No More Commodore or Astra - Page 3

EBSXR6 · 10-12-2019, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

I'm wondering if Camry sales will increase once Commodore departs,
the new Camry looks great and maybe more people will give it a go...

Fleet Sales yes. Retail sales of Sedans, Wagons, Hatches are dying. Most retail sales are SUV or Light Trucks. (IMO Ranger, Hi Lux etc are not Utes they have absolutley no realatioship to the Lew Bandt Design.)

arronm · 10-12-2019, 11:24 PM

Yep , has holden and commodore badge. I believe the proper-gander...

JasonACT · 10-12-2019, 11:25 PM

To be fair, he said "park it.." so it's not a car, it's the final piece of "art" in the series.

I don't understand art.

Vormund · 11-12-2019, 07:54 AM

Well resale values are already in the toilet...lets see how low we can go.

If it's cheap enough, they would be an ok buy for something to get around in.

**FairmontGS** · 11-12-2019, 08:08 AM

Can I still get a Vauxhall Insignia though?

hackney · 11-12-2019, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

Can I still get a Vauxhall Insignia though?

As long as you import it.

Vormund · 11-12-2019, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

Can I still get a Vauxhall Insignia though?

PSA might bring them in, you never know. They are after all, UK which is RHD

71cop · 11-12-2019, 10:20 AM

Feel for the people selling Bowtie badges, sales will plummet now there's no more Commos to put them on.

Bossxr8 · 11-12-2019, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arronm

Probably $20 for some commodore badges.

Holden spent a lot of time and money lobbying for the ZB to have a V6, cause no one else was interested in anything other than the 4 cylinder.

I wonder how much money Holden/GM have just ****ed away on engineering the Insignia to fit that V6 now.

No doubt Holden have probably copped a black eye from HQ for this now too, cause they were against it having a V6 too, they only wanted it to be available as a 4 cylinder, just like it is everywhere else it sells. Only Holden got the V6.

Holden execs probably made a business case of selling X amount of ZB's to justify the investment needed to engineer it for V6. Which has now massively blown up in their face.

There will be serious future product repercussions from this.

Dr Smith · 11-12-2019, 11:50 AM

The problem for Holden will be what future GM products will be developed in RHD. The Colarado because it's built in Thailand and there is enough sales although it will not get an all-new design like Ranger in the next year so it's going to open up a generational difference that can only be saved by selling on price.

I don't know how the Acadia is justified being built in RHD and will try to find out what it's international RHD market is.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Corvette RHD version is also cancelled...which then begs the question, what RHD SUV's are available to Holden from factory?

I also predict the next all-new Edge/Endura will end RHD versions.

The Australian government really has to come to the party and eliminate the costs of compliancing a car for our market. If a vehcile is sold in the UK or Japan and meets their safety standards it should be OK for here.

Vormund · 11-12-2019, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Holden spent a lot of time and money lobbying for the ZB to have a V6, cause no one else was interested in anything other than the 4 cylinder.

I wonder how much money Holden/GM have just ****ed away on engineering the Insignia to fit that V6 now.

No doubt Holden have probably copped a black eye from HQ for this now too, cause they were against it having a V6 too, they only wanted it to be available as a 4 cylinder, just like it is everywhere else it sells. Only Holden got the V6.

Holden execs probably made a business case of selling X amount of ZB's to justify the investment needed to engineer it for V6. Which has now massively blown up in their face.

There will be serious future product repercussions from this.

Actually, Buick got the V6 as well in their GS AWD model (equivalent to VXR)

Vesper Martini · 11-12-2019, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vormund

PSA might bring them in, you never know. They are after all, UK which is RHD

Not sure why PSA bought Opel? GM didn't want it.

They do have some SUVs and Vans in their lineup But I anticipate they will drop Insignia and maybe even Astra too.

depends how many Astras are selling in the UK now, where it used to be hugely popular

hackney · 11-12-2019, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

Not sure why PSA bought Opel? GM didn't want it.

They do have some SUVs and Vans in their lineup But I anticipate they will drop Insignia and maybe even Astra too.

depends how many Astras are selling in the UK now, where it used to be hugely popular

Opel/Vauxhall Astra sold around 31,000 units last year(13th in sales) Corsa was #3.

Dr Terry · 11-12-2019, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Holden spent a lot of time and money lobbying for the ZB to have a V6, cause no one else was interested in anything other than the 4 cylinder.

I wonder how much money Holden/GM have just ****ed away on engineering the Insignia to fit that V6 now.

No doubt Holden have probably copped a black eye from HQ for this now too, cause they were against it having a V6 too, they only wanted it to be available as a 4 cylinder, just like it is everywhere else it sells. Only Holden got the V6.

Holden execs probably made a business case of selling X amount of ZB's to justify the investment needed to engineer it for V6. Which has now massively blown up in their face.

There will be serious future product repercussions from this.

I don't think that's correct. I pretty sure that Buick & Opel both got the V6 version, I'm not sure about Vauxhall.

Also the previous Insignia, which was a slightly smaller car had a V6 with a turbo. The two Vectras (the Insignia's predecessor) before that, also had a V6 option.

Dr Terry

hackney · 11-12-2019, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

I don't think that's correct. I pretty sure that Buick & Opel both got the V6 version, I'm not sure about Vauxhall.

Also the previous Insignia, which was a slightly smaller car had a V6 with a turbo. The two Vectras (the Insignia's predecessor) before that, also had a V6 option.

Dr Terry

Insignia in the UK only come with a 2.0 litre petrol,or Turbo diesels.

GCRXR6 · 11-12-2019, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EBSXR6

I think GM will just pull the pin as they did in Europe by the end of 2020.

Will it take that long?

Crazy Dazz · 11-12-2019, 04:59 PM

In regards to the Astra, you can only **** something in the **** so many times before it dies.
Mmm, lets sell rebadged Vauxhalls,
nah, lets sell rebadged Izuzus,
nah, Nissans,
Toyotas,
Opels,
Daewoos,
back to Opels again,
more Daewoos, and
back to Opels, again.

I am surprised anybody knows what they sell, much less buys any.

And not withstanding that they made a complete pig's ear of the whole thing, this isn't some grand strategic decision.
The Astra has, for some time, been a GM product, made by Opel. The licence has expired and Opel are nolonger making them.

Overall, they are simply acknowledging that they have screwed up the Australian market, because basically they don't give a rats ****, and the simplest solution is to give up and revert to flogging whatever horrible crap Americans buy.

And lets be honest.
Contrary to what is often claimed, there is no great paradigm shift.
I have always maintained that the most versatile family car was a mid to large station wagon, preferably an aussie version with decent ground clearance.
But those crafty millennials don't want station wagons.
No instead they will buy a 2wd urban SUV that is mechanically identical to the FWD sedan/hatch on whose platform its built. (And pay more money for the privilege.)
One 7 seater model we looked at was previously sold as a "People Mover". They gave it a facelift and its now a 7-seat "SUV".
It's above shape more than anything, and those have always been in a constant state of evolution.

And if you look at the Commode and the Astra, its not that those markets nolonger exist. But the market is now much more diverse, there is a lot more competition, and they are conceding the parts of the market they can nolonger dominate.
There are still plenty of mid & large sedans out there, but But why buy a Ford or Chevy, when you can have a BMW or Merc.
Similarly there are plenty of small hatches, but the Japs, Thais, Korean,s and Chinese all make them cheaper.

hackney · 11-12-2019, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

In regards to the Astra, you can only **** something in the **** so many times before it dies.
Mmm, lets sell rebadged Vauxhalls,
nah, lets sell rebadged Izuzus,
nah, Nissans,
Toyotas,
Opels,
Daewoos,
back to Opels again,
more Daewoos, and
back to Opels, again.

I am surprised anybody knows what they sell, much less buys any.

And not withstanding that they made a complete pig's ear of the whole thing, this isn't some grand strategic decision.
The Astra has, for some time, been a GM product, made by Opel. The licence has expired and Opel are nolonger making them.

Overall, they are simply acknowledging that they have screwed up the Australian market, because basically they don't give a rats ****, and the simplest solution is to give up and revert to flogging whatever horrible crap Americans buy.

And lets be honest.
Contrary to what is often claimed, there is no great paradigm shift.
I have always maintained that the most versatile family car was a mid to large station wagon, preferably an aussie version with decent ground clearance.
But those crafty millennials don't want station wagons.
No instead they will buy a 2wd urban SUV that is mechanically identical to the FWD sedan/hatch on whose platform its built. (And pay more money for the privilege.)
One 7 seater model we looked at was previously sold as a "People Mover". They gave it a facelift and its now a 7-seat "SUV".
It's above shape more than anything, and those have always been in a constant state of evolution.

The Vauxhall/Opel Astra is made @ the Elsmore plant in Cheshire & in Poland.(and has been for awhile.)

Crazy Dazz · 11-12-2019, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hackney

The Vauxhall/Opel Astra is made @ the Elsmore plant in Cheshire & in Poland.(and has been for awhile.)

Yes it WAS.
From 2020 production of the GM based Astra ceases.
I imagine Opel will move to a PSA based Astra.

Dr Smith · 11-12-2019, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

Not sure why PSA bought Opel? GM didn't want it.

I think PSA got Opel back into profit the next year which might say more about GM ownership...

https://www.autonews.com/blogs/opel-...osses-under-gm

**DFB FGXR6** · 11-12-2019, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

In regards to the Astra, you can only **** something in the **** so many times before it dies.
Mmm, lets sell rebadged Vauxhalls,
nah, lets sell rebadged Izuzus,
nah, Nissans,
Toyotas,
Opels,
Daewoos,
back to Opels again,
more Daewoos, and
back to Opels, again.

I am surprised anybody knows what they sell, much less buys any.

And this is one of the reasons why Toyota leads the market. While Holden put most of its effort into one model line and chopped and changed the names and sourcing of it others, Toyota just kept plugging away, maintaining a consistent and constant market presence that lead them to the top.

**DFB FGXR6** · 11-12-2019, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

I don't know how the Acadia is justified being built in RHD and will try to find out what it's international RHD market is.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Corvette RHD version is also cancelled...which then begs the question, what RHD SUV's are available to Holden from factory?

From memory, didn't Holden have to fund RHD Arcadia and Equinox themselves?

**Cav** · 11-12-2019, 06:07 PM

So what exactly went wrong with the Commodore?

Modern European styling.

Latest car gadgets.

Doing well in Supercars ( joke boys).

Should Holden have dropped the price?

Was the change of ownership of manufacturer the final knife in its back?

To me it seemed like it was a competitor to the Mondeo in its turbo petrol model. I think the prices were lineball.

**Cav** · 11-12-2019, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

And this is one of the reasons why Toyota leads the market. While Holden put most of its effort into one model line and chopped and changed the names and sourcing of it others, Toyota just kept plugging away, maintaining a consistent and constant market presence that lead them to the top.

You could be right but I can't help myself, this popped into my brain.

Remember the Toyota Lexcen?

Franco Cozzo · 11-12-2019, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cav

So what exactly went wrong with the Commodore?

Modern European styling.

Latest car gadgets.

Doing well in Supercars ( joke boys).

Should Holden have dropped the price?

Was the change of ownership of manufacturer the final knife in its back?

To me it seemed like it was a competitor to the Mondeo in its turbo petrol model. I think the prices were lineball.

image

image

Mondildo looks tougher, especially in wagon form.

CyberWasp · 11-12-2019, 08:30 PM

So if you take away Astra & Commodore sales from Holden's sales totals next year....where does that put them on the sales ladder?

arronm · 11-12-2019, 08:50 PM

who cares.....

Eurotrash · 11-12-2019, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

So if you take away Astra & Commodore sales from Holden's sales totals next year....where does that put them on the sales ladder?

At the current rate, they'll be down roughly 10,000 units - 6,000 Commodores and 4,000 Astra, give or take, which would put them around 12th or 13th on the list and would be fighting to stay above Subaru and Mercedes-Benz, with total sales around 40,000 units.

Eurotrash · 11-12-2019, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

I think PSA got Opel back into profit the next year which might say more about GM ownership...

https://www.autonews.com/blogs/opel-...osses-under-gm

Absolutely correct. It took PSA 12 months to get Opel back into the black, compared to GM which owned it for 80 plus years and couldn't turn a profit for the last two decades!

**DFB FGXR6** · 11-12-2019, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eurotrash

Absolutely correct. It took PSA 12 months to get Opel back into the black, compared to GM which owned it for 80 plus years and couldn't turn a profit for the last two decades!

And that says it all really about GM's management ability, especially outside their home market.