All things Solar (merged threads)

[Stagg]

Only just logged back onto AFF after a few months, interesting to see what people have said about solar.

Since the STC incentive has reduced and in Victoria the FiT is at capacity and will reduce literally any day now, there have been a few job cuts and looks like I'm next.

Oh well, guess that's what comes with the industry, second layoff in the same year..

Had a graph sent through to me mid July, stating who the top 10 largest PV installers were. Who I work for is in there (best not to say who because of obvious work dilemmas), but the second largest installer was Urban Group Energy, with about 5500kW installed. However, everyone was blown out of the water by True Value Solar, with a total 15,000kW total installed this fiscal year.

Interestingly enough, TVS has a clause in their contract that invalidates any warranty if the system is not serviced every two years, which is at a cost of a few hundred; which is a service which is not required and means ongoing costs for the system. It was a little disheartening that I see everyone here on AFF actually buying decent running gear like Conergy, SMA, and REC, only to find out that the majority of solar installations are based purely on the cheapest price, and there are thousands of systems out there now with invalid warranties.


What I can see happening now for the industry is bad. People are going to have issues with their systems that no longer carry a valid warranty, and there is going to be a big uproar about how crappy solar is because it doesn't last as long as what everyone states it would. This means that for the majority of companies will cop the brunt and lose out on business because of the larger and the cheaper guys, and people like me will be put out of work again :(


I may be relocating to gold coast in a little over a months time as well, because in northern NSW people are still buying solar with little or no FiT available, and still see the benefit in solar; which sounds like the right place for me.


It would also interest a lot of people to know that in the passt few months a number of German PV manufacturers have gone offshore to China or gone into administration, because they cannot compete with China. Notable manufacturers are Schott, which has now gone into administration and no longer available, and Bosch could not sustain it's German manufacturing plan and now Bosch is manufactured in China. I have been told anywhere from 30% to 40% of German manufacturers have disappeared off the radar now because they were too expensive.

[Stagg]

I have also taken another unorthodox approach to my passion outside of my work, try to take the time to look at this and acknowledge that there really is more to installing solar than the financial side. Remember, the australian government is not subsidising our systems for financial benefit, in fact they are spending it and you are seeing the benefit. The underlying reason that there are incentives is because all motives are environmental!

http://quitcoal.org/

[poppa smurf]

yep a lot of sense in your statements but in the end we can only buy what we can afford or what we see as a "way in" to solar without crippling our back pockets

shame about your job again but I guess thats the industry.......good luck with the shift

I will have a read

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Stagg

Interestingly enough, TVS has a clause in their contract that invalidates any warranty if the system is not serviced every two years, which is at a cost of a few hundred; which is a service which is not required and means ongoing costs for the system. It was a little disheartening that I see everyone here on AFF actually buying decent running gear like Conergy, SMA, and REC, only to find out that the majority of solar installations are based purely on the cheapest price, and there are thousands of systems out there now with invalid warranties.

yeah, i came across that little gem in the terms and conditions but its a relatively small cost. as long as you are aware of it, keeping warranty intact isn't a concern.

[sgt_doofey]

As an interesting side point, it might be worthwhile talking to the office of consumer and business affairs in your state and see who they get the most complaints about in regards to solar retailers.
I was talking to a guy who works here in Adelaide and they get a fair few complaints, mainly from the same installers. Can't really remember who he said though...

[davenl5l]

hey stagg sorry about your job thats a bummer at anytime but poppa is right im on a pension and it took forever to afford solar so i went with what i hope is the best,biggest system i could afford to eliminate my growing bill the enviromental benefit is a welcome bonus what the government should be doing is making it compusary that all new homes have a solar system & solar hot water this would have the added benefit of reducing system costs

[XD 351 Ute]

Ergon came and fitted my new meter yesterday, now I just have to figure out how to read it.
My system cracked 20kw today for the first time (is 4.3 system), and has started producing power for 12 hours of the day.
It will be interesting to see how many hours it does in Summer.

Ed

[poppa smurf]

ah! now you can start to see the benefits in a tangible form......summer will see a better angle of attack toward the panels with a rise in production

keep us informed........

the word on the street here is that solar on public housing is being considered being repaid by the electricity offset paid to low income earners

it will be seen whether the ferals will see the solar as an electricity offset windfall or decide to sell them off panel by panel to pay for a bit of fun to get rid of their day

a good idea but fraught with perils

[supershifty]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

well I received the new rates from Lumo......some good news some bad

works out I will be paying roughly $0.32c compared to $0.23c last month

supply charge has gone from $0.51c per day to $0.72

(not a bad rise thanks Julia!!)

the only good thing to come from it is that my Feed in tariff has gone from $0.51c per kilowatt (or thereabouts) to $0.59

I'm with AGL for power, Origin for natural gas. Had a doorknocker about 5 weeks ago with a deal that if I xferred my gas to AGL, I would receive a 5% discount off both bills (2 year contract) - I jumped at it. Get a letter from AGL about 3 weeks ago notifying me that there was a price rise imminent and I would be informed shortly. Well I got the letter about the price rise:

Gas supply per day - 72.446c to 78.76c (+9%)
Gas tariff - can't compute that as they have shifted the thresholds, but believe me, it's gone up!
Electricity supply per day - 28.776c to 29.612c (+3%)
Electricity tariff (11) - 22.759c/kWh to 26.093c/kWh (+14%)

Methinks I got screwed! - anyone else got the same feeling? or is this just a general trend around the country?

Yes, thankfully I've gone solar - sorry to Poppa for a little thread hijacking, didn't know a better place to put my rant!

Cheers!

[xisled]

Originally Posted by supershifty

I'm with AGL for power, Origin for natural gas. Had a doorknocker about 5 weeks ago with a deal that if I xferred my gas to AGL, I would receive a 5% discount off both bills (2 year contract) - I jumped at it. Get a letter from AGL about 3 weeks ago notifying me that there was a price rise imminent and I would be informed shortly. Well I got the letter about the price rise: Gas supply per day - 72.446c to 78.76c (+9%)
Gas tariff - can't compute that as they have shifted the thresholds, but believe me, it's gone up!
Electricity supply per day - 28.776c to 29.612c (+3%)
Electricity tariff (11) - 22.759c/kWh to 26.093c/kWh (+14%)

Methinks I got screwed! - anyone else got the same feeling? or is this just a general trend around the country?

Yes, thankfully I've gone solar - sorry to Poppa for a little thread hijacking, didn't know a better place to put my rant!

Cheers!

I work for a retailer that services VIC, QLD and NSW.

The price rise this year across all states was massive. This is due to 2 things carbon tax and general price increase on 1st July that happens every year.

I have found NSW had the highest price increase.

But people are feeling it hard with bills increasing all over the place.

But something interesting is that Tru Energy has now be brought out by Energy Australia.

Energy Australia are doing a big TV campaign at the moment to get this message across. not sure if Vic is the only state this is shown.

[supershifty]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

well I received the new rates from Lumo......some good news some bad

works out I will be paying roughly $0.32c compared to $0.23c last month

supply charge has gone from $0.51c per day to $0.72

(not a bad rise thanks Julia!!)

the only good thing to come from it is that my Feed in tariff has gone from $0.51c per kilowatt (or thereabouts) to $0.59

Poppa, I just re-read your post. 72 cents per day for a supply charge!!! Are you rural, or is that the standard for SA? Either way that's just plain wrong! The price jack from 23c/kWh to 32c/kWh is out of order too!

Cheers mate!

Edit: very pleased to hear about the increase in your feed in tariff though. The suppliers in QLD haven't cottoned on to this one yet - maybe I'll find it on my next bill? lol!

[sgt_doofey]

It's not just you getting screwed supershifty, it's everyone that has electricity supplied by the grid.
I've had my first bill since 01 July and prices have increased a fair bit, and I'm with Origin.

[poppa smurf]

yeah supershifty.....not real amused by the tariff increases and the increase to supply charge

not amused at all but I cant get a better deal.......dont worry about the thread hi-jack, I like a yak as much as the next bloke.....content dont matter a hell of lot

i've been going down by about $2.00 per day average here now for a while.....that and the increases may see me eat into my credit a fair bit

roll on summer so I can start regenerating some credit for next years increase

[xisled]

Originally Posted by supershifty

Poppa, I just re-read your post. 72 cents per day for a supply charge!!! Are you rural, or is that the standard for SA? Either way that's just plain wrong! The price jack from 23c/kWh to 32c/kWh is out of order too!

Cheers mate!

Edit: very pleased to hear about the increase in your feed in tariff though. The suppliers in QLD haven't cottoned on to this one yet - maybe I'll find it on my next bill? lol!

Here in Vic you are looking around about 80 to 90 cents a day for the supply charge.

[supershifty]

^^^ xisled. I'll stop my whining about power bills. What you guys are paying down south is utter BS!

[genebaby]

Just got the latest power bill which has kept us over $500 in credit so all is going well. It's about $50 short of paying off the current Water and Gas bills for this quarter.

Things should be better next year, on this front, as the wife is at home with our almost 5 month old baby, which won't be happening next winter, though I'd rather pay those costs than childcare!

[poppa smurf]

awaiting our account to see how far we are in front......it's been read so shouldn't be too much longer

[ute83]

We received a bill the other day. Whoever read the meter must have been on drugs as the numbers are not what i see on the meter. Company says that i am in front by heaps more than i actually am. Strange.

[Stagg]

Originally Posted by ute83

We received a bill the other day. Whoever read the meter must have been on drugs as the numbers are not what i see on the meter. Company says that i am in front by heaps more than i actually am. Strange.

That's not a strange occurrence, that's poor communication between the retailer and the distributor, happens all the time. I rent a property and had a smart meter installed, decided to take notes and pictures of the meter readings and mark the date, to find out my power bill was 30% larger than my actual usage!

[comagutsa]

well i got my 1st bill the other day
what a big let down
no i must say this was my 1st bill and i had the solar put on a few weeks into the billing cycle
and there was about $280 odd added on for admin fees and new meter
now i was also home on sick leave at this time about 5 weeks from my back surgery
Synergy in WA really need to help us people who put solar on our roofs because the current set up is crap if you are not on the 47c or 27c feed that the state gov were doing a few years ago.
synergy have up'ed their feed in from 7c to 8.4c YAY me then they sell my clean energy back to me at 23c
i exported over 200kwh and made a whole $22 , even bigger YAY
we have changed our usuage to try and use most of our electricity to durning the day while we are making it because its not worth exporting it and i worked out we save about $50 doing this
so for a whole bill cycle 2 months i think i saved $70 and if thats the average i will save a whole $420 a year (the system cost me all up with sysnergy fees etc $6700)
its going to take me nearly 15 years to pay it off
what a waist of time ...
now i admit things will change over time but the WA gov has to a 1 to 1 sytem as its its the only fair way

[Benny D]

Originally Posted by comagutsa

well i got my 1st bill the other day
what a big let down
no i must say this was my 1st bill and i had the solar put on a few weeks into the billing cycle
and there was about $280 odd added on for admin fees and new meter
now i was also home on sick leave at this time about 5 weeks from my back surgery
Synergy in WA really need to help us people who put solar on our roofs because the current set up is crap if you are not on the 47c or 27c feed that the state gov were doing a few years ago.
synergy have up'ed their feed in from 7c to 8.4c YAY me then they sell my clean energy back to me at 23c
i exported over 200kwh and made a whole $22 , even bigger YAY
we have changed our usuage to try and use most of our electricity to durning the day while we are making it because its not worth exporting it and i worked out we save about $50 doing this
so for a whole bill cycle 2 months i think i saved $70 and if thats the average i will save a whole $420 a year (the system cost me all up with sysnergy fees etc $6700)
its going to take me nearly 15 years to pay it off
what a waist of time ...
now i admit things will change over time but the WA gov has to a 1 to 1 sytem as its its the only fair way

can i ask what solar company you went with?

also ive read some bad stuff about true value solar... has anyone else dealt with them and is it true they suk?

and as said 50bux off, is it really worth the hassel of gettin it done?

[comagutsa]

Originally Posted by Benny D

can i ask what solar company you went with?

also ive read some bad stuff about true value solar... has anyone else dealt with them and is it true they suk?

and as said 50bux off, is it really worth the hassel of gettin it done?

i went with Norther sun solar in Perth and they were great and didnt have a problem with them at all

is it worth the hassel... i would say in synergy areas of WA not at this time ...when and if they adopt a 1to1 system then i would say yes for sure

true value solar keep away from big time

[Stagg]

Originally Posted by Benny D

can i ask what solar company you went with?

also ive read some bad stuff about true value solar... has anyone else dealt with them and is it true they suk?

and as said 50bux off, is it really worth the hassel of gettin it done?

Got news the other day that True Value Solar has been using a brand of panels called Sunflower. They managed to get an ultra cheap price for the sunflower modules they use because they are not CEC accredited panels, meaning that they are not eligible for rebates in Australia i.e. if you bought a system off TVS recently, there is a good chance your going to have someone knocking on your door to ask for their government incentive back.

Their CEO also stepped down a short time ago. Bit of history here:

A German company known as B+W took a 60% share in TVS on an agreement that once they reached a certain level of profitability, the agreement would commence. TVS is not in a heated court case with B+W because to reach their agreed profitability TVS was cutting corners wherever they could (such as the non accredited panels), and breaching the agreement.

There is a reason why TVS is cheaper basically.... Nonetheless also what most people know is that TVS wasn't always called TVS, they changed their name when they were in hot water last time they were cutting corners. What industry analysers believe will now happen is that they will basically change their name again, washing their hands of this dodgy non accredited panels and cutting corners junk.

Anyone who had a system installed by them should wait for that phone call asking for a few thousand dollars because their panels are illegally installed...

EDIT: Sunflower do have accredited panels in Australia, the particular model panel was cheaper because Sunflower had applied for CEC accreditation and it did not pass, and was on sold as sloppy seconds basically.

[Stagg]

Also, for anyone with REC panels installed, may well be posed without valid warranties in the very near future, have a read:

http://www.pv-tech.org/news/rec_to_w...m_medium=email

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Stagg

Got news the other day that True Value Solar has been using a brand of panels called Sunflower. They managed to get an ultra cheap price for the sunflower modules they use because they are not CEC accredited panels, meaning that they are not eligible for rebates in Australia i.e. if you bought a system off TVS recently, there is a good chance your going to have someone knocking on your door to ask for their government incentive back.

Their CEO also stepped down a short time ago. Bit of history here:

A German company known as B+W took a 60% share in TVS on an agreement that once they reached a certain level of profitability, the agreement would commence. TVS is not in a heated court case with B+W because to reach their agreed profitability TVS was cutting corners wherever they could (such as the non accredited panels), and breaching the agreement.

There is a reason why TVS is cheaper basically.... Nonetheless also what most people know is that TVS wasn't always called TVS, they changed their name when they were in hot water last time they were cutting corners. What industry analysers believe will now happen is that they will basically change their name again, washing their hands of this dodgy non accredited panels and cutting corners junk.

Anyone who had a system installed by them should wait for that phone call asking for a few thousand dollars because their panels are illegally installed...

EDIT: Sunflower do have accredited panels in Australia, the particular model panel was cheaper because Sunflower had applied for CEC accreditation and it did not pass, and was on sold as sloppy seconds basically.

do you have any proof?? i did plenty of research before signing with TVS and for sure, there is some negative feedback out there, but most of the recent stuff is fairly positive. also, anyone that doesn't have a problem, doesn't take the time to leave feedback, so negativity (with any reviews) is always going to be over represented.

the panels i have been told they will be using are not sunflower panels.

sounds to me more like sour grapes. if they are so bad, how do they manage to become the biggest installer of solar by a decent margin?

i don't want to say too much as obviously i'm yet to have anything installed, but my dealings with them to date have been fine. everything that i've been told has checked out.

my nieghbour also has TVS system up and running and he is more than happy.

yes, they use chinese panels and inverters, but so do 80% of the market. most are covered by the same performance based warranties, and many, the warranties are manufacturer based, so even if a company like TVS goes bust, the warranties are still intact.

i'm not saying TVS are the best, or even close to. i just don't like claims that are unsubstantiated.

[poppa smurf]

all any of us can do is to buy what we perceive as being good quality gear with a decent warranty

the problem, as I see it, is these companies that give the warranties are not going to be around in the time span mentioned as warranted

so I don't reckon it matters a great deal where they are manufactured

I dont look at forum reviews.....only those with too much time on their hands leave a message......those of us that are happy say nothing

[Rastus]

Well after 2 months, last week I finally got a smart meter to go with my 3.99kw system, and with it the final regular bill. Now for some better weather to feed my new obsession. Every night I come home to look at the days results, sad but true :-) There's been alot of real ordinary days & weather, but my new daily record was yesterday so things are on the up. Rock on spring/summer!
http://pvoutput.org/list.jsp?id=11977&sid=9922

[mickyyyy]

Originally Posted by comagutsa

well i got my 1st bill the other day
what a big let down
no i must say this was my 1st bill and i had the solar put on a few weeks into the billing cycle
and there was about $280 odd added on for admin fees and new meter
now i was also home on sick leave at this time about 5 weeks from my back surgery
Synergy in WA really need to help us people who put solar on our roofs because the current set up is crap if you are not on the 47c or 27c feed that the state gov were doing a few years ago.
synergy have up'ed their feed in from 7c to 8.4c YAY me then they sell my clean energy back to me at 23c
i exported over 200kwh and made a whole $22 , even bigger YAY
we have changed our usuage to try and use most of our electricity to durning the day while we are making it because its not worth exporting it and i worked out we save about $50 doing this
so for a whole bill cycle 2 months i think i saved $70 and if thats the average i will save a whole $420 a year (the system cost me all up with sysnergy fees etc $6700)
its going to take me nearly 15 years to pay it off
what a waist of time ...
now i admit things will change over time but the WA gov has to a 1 to 1 sytem as its its the only fair way

Sorry to hear about your expirience!!!

Is it maybe that your roof is not north facing? and whatever position it is not generating much power?

[Stagg]

Originally Posted by prydey

do you have any proof?? i did plenty of research before signing with TVS and for sure, there is some negative feedback out there, but most of the recent stuff is fairly positive. also, anyone that doesn't have a problem, doesn't take the time to leave feedback, so negativity (with any reviews) is always going to be over represented.

the panels i have been told they will be using are not sunflower panels.

sounds to me more like sour grapes. if they are so bad, how do they manage to become the biggest installer of solar by a decent margin?

i don't want to say too much as obviously i'm yet to have anything installed, but my dealings with them to date have been fine. everything that i've been told has checked out.

my nieghbour also has TVS system up and running and he is more than happy.

yes, they use chinese panels and inverters, but so do 80% of the market. most are covered by the same performance based warranties, and many, the warranties are manufacturer based, so even if a company like TVS goes bust, the warranties are still intact.

i'm not saying TVS are the best, or even close to. i just don't like claims that are unsubstantiated.

Someone has done the research into the previous trading names for us here:

http://www.solarfreaks.com/true-valu...mare-t432.html

Feel free to double check this on the abr

https://abr.gov.au/ABRWeb/Homepage.a...me&pid=71&js=1

To answer the question of why they are the largest retailer of a decent margin, would I be correct in assuming that they were the cheapest quote you got, that the decision was made on the best price?

Also not all of TVS installs will be with Sunflower modules. How TVS operates is they will only deal direct with a chinese national if they give a quote below a certain price. Personally, I have experience with international chinese reps who are still sending me prices for their solar modules when I contacted them back in 2010; I am only a sales person and I have about 15 reps chasing me, I can hardly imagine how many calls and emails TVS gets from people wanting to penetrate the australian market. Essentially they will sell whatever is cheap, another note is that is the reason why they never have any mention of any panel brand on their website; because the brand of panels is constantly changing.

There is another dodgy deal here:

http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index...itemId/1015713

It is not the fact that they are using Chinese panels, it is a misconception that Chinese modules are dodgy; also that figure of 80% is more like 95% or greater since Chinese companies have been taking German manufacturers out of the industry like shooting fish in a barrel. Problem is, that the best panels and the worst panels in the world all come from China. It's not a matter of country or origin, it's a matter of manufacturer.

[poppa smurf]

our experience with solar will vary enormously.......before installing solar there are many factors to consider

I have reiterated this within this thread ad nauseam.......please do your homework BEFORE listening to the glittering tales of others who have done the hard yards and are now benefiting

feed in tariff will vary greatly state to state......check BEFORE install

the physical placement and directional attitude of panels will influence output.....check BEFORE install

the continental positioning of your placement will influence the availability of solar output hours thus affecting the potential yield of any PV system placed......check BEFORE placement

please folks just do your homework.....any failure of the system after install is down to your failure to understand how solar and the power system works

I and many others have placed a lot of info in here that is easily accessed...any queries can be directed either through this thread or by PM.....no excuses

failing to plan is planning to fail