It's official - 6.0L Holden Commodores

[SSBUB]

ls1 not stock but edited = happy happy joy joy

[smoo]

Originally Posted by Thunder

Does this look like a 1.6l civic?


Thats MY car and was made in the great year of 1972. Back then BIG was BETTER. But now time has changed and so has technology.

And as for me being a "greenie", im sorry but i cant see myself wearing canvas clothes and driving a Kombie! :thebirds:

Haha fair enough. Nice. I'm a bit suspicious of that car n the background though...

Originally Posted by Bluehoon

Doubt it. Holden being holden will go to Toyota and buy another motor.
As they were lacking intellect to figure out VCT, OHC, for themselves

Yet LS1 and LS2 Commos still hand most cars their ***** on the track. Ya see, some engines actually have the balls to do without. Seriously, if you are so concerned about that crap, you shouldn't be driving a Ford, or any brand to do with muscle. Go drive a Honda. The mentality you show fits in with their beliefs.

Was at the local holden dealer today and none of the salesmen knew about this. Surely they would know if it was a month or two away?

[Bluehoon]

Originally Posted by smoo

Ya see, some engines actually have the balls to do without.

Ha? :

Originally Posted by smoo

Seriously, if you are so concerned about that crap, you shouldn't be driving a Ford, or any brand to do with muscle. Go drive a Honda. The mentality you show fits in with their beliefs.

Did i say i was concerned?

I was stating at where Holden derive their technology for the new dunnytech from. Toyota.

Holden are behind in their technology, have excessively large engine capacities (how American), and still use pushrods.

It's that simple. Was I bagging muscle, no.
I was stating some facts, that are my opinion.

[smoo]

What technology is from Toyota?

Is it wrong to have 'excessively' large engine capacities when fuel consumption is no more than the competition with less cc?

There is no point in argueing with a mindless sheep like yourself. Maybe you could point GM in the right direction. What model with OHCs can replace the current crop of pushrod engines? Make sure that when you do decide for them, that the Zo6 can still hand the advanced BMW M6 its ****, as the POS dohc Northstar V8 won't do the job.

If you are so into technology, you should have started crowing about it back in 1991 when BMW, Nissan and Honda started mass producing engines with vvt, or in the '50s when Jaguar and Mercedes used dohc in their models.

[SSBUB]

pushrods arent a bad thing
Plus i dont think they will be using them for much longer anyway

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Bluehoon

Doubt it. Holden being holden will go to Toyota and buy another motor.
As they were lacking intellect to figure out VCT, OHC, for themselves

The engine wasnt developed entirely in-house, in Aus. There was a lot of help and work done overseas.... to be fair.

[Sourbastard]

the first OHC engine was built in 1898 by the Wilkinson Motor Company, the first DOHC was in 1925. Modern technology indeed.

Pushrods or OHC, irrelevent. Displacement, cam profile, head design & flow, intake & exhaust flow. These are the things that are important. Arguing over the valve train is like arguing over which way to tie your shoes.

[MrSparkle]

Originally Posted by sourbastard

the first OHC engine was built in 1898 by the Wilkinson Motor Company, the first DOHC was in 1925. Modern technology indeed.

Pushrods or OHC, irrelevent. Displacement, cam profile, head design & flow, intake & exhaust flow. These are the things that are important. Arguing over the valve train is like arguing over which way to tie your shoes.

Precisely. And let's not forget the fact that both the LS1 and LS2 have broader powerbands than the Boss. It's all good and well if your heads breathe like a demon (especially so with forced induction) but if it only lasts for 2000rpm it's a bit silly really!

As for the whole notion of "6L is stupid" just be thankful for Holden in the first place - if it weren't for the introduction of the LS1 and the competition introduced by it, all you V8 owners would still be driving 200kW Windsors! For mine, it's great that Holden is doing SOMETHING to lift their performance from an engine perspective, which is something Ford is incapable (or unwilling) to do.

[RED_EL_XR8]

Yawn, yet another thread foiled by schoolboy would be engine designers.

This had all been done a billion times before!

[Gabbs]

At the end of the day most people wouldn't know the difference between a ford v8 and a holden v8. To them ones a 6litre v8 and ones a 5.4.

[Sledgehammer]

Ill run a 6L H car wth my F6 anytime, anyday and still be smiling

[anakha]

Finally a bit of intelligence in a couple of posts a little above mine. If some of the people posting in this thread had actually bothered to pursue the links provided earlier on and actually follow through they would have learnt that the new GM L76 features VVT and DoD. So it picks up torque in the low and midrange, still has great power up top not to mention a good powerband and uses up to 7% less fuel than the outgoing Gen3. Now lets not forget it is considerably lighter than the Boss and smaller as well.

Oh but the Boss has DOHC you say? More than a touch of hubris there when that line keeps getting trotted out.

[Thunder]

Well if you cant beat 'em, join 'em! Ford should drop the 460cube jet engine. Then it's 7 litres vs 6!

Lest face it guys, 1972 aint here any more. Ford will never make V8's with more power than Holden in factory sedans. Fords too conservative (U.S trend). Remember marketing sells cars, not history or performance, thats why they spend millions on marketing.

As for F6, i think Ford are under-utelising the potential there. That thing can do more. Wouldnt it be great to have a 6 that kills all HSV 8's? Typhoon's getting close!

Oh and smoo, that car in the backgrounds my sisters car.......well, women, what do you expect! :

[galaxy xr8]

Originally Posted by Psycho Chicken

Seriously, who buys an SS or an XR8 for fuel economy?

ME, well sort off, my XR8 is great with fuel and I don't live in the city so I don't have stop start traffic and I get 8lts/100klm.

[xevanman]

if anyone is gonna spend that money on a car whats an extra 2k on a straight gas conversion... dont go duel fuel its .

but BP LPG is a higher octane than ultimate.. and i think it burns at a higher temperature.. so for all you optimax fans maybe straight gas is the way to go!

currently 52.9c or 50.0 if you have bp autogasp.

Yeah.. i work for BP.

[T3ts50]

[QUOTE=Thunder]
Lest face it guys, 1972 aint here any more. Ford will never make V8's with more power than Holden in factory sedans. Fords too conservative (U.S trend). Remember marketing sells cars, not history or performance, thats why they spend millions on marketing.


Is that why Ford in the US is kicking **** with sales with the Retro inspired mustang and Ford GT.

[SSBUB]

Originally Posted by xevanman

if anyone is gonna spend that money on a car whats an extra 2k on a straight gas conversion... dont go duel fuel its .

but BP LPG is a higher octane than ultimate.. and i think it burns at a higher temperature.. so for all you optimax fans maybe straight gas is the way to go!

currently 52.9c or 50.0 if you have bp autogasp.

Yeah.. i work for BP.

Our work vehicle is a BA on dedicated gas and its a slug! Bah to gas, if you want economy, you shouldnt be looking at 8's in the first place

[tbearz]

[QUOTE=T3ts50]

Originally Posted by Thunder

Lest face it guys, 1972 aint here any more. Ford will never make V8's with more power than Holden in factory sedans. Fords too conservative (U.S trend). Remember marketing sells cars, not history or performance, thats why they spend millions on marketing.


Is that why Ford in the US is kicking **** with sales with the Retro inspired mustang and Ford GT.

with petrol prices of 80c/l they can afford it but the big suv's are loosing sales. Plus the home grown american car companies are and have been going home with their tails between their legs, as the Japanese manufactureres are dominating them in the times of high oil prices

[SSBUB]

Sound like the 6l concept does give you the $h*ts...but why? Your only argument here is because the engine is a Chev?!

[slipper]

Originally Posted by Rollin

holden gets such credit for their "aussie cars" and their "awesome" engines, when THEY DONT BL00DY DESIGN THEM!!

What is your point?

Please describe how Ford AU designed the entire Boss engine? Yes, they design and manufacture a couple of manifolds and they do assemble the engine locally. But that is a long way from designing an entire engine as Holden had done with the locally designed 308.

Speaking of the 308, cast your meagre memory back to when Ford was just "unpacking and installing" the 302 into Falcons whilst Holden was making the 308/304 locally. Were Ford the bad guys then?

[Sourbastard]

Originally Posted by Rollin

i just thought of another reason why this whole 6L thing gives a lot of us the $.

ford design and build their own engines, what they sell on the showroom floor has been made by australians using aussie brains (im willing to accept that not every engine designer down there is australian, so dont drill me on that point)

Where the hell did you get that from.

The 5.4 Boss is from the US and powers their truck/SUV segments.
The Windsor engine design is from the US.
The Cleveland engine design is from the US.
The original ford straight sixes werent even originally designed here, but have had a long development process after they were abandoned in the US here in australia.

We may make a few alterations in head and manifold design "on occasion", but thats about it.

If you look at any falcon/commodore, you WILL see design and parts elements throughout the car that are US in origin. Ford Aus is owned by the US parent, and so is Holden, they would be idiotic NOT to seek parts from their US owners as it saves on design costs, it saves on research and development costs.

[Citric GT]

Why is everyone putting sh#t on an engine that is more powerfull, torquier, smaller in dimension, lighter and more efficient than the Boss. Is it a touch of jealousy?

[Sourbastard]

Originally Posted by Citric XR6

Why is everyone putting sh#t on an engine that is more powerfull, torquier, smaller in dimension, lighter and more efficient than the Boss. Is it a touch of jealousy?

I cant think of a better reason can you? LOL

[RED_EL_XR8]

When the new Falcon sales brochure gives me an option of 5.4L quad cam or 6L push-rod it may be worth taking a second or two of consideration.

Until that day its domain of magazine dreamers, Lamborghini's may have better seat, and Bugatti's a superior set of cup-holders covers too, but none of these fit and are equally irrelevant.

[AnthonyQLD]

Originally Posted by CDAA

They don't have the trans so their adding more cubes. The more things change, the more they stay the same..

Would still rather a quad cam high tech 5.4 with a 6 speed auto behind it! The BOSS 260 has always produced impressive power well up on the Holden version of the LS1's in stock form anyway. It's how the Ford gets it to the ground that been the problem. The BF 6 speed auto will change all that IMO. Good move for Holden none the less.

I thought that holden were going to get a 6 speed auto for there next model. The same one as ford have for the BF.

[XplosiveR6]

Originally Posted by sourbastard

Where the hell did you get that from.

The 5.4 Boss is from the US and powers their truck/SUV segments.

where did you get that from? the 5.4Boss is unique to australia, it consists of a 5.4 block out of the US triton motor, and the mustang cobras heads. the 5.4 tritons in the US are only single cam, 3 valve motors, the same as our 220kw 5.4 not our BOSS motors

Originally Posted by citric XR6

Why is everyone putting sh#t on an engine that is more powerfull, torquier, smaller in dimension, lighter and more efficient than the Boss. Is it a touch of jealousy?

you have come to that conclusion how? From a motor that hasnt even been released yet?

[WASP]

Originally Posted by AnthonyQLD

I thought that holden were going to get a 6 speed auto for there next model. The same one as ford have for the BF.

Hi Anthony,
From my inderstanding, Holden insiders are said to be very keen on using the ZF trans and have already had discussions with the company. However there is much pressure on Holden to use the existing 6 speed auto unit that exists with-in the GM Family, yet offers nothing on the ZF auto apparently. It's all going to come down to money in the end so we will see what happens.

[Citric GT]

Originally Posted by EF_Dave

you have come to that conclusion how? From a motor that hasnt even been released yet?

Whats going on here is nothing more than blatant brand bashing. Just because an engine doesn't use a truckload of valves and camshafts it doesn't mean that its no good. At the end of the day, the pushrod V8 in the Holden is simple and effective and fulfills the design brief. I bet if it had a Ford badge slapped on it you'd love it.

[XplosiveR6]

Originally Posted by Citric XR6

Whats going on here is nothing more than blatant brand bashing. Just because an engine doesn't use a truckload of valves and camshafts it doesn't mean that its no good. At the end of the day, the pushrod V8 in the Holden is simple and effective and fulfills the design brief. I bet if it had a Ford badge slapped on it you'd love it.

have you even read the thread? the engine that we are talking about may in fact be a OHC engine with "a truckload of valves" please read the whole thread before you jump down peoples throats

[Citric GT]

Originally Posted by EF_Dave

have you even read the thread? the engine that we are talking about may in fact be a OHC engine with "a truckload of valves" please read the whole thread before you jump down peoples throats

Yes, I have read the whole thread. And no, I haven't jumped down anyones throat. It just seems that no matter what another manufactuer does it has to be bad.