More power for Australia's fastest car

[BENT_8]

Run 'em 'round Bathurst, thats where Aussie performance cars have always proven themselves.

If the two were in the same league it would have been done by now...

[Cobra]

This thread tastes a lot like sour grapes. If we had an FGX GT-H, or something of the equivalent to a GTS, everyone would be creaming their duds over a $100K, 430+kw (on paper) sedan if it had the huge brakes, diff, coolers and gizmos. But FPV don't as they don't even exist anymore. But HSV get bagged for making a sedan that us Ford fans would have loved to see an equivalent FPV. Yeah... sour grapes!

[1TUFFUTE]

You guys don't get it......the power stakes has clearly hit a soft spot at Holden as the red side notoriously doesn't upgrade power often. But all of a sudden, after claiming to have the most powerful......then proven otherwise by the final Ford Gt, they now need to up the power. Funny thing is it needs to be quite a power lift as the GTS was only getting around 320rwkws to the fords 340ish.
(U tube has examples of guys not even getting 300) But You can bang on about power bands and change the subject to who is the fastest, but don't kid yourselves. As soon as this new HSV comes out....and if they succeed, the title will get changed back again to what it was before. The most "powerful"

Disclaimer....I think the GTS is a great car.....just priced far to high for an Aussie v8....and it's ugly as sin.

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by jasen

Whilst the gtf made around 10KW more at peak power... (around 5500rpm)
The gts made around 20kw more right up to that point. There was a dynograph floating aroung from the first test showing that Drive?
Ho would of gest that with 5L DOHC vs 6.2 OHV.

Didn't the GT-F only make more power once with this over-boost BS.

5.0 v 6.2 doesn't matter, just another BS excuse, no one made ford build 5.0s.

At the end of the day as they say when the flag drops the BS stops, the Ford can't be making more power and be slower in a lighter car..

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

You guys don't get it......the power stakes has clearly hit a soft spot at Holden as the red side notoriously doesn't upgrade power often. But all of a sudden, after claiming to have the most powerful......then proven otherwise by the final Ford Gt, they now need to up the power. Funny thing is it needs to be quite a power lift as the GTS was only getting around 320rwkws to the fords 340ish.
(U tube has examples of guys not even getting 300) But You can bang on about power bands and change the subject to who is the fastest, but don't kid yourselves. As soon as this new HSV comes out....and if they succeed, the title will get changed back again to what it was before. The most "powerful"

Disclaimer....I think the GTS is a great car.....just priced far to high for an Aussie v8....and it's ugly as sin.

NO, YOU DONT GET IT AND PROBABLY NEVER WILL!

The GTS was released in 2013, at the time it was the most powerful Aussie built car, as with any natural progression this was upped by FPV with the GTF.
For some reason you, and only you, seem to think that because FPV responded 12 months later, this means Ford can hold the title for ever and never be challenged because its Fords final shot.
Truth is, anyone with an unbiased view will accept that HSV were always going to respond and up the ante, will Ford respond, NO, they have played their final card as far as V8's are concerned and unless you want to look foolish you will admit that.
Just because HSV will be in business long enough to regain that title doesnt mean they have done anything out of the ordinary.

Holden started it all with the HD X2 and HR 186S, Ford introduced the first V8, a 289 in the XR, Holden responded with a 327 in the HK, Ford replied with the 302, Holden upped it again to 350, Ford went further with the 351W, Holden shifted focus to hot 6's, Ford continued with its V8 programme until dropping them in favour of the EFi 6 in 82.
When Holden released the S2 VT it blew the opposition away, we didnt suddenly say that was it, Ford responded with a stroked Windsor.
In 2011 FPV released the 335 s/c V8 and claimed the title.
In 2013 HSV released a supercharged V8 which AT THE TIME was Australias most powerful vehicle to date, 12 months later, in 2014, FPV went 1 better with the GTF 351 and took the title.
In 2015 Holden announce it will raise the bar again and as FPV and Ford are all but done, HSV will more than likely go out as the most powerful V8 car ever produced in Australia.
That is all fact.

Wether you like it or not, HSV have done nothing more than has been done by both manufacturers for 50 years, just because your favourite will not come out on top does not mean the other has played outside the boundaries of what is to be expected.
To suggest otherwise just highlights your immaturity on the subject.

Now your bringing price and looks in to the argument, throw all your toys fella...

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Stefan

You seem a little miffed by this...the gtf being more powerful but slower is IMO nothing to be overly exited about.

HSV will take the mantel, as a Ford enthusiast does it matter? It was always going to happen considering Holden were sticking around a little longer.

Why make improvement despite no competitor, sales! Why upgade from your current HSV if there are no improvements?

Not miffed at all, the race is done, the market is over it, the OEM themselves are over it. From an investors POV why would you throw dead money at a car that is at the top of its pack and wont be challenged?

FPV proved you just need a name and some stickers to makes sales at the end of a products life.

[Chopped]

^ I see they sold 2000 of the VF GTS.
I think HSVs aim is to get some of those owners to upgrade to the last GTS and having extra power might just be the carrot.
It's all about selling cars.

[Express]

Originally Posted by Polyal

FPV proved you just need a name and some stickers to makes sales at the end of a products life.

Then were too frightened to test the appeal of the stickers by restricting the numbers available for purchase and having most of them snapped up and hidden by the collector’s brigade.

Australia has a small diverse performance market and I think HSV has done a fantastic job with the GTS to sell 2000 @ $100K.

[Polyal]

I dont now where that 2000 figure came from, and what percentage is the $100k version. They are numbers which I am sure Ford would love to have but my point was simply about ROI...not whether it was a good idea from an enthusiasts POV.

[Chopped]

" The GTS has been a huge hit for HSV in Australia, with more than 2000 vehicles sold since the Gen-F variant launched in 2013. "

It was in the article, unless it's poorly worded and means ALL of the Gen F HSV models.

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Not miffed at all, the race is done, the market is over it, the OEM themselves are over it. From an investors POV why would you throw dead money at a car that is at the top of its pack and wont be challenged?

FPV proved you just need a name and some stickers to makes sales at the end of a products life.

Sales mate, how hard is that to work out? Holden ford rivalry means that for the most part Holden fans did not by the gt-f and ford fans do not buy a gts.

Gts owners will upgrade to the next gts and they won't bother if it is not better.

Why do idiots line up to buy the next iPhone? Same sales concept for hsv.

[zilo]

Tesla Model S will easily embarass it in 0-100 and the 1/4 mile.


It's endgame for these dinosaurs....sorry to say.

[rancidpunx]

Originally Posted by zilo

Tesla Model S will easily embarass it in 0-100 and the 1/4 mile.


It's endgame for these dinosaurs....sorry to say.

Only if you spend $170k+ for an 85D or $200k+ for the P85D. Filling the HSV will take you all of 3mins and your on your way again after 500ks. A full charge for the Tesla is still an hour. Long day to drive Brisbane to Sydney for instance.
There was no need to bring up your Tesla Fanboi stuff again considering this is a thread about an Australia built car. V8 noise and theatre will always appeal to car lovers.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by zilo

Tesla Model S will easily embarass it in 0-100 and the 1/4 mile.


It's endgame for these dinosaurs....sorry to say.

Only for a select few, its not feasable for 100% of the population to drive electic cars now or anytime in the next 30 years.

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Only for a select few, its not feasable for 100% of the population to drive electic cars now or anytime in the next 30 years.

30 years? Think it will be a bit shorter than that considering there are a number of models available now and more to be released soon.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

30 years? Think it will be a bit shorter than that considering there are a number of models available now and more to be released soon.

Just consider the electrical infastructure required if just 10% of the population drove electic cars.
The electical grid is already at 100% on summer days.

Unless we start building a dozen nuclear plants today...

[Chopped]

Ok back on topic -

Looks like the whole HSV range (except Grange) is getting the LSA but detuned.

http://www.news.com.au/finance/busin...-1227420108535

Holden Special Vehicles to add supercharged V8 power to almost every model in the range

EXCLUSIVE

THE Australian car industry might be dying but it is definitely not going to go quietly.
Holden’s fast-car division is poised to add supercharged V8 power across most of its line-up to farewell the Commodore on a high note from the end of this year.
While Holden sales are at 21-year lows, V8 sales are up and now account for more than one-third of all Commodores sold.
With enthusiasts now the driving force, Holden Special Vehicles has emptied out the big guns and by the end of this year will fit the supercharged V8 that was previously reserved for the $100,000 flagship GTS sedan and GTS Maloo ute, the world’s fastest pick-up.


HSV has refused to comment on the plans but News Corp Australia has been told by well placed sources that the regular versions of the HSV Clubsport and HSV Maloo will get supercharged V8 power, due in showrooms about the same time as the Bathurst 1000 car race in October.
News Corp Australia has been told that HSV was forced to introduce its “big banger” supercharged V8 engine to the more affordable models in its range because, later this year, Holden will fit to Commodore SS models the Corvette V8 that was previously exclusive to HSV.

News Corp Australia understands that GTS owners will still retain bragging rights with the fastest and most powerful engine ever fitted to an Australian-made car.
Contrary to inaccurate media reports, the HSV GTS is expected to retain its output of 430kW of power and 740Nm of torque when the Series II model comes out later this year.
Instead, HSV is understood to have capped the power of the supercharged V8 engine for the Clubsport sedan and wagon and Maloo ute to about 400kW, to retain the GTS’s position as the flagship of the range.
Only the HSV Grange limousine will miss out on supercharged power.
It also means the HSV GTS Maloo, of which 250 were made, will retain its exclusivity as the world’s fastest ute.

Meanwhile, Ford is also getting in on the high horsepower party, with two special editions planned of the XR6 Turbo and XR8 supercharged V8.
Ford is yet to confirm the plans but both models are expected to wear “Sprint” badging from early next year, as the Falcon starts its 10-month march to extinction.

JoshuaDowling


He just couldn't help himself with the end part of the last sentence....

[Express]

Another article in Drive today taking a punt on what may be on the horizon.

Chopped just beat me too it.

Supercharger power beckons for more HSV models


Holden tuner rumoured to be developing supercharged Clubsport and Maloo models.


June 29 2015 - 1:15PM
Sam Hall


Holden's performance arm HSV looks set to introduce supercharged versions of the Clubsport sedan and Maloo ute to its range.

Fairfax Media has been told by sources close to the company that a similar supercharger pack offered on the flagship HSV GTS will be extended to other models within the HSV range.

It is thought that doing so would further leverage HSV products from Holden's garden variety SS Commodore, which will be uprated from a 6.0-litre V8 to a 6.2-litre V8 later this year.

R8 versions of the Clubsport and Maloo loom as the most likely candidates for a supercharger upgrade. Both are currently fitted with a 6.2-litre naturally-aspirated V8 that produces either 325kW in regular form or 340kW in R8 guise.

Unlike the GTS, which has been tuned to 430kW and 740Nm, the uprated R8 Clubsport and Maloo variants will likely feature smaller outputs below 400kW.

A HSV spokesman declined to comment on the speculation, saying "we do not comment on future product".

As revealed by Drive last week, HSV is also preparing to send off the GTS with a bang by adding more power to its LSA engine. Priced at just under $100,000, the uprated GTS would continue to stand above other supercharged HSV models with unique magnetic dampers, larger brakes, manual or automatic transmissions, tail shaft, differential and rear drive axles.

HSV's last-hurrah models will coincide with a new 6.2-litre naturally-aspirated V8 finding its way into the final update of Holden's SS Commodore – raising power from the current 270kW to more than 300kW.

As reported by Drive in May, the Series II VF Commodore is set to be released this later this year with an uprated engine along with modest styling and cosmetic revisions.

It is also understood that ute and wagon variants will also be lightly updated at the rear – bringing the first rear-end styling change to those models since the VE Commodore was launched in 2006.

http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/s...29-gi0f8c.html

[responsef6]

Originally Posted by zilo

Tesla Model S will easily embarass it in 0-100 and the 1/4 mile.


It's endgame for these dinosaurs....sorry to say.

And 100 million years later, kids and adults alike are still fascinated with dinosaurs... What's the big hit at the movies in June 2015...another jurassic park!

Tesla s might be like the woolly mammoth, an in between step in evolution after the dinosaurs that no one barely remembers.

Zilo, I hope you enjoy your tesla s... But hang on, you're not actually going to buy one, are you... Cos their too expensive and soon to be outdated with their heavy 2015 batteries, minimal range and super long recharging times. Maybe you just put a poster on the wall, made a tesla pic your desktop image and thought you'd hit the forums.

Meanwhile many on this forum you aim to insult with your dinosaur comment are actually owning these awesome cars and out having fun with them.

I like Aventadores, i can't afford them but maybe i should go on a Shelby cobra forum and tell the guys that own them their cars are old and antiquated and lambos are so much better.

That is basically what you did here. Does that give you a different perspective on how you actually appear to most of us.

Not feeling as cool as you thought you might when you typed your sad post.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by rancidpunx

Only if you spend $170k+ for an 85D or $200k+ for the P85D. Filling the HSV will take you all of 3mins and your on your way again after 500ks. A full charge for the Tesla is still an hour. Long day to drive Brisbane to Sydney for instance.
There was no need to bring up your Tesla Fanboi stuff again considering this is a thread about an Australia built car. V8 noise and theatre will always appeal to car lovers.

Australia's fastest car? Australian built car?

The panels may have been stamped here but it's just another detroit drivetrain pal.


Unless you are a delusional holden fanboi .

[arronm]

Cool. Looks like the xr8s get a sprint badge. Maybe some new floor mats as well

[Express]

Do you have inside info on those new floor mats or are you just speculating?

God I hope you’re right.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

NO, YOU DONT GET IT AND PROBABLY NEVER WILL!

The GTS was released in 2013, at the time it was the most powerful Aussie built car, as with any natural progression this was upped by FPV with the GTF.
For some reason you, and only you, seem to think that because FPV responded 12 months later, this means Ford can hold the title for ever and never be challenged because its Fords final shot.
Truth is, anyone with an unbiased view will accept that HSV were always going to respond and up the ante, will Ford respond, NO, they have played their final card as far as V8's are concerned and unless you want to look foolish you will admit that.
Just because HSV will be in business long enough to regain that title doesnt mean they have done anything out of the ordinary.

Holden started it all with the HD X2 and HR 186S, Ford introduced the first V8, a 289 in the XR, Holden responded with a 327 in the HK, Ford replied with the 302, Holden upped it again to 350, Ford went further with the 351W, Holden shifted focus to hot 6's, Ford continued with its V8 programme until dropping them in favour of the EFi 6 in 82.
When Holden released the S2 VT it blew the opposition away, we didnt suddenly say that was it, Ford responded with a stroked Windsor.
In 2011 FPV released the 335 s/c V8 and claimed the title.
In 2013 HSV released a supercharged V8 which AT THE TIME was Australias most powerful vehicle to date, 12 months later, in 2014, FPV went 1 better with the GTF 351 and took the title.
In 2015 Holden announce it will raise the bar again and as FPV and Ford are all but done, HSV will more than likely go out as the most powerful V8 car ever produced in Australia.
That is all fact.

Wether you like it or not, HSV have done nothing more than has been done by both manufacturers for 50 years, just because your favourite will not come out on top does not mean the other has played outside the boundaries of what is to be expected.
To suggest otherwise just highlights your immaturity on the subject.

Now your bringing price and looks in to the argument, throw all your toys fella...

Wow bro u just went on a rant for absolute no reason. You misunderstood me big time. My point was they (at the time) claimed to have the most powerful Aussie car,so did the press. Once that was disproved with the unbiased rerun of the dyno tests, (which for your info was done over nine times for the ford back to back to try and get heat soak) holdens story changed from most "powerful" to the fastest.....and so did the media.
I have absolute no quarrel with companies uping the ante on one another each model.
Another point....you can't advertise a car as having "the most powerful power curve in Aus". So this next updated HSV had better be a reasonable good power hike.
That's the points I was making....hardly unreasonable and certainly warranted considering the actual facts regarding that famed dodgy dyno battle.
And also, I'm pretty sure PRICE and LOOKS are important to those looking at the best from each brand so I think your rant is unwarranted.

I also think you should do some more research on who had the most powerful Aus car even when the GTS was first released.
(Many GT335s dyno well over 300...close to their badge even.GTSs....very similiar)

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by Chopped

Ok back on topic

News Corp Australia understands that GTS owners will still retain bragging rights with the fastest and most powerful engine ever fitted to an Australian-made car.
Contrary to inaccurate media reports, the HSV GTS is expected to retain its output of 430kW of power and 740Nm of torque when the Series II model comes out later this year.
Instead, HSV is understood to have capped the power of the supercharged V8 engine for the Clubsport sedan and wagon and Maloo ute to about 400kW, ..

Well that's interesting......seeing as 'BENT8' is so passionate on the subject, maybe 'BENT8' can keep us updated on who the most powerful car is soon...

And I feel bad for pointing it out but did any of you Holden loving sheep glance straight over the media once again calling the HSV Australia's most powerful car?.....when it's not

[701let]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

Well that's interesting......seeing as 'BENT8' is so passionate on the subject, maybe 'BENT8' can keep us updated on who the most powerful car is soon...

And I feel bad for pointing it out but did any of you Holden loving sheep glance straight over the media once again calling the HSV Australia's most powerful car?.....when it's not

You need to get over it. You are embarrassing yourself.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by 701let

You need to get over it. You are embarrassing yourself.

Every time I stick up for Ford there's always 10 Holden guys pushing back, so it doesn't bother me bud. I'm not embarassed to be a passionate ford fan.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Sales mate, how hard is that to work out? Holden ford rivalry means that for the most part Holden fans did not by the gt-f and ford fans do not buy a gts.

Gts owners will upgrade to the next gts and they won't bother if it is not better.

Why do idiots line up to buy the next iPhone? Same sales concept for hsv.

I get the theory but that's works for products that are mass produced and have a small purchase price.

I'm certainly not saying they wont up the GTS power its just that they dont have too (I cringe at taking the above media releases as examples...buuut..). Why spend millions on new tunes/certification etc when its already on top?

Current GTS owners will buy the "last run" GTS even if it had the same amount of power (and if timed nicely their leases may be running out)..throw in some unique colours, stripes ala GTF and boom...cars sold...with minimal outlay.

[MethodX]

Originally Posted by zilo

Australia's fastest car? Australian built car?

The panels may have been stamped here but it's just another detroit drivetrain pal.


Unless you are a delusional holden fanboi .

Both GM and Ford are Yank multinationals right?
As we saw with the US parent pulling the Ford pin on Aus manufacture.

The Phase 3 used Detroit drivetrain...... does that knock it down a peg or 2?

[GTP534]

We should make the most of it; the days of buying new reasonably priced home grown V8 (and turbo 6 for that matter) 4-door family performance cars will soon be gone and we will move into another Age, the Post Dinosaur.

We moved from Northen Ireland to Australia in 1966 just when the local industry was beginning to embrace V8s and we've been here through almost 50 years of Australian Muscle Cars.

I used to love reading the Friday newspapers with their motoring sections and remember especially the XU-1 release with the youth oriented colours. "I'll get one of those when I'm older". Never did though, even though I was a Holden fan at first. Changed to Ford in 1989 with an EA - that was a leap of faith!

Good on Holden/HSV for continuing to develop their product - as an engineer I admire and acknowledge the engineering in the GTS, they've been very purposeful about it.

Whether that makes it a better drive than an FPV, GT-F in particular, will depend largely on which side of the fence you sit. I hope Ford do release XR6T and XR8 Sprints, that will fuel the Ford v Holden debate a bit longer, so some enjoyable days ahead.

Now, where's my Mustang?

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Current GTS owners will buy the "last run" GTS even if it had the same amount of power (and if timed nicely their leases may be running out)..throw in some unique colours, stripes ala GTF and boom...cars sold...with minimal outlay.

You do realize the GTF went to 351kw over the 335 on a standard GT.

OK for Ford but Holden are wasting money by doing something similar.