Vic traffic police told to target low-level speeding offenders

[blk6t]

Very good points, now double demerits are in force in NSW I spent a lot more time glaring at the speedo and looking for speed traps than focusing on the road. The hype of double demerits in NSW gives you this feeling that the instance you go 1km over the limit, cop cars will swoop in all directions and take you down!

That level of tolerance does give the driver more room to concentrate on the road and their surroundings.

[69XWGT]

Originally Posted by Bearman

Assistand Commissioner Robert Hill answers his phone:

"Hello Robert, Napthine here"
"Hi Mr Premier, what can we do for you?"
"We need more revenue. Can you squeeze more out of motorists?"
"Ummmm.... We could always book more motorists for momentarily drifting slightly over the speed limit."
"Yes, of course. Thanks Robert, that is such easy money for us."
"Don't mention it Mr Premier. We can always get more cameras out and fiddle with speed limits to plant a few more landmines for the stooges....oops...COUGH...motorists."
"Excellent Robert. By the way, don't forget to blame all accidents on speed regardless of any other factors."
"No problem Mr Premier, consider it done. Goodbye."

And with that we are screwed!!

and that my friends is exactly why they will be targeting lower range speeding offences.

I'm amazed that there are some people out there that can defend the government on this.
Really are you that gullible to think that this is anything less than blatant revenue raising.

If the governments were serious about the road toll. They'd be spending a lot more on proper driver education. They'd also be doing something about driver distraction which also happens when people are more concerned about watching a speedo than they are about driving.

Distraction and fatigue is more of a problem than speeding and what do our puppet police officers do and say. Speed kills and every K over is a killer and all they can come up with is more speeding offences.
The Police are being used as another source of revenue and that is what is wrong with this whole speed kills lets book people for a kilometre over the speed limit garbage

[JG65TE]

Was up in Townsville recently. Big hoo haa bout a cop bookin a bloke 4 1klm over with.no radar or anythin. Just followed him n decided he was a Kay over and bam !. He got off after he took it to the paper. The napthine government as it seems to be called is going over the top, but it dont matter because the general public are sooks and won't do a thing to stand up for themselves. Bottom line, the government is broke and they have decided to rob us, guns on the hip and ticket book in hand. I feel sorry for the decent cops caught up in this. Someone is gunna flip one day... Curfews will be next. Shot if out after dark.

[iCat]

I just wish the coppers would police the morons that speed through suburban side streets in any local estate. 80 in 50 zones etc etc - just count how many times this happens past your own house? What they do now IS blatant and easy revenue raising.

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by 69XWGT

Distraction and fatigue is more of a problem than speeding and what do our puppet police officers do and say. Speed kills and every K over is a killer and all they can come up with is more speeding offences.

I’m not having a go mate, but using your post as to illustrate a point, and not posting because I disagree.
If you really feel your opinion is fact and there are greater evil than speeding prove it. There is an industry built up around proving speed kills then there is the opportunity to prove otherwise.
And the great thing about our country, as I mentioned below is we are actually free to protest, to form an argument and put it to the authorities without the fear of persecution, punishment, imprisonment or worse. yet the vast majority sit by mumbling discontent.
If you think the speed kills campaign has eroded your rights open your (collective) eyes and look at the silent social campaign that has taken more of your rights than you will ever know, look at the machine you live in!
Again I make a call to action...If you don't like it act against it, gather together your 'majority' and demand change. Use the freedoms so hard fought for by previous generations, don't stand for it anymore.
JP

[steve.zissou]

If you think it can't get worse, your wrong. Greece has started fining people with speed cameras for driving to slow.
Good thing about democracy is that the majority of people get the govt they deserve. Unfortunately the majority are morons.

[mik]

Originally Posted by 69XWGT

and that my friends is exactly why they will be targeting lower range speeding offences.

I'm amazed that there are some people out there that can defend the government on this.
Really are you that gullible to think that this is anything less than blatant revenue raising.

If the governments were serious about the road toll. They'd be spending a lot more on proper driver education. They'd also be doing something about driver distraction which also happens when people are more concerned about watching a speedo than they are about driving.

Distraction and fatigue is more of a problem than speeding and what do our puppet police officers do and say. Speed kills and every K over is a killer and all they can come up with is more speeding offences.
The Police are being used as another source of revenue and that is what is wrong with this whole speed kills lets book people for a kilometre over the speed limit garbage

Pretty much on the money(excuse the pun) I think, but that's not all thats wrong,
To my way of thinking focusing mainly on one tiny area of driving infraction is bloody ridiculous, once upon a time you see coppers pulling people up for poor examples of driving, ie drivers sitting right on the back of someone's bumper or weaving in and out of traffic........... not using indicators , driving through stop signs, not using courtesy or just plain driving like an impatient tool,

The only explanation I can give is not about improveing driving skills, it's revenue first , and I dont blame police for that , they follow the party line from their higher ups.
I can say when I was a young bloke driving I had an officer pull me up and asked me if I knew why he picked me out of a bunch of cars and he explained to me what I was doing wrong then let me off with warning.
I drove away thinking what a good bloke, and his advice stuck with me my driving life, I wonder how many people get fined and get in a hostile stuff you jack frame of driving mind and just go back to their old driving ways.

[Bearman]

Well, I had a bloody big truck sitting right up my clacker on the inner tolled section of the Monash Freeway this morning in wet conditions. I was unable to change lanes due to traffic so I was forced to exceed the posted speed limit by a small amount to get clear of him and extricate myself from a bloody dangerous situation.......... And I'm the one who could cop a fine under VicPol's new edict!!! It's that effing cowboy truckie that should be reamed!!

Has it gotten to the point where every motorist needs to have a go-pro mounted at each end of their car and constantly take footage frontwards and rearwards to ever have any hope of fighting a fine in such a situation??

[SB076]

Lot of overseas countries have higher limits than Aus, so need to ask why are they not all dead, if additional kilometre an hour leads to fatalities.

Police/Government will always blame speed (if no one moved we would all be safe) Be nice if they looked at the real reasons why there are fatalities and stopped focusing on generating revenue.

[new2ford]

When you have a police head in one country saying they tolerate 20 km/h over the motorway limit and in another country saying they don't tolerate 1 km/h over, you have to ask yourself don't you?

[SB076]

Would be an interesting experiment if all fines were outlawed and the only punishment was imprisonment whether the powers to be would change their tune to low range speeding.

[snypereb]

Revenue raising at its very very very best.

Go out and catch some real crooks. The ones that are making and selling illicit drugs to our kids. Breaking in and stealing from houses and shops. Car theives etc etc.

All these crooks are laughing in the government face as there is less cops chasing them and more out on the road looking for easy targets to make money and not have to do alot of paperwork.

The illicit drug scene is the worst it has ever been in this country and more and more people are dieing from over doses and doing stupid things while under the influence. Yet we are out targeting people driving 1-2km's over the speed limit.

Yep that makes perfect sense to me!!

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by SB076

Police/Government will always blame speed (if no one moved we would all be safe) Be nice if they looked at the real reasons why there are fatalities and stopped focusing on generating revenue.

Not picking on you mate just using what you said to illicit discussion.
What’s wrong with raising revenue?. Much of this topic is about the 'blatant' use of speeding fines as revenue raising. So! the authorities have found a palatable way of raising funds to fund the community activities. What’s the alternative. How does the community get what it wants from its authorities, roads, ports, communications, police, defence, schools, clean environments, social welfare, hospitals etc. This stuff does not come for free. So your options are pay fines for being caught breeching a law or raise taxes. The taxes you cannot avoid, no matter how careful you are on the accelerator, no matter how much you whinge. the speeding tax you can avoid.
Of course the other way is to leave taxes where they are, return speeding taxes to the good old days when you were happy to receive a fine and cut services to the community. But which ones will you do without, probably the one your neighbour wants, or his neighbour relies on. Not a popular direction, a very unpalatable solution to the community.
Or maybe an argument about preventing wasted government spending, wouldn’t need additional revenue if they spent wisely. Waste is common in government no matter how big, what persuasion and where, be thankful we have disguised first world corruption. The problem is the government decision makers are spending someone else’s money not their own, they have no real need to be efficient, in fact inefficient government spending can be a good thing as it spreads money back into the community. So irrespective of what government is in charge there is going to be what you consider waste, but again your neighbour may think its good spending and their neighbour may actually need it.

JP

[XWGT]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

Not picking on you mate just using what you said to illicit discussion.
. How does the community get what it wants from its authorities, roads, ports, communications, police, defence, schools, clean environments, social welfare, hospitals etc. .

JP

The same way they use to for the last 1200 years!

Fiscal responsibility, forethought and clear rational priorities.

The car wasn't invented to support modern politicians with zero economic understanding or skill sets!

[MWTB]

Looks like young fellas would be better off getting a second job as an amphetamine cook than as a pizza boy.

[lucas2]

The government will print more worthless currency, (there's a big difference between money and currency) and use our taxes and fines from speed cameras to attempt to pay off their debt which won't happen. Poor decisions and greed (i.e. re-election promises) is causing the government to spend what it doesn't have, in order to pay it back later through taxes and fine revenue. This may "work" in the short term, but in the long term somethings gotta give.

punishing people for such a trivial offence isn't right the way to gain public confidence in the police and the government.

[jpblue1000]

[QUOTE=XWGT;5002112]The same way they use to for the last 1200 years!
Fiscal responsibility, forethought and clear rational priorities.
QUOTE]
Yes but define those things, what you think is a rational priority another Australian may not, where you see forethought another Australian may see ignorance and fiscal responsibility is not as applicable to governments as it is to you and me. The government can raise taxes to pay debt, possibly incurred for good reason, you cannot raise taxes against your neighbour to pay for a new TV.
And as for the last 1200 years I will argue that those 'essentials' we demand today were seen as un necessary for the proletariat even 100 years ago. We have entered a period, in the west of unprecedented freedom and prosperity, we have freedom and power as such we claim the essentials rather than the power providing it for their commercial benefit.
JP

[Franco Cozzo]

Ah well you all know who to vote this upcoming election then don't you?

[irish2]

Originally Posted by simon varley

in fact this is what happens. The allowable speedo error is +10% / -0% so they all over read not under read. When you drive at 60kmh in a 60kmh limit, you could be actually driving as slow as 54kmh (ish). Conversely you could drive at an indicated 66kmh and still not be speeding. Don't rely on this though as 10% is a maximum error and many cars are in fact more accurate than this.

The ADR was changed in 2006. Prior to 2006 it was +/-10%.

[irish2]

Originally Posted by XLTDP63

Wonder how these new rules will effect people who have classic cars with less accurate speedos in MPH. I know when driving the old falcon the speed i'm doing is more judged on the cars around me then what the speedo says. might as well hand my license in before I loose it, probably safer taking the train to work then sharing the road with people too busy looking at their speedo then the road anyway.

If I travel over a small bump in the stang, my speedo moves +/- 10MPH. I don't really give a damn, I just drive to the conditions, and be observant.

[Wretched]

Victoria, vicpol and even AU itself can get stuffed. Road policies of late are pathetic, short sighted and do nothing to improve the road crash statistics. Blaming speed as the main cause or contributing factor is nothing short of a lie, fraud in fact.

Australia has roads that are considered third world, maintenance is non existent and when it does happen it is usually a patch work. The initial laying of the road is sub standard and at the cheap end of the scale. Fix the quality of the roads for one thing.

Second, the drop in road fatalities is not due to speed cameras but a range of factors that include the vast improvement of vehicle manufacturing and safety aids available. Not to mention tyre technology has also advanced in great leaps and bounds.

There is no one quick fix for reducing the road toll, but one big factor in this country has to be attitude. We are the most arrogant, rude and self centered bunch of drivers. To many times do I see morons sitting in the right lane not overtaking anyone on a freeway, holding the rest of the traffic up, the KEEP LEFT UNLESS OVERTAKING mantra should be drilled into every driver. There are other factors too, such as why do people need to increase their speed through an intersection to beat a red light? Half the time they go through the red light. Really, how hard is it to just wait 2 - 3 min for the next cycle?
I really could write a full document about the issue with driving in AU but I won't.

In summary though we need:
Better roads
Improved licensing requirements
A change in attitudes, including driving to the conditions.

[irish2]

Originally Posted by Wretched

Victoria, vicpol and even AU itself can get stuffed. Road policies of late are pathetic, short sighted and do nothing to improve the road crash statistics. Blaming speed as the main cause or contributing factor is nothing short of a lie, fraud in fact.

Australia has roads that are considered third world, maintenance is non existent and when it does happen it is usually a patch work. The initial laying of the road is sub standard and at the cheap end of the scale. Fix the quality of the roads for one thing.

Second, the drop in road fatalities is not due to speed cameras but a range of factors that include the vast improvement of vehicle manufacturing and safety aids available. Not to mention tyre technology has also advanced in great leaps and bounds.

There is no one quick fix for reducing the road toll, but one big factor in this country has to be attitude. We are the most arrogant, rude and self centered bunch of drivers. To many times do I see morons sitting in the right lane not overtaking anyone on a freeway, holding the rest of the traffic up, the KEEP LEFT UNLESS OVERTAKING mantra should be drilled into every driver. There are other factors too, such as why do people need to increase their speed through an intersection to beat a red light? Half the time they go through the red light. Really, how hard is it to just wait 2 - 3 min for the next cycle?
I really could write a full document about the issue with driving in AU but I won't.

In summary though we need:
Better roads
Improved licensing requirements
A change in attitudes, including driving to the conditions.

I have driven in several European countries that have a similar standard of road to us. The big difference in traffic flow, and enjoyment was driver attitude. Everyone is courteous, and drives well. So I believe the three things you listed should be reversed in order.

[XW-BAXR6T]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Ah well you all know who to vote this upcoming election then don't you?

They are all the same, as this clearly illiterates.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ho7n8kJc7pI


.

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by irish2

I have driven in several European countries that have a similar standard of road to us. The big difference in traffic flow, and enjoyment was driver attitude. Everyone is courteous, and drives well. So I believe the three things you listed should be reversed in order.

spot on.
plus we cant afford better roads...As I wrote before

We have the worlds 8 the largest national roadway length at 823,217km's
the 7 nations above us in total length include the US, Russia, china, India Brazil and japan Canada and France. The smallest population in that list is near on twice as large as the Australian population.
Having been to many of those countries, not all, but enough I can say we generally have great roads, and the equal to many in the rural regions. And we have half to a fraction of a percent of their population to pay for it.

When you take into account the rest of the cost of running a country for example the SA education budget runs at approximately 3 billion, the SA arts gets 20 million, the Department of Planning, Transport and Infrastructure has just announced 36 Billion to be spent on new works over and above maintenance over the next 10-15 years. which will mean spending on transport will rival education spend...not including maintenance which is about 1.2-1.5 billion per year just in SA. To improve the roads etc to your demanded standards will mean significant cuts elsewhere or god forbid, tax increases remember only 21-22 million people paying for a road infrastructure equivalent to one owned by 35 - 1.1 billion people.
JP

JP

[simon varley]

http://rvcs-prodweb.dot.gov.au/files/ADR%201803.pdf

page 15

In the case of vehicles of categories M and N:

0 ≤ (V1 – V2) ≤ 0.1 V2 + 6 km/h

this either means the speedo can over read by 10% +6kmh or it means it can over read by bit 10% of (speed+6kmh) so it's even worse than I said. In either case it cant under read

[mik]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

Not picking on you mate just using what you said to illicit discussion.
What’s wrong with raising revenue?. Much of this topic is about the 'blatant' use of speeding fines as revenue raising. So! the authorities have found a palatable way of raising funds to fund the community activities. What’s the alternative. How does the community get what it wants from its authorities, roads, ports, communications, police, defence, schools, clean environments, social welfare, hospitals etc. This stuff does not come for free. So your options are pay fines for being caught breeching a law or raise taxes. The taxes you cannot avoid, no matter how careful you are on the accelerator, no matter how much you whinge. the speeding tax you can avoid.
Of course the other way is to leave taxes where they are, return speeding taxes to the good old days when you were happy to receive a fine and cut services to the community. But which ones will you do without, probably the one your neighbour wants, or his neighbour relies on. Not a popular direction, a very unpalatable solution to the community.
Or maybe an argument about preventing wasted government spending, wouldn’t need additional revenue if they spent wisely. Waste is common in government no matter how big, what persuasion and where, be thankful we have disguised first world corruption. The problem is the government decision makers are spending someone else’s money not their own, they have no real need to be efficient, in fact inefficient government spending can be a good thing as it spreads money back into the community. So irrespective of what government is in charge there is going to be what you consider waste, but again your neighbour may think its good spending and their neighbour may actually need it.

JP

Nothing the matter with raising revenue within reason if it does has a better outcome, however if the one focus is on a small item that in all honesty the safety gain is very debatable and with the concequence of costabulary neglecting other bad driving habits that really need attention, you would come to the conclusion they need to change focus.

[irish2]

Originally Posted by simon varley

http://rvcs-prodweb.dot.gov.au/files/ADR%201803.pdf

page 15



this either means the speedo can over read by 10% +6kmh or it means it can over read by bit 10% of (speed+6kmh) so it's even worse than I said. In either case it cant under read

The fact is, this was only changed in 2006. There are many cars of the road that are built before 2006.

[simon varley]

fairy nuff. I'm from England. Didn't realise the local manufacturers made the change so recently. England changed way back in 1986.

interestingly, and from Wikipedia so possibly untrustworthy

There were no Australian Design Rules in place for speedometers in Australia prior to July 1988. They had to be introduced when speed cameras were first used. This means there are no legally accurate speedometers for these older vehicles. All vehicles manufactured on or after 1 July 2007, and all models of vehicle introduced on or after 1 July 2006, must conform to UNECE Regulation 39.
The speedometers in vehicles manufactured before these dates but after 1 July 1995 (or 1 January 1995 for forward control passenger vehicles and off-road passenger vehicles) must conform to the previous Australian design rule. This specifies that they need only display the speed to an accuracy of +/- 10% at speeds above 40 km/h, and there is no specified accuracy at all for speeds below 40 km/h. All vehicles manufactured in Australia or imported for supply to the Australian market must comply with the Australian Design Rules.
The state and territory governments may set policies for the tolerance of speed over the posted speed limits that may be lower than the 10% in the earlier versions of the Australian Design Rules permitted, such as in Victoria This has caused some controversy since it would be possible for a driver to be unaware that he is speeding should his vehicle be fitted with an under-reading speedometer

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by irish2

The fact is, this was only changed in 2006. There are many cars of the road that are built before 2006.

Irrespective of the complexity of the issue the onus is on the driver to ensure they have a roadworthy vehicle at all times when on the national highways. A correctly operating spedometer is a roadworthy item and as such an erroroneous metering device should be no defence against a speeding fine.

JP

[irish2]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

Irrespective of the complexity of the issue the onus is on the driver to ensure they have a roadworthy vehicle at all times when on the national highways. A correctly operating spedometer is a roadworthy item and as such an erroroneous metering device should be no defence against a speeding fine.

JP

Last time I checked they don't run your car on a dyno to check speedo accuracy at roadworthy time. Correctly operating also only needs to refer to the manufacturers tolerances at the time of production. Are you going to get a special speedo gear fabricated to fix something that was within manufacturing specs?

Similar to how they keep dropping the maximum dB level for vehicles. When they made Phase 3's the limit was 100dB and it was made just quiet enough to pass. So in theory a concourse phase 3 would fail a road side noise test.

The roadside Lidar equipment used in Australia has a +/-2km/h accuracy. Yet we can't have a speedo in an old car that reads even 1km/h over? Ridiculous.