VFACTS - November 2024

[vixf6]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

So once owners give real world feedback online of how bad they are we should see orders cancelled and numbers drop.
Lets see hey.

I like the new Prado for its interior, tech, screens, likely (possible) great build quality, looks, and massive dealer support network. What may shock new Prado owner though is this new 48v battery replacement costs. Also this system gives like 0.3 of 1 litre less fuel use, what’s the point of it? Also seems the engine and 48v system cannot individually/separately propel the vehicle so dead battery means dead car apparently or am i missing something here

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

What does everyone think about the new Prado being heavier (150kg, or 250kg??), with the same diesel as before...

A good mate with one reckons the 150 series is marginal for grunt, we took about 4 attempts to do one big dune north of Perth. He's holding back until it gets more power. Also I think the boot's been controversial with all the 48V mild hybrid gear under there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBfKto1yrX0

no relation to this business, you can see the raised cargo area. I think also fuel tank @ 120L and the joy of adblue 17L are mentioned as drawbacks.

All that jelly said, tbh I'd have one with the petrol/hybrid and in 5 seats, they will sell and sell.

What year model is his Prado. They did a power and torque upgrade which made a massive difference. It went from being absolutely woeful, to almost acceptable

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by vixf6

I like the new Prado for its interior, tech, screens, likely (possible) great build quality, looks, and massive dealer support network. What may shock new Prado owner though is this new 48v battery replacement costs. Also this system gives like 0.3 of 1 litre less fuel use, what’s the point of it? Also seems the engine and 48v system cannot individually/separately propel the vehicle so dead battery means dead car apparently or am i missing something here

48 volt is the new industry voltage standard, it permits the use of lighter wiring.
As for the passive hybrid thing, it’s probably one step up from stop/start technology
and probably won’t bother owners either way…

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by vixf6

I like the new Prado for its interior, tech, screens, likely (possible) great build quality, looks, and massive dealer support network. What may shock new Prado owner though is this new 48v battery replacement costs. Also this system gives like 0.3 of 1 litre less fuel use, what’s the point of it? Also seems the engine and 48v system cannot individually/separately propel the vehicle so dead battery means dead car apparently or am i missing something here

My understanding is it doesnt propel the vehicle at all as you consider a normal hybrid does, its simply there to run accessories when the vehicle is stationary and the engine idle cuts for fuel saving and assists with throttle response, almost like an electric belt driven supercharger.
It then assists start up rather than the starter motor on a traditional start/stop setup.
It recharges via kinetic energy.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Yeah, Im not so sure about that jpd.
Everest peaked at 2900 units delivered a few months ago after steady growth, then it saw a decline.
As the reporting is of delivered units it could be that numbers are still in decline, but they've held off deliveries to give an artificial boost inline with Prado release, especially considering November and December are traditionally slow months.

You really need a minimum 6 months to get a proper read of the effect on competitors after the release of an anticipated model

While I agree with your watch and see statement, I take a differnt view of Everest deliveries.

In the first quarter of of 2024, Everest sales

January…………..1,176
February………….1,059
March……………..2,264
April………………..2,400
May………..……….2,110
June………………..2,267
July………………….2,162
August…………….2,273
September………2,902
October……………2,668
November……….2,737

Indeed, monthly deliveries seemed to spike after previous model Prado sales dried up
roughly 2,100 to 2,200 up to August with one 2,400 month where ship timings were
favourable and again, 2,900 in September before settling back to 2,688 in October and 2,737 last month.


I’m definitely more confident about this and believe that Prado vs Everest is not a zero sum game,
that both can do well without necessarily interfering with each others sales but we shall see……

[Trendseeker]

I’ll put this article here as it is a side topic on new cars and older ones.

https://www.drive.com.au/caradvice/h...medium=partner

How our Commodore and Falcon addiction is costing us

We all love an Aussie-made Holden Commodore or Ford Falcon, but a new report has revealed they're responsible for something that has policymakers worried.

The Ford Falcon and Holden Commodore hold a special place in Australian hearts.

Now that Australia is no longer manufacturing new cars – with Holden the last to shut down its local production lines in 2017 – owners are reluctant to part with their beloved Falcons and Commodores, with cost-of-living pressures making them even less likely to opt for a replacement.

However, according to a new report from the National Transport Commission (NTC), older models like the Holden Commodore are part of the reason Australia’s carbon dioxide emissions intensity is significantly higher than that of Europe and the United States.

The comprehensive report studied the 17 million cars registered on our roads since 2003 and found that the average emissions intensity for light vehicles that entered the fleet since 2003 is 193.7g/km compared to an average of 165.2g/km for new cars sold in 2023.

The report has particularly called out Holden and Ford as two of the most popular vehicle makes because – of the top 15 best-selling brands – they had the two highest average emissions intensities across their model line-ups, Holden with 233.4g/km and Ford with 227.3g/km

For context, Suzuki had the lowest with 156.0g/km, while Toyota, with 3.58 million vehicles registered (accounting for 22 per cent of all registered vehicles in Australia), had an average emissions intensity of 202.2g/km.

"Seven years after local manufacturing ended, the Holden Commodore and Ford Falcon remain popular, and still in the top 10 of vehicle models on our roads,” the report states.

"These models, with a high average emissions intensity of around 260g/km [each], are emblematic of a broader trend: 77 per cent of all vehicles on our roads today with an emissions intensity above 250g/km first entered the fleet between 2003 and 2013.

"By contrast, 93 per cent of registered vehicles with an emissions intensity of up to 120g/km entered the fleet in the years since 2014."

Despite some manufacturers offering specific discounts on new cars by getting people to trade in their older vehicles, our love for the Aussie-made Holden Commodore and Ford Falcon endures.

“Our report confirms Australia’s enduring love for our Commodores and Falcons. Many years now after local manufacturing ended, these models remain among the top 10 on our roads," said NTC’s CEO and Commissioner Michael Hopkins.

“While they are amongst the 75 per cent of vehicles that have been on our roads for over a decade with an emissions intensity over 250g/km, they were also built here at a time when there were many more small, lower-emitting vehicles on our roads.”

Zach Nettleton, a 24-year-old mechanical engineer and owner of a 1996 Ford Falcon XH Ute, previously told Drive you can’t buy cars that handle like his anymore.

"You can't buy a ute that actually handles like a car these days. All new utes are just like two tonnes of steel that don't drive all that well,” he said.

"You don't stress taking a Falcon anywhere; it's an Australian car built for Australian conditions. As for the sedans, it's so rare to be able to buy a new sedan that can comfortably seat four blokes and tow a boat or another car like a Falcon can.”

But can that love affair last forever if Australia is lagging behind in cutting emissions? Some think not and say it underlines the importance of the upcoming New Vehicle Efficiency Standard (NVES) legislation.

“While Australia is making progress on cutting vehicle emissions intensity, we’re still behind many developed countries. Our emissions intensity from new passenger vehicles is slightly above those in the United States and Canada, and significantly higher than the average of European countries,” the NTC’s Hopkins said.

Meanwhile, the Electric Vehicle Council’s Head of Legal, Policy and Advocacy, Aman Gaur, said "Australia’s streets are home to some of the world’s dirtiest, most inefficient cars, emitting more pollution than vehicles in most developed countries and contaminating the air we breathe".

“It’s encouraging to see that the rise in Australians making the switch to electric vehicles, both battery and plug-in hybrid, is helping reduce air pollution, but we still lag behind many countries in EV adoption.

“There is still more work to be done to boost EV adoption in Australia – the NVES will help but continued support from governments and industry is essential including through purchase incentives, increased infrastructure and regulatory changes.

"Petrol and diesel cars are not only bad for the environment, they cost more to run compared with electric vehicles. The older the petrol or diesel car is, the more pollution they are likely to emit.”

According to Gaur, the federal and state governments need to reintroduce incentives on EVs to encourage more people to part with their older petrol or diesel vehicles.

"Most Australians buy their cars second-hand and the EV used car market is still maturing,” he told Drive.

“It's important that governments introduce incentives for used electric vehicles to help more Australians enjoy the benefits of owning an EV – lower running costs and less air pollution.”

While the fact older vehicles like the Holden Commodore are emitting more CO2 than newer cars may come as no surprise, Australia has moved away from smaller vehicles in recent years towards SUVs and light-commercial vehicles – which is also contributing to the problem.

"Australians are buying fewer small vehicles, shifting towards larger vehicles. A decade ago, small vehicles accounted for 24 per cent of all new car sales. In 2023, this had dropped to just 7 per cent of new sales," the NTC’s report noted.

"The growing share of SUVs on our roads has also contributed to a big increase in average vehicle footprint. For example, vehicles first registered in 2003 had an average footprint of 8.29m2, but this had increased to 8.78m2 in 2023."

“Vehicles in the small class have dropped from 24 per cent of all sales in 2013. By 2023 it was down to just 7 per cent,” said the NTC’s Commissioner Hopkins.

“The report highlights that our vehicles are getting bigger… Our research shows Australians have developed a preference for SUVs and there are now 6.48 million on our roads making up 59 per cent of all cars on our roads.

“Nearly all the vehicles (93 per cent) with an emissions intensity of less than, and up to, 120g/km entered the fleet in the years since 2014.

“From 2017 to 2021, Australia’s emissions intensity dropped by less than a per cent each year. Looking back, we actually performed better between 2002 and 2016 when emissions intensity fell by 28 per cent over the period.

”But there is good news: the emissions intensity for new vehicles sold in 2023 was down by 5 per cent compared to 2022, marking the largest percentage drop since our reporting began.”

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Trendseeker

I’ll put this article here as it is a side topic on new cars and older ones.



image

Long live DB1473,

I see a lot of conjecture about Australia being slow to adopt EVs, I'm somewhat suspicious of how well its going to be from an electrical infrastructure perspective, given you want to charge these from a 32A circuit on a typical single phase installation,

Which a main switch in a modern house is typically 40A, thats the calculation they work on when they design a new housing estate and put in the electrical infrastructure, that on average they allocate 40A per property.

When you've got multi car families, 32A circuits for charging EVs, its going to be a problem that will crop up sooner rather than later, and on an infrastructure 'in the street' perspective.

Was looking to upgrade to three phase power here and we've got to put in a new conduit from the pit, which is buried somewhere in an established garden bed, and run a new cable, and then upgrade the metering and switchboard, its not happening for less than $10,000.

Originally Posted by jpd80

48 volt is the new industry voltage standard, it permits the use of lighter wiring.
As for the passive hybrid thing, it’s probably one step up from stop/start technology
and probably won’t bother owners either way…

Are they lithium battery for this new 48V system?

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Trendseeker

I’ll put this article here as it is a side topic on new cars and older ones.



image

Bless their socks and what a fetching looking ute.

They are still on our roads in numbers because nothing has truly lived up to replacing them.

The only thing I can think of in the new car market with size, a petrol 6 cylinder engine (port injected, too), and comfort is the Grand Cherokee - and even then it's a big SUV wagon more like Territory's fundamentals, rather than a sedan or ute.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by Trendseeker

I’ll put this article here as it is a side topic on new cars and older ones.



image

They don't seem to mention that a lot of the Falcons and Commodores still registered are probably not a primary vehicle of the owner, and would do minimal kms. They'd be far more old Landcruisers doing bulk kms while putting out double the emissions of an FG or VF
Even nearly 10 years since the departure of the Aussie auto industry people still need to lay the boot in.
That dead horse is not even a stain on the grass any more.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by XR Martin

They don't seem to mention that a lot of the Falcons and Commodores still registered are probably not a primary vehicle of the owner, and would do minimal kms. They'd be far more old Landcruisers doing bulk kms while putting out double the emissions of an FG or VF
Even nearly 10 years since the departure of the Aussie auto industry people still need to lay the boot in.
That dead horse is not even a stain on the grass any more.

Yep.
Laughable in the face of the rise in popularity of 4wds. Specifically cheaper older shit boxes with straight pipe exhausts and turned up fuel systems driven by obnoxious attention seeking ****wits.

The dumb bint should stick to reporting on how big the touch screen is on the latest Chinese car.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Are they lithium battery for this new 48V system?

30 second search….

The 48-volt battery in the Land Cruiser and Toyota Hilux is a lithium-ion battery with a capacity of 4.3Ah and 13 cells:
Location: The battery is installed under the rear seats of the vehicle.
Weight: The battery weighs 7.6 kg.

Lithium Ion battery buried under the rear seat…..what could possibly go wrong with that.

At least PHEV Ranger will have its battery pack between the chassis rail under the rear tray
(Outside of passenger compartment)

[Syndrome]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

They are still on our roads in numbers because nothing has truly lived up to replacing them.

Exactly! The only option to replace mt Falcon is a BMW. However they are expensive to buy and maintain. And if something breaks then more $$$.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Bless their socks and what a fetching looking ute.

They are still on our roads in numbers because nothing has truly lived up to replacing them.

The only thing I can think of in the new car market with size, a petrol 6 cylinder engine (port injected, too), and comfort is the Grand Cherokee - and even then it's a big SUV wagon more like Territory's fundamentals, rather than a sedan or ute.

It’s also an example of the built in bias of the person concocting the article,
gotta keep blaming all the old Commodores and Falcons “polluting up the place”
Manufacturers on mass hopped onto heavy SUV and Utes, proclaiming them as
low pollution emitters vs those rotten old six and eight cylinder vehicles…

The whole thing is freaking laughable, the reason production ended was exactly because
of the very few being produced since the early 2000s, completely obliterating the authors point.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by jpd80

It’s also an example of the built in bias of the person concocting the article,
gotta keep blaming all the old Commodores and Falcons “polluting up the place”
Manufacturers on mass hopped onto heavy SUV and Utes, proclaiming them as
low pollution emitters vs those rotten old six and eight cylinder vehicles…

The whole thing is freaking laughable, the reason production ended was exactly because
of the very few being produced since the early 2000s, completely obliterating the authors point.

It’s click bait crap, this fool obviously had nothing better to write about.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by jpd80

It’s also an example of the built in bias of the person concocting the article,
gotta keep blaming all the old Commodores and Falcons “polluting up the place”
Manufacturers on mass hopped onto heavy SUV and Utes, proclaiming them as
low pollution emitters vs those rotten old six and eight cylinder vehicles…

The whole thing is freaking laughable, the reason production ended was exactly because
of the very few being produced since the early 2000s, completely obliterating the authors point.

Yep, we somehow went and bought thirstier, more agricultural, bigger vehicles once Falcon, Commodore went.

And in diesel, I don't know how you achieve that, but wow. For example, my old HJ60 would do 10.5 on the highway all day everyday, and 12.5 towing our 1600kg dual bunk in front + main bed 16ft single axle van.

Today's 200 series V8 diesel chews more than this - admittedly they are towing medium sized houses rather than a modest van - but I've heard 14.5 just running around, and 20+ towing, in diesel. Any owners, is this true? Does it match the 9's advertised on the highway?

Compare to a VF1 MY14 on the higway, the 6 cyls can do into the 6's and 7's per hundred. And chew E85 which is very renewable, hydrocarbons from liquid sunshine. They have big space too.

Anyway, if you want to eat all the resources and cook the planet, the way we've gone since Aussie production stopped is the way to go.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

Exactly! The only option to replace mt Falcon is a BMW. However they are expensive to buy and maintain. And if something breaks then more $$$.

Same. I can think of a Jag F-Pace or BMW X5 as a proper Territory replacement, perhaps the new Mazda inline 6's too - much more expensive and Euro servicing prices and complexity as they get older. The simple mechanicals that could happily drive across the country as a 15 year old car, will be missed.

Edit: we actually put one Australian car back on the road this year, nyah nyah nyahnyahnyah to that article lol

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Fordman1

It’s click bait crap, this fool obviously had nothing better to write about.

I actually feel sorry for his kind who will probably be replaced by AI in a few years
and then a reviewer could probably ask AI to make the story sound less sh*t

[anobserver]

[Sprintey]

It must be a centralised media campaign by the urban elites.

Here's the conversation to hit country people over the head with the emissions stick:

https://theconversation.com/cars-in-...growing-241017

Dude, metro people turning over cars faster produces way more CO2 as there are more people in metro areas, and the CO2 to create a new car is vastly more than a country person running an old one over the lifespan of the metro person's turnover.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

It must be a centralised media campaign by the urban elites.

Here's the conversation to hit country people over the head with the emissions stick:

https://theconversation.com/cars-in-...growing-241017

Dude, metro people turning over cars faster produces way more CO2 as there are more people in metro areas, and the CO2 to create a new car is vastly more than a country person running an old one over the lifespan of the metro person's turnover.

Who cares, this flog should report out on Chinese Emissions,