Trade in rort?

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by CODSASR

The stamp duty on used car is $8.20 per $200 of sale price. If bought from a dealer the buyer does not transfer the rego the dealer does that basicly its pay your money and drive away no contact with vicroads is required from the buyer. If private the buyer has to hand in transfer, roady and pay relevant fees

So we're not actually talking about 'all inclusive' drive away advertised pricing. Does the sticker price on the windscreen of dealer used cars in Vic, include all road costs & is it mandated by law ?

It sound like you're selling used cars the way new cars used to be sold in NSW. In other words if the car has a $15,000 price tag on the windscreen, it is actually $15,000 plus on 'on-road costs', which the dealer then adds to the final price & includes in the payable price. The dealer then handles the payment to rego authority on behalf of the buyer.

Dr Terry

[Random Ranger]

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

Not correct !!

With used cars, like used furniture & a few other items where a licensed dealer is involved, GST is 'deemed' to have been paid on the 2nd hand unit if purchased privately. If the dealer buys the car off another dealer, simple, the GST is stated the sellers invoice.

Using my example above, if a dealer buys (or trades) a car from a private (non-ABN entity) for say $10,000 & then re-sells it for say $15,000. He claims the 'deemed' GST on the $10,000 ($909.09) & receives it as an input credit.

When he receives the $10,000, $1363.63 is the GST component. Therefore $1363.64 minus $909.09 (=$454.54) is the GST payable by the dealer. This figure is same as the GST component of the $5,000 margin.

I didn't realise that Vic used car dealers were forced to include stamp duty & transfer in their advertised price, see my other post, but the GST on that deal is only $454.54, not $1363.63, a big difference.

Dr Terry

Unless you have a receipt stating the GST amount and the sellers ABN you can NOT claim the GST, if you are, the tax man is going to ream you!

Q. If I buy a used vehicle costing $25,000 for my small business, which is registered for GST, can I claim the GST credit if I purchase it from a dealer? What if I buy a used car privately, does GST apply?


A. Only businesses registered for GST can claim a credit for GST in the purchase cost of an item. In addition only businesses registered for GST can charge the tax. In your case, if you buy the vehicle from a GST-registered dealer, you would be able to claim up to 100 per cent of the GST included in the purchase price. If the vehicle was purchased from a private person who is not registered the GST, none would have been included in the purchase price.

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[Blue Shadow]

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

In NSW the selling dealer notifies the RMS that he has sold the car to Mr XXX, then Mr XXX has 14 days to transfer the rego into his name, but the new owner pays for that.

Also in NSW, the stamp duty is a % of the vehicle's selling price. Since a lot a price haggling goes on with used car pricing, how does the dealer know how much the stamp duty is, or is this all calculated it the time of the haggling ?

Does this mean that the new owner doesn't pay any fee when he transfers the car into his name online ?

How does this work with private sales ?

Dr Terry

Talking about dealer used and yes its calculated on whatever you pay for the car

[Blue Shadow]

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

So we're not actually talking about 'all inclusive' drive away advertised pricing. Does the sticker price on the windscreen of dealer used cars in Vic, include all road costs & is it mandated by law ?

It sound like you're selling used cars the way new cars used to be sold in NSW. In other words if the car has a $15,000 price tag on the windscreen, it is actually $15,000 plus on 'on-road costs', which the dealer then adds to the final price & includes in the payable price. The dealer then handles the payment to rego authority on behalf of the buyer.

Dr Terry

They can also be advertised as $15000 drive away. Dont know about vic but some states mandste it as drive away

[Brazen]

A dented 2010 XR6 turbo with scratches... I don't think 11k is outrageous. But be careful comparing your cars listed on Carsales, just because they ask 20 doesn't mean they will get it.

Keep pushing them on the price, I'm sure they will work on the changeover.

While you work it all out, chuck it up on Carsales and see what happens.

[CODSASR]

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

So we're not actually talking about 'all inclusive' drive away advertised pricing. Does the sticker price on the windscreen of dealer used cars in Vic, include all road costs & is it mandated by law ?

It sound like you're selling used cars the way new cars used to be sold in NSW. In other words if the car has a $15,000 price tag on the windscreen, it is actually $15,000 plus on 'on-road costs', which the dealer then adds to the final price & includes in the payable price. The dealer then handles the payment to rego authority on behalf of the buyer.

Dr Terry

Yes whats on the window is drive away you dont pay any extra cost on top. So say the car is $10000 they then make window price $10457 so $10k for car $420 for s/d and $37 for transfer fee. If you haggle them down then its all recalculated.... basicly once you pay the dealer for the car theres no more costs

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[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by Random Ranger

Unless you have a receipt stating the GST amount and the sellers ABN you can NOT claim the GST, if you are, the tax man is going to ream you!

AFAIK you can. There are 'special rules' for certain 2nd hand goods. Your business must have a 2nd hand dealers license & this be the main business of that ABN. A 'normal' business with an ABN cannot claim these credits.

https://www.ato.gov.au/Business/GST/...econdhandgoods

Dr Terry

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by CODSASR

Yes whats on the window is drive away you dont pay any extra cost on top. So say the car is $10000 they then make window price $10457 so $10k for car $420 for s/d and $37 for transfer fee. If you haggle them down then its all recalculated.... basicly once you pay the dealer for the car theres no more costs

I'm probably being a little pedantic on this point, but if the 'big number' on the windscreen is $10,000, can he then say "oh but that's plus on-roads", or is that inclusion mandated by law, as it is with new cars ?

I do get it that the dealer pays the stamp duty on behalf of the owner, but is it included, by law, in the 'sticker price'.

Dr Terry

[Blue Shadow]

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

I'm probably being a little pedantic on this point, but if the 'big number' on the windscreen is $10,000, can he then say "oh that's plus inroads", or is that inclusion & mandated by law, as it is with new cars ?

I do get it that the dealer pays the stamp duty on behalf of the owner, but is it included, by law, in the 'sticker price'.

Dr Terry

Depends on what state you ate in

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by Blue Shadow

Depends on what state you ate in

I assumed we are talking about Vic in particular & how it differs to NSW.

BTW, what happens in Qld, regarding used car dealer advertised pricing & how rego is transferred.

Dr Terry

[Blue Shadow]

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

I assumed we are talking about Vic in particular & how it differs to NSW.

Dr Terry

No i always said dont know what vic does, but i know they can do frive away pricing dont know if they hsve to do it thay. Im not saying i agree with it it just is what it is

[RANGEREST]

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

I'm probably being a little pedantic on this point, but if the 'big number' on the windscreen is $10,000, can he then say "oh but that's plus on-roads", or is that inclusion mandated by law, as it is with new cars ?

I do get it that the dealer pays the stamp duty on behalf of the owner, but is it included, by law, in the 'sticker price'.

Dr Terry

In Vic the big number on the windscreen is the drive away no more to pay price, even on used cars.
BTW Random is correct with the GST.
https://www.ato.gov.au/Business/GST/...otor-vehicles/
Purchasing a second-hand motor vehicle

If you purchase a second-hand motor vehicle from someone who is not registered for GST and you are purchasing the vehicle to sell or exchange it, you may be entitled to claim a GST credit. If the cost of the vehicle is more than $300, you can claim the GST credit when you sell the vehicle, provided the sale of the vehicle by you is a taxable sale. The credit is the lesser of either:

• one-eleventh of the amount you paid for the vehicle
• the amount of GST payable when the vehicle is sold.

If you purchase a second-hand vehicle from someone who is not registered for GST and you don’t plan to sell or exchange the vehicle, you cannot claim a GST credit.

[CODSASR]

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

I assumed we are talking about Vic in particular & how it differs to NSW.

BTW, what happens in Qld, regarding used car dealer advertised pricing & how rego is transferred.

Dr Terry

So vic law is the car must have total price displayed on the data sheet which is displayed in a side window.... so they could use stickers or paint pen to write the price of the car alone but the sheet that is displayed has to have total drive away price displayed

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[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by RANGEREST

In Vic the big number on the windscreen is the drive away no more to pay price, even on used cars.
BTW Random is correct with the GST.

OK, got all dealer advertised prices must include all on-road costs no matter whether they are new or used cars. AFAIK it is not like this in other states, that law only applies to new cars.

I disagree on the the GST though. Read this link:- https://www.ato.gov.au/Business/GST/...econdhandgoods

To my knowledge the second hand dealer having a dealer's license is one of the conditions listed.

Just imagine if a 2nd hand dealer purchased a car from a private (non-ABN) entity for say $50,000 & then on sold it for $52,000, because it was a dog or a slow selling model. Under your rules he would have to pay the ATO $5,000 & yet only had a margin of $2,000, so he loses $3000.

The private/2nd hand dealer thing was one the concessions made in the early days of GST to avoid such things. It was mainly to prevent price inflation.

Dr Terry

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by RANGEREST

Purchasing a second-hand motor vehicle

If you purchase a second-hand motor vehicle from someone who is not registered for GST and you are purchasing the vehicle to sell or exchange it, you may be entitled to claim a GST credit. If the cost of the vehicle is more than $300, you can claim the GST credit when you sell the vehicle, provided the sale of the vehicle by you is a taxable sale. The credit is the lesser of either:

• one-eleventh of the amount you paid for the vehicle
• the amount of GST payable when the vehicle is sold.

If you purchase a second-hand vehicle from someone who is not registered for GST and you don’t plan to sell or exchange the vehicle, you cannot claim a GST credit.

Isn't this what I said ??

Dr Terry

[axe]

Originally Posted by Brazen

A dented 2010 XR6 turbo with scratches... I don't think 11k is outrageous. But be careful comparing your cars listed on Carsales, just because they ask 20 doesn't mean they will get it.

Keep pushing them on the price, I'm sure they will work on the changeover.

While you work it all out, chuck it up on Carsales and see what happens.

Not going to trade it at this stage. Wondering if it's worth getting the paint issues fixed and then putting it on carsales or just putting it up with the price reduced by $1500.

[Chopped]

You might have got a higher trade in on a less popular model in the Ford range.

You want a highly desired limited numbers model (Sprint), unfortunately for you, they get to call the shots on this one. They know that Sprint will sell regardless so why give it away.

[Beastie]

Originally Posted by axe

Not going to trade it at this stage. Wondering if it's worth getting the paint issues fixed and then putting it on carsales or just putting it up with the price reduced by $1500.

IMHO, I wouldn't bother getting it painted - just be prepared to drop the price a little (like you suggested).

[LeadFoot81]

Originally Posted by Smoke Pursuit

Difference is the dealer would have sold it for 24 not 21. Why? because people will pay more for the dealer experience (ease of finance, warranty etc).

Tell that to the (smart) people that bought the car off me with no hassles whatsoever for 3 grand less than a dealer would've asked, with RWC and 2 years factory warranty (not dodgy dealership warranty)

After my recent few dealer 'experiences' I'll stick to private sales from now on.

And I'm fine with the dealer missing out on 6K, as I got the 3K extra I needed.

[axe]

Originally Posted by LeadFoot81

Tell that to the (smart) people that bought the car off me with no hassles whatsoever for 3 grand less than a dealer would've asked, with RWC and 2 years factory warranty (not dodgy dealership warranty)

After my recent few dealer 'experiences' I'll stick to private sales from now on.

And I'm fine with the dealer missing out on 6K, as I got the 3K extra I needed.

It's the principle of the thing.

[fordomatic]

Car is worth about 17k on the private market maybe even a little less if it presents in bad condition. 11k is not an unreasonable trade in value considering the car you want to buy.

I have never bought a used car from a dealer, and i never will. The very reason being is they tart up cars that weren't originally in great condition and charge an extra few thousand dollars for the trouble. When i buy a car i make sure they are immaculate, so going to the private seller gives me a first hand view of the condition that car is in.

If you don't like the trade in chuck it on carsales for 17k and it would sell within two weeks if you present it well, it's all about presentation. Every car i have sold has been gone within two weeks to the first person that looked at it

[Beastie]

Originally Posted by fordomatic

Car is worth about 17k on the private market maybe even a little less if it presents in bad condition. 11k is not an unreasonable trade in value considering the car you want to buy.

I have never bought a used car from a dealer, and i never will. The very reason being is they tart up cars that weren't originally in great condition and charge an extra few thousand dollars for the trouble. When i buy a car i make sure they are immaculate, so going to the private seller gives me a first hand view of the condition that car is in.

If you don't like the trade in chuck it on carsales for 17k and it would sell within two weeks if you present it well, it's all about presentation. Every car i have sold has been gone within two weeks to the first person that looked at it

Whilst I agree with this re presentation, the price has to be in the right ball park too - just think like the dealer would... someone is going to come and have a look at a beautifully presented car and fall in love with it, but then human nature is to offer less than the advertised price.

[fordomatic]

Also presentation goes a long way when you trade,

When i went with my uncle to buy his 2012 FG GT brand new he took his 03 BA XR8 ute with 150,000km to see if they would do a good trade, he presented it immaculately. They gave him $14,000 for the ute, which is the same as they were selling privately. He paid $62,500 for the GT which was a great price back then, minus the 14k he got for his ute of course. The dealer rang him four days later and said he sold it for $17,500.

[Tassie f100]

Originally Posted by fordomatic

Car is worth about 17k on the private market maybe even a little less if it presents in bad condition. 11k is not an unreasonable trade in value considering the car you want to buy.

I have never bought a used car from a dealer, and i never will. The very reason being is they tart up cars that weren't originally in great condition and charge an extra few thousand dollars for the trouble. When i buy a car i make sure they are immaculate, so going to the private seller gives me a first hand view of the condition that car is in.

If you don't like the trade in chuck it on carsales for 17k and it would sell within two weeks if you present it well, it's all about presentation. Every car i have sold has been gone within two weeks to the first person that looked at it

What about the other side of the story where you hear of people having a problem with the car and just getting a patch up job done (don't spend any money on it I'm trading it in or selling it next week)In my time in the motor trade I saw and heard many instances of outright lying and deception by private sellers.A quick cheap cover up repair is more likely by private sellers rather than dealers who stand behind their sales rather than the " Concrete" warranty of privateeers

[mechanic]

Originally Posted by Tassie f100

What about the other side of the story where you hear of people having a problem with the car and just getting a patch up job done (don't spend any money on it I'm trading it in or selling it next week)In my time in the motor trade I saw and heard many instances of outright lying and deception by private sellers.A quick cheap cover up repair is more likely by private sellers rather than dealers who stand behind their sales rather than the " Concrete" warranty of privateeers

Taking that one step further, dealers are aware of all the tricks of the trade.
Some really shonky vehicles come into dealerships and car yards so I can understand why they're wary.
I'm no fan of car salesmen though, I think they're about level with politicians and lawyers aren't they?

[MercurySilver]

Just trade the ******* thing in
Youll be behind a new sprint with a grin from ear to ear and wont even remember the date time price or car you even traded in!

[fordomatic]

Originally Posted by Tassie f100

What about the other side of the story where you hear of people having a problem with the car and just getting a patch up job done (don't spend any money on it I'm trading it in or selling it next week)In my time in the motor trade I saw and heard many instances of outright lying and deception by private sellers.A quick cheap cover up repair is more likely by private sellers rather than dealers who stand behind their sales rather than the " Concrete" warranty of privateeers

Never happened to me and i have bought 12 used cars privately. I can tell when i meet the person, look the car over thoroughly and take it for a test drive if something is wrong.

[danzvtil]

Trade in pricing is hardly a rort, you are buying a limited edition highly sought after model, so they wont fall over themselves giving you a huge trade in price. Plus they only want to pay you wholesale for it.
If you have the time and patience, sell private, but if it was me I could hardly be bothered.

[Tassie f100]

Yeah well the stock answer when you ask someone about the new car.Well the old girl was starting to have a few problems so I thought best get rid of it while it's still going alright

[Blue Shadow]

Originally Posted by Tassie f100

What about the other side of the story where you hear of people having a problem with the car and just getting a patch up job done (don't spend any money on it I'm trading it in or selling it next week)In my time in the motor trade I saw and heard many instances of outright lying and deception by private sellers.A quick cheap cover up repair is more likely by private sellers rather than dealers who stand behind their sales rather than the " Concrete" warranty of privateeers

Yep, there is 2 sides to every story, private people tell lies too