Does Holden have an advantage after local assembly stops?

[castellan]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Not entirely sure about that.
I know quite a few people out here who have got new lease cars recently, and they've deliberately gone out and picked a V8 SS, Calais, whatever, Holden. They've said they "finally decided to buy one" once they found out they wouldn't be made anymore. Otherwise, they say, they would have just picked a V6 one, or some SUV or four wheel drive like they had before.
It obviously implies the only reason they went ahead and ordered one was "exclusivity" and "owning the last of the breed". To be fair, I have also heard guys say that about V8 Falcons of various sorts. One guy even thinks his SS with a few Walkinshaw options (not a supercharged one) is going to be a fast appreciating collector item in years to come. I think he should be prepared to be surprised...

Can you claim this is evidence the company will be "rooted" without a rear drive V8? Of course not. These, and people like them, are just outlying spikes in the statistics...they can't really be used as "the norm", as they openly say they would have never considered one if the company hadn't said they weren't making them anymore.

Mustang? I agree they'll walk out of the showrooms like hotcakes.
Providing they don't price them stupidly and make sure to bring in normal base models and not just the upper premium models...otherwise it's going to be another slow-selling short-lived model that gets dumped after a few years because of low sales. In the USA, unless you're talking top end models or Shelby versions, they're mostly just a rather nice looking two door family car that any Joe can afford.
I have a horrible feeling Ford Australia is going to shoot itself in the foot with them though...

The commodore Monaro did not sell like hot cakes, so why should the mustang.
Most Aussies like 4 doors or would like door 2 looks but 2 doors are a pain with people getting in and out of the back.
The last Mustang we got hear looked good but was just a rubbish car, that was nothing near as good as our falcon.

If 2 doors sold well in aus we would of always of made them, we were flat out to try to sell the last XC Hardtops and the HX coupe, then look at the numbers on the commodore Monaro sold, it faded out.

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by castellan

The commodore Monaro did not sell like hot cakes, so why should the mustang.
Most Aussies like 4 doors or would like door 2 looks but 2 doors are a pain with people getting in and out of the back.
The last Mustang we got hear looked good but was just a rubbish car, that was nothing near as good as our falcon.

If 2 doors sold well in aus we would of always of made them, we were flat out to try to sell the last XC Hardtops and the HX coupe, then look at the numbers on the commodore Monaro sold, it faded out.

Will your theory fit with the 4 door Falcon, Magna, Commodore? The Aussie public pretty much gave up on buying those as well.

Car ownership is no longer a necessity of limited choice. Many households have a 2 - 4 cars, one or two for every day needs and maybe one for pleasure.

The Ford Coupe, when first introduced, sold extremely well. Same with he Holden and Valiant. The Commodore coupe also sold well when it was first released.

Slowing sales was the result of many factors - economy, new styles and tastes, competition, advertising, cost, etc.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by johnydep

Will your theory fit with the 4 door Falcon, Magna, Commodore? The Aussie public pretty much gave up on buying those as well.

Car ownership is no longer a necessity of limited choice. Many households have a 2 - 4 cars, one or two for every day needs and maybe one for pleasure.

The Ford Coupe, when first introduced, sold extremely well. Same with he Holden and Valiant. The Commodore coupe also sold well when it was first released.

Slowing sales was the result of many factors - economy, new styles and tastes, competition, advertising, cost, etc.

Seriously?

The market has been going to SUV's for family and small cars for everything else....oh and 4 door pickups for the 'tradesman'. That's were the growth is. Ford won't be relying on a coupe to make their money. This will be a flagship car while the rest of the units sell. 1 year into Stang sales 200 units in a good month and half will be Ford executive cars.

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Seriously?

The market has been going to SUV's for family and small cars for everything else....oh and 4 door pickups for the 'tradesman'. That's were the growth is. Ford won't be relying on a coupe to make their money. This will be a flagship car while the rest of the units sell. 1 year into Stang sales 200 units in a good month and half will be Ford executive cars.

Yes...seriously.

What I'm saying is - it doesn't matter how good a particular model sells it's all for naught if the manufacturer does not keep up with quality control, technology, consumer wants, styles, advertising, etc.

Take the Territory for an example - sales went through the roof, Ford could not build enough, the consumer and market loved it. Yet Ford failed to keep other manufacturers away. Why? Not giving consumers what they wanted - early diesel engine option, only a 4 speed auto, quality control issues, poor communication in explaining issues, minor updates.

And, I was replying to a quote that Aussies don't like 2 doors. Of course 2 door cars will never sell like 'family' cars, but they still have a place in many Aussie hearts

[XR Martin]

Mustang will be the only V8 you can buy under $100k in 2 years time.
At the moment Holden/HSV sell over a 1000 V8s a month.
Where do you think those V8 buyers are going to go? I guarantee the majority wont be buying anything 4 or 6cyl, letalone FWD.

Apart from North America, there is already more Mustangs here than anywhere else in the World combined.
There is actually more 60's Mustangs on the market for sale here than 60's Falcons.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by johnydep

Yes...seriously.

What I'm saying is - it doesn't matter how good a particular model sells it's all for naught if the manufacturer does not keep up with quality control, technology, consumer wants, styles, advertising, etc.

Take the Territory for an example - sales went through the roof, Ford could not build enough, the consumer and market loved it. Yet Ford failed to keep other manufacturers away. Why? Not giving consumers what they wanted - early diesel engine option, only a 4 speed auto, quality control issues, poor communication in explaining issues, minor updates.

And, I was replying to a quote that Aussies don't like 2 doors. Of course 2 door cars will never sell like 'family' cars, but they still have a place in many Aussie hearts

Ford Australia were never going to keep the competition away. The budget isn't there of a world wide SUV to keep the tech up. The whole diesel debacle was poor management. Quality control well if you look deep enough you'll find problems with all manufactures this site makes it look like its only Ford. But no one tells you about the Nissan pathfinder with the CVT shuddering problems, Mazda CX5 with the engine oil getting filled with diesel and flooding the motor, jeep engine dramas just a couple off the top of my head.
Unfortunately unless terri went global (and not a rebadge as what will happen) then what were getting now would have continued. But in all seriousness the terri is still a good car, all the extra tech is only on the top end or the cars look cheap as inside, or the layout is poor in the cabin (front and back).

It doesn't really matter either way. The money wasn't gonna be spent on a car that is gone and easier to just import an 'equivalent' global car.

I agree that there is a market for two door cars. But like the medium car class its finite and the question is whats the total number after the initial rush. While the car is imported Ford and the dealer must stock certain parts for it and if very little sell then the car will not be sold here.

[Flat Top]

look at camaro (HSV??)

[castellan]

Originally Posted by johnydep

Will your theory fit with the 4 door Falcon, Magna, Commodore? The Aussie public pretty much gave up on buying those as well.

Car ownership is no longer a necessity of limited choice. Many households have a 2 - 4 cars, one or two for every day needs and maybe one for pleasure.

The Ford Coupe, when first introduced, sold extremely well. Same with he Holden and Valiant. The Commodore coupe also sold well when it was first released.

Slowing sales was the result of many factors - economy, new styles and tastes, competition, advertising, cost, etc.

I think it was 17 CV6 and 230 CV8 in 2001
311 CV6 and 3345 CV8 in 2002
144 CV6 and 2210 CV8 and 276 CV8R in 2003
3 CV6, 1487 CV8, 313 CV8R, 493 VZCV8 in 2004
44 CV8R, 1159 VZ CV8, 1159 CV8-Z in 2005
9 VZ CV8, 453 CV8-Z in 2006

Total Australian Monaro and HSV coupes are about 14136 sold.
Total amount of Commodore type Monaro's built is about 73633 I think.

HK Monaro's sold in aus about 15647 I think
HT 9715
HG 6147
South Africa HT-G Monaro about 14172 I think.

[AUwindsor]

The Mustang will be a very niche market. Anyone expecting it to sell like a family car here would be kidding

[RobVee]

with holdens the public perception is a bit strange here in Victoria at least. i worked in car insurance for two different providers from 2006-2014 and i am SO glad i do not any more. anyways.. one question you would have ask over the phone is 'what is the VIN(Vehicle Identification Number) for your car' to start the policy. because that info is super necessary. And I would say for a bit of friendly chit chat if it starts with a '6' it is made in Australia... anyway alot of folk who bought General Motors vehicles that are sold here in OZ were a bit taken aback when their VIN started with 'L'(china), 'KL'(South Korea), etc and you would explain that and be in one awkward conversation.. because these folks had just shelled out big money on a captiva, barina spark they were convinced was made here

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by RobVee

with holdens the public perception is a bit strange here in Victoria at least. i worked in car insurance for two different providers from 2006-2014 and i am SO glad i do not any more. anyways.. one question you would have ask over the phone is 'what is the VIN(Vehicle Identification Number) for your car' to start the policy. because that info is super necessary. And I would say for a bit of friendly chit chat if it starts with a '6' it is made in Australia... anyway alot of folk who bought General Motors vehicles that are sold here in OZ were a bit taken aback when their VIN started with 'L'(china), 'KL'(South Korea), etc and you would explain that and be in one awkward conversation.. because these folks had just shelled out big money on a captiva, barina spark they were convinced was made here

Wouldn't surprise me if they still think this when Holden stop. Don't let the truth get in the way of perception.

[malazn mafia]

Originally Posted by castellan

The commodore Monaro did not sell like hot cakes, so why should the mustang.
Most Aussies like 4 doors or would like door 2 looks but 2 doors are a pain with people getting in and out of the back.
The last Mustang we got hear looked good but was just a rubbish car, that was nothing near as good as our falcon.

If 2 doors sold well in aus we would of always of made them, we were flat out to try to sell the last XC Hardtops and the HX coupe, then look at the numbers on the commodore Monaro sold, it faded out.

Hard to say. But it seems fewer and fewer of the generation born in the 80s and 90s are bothering getting married or having kids. So what would be the point of a 4 door family car? All the money saved by avoiding starting a family could give rise to larger number of luxury coupes and niche vehicles getting around.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by AUwindsor

The Mustang will be a very niche market. Anyone expecting it to sell like a family car here would be kidding

Family car? Like a Falcon? The car that sold 381 last month?
Ill take that bet that it will sell more than that in a month atleast once...

Hell people laughed at me years ago when I said the Ranger would outsell the Falcon and would be the best selling Ford

[Joe5619]

I thought Holden/ GM have officially announced Camero was being developed for RHD & coming to Australia. So why do people still think Holden won't have a RWD V8??

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

I thought Holden/ GM have officially announced Camero was being developed for RHD & coming to Australia. So why do people still think Holden won't have a RWD V8??

They also officially announced Cadillac was coming to Australia in 2007 and it never did, and then they announced it was coming back again recently and it hasn't.

They announced Opel was coming to Australia.

Then it closed down 1 year later and disappeared.

Holden says lots of things, they're gonna do this, they're gonna do that, they're not gonna do crap.

They just say stuff to build up hype and media attention because the media won't hold them accountable, its like all their concept cars they made over the years and they never make it into reality, just to take the shine of competitors products.

Even if Camaro did come here in RHD do you think its going to be sub $70K?

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Mustang will be the only V8 you can buy under $100k in 2 years time.
At the moment Holden/HSV sell over a 1000 V8s a month.
Where do you think those V8 buyers are going to go? I guarantee the majority wont be buying anything 4 or 6cyl, letalone FWD.

Apart from North America, there is already more Mustangs here than anywhere else in the World combined.
There is actually more 60's Mustangs on the market for sale here than 60's Falcons.

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Mustang will be the only V8 you can buy under $100k in 2 years time.
At the moment Holden/HSV sell over a 1000 V8s a month.

That ignores the V8 versions of the Chrysler 300C.

Looking at future product, Chrysler have also said the next gen Charger is right hand protected and all future products will be. A team from Chrysler are coming to Australia to look at the opportunities to expand the performance side of their brand this year. Ford and Holden effectively leaving the market creates an opportunity. Its a niche, but for a company like Chrylser its a very attractive one.

Next generation Genesis will also most likely come in V8 to Australia and it won't surprise me if a stripper model for the Australian market is produced to get the retail price down.

Still unknown is GM's answer to the loss of Commodore, but I wouldn't bet against Camaro making its way here in next gen form either.

Realistically Ford may have a two year window to make the most of the Mustang.

My personal bet is a next gen hemi powered Charger will make it to our shores and it will undercut Fords Mustang V8 prices by a considerable amount. Partly because it will be keenly priced and partly because historically Ford Australia have always overpriced imports on launch.

If I worked at Ford I wouldn't think for a minute that there isn't V8 competition coming to Australia for under 100K - because there undoubtedly is. The only question at present is how much competition and how aggressive it will be.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Family car? Like a Falcon? The car that sold 381 last month?
Ill take that bet that it will sell more than that in a month atleast once...

Hell people laughed at me years ago when I said the Ranger would outsell the Falcon and would be the best selling Ford

Once initial demand has been met and the design starts to date a bit in a couple of years, I reckon 200 to 250 a month would be a good figure for Mustang. Ford won't price it cheap and its a halo car anyway.

While the four cylinder model could pick up sales, I remain highly skeptical that will find a real market.

If the new model has any problems after launch, sales might slump quicker than two years in. Its no FPV range replacement and most certainly not a replacement for the cheap and cheerful Commodore SS market.

Ford will get new buyers, but also find a lot of buyers for whom the Mustang might look nice, but for the price or convenience (4 doors) it just doesn't quite make it into a sale. Its a niche car.

[1TUFFUTE]

I still chuckle when I see this thread title in the list!
Do they have an advantage? I don't think so

[AUwindsor]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Family car? Like a Falcon? The car that sold 381 last month?
Ill take that bet that it will sell more than that in a month atleast once...

Hell people laughed at me years ago when I said the Ranger would outsell the Falcon and would be the best selling Ford

I didn't mean just ford family vehicles. Plus the Ranger is a work vehicle.

We'll see with the Mustang.. I predict it won't sell many at all. Of course in the first couple of months the mass of them will move.. and then sales will be one or two a month. The AUD/USD$ will now kill it even more.

[mac_man_luke]

Originally Posted by MethodX

But a lot of the Fords are built in Thai and Indian factories.. so nothing flash really.

They seem to have far better build quality and engineering though.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

I thought Holden/ GM have officially announced Camero was being developed for RHD & coming to Australia. So why do people still think Holden won't have a RWD V8??

They haven't announced anything officially yet, bar they will have some sort of sportscar available, which could be anything.

[Spammy]

I think Ford is the only volume brand in Australia to not offer a mid size soft SUV. Look at Audi / BMW/ Mazda/ Toyota/ Nissan / Volvo ...they have multiple models in that category.

Go the other way its rally only Rolls/ Bentley and Ferrari that don't offer mid sized SUVs.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Spammy

I think Ford is the only volume brand in Australia to not offer a mid size soft SUV. Look at Audi / BMW/ Mazda/ Toyota/ Nissan / Volvo ...they have multiple models in that category.

Go the other way its rally only Rolls/ Bentley and Ferrari that don't offer mid sized SUVs.

The Kuga??

[Spammy]

Originally Posted by vztrt

The Kuga??

I call it a compact/Small SUV. I also call it a car nobody buys.

[naddis01]

If the Kuga is small/compact what do you call the Ecosport?

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Spammy

I call it a compact/Small SUV. I also call it a car nobody buys.

Call it what you want but its CX5 size. So its in the mix there.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by naddis01

If the Kuga is small/compact what do you call the Ecosport?

Waste of time

[new2ford]

The Kuga and Ecosport are Ford's models in this segment, so it's certainly represented, just not big on sales:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J-segment

[Spammy]

Originally Posted by naddis01

If the Kuga is small/compact what do you call the Ecosport?

Didn't even know the Ecosport existed until you mentioned and I then Googled it.

[XR Martin]

Kuga is no smaller than an Xtrail, Outlander, Rav4, IX35, Sportage, Tiguan, CX5, Captiva, CRV, Forester etc