there is a guy that always bangs on about that, so a bit of a search should turn up the right advice for you.

Originally Posted by RAPID_BA

I was out at Darling Harbour last Sunday morning, Early on parking the car in a back street behind the Star casino, it was a little fresh outside, quiet and not too many people about (8am), then an older guy comes round the corner in his XY 351 GT, roaring up the road in all its glory, going for a morning run with his young fella in the front.

Thats a true collector for me, that car was worth a bit, he enjoys it occassionally, but its loved always.

Very different to the lady going to woolworths to load up the trunk with fruit and vegetables in her XB Coupe.

Think I know that guy - if it is him, he would have been on his way to Woollies.

[Professor Farnsworth]

Originally Posted by RAPID_BA

You gotta learn to read the giveaway signs..

Seems obvious to me if the XB Coupe was used to go to Woolworths to buy stuff, left out in the cold for anyone to damage, does that show how the owner appreciates it? There isnt too many of these things getting about, if she thought it was rare and collectable she wouldnt be at woolworths in it. Id bet she owned that car since 1982 and probably paid $3200 for it back then. Ive seen heaps of older people keep their cars forever, hers just happens to be a XB Coupe.

Same for the XY in the front yard, if they thought it was rare and collectable, wouldnt they move the VT commodore that is parked before it and at least park it in. Ill post up some pics and you can make up your own mind.

$3000 Ill probably pick up both.

as astonishing as this may seem to those with closed minds, some people love to use nice cars as daily drives, just like they used to be. You know, GT's towing trailers, covered in mud, coupes with pets in them, sunroof open, cruising down the highway, or even carrying shopping of all things! Crazy, crazy stuff.

[big_landau]

I know a bloke who drives an green xb gt hartop as an everyday driver,its a good one too.

[Bearman]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

throwing this out there.. the GT market may level out but remain solid for clean cars..
whole heap of dudes my age pushing 40 that were once 20yo young bucks that rode the wave of clean, tough, cheap GT's in the 1990's..
we drove them everyday as they were everyday cars..
some sold them when life got busy.. kiddlets and buying house's...
those dudes will be coming through the market again when life hits the sweet spot and toys are on the agenda...

That's been happening for a while now. I got my coupe in my early 40's about a year or two before the boom. Accfess to cash, easy finance and drawing on home equity fuelled it. Bloke thinks to himself "Got some cash now, I want that car back I had to sell to buy our house/knocked up the GF whatever". Trouble is, heaps of blokes had the same idea!!

By the time todays 25-30 year olds hit that "sweet spot" what will they be going for? By then a few of my generation and older may have moved their cars on for various reasons such as:

• Illness.
• Over it.
• Change of direction in life.
• CBF anymore.
• Croaked.

This will put a few good '60's and '70's muscle cars on the market and I'm not convinced there will be the number of younger generations coming through who will want them. I believe prices will fall as a result.

What effect will this have on me? Very little really, I'm keeping the coupe untill I'm good and ready to move it on. Can't see myself being an old cracker in his '70's and still owning it but I'm a long way from that point yet!!

[RAPID_BA]

Im astonished that people can justify paying more than the brand new price for a car. Not only do they pay over price but the car is now used and not as good functionally as the new example.

At the moment the BF Cobra owners seem to be the worst offenders, I see some asking more than the new price? If you wanted that car wouldnt you buy it when it was new!! and at a cheaper price just a few years back?? VL Brock commodores, VL Walkinshaws, EL GT to name a few of these people trying to cash in.

It reminds me of the Sydney sellers of phone protective covers trying to charge $39 when everyone knows you can look on ebay and get it brand new from hong kong for $4.99 delivered.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Bearman

That's been happening for a while now. I got my coupe in my early 40's about a year or two before the boom. Accfess to cash, easy finance and drawing on home equity fuelled it. Bloke thinks to himself "Got some cash now, I want that car back I had to sell to buy our house/knocked up the GF whatever". Trouble is, heaps of blokes had the same idea!!

By the time todays 25-30 year olds hit that "sweet spot" what will they be going for? By then a few of my generation and older may have moved their cars on for various reasons such as:

• Illness.
• Over it.
• Change of direction in life.
• CBF anymore.
• Croaked.

This will put a few good '60's and '70's muscle cars on the market and I'm not convinced there will be the number of younger generations coming through who will want them. I believe prices will fall as a result.

What effect will this have on me? Very little really, I'm keeping the coupe untill I'm good and ready to move it on. Can't see myself being an old cracker in his '70's and still owning it but I'm a long way from that point yet!!

I love this attitude Bearman, someone with both an emotional and financial interest in these classics, yet wise enough to admit that the factors which drove the recent muscle car boom, nostalgia, equity mate or super, may never be seen again.

I doubt we will ever see the neglect they received in the 80's again, and the privilege of owning a part of Aus motoring history will always command a premium, but I cant see them ever reaching the heights that they did.

[Vincenzo]

Originally Posted by RAPID_BA

Im astonished that people can justify paying more than the brand new price for a car. Not only do they pay over price but the car is now used and not as good functionally as the new example.

Try to factor in a little thing called inflation.

In 1975 I earned ~$5,000 p/a. My first car bought new cost me $3,200 or ~ 32 weeks worth of ages. Today, 32 weeks wages would allow me to buy a car in the mid $30k. Very simple arithmetic but I think you already know that and just like stirring the pot.

Cheers Vincenzo

[Super Roo 1970]

Originally Posted by 302 XC

If you stopped and offered her 1500 bucks ,she would probably beat some brains into you with her handbag .........

I would pay REAL money to see that happen. Hulk is a guy who truly doesn't get it when it comes to classics.

Iv driven my Phase 3 to the shops several times over the years, doesn't mean I dont like or respect it or think its a POS.

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by RAPID_BA

You gotta learn to read the giveaway signs..

Seems obvious to me if the XB Coupe was used to go to Woolworths to buy stuff, left out in the cold for anyone to damage, does that show how the owner appreciates it? There isnt too many of these things getting about, if she thought it was rare and collectable she wouldnt be at woolworths in it. Id bet she owned that car since 1982 and probably paid $3200 for it back then. Ive seen heaps of older people keep their cars forever, hers just happens to be a XB Coupe.

Same for the XY in the front yard, if they thought it was rare and collectable, wouldnt they move the VT commodore that is parked before it and at least park it in. Ill post up some pics and you can make up your own mind.

$3000 Ill probably pick up both.

Here is the mentality thing I mentioned ...
Who are you,or me or someone else to tell people how they should look after something ....
So the little old lady drove to the shops,and put shopping in the car
So,whats the big deal ,is that better than someone who parks it in a shed, has a little time alone moment,never drives it,polishes it to death,and no doubt themselves,(read time alone moment)
There a car to be driven ,to be used and perhaps abused
There not gold nuggets
As for the XY ,again big deal, my XC sits outside in the elements,theres a convertible in the shed,the previous owner to the XC drove around with his dog in the car for years , tools in the boot
There a car for drivin,doin a purpose
Unless its some limited build, 1 off a kind ,worth a million bucks, who cares
I used a 2 year old Nissan patrol for sniggin logs when I bought my property, yep 2 years old doin work a tractor should, did I care ,no
The people I bought my old XP ute of years ago,had it in a single car shed
The bloke bought a new dirt bike,not enuf room for two
Guess which one went outside ???
Hint it wasn't the bike

[Iggle Piggle]

Originally Posted by RAPID_BA

Im astonished that people can justify paying more than the brand new price for a car. Not only do they pay over price but the car is now used and not as good functionally as the new example.

At the moment the BF Cobra owners seem to be the worst offenders, I see some asking more than the new price? If you wanted that car wouldnt you buy it when it was new!! and at a cheaper price just a few years back?? VL Brock commodores, VL Walkinshaws, EL GT to name a few of these people trying to cash in.

It reminds me of the Sydney sellers of phone protective covers trying to charge $39 when everyone knows you can look on ebay and get it brand new from hong kong for $4.99 delivered.

Yep, some of the members on here should have had the sense to buy their classic car a couple of years before they were born when it was new.

And anyone after a good VL or EL GT would be mad to not go out and buy a new one in 2013.

Don't let it get to you - it is not your money they are buying them with.

Originally Posted by Super Roo 1970

Iv driven my Phase 3 to the shops several times over the years, doesn't mean I dont like or respect it or think its a POS.

Drove it to the shops? Obviously you would take $1500 for it - cash.

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by RAPID_BA

Im astonished that people can justify paying more than the brand new price for a car. Not only do they pay over price but the car is now used and not as good functionally as the new example.



It reminds me of the Sydney sellers of phone protective covers trying to charge $39 when everyone knows you can look on ebay and get it brand new from hong kong for $4.99 delivered.

There are many who try and cash in on the new breed muscle, that's good if your cashed to do that,but most aren't
Ive got a post a bit back , looking into new car costings ....
New loose near 50 % in 3,4 years ,that's on the buy cost , no interest charges ,which can be lets say 10 large over the loan
You've got the ridiculous cost of parts,theres no guarantee new will be trouble free for your ownership
So be against the oldies, which usually hold their money,you keep believing new is the answer

As for the Sydney seller Vs internet sales, maybe we leave that for another time ???

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by HO 3

You might want to run that 'window in time' theory past a few classic mega dollar Bugatti, Duesenberg, Ferrari etc owners that were not even born when their cars were originally manufactured

Cheers Mick

Um... Yeah, 'cos most of us are talking about Ferraris and Bugattis.