Are CVTs really that bad?

[zlcrazy]

Originally Posted by EDManual

Just my 2 cents. I hate them :-) If you like driving, just dont get one.

Why do you hate them tho?

[winlucky]

I've been trying to understand CVT and hope someone can shed some more light on it.
From what I've been hearing from friends and reading this thread, there are people who like the CVT, people who don't mind it and also people who just hate it. So it appears like its a personal preference thing. But in terms of mechanics and engineering, what physical problems can CVT cause or what advantage does it have against other transmissions?

Thanks!!

[SumoDog68]

CVT is a lawnmower or a moped transmission. Advantages are that is cheap to manufacture and simple in operation. Disadvantages are that it can't transfer high torque (max around 300Nm) and it is not enjoyable to drive. Subaru (and some others ) even introduce artificial software controlled "shift points" to make cvt feel like a stepped transmission. It is continuously variable transmission and if they wanted stepped transmission they should install one instead of faking it.

[Vesper Martini]

They are a bit more than a Lawnmower trans..
People used to praise an Auto for being good when you could hardly feel the shift. a CVT has no shift to feel.

Nissan Pathfinder for example has 325Nm

[SpoolMan]

Originally Posted by winlucky

I've been trying to understand CVT and hope someone can shed some more light on it.
From what I've been hearing from friends and reading this thread, there are people who like the CVT, people who don't mind it and also people who just hate it. So it appears like its a personal preference thing. But in terms of mechanics and engineering, what physical problems can CVT cause or what advantage does it have against other transmissions?

Thanks!!

Personal experience we own a CVT.
Ours is smooth as, smoothest operational auto I have owned we have had it for 2.5 years, I lot of Hwy and City driving.
Should we have a issue I will let the thread know right away.
You want a bad auto try a Focus DSG that's worse auto ever.

[SumoDog68]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

They are a bit more than a Lawnmower trans..
People used to praise an Auto for being good when you could hardly feel the shift. a CVT has no shift to feel.

Nissan Pathfinder for example has 325Nm

I did say around 300 and CVT used by Nissan is probably one of highest rated units as used in cars. As for shift feel i would agree except that CVT locks engine in a max torque zone and transmission changes ratio to suit. In practise that means engine will sit at 2500 revs while cvt does its work. That type of operation is what you generally see in industrial machinery - in cars half of the fun of driving is engine going through the rev range and gearbox (or a driver in case of manual transmission) picks the next gear.

[BENT_8]

I recall my Father saying 30+ years ago that he would never own a vehicle with an automatic transmission as they were crap.
At the tender age of 75, with buggered knee's and arthritic hands he reluctantly back flipped and bought a Hyundai Accent hatch with one of those crappy Auto's in it..
Never looked back.

CVT's will get better with time too.

[.:4:.]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

I recall my Father saying 30+ years ago that he would never own a vehicle with an automatic transmission as they were crap.
At the tender age of 75, with buggered knee's and arthritic hands he reluctantly back flipped and bought a Hyundai Accent hatch with one of those crappy Auto's in it..
Never looked back.

CVT's will get better with time too.

My father in law was the same. A couple of years back the inlaws had to get an auto due to my mother in laws bad leg. Up untill due to a rapid decline in mental health caused my father in laws licence to be cancelled, he would dangerously drive using both feet. Left foot braking. He would take off by loading the stall on the brake then slowly release the brake like it was the clutch. Hmmm.. Anyrate. I find the operation of a cvt interesting. They way they can create (not quite) almost infinite gear ratios makes for some interesting reading. They kind of use the trans to moderate speed and keep the motor in its happy place doing so. I'm not up on the reliability part, but I can understand why people find them un exciting to drive. They seem to be efficient in the way they operate. As I said, an interesting thing to read up on.

[nstg8a]

We have a Subaru xv with the cvt and mostly it's pretty good.

When commuting or out for a drive in the country it's absolutely fine, I find its only when I want to drive a bit more aggressively that it really shows its limitations.

Oh, and shift paddles on something like this is the biggest sales gimmick ever.

[Blem]

We have a Lancer 2.4lt GSR.
While I don't particularly enjoy/like the sensation of no set gears the car goes reasonably well. Stomp on the accelerator from standing & it pulls away well.
Cart has only done about 20k but no issues.
Our FG F6 with the ZF is waay more fun to drive but as a daily the CVT works.

[.:4:.]

As the daily I tote around in a manual 2.2 ranger. I often spend 2 or 3 hours in stop start traffic between jobs (plus the 40 minutes to work and the hour and 20 home). I asked for an auto, but copped the manual. Considering spirited driving us out of the question in the ranger because all the stuff in the back moves and I carry a lot of fluoro tubes etc that are prone to smash, a cvt would fit the bill. That and a stall converter to counter the turbo lag and short 1st gear.

[David222]

I find the 300nm figure mentioned for CVTs very interesting.

I drove a Pathfinder (325nm) before buying a Kluger, and thought they drove alright for their intended purpose.

But after finding out a mate, had 2 gear box replacements in his Pathfinder with under 40,000km on the clock, and a quick google search of Pathfinder CVT shudder issues. The known reliability of a 6 speed auto sounded really appealing to me. Yet I have family who have had CVT's for 10 years in smaller cars and had no issues other than needing to change the oil a couple of times, which would be expected for the age and distance covered.

I assume over time they will refine the higher torque applications.

[SumoDog68]

Originally Posted by David222

I find the 300nm figure mentioned for CVTs very interesting.

I drove a Pathfinder (325nm) before buying a Kluger, and thought they drove alright for their intended purpose.

But after finding out a mate, had 2 gear box replacements in his Pathfinder with under 40,000km on the clock, and a quick google search of Pathfinder CVT shudder issues. The known reliability of a 6 speed auto sounded really appealing to me. Yet I have family who have had CVT's for 10 years in smaller cars and had no issues other than needing to change the oil a couple of times, which would be expected for the age and distance covered.

I assume over time they will refine the higher torque applications.

Nissan was running CVT in their VQ Maximas and Muranos and they had issues with the gearboxes while otherwise being great cars.
CVT torque transmission limit is due to their construction - belt is running in between two split pulleys which change diameter. Belt is sliding on those pulleys and is a high wear item because of high friction and losses are high .
CVT is great for industrial machinery , snowmobiles , mowers etc. - for me cvt is a deal breaker , it is hard to believe that current WRX is running cvt gearbox it would be a great car with decent TC or dsg auto.

[Marquis]

Are you in brisbane. If so ill take ya for a spin.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by SumoDog68

As for shift feel i would agree except that CVT locks engine in a max torque zone and transmission changes ratio to suit. In practise that means engine will sit at 2500 revs while cvt does its work. That type of operation is what you generally see in industrial machinery - in cars half of the fun of driving is engine going through the rev range and gearbox (or a driver in case of manual transmission) picks the next gear.

You are describing an HST transmission, like what I have in my small Tractor.
The CVT with drop its revs away to idle when cruising, and no load

very different things, take one for a drive

[stazza]

Never drove a CVT equipped car before, but bought a brand new Subaru Forester XT Premium 2.0 turbo last week. It has the CVT and also paddle shift.

I find the gearbox to be fine as far as commuting in traffic and your normal driving routine. Very smooth and very responsive. Always seems to be in the sweet spot when needing to accelerate around someone or take off from a corner.

I tried the paddle shift once the other day and I find it to be a little laggy and very strange. Not quite sure when to shift etc...hard to explain. It's something I'll need to experiment further with before I completely write it off. To be honest I can't really see the point of the paddle shift.

But as far as leaving the car in "D" and going about your daily business it is perfect. Way smoother than my ZF ever was in the GS.

Really happy with it to be honest. Not sure how they fare in the reliability stakes or if it will ever get lazy or slushy. I've got 5 years warranty so I'm not too concerned.

[zlcrazy]

Thanks for so many replies. Keep them coming ;-)

[vztrt]

The rolla i drove with the cvt was good (pitty the rest of the car is mind numbing).

At the end of the day its an auto most cars with autos are fairly boring.

[SumoDog68]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

You are describing an HST transmission, like what I have in my small Tractor.
The CVT with drop its revs away to idle when cruising, and no load

very different things, take one for a drive

Hydrostatic transmission is very different to CVT but they might share the engine drone :-) I have driven CVT equipped cars and they are programmed differently depending on the manufacturer. Not very exciting to drive IMO.
CVTs are popular with snowmobiles, mopeds ,mowers etc.
http://www.amsnow.com/how-to-tech/20...ng-and-the-cvt

[Vesper Martini]

CVT should drone any more than any other Auto. certainly not as much as an E series or AU Falcon with a 4speed Auto

HST Drone or noise comes from the fluid trans not the engine, I can't see any similar comparisons between the two.

PS good Article of the evolution of CVT - good tech :-)

[Sprintey]

Hey zlcrazy, just a reminder that Mazda still install torque converter gearboxes in their SUVs and still get pretty good fuel figures. The cars handle well, too...

Reading at their site on all the steps they took with the 'skyactiv' engineering program reveals their box is pretty much the ZF, only made smaller/lighter/less moving parts and optimised for FWD/AWD.

Otherwise it seems some CVTs are better than others.

[stazza]

I 100% get no drone on my CVT Forester. I have heard that Mitsubishi CVTs are woeful though

[SpoolMan]

Originally Posted by stazza

I 100% get no drone on my CVT Forester. I have heard that Mitsubishi CVTs are woeful though

No drone here from our Qashqai either and whilst the daughters Outlander isn't as smooth as the Nissan it certainly doesn't drone, purchased new now 125,000klm.

A lot of post's in the thread are clearly not coming from CVT owners, just opinions not personal experiences.

[XR Martin]

The 'drone' noise described is the sound they make when accelerating hard which comes from the engine constantly sitting at the same revs. Basically a vuvuzela of the automotive World
This is the reason most have 'steps' in the transmission, to vary the revs of the engine so it doesnt drone so much.
They all do it, whether the owners think they do or not.
Nissans in my experience are the worst for this noise, followed by Mitsubishi with Toyota the best of the lot.

Ive often wondered what a V8 would sound with a CVT...

[stazza]

Originally Posted by XR Martin

The 'drone' noise described is the sound they make when accelerating hard which comes from the engine constantly sitting at the same revs. Basically a vuvuzela of the automotive World
This is the reason most have 'steps' in the transmission, to vary the revs of the engine so it doesnt drone so much.
They all do it, whether the owners think they do or not.
Nissans in my experience are the worst for this noise, followed by Mitsubishi with Toyota the best of the lot.

Ive often wondered what a V8 would sound with a CVT...

Well then it's no different to the GS with the Circle D coverter holding revs.

Do you own a car with a CVT? I have just done 800kms in the Forester this weekend and can confirm there is no "drone". Yes it does hold revs to an extent but it certainly doesn't have a constant drone.

[SumoDog68]

Originally Posted by SpoolMan

No drone here from our Qashqai either and whilst the daughters Outlander isn't as smooth as the Nissan it certainly doesn't drone, purchased new now 125,000klm.

A lot of post's in the thread are clearly not coming from CVT owners, just opinions not personal experiences.

One reason the CVT opinions are not coming from the owners is because some people find them to be a deal breakers and don't purchase cars that run them.
I hired CVT equipped cars and driven them for long enough that i know i don't like them.

CVT https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJZycDVUd1A vs DSG - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCsDiWQG6kI vs TC Auto - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dWgW63NmJc
Subaru programmed their Lineartronic to have "steps" and it works quite well but it is still a CVT. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC43i7Xlqqw

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by stazza

Well then it's no different to the GS with the Circle D coverter holding revs.

Do you own a car with a CVT? I have just done 800kms in the Forester this weekend and can confirm there is no "drone". Yes it does hold revs to an extent but it certainly doesn't have a constant drone.

Dont own one, however I have driven dozens of them over the last decade though work.

[SpoolMan]

Hire cars you got to love them..

[roddy1960]

G'day all....My good friend who drives a Chevrolet City Express cargo van that he contract delivers for Amazon in Baltimore MD...loves the CVT in it..
He's done over 10,000 miles already in about 6 months since he got the contract , stop /starts constantly with it and he tells me he's impressed by how smooth it is..It's the 2 litre one and it does I 95 easily on his routes.. He was skeptical of the CVT transmission but now he loves it...Here's the spec's on his 2016 model incase anyone is interested http://media.chevrolet.com/media/us/...2016.tab1.html ...Cheers Rod...

[maison_69r]

My wife has a 2015 Lancer with the cvt. There biggest down fall is off the mark take off and bumper to bumper traffic. Other than that I don't mind it. Loves the freeway just hums along even for a 2.0 litre lol

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