All things Solar (merged threads)

[xisled]

The reason why I say go bigger is that you do not know what is going to happen in the future. What happens if you current consumption changes. Your life style changes and you use more power. Your fridges decides to start playing up and starts using more power.

You also have to take into account weekends. If no one is home during the weekdays, but on weekends everyone is home. You are using more power. So your average will not be correct.

You have to remember with the old meters they read it once every 3 months and the average is worked out by the number of days in your bill divided by the amount of power you have used. The onyl way to work it out is read your meter everyday around the same time for a few weeks and see what the average daily use is.

Also those calculators you see online, they are very basic and give you a general range on what you use. Most will be incorrect for the usage at your home, they can give you an idea, but best way would be to read the meter and do your own maths.

[mickyyyy]

Originally Posted by xisled

The reason why I say go bigger is that you do not know what is going to happen in the future. What happens if you current consumption changes. Your life style changes and you use more power. Your fridges decides to start playing up and starts using more power.

You also have to take into account weekends. If no one is home during the weekdays, but on weekends everyone is home. You are using more power. So your average will not be correct.

You have to remember with the old meters they read it once every 3 months and the average is worked out by the number of days in your bill divided by the amount of power you have used.

Also those calculators you see on line, they are very basic and give you a general range on what you use. Most will be incorrect for the usage at your home.

Understood!!! I have already looked into what you have mentioned and 2kw is good now but not in 5yrs time, as there will be more day activity in the home hence looking at 3kw.

I think we all have to look even further and make a plan eg are we going to live here for the next 15-20yrs to make a clear decision on system.

[xisled]

Originally Posted by mickyyyy

Understood!!! I have already looked into what you have mentioned and 2kw is good now but not in 5yrs time, as there will be more day activity in the home hence looking at 3kw.

I think we all have to look even further and make a plan eg are we going to live here for the next 15-20yrs to make a clear decision on system.

I agree it is hard choice, knowing in 10 years time the system we get now will be out dated. But end of the day comes down to if you can afford it or not. If you are struggling to get a 2kw system, then thats what I would be getting, at least there is a system on your roof reducing the power cost.

[EgoFG]

In NSW the FIT is instantaneous - so if at 10:30 and 23 seconds you are using 1.1 kw, and you are making 1.5 kw you will export 0.4 kw in that instant, if you do this on average for an hour you will have exported 0.4 kwh for about 3c.

Our electricity usage tends to be "peaky".
To bring your bill down to zero you need to cover your peaks, not your average.

On 22 Aug we used 35.8 kwh peaking at about 7
our 2.1 kw system generated 8.1 kwh on that day - peaking at 1.7

we drew 29 from the grid, and exported 1.3 to the grid

If purchase price was not a factor we would continue to save money on a system that generates our peak instantaneous usage on a bad day.

I am very much a numbers man, and have crunched the numbers every 6 or so months for the past 2 years - based on my mapping of our usage hourly, and real world hourly generation figures from next door.

It did not make financial sense for us to install Solar with a 60c feed in tariff, but it does now with a 6c FIT !

In fact, my profiling says that if we install another 1.5 - to 2.5 kw for about $1000 per kw it will pay for itself in less than 4 years - in fact: even faster if I was able to factor in the fact that we have switched some of our usage to daylight hours (pool pump, dishwasher ...)

in NSW you should not summarily limit yourself to a system that will only cover your total daytime costs for at least these reasons:
1) You are billed for your instantaneous NET usage - you may keep saving on a system able to generate enough to cover your PEAK daytime usage
2) not every day has full sunlight.
3) you need to factor in your acceptable payback period, purchase cost, electricity cost projections and FIT projections.

In my spreadsheet a system with peak generation equal to about 80% of our peak consumption is roughly the sweet spot.
For a more reasonable estimate you need to profile your usage curve against solar generation curves.

[xisled]

Nsw has a 0 cent buy back at the moment, but some retailers offer a buy back. Nsw is very different to any other state. The main reason is due to peak, off peak and shoulder rate.

[mickyyyy]

Origin are offering 6cents per kwh...

Are most of you NSW solar system owners on net metering system?

[b0son]

AGL offer 8c/kwh. Best of the lot.

All new systems going in are net AFAIK - with the current FIT, its not worth going gross.

[xisled]

Originally Posted by mickyyyy

Origin are offering 6cents per kwh...

Are most of you NSW solar system owners on net metering system?

If you are installing a new system there is no point going gross, unless your retailer will give you a good buy back FIT.

[mickyyyy]

Originally Posted by xisled

If you are installing a new system there is no point going gross, unless your retailer will give you a good buy back FIT.

Apparently Energy Australia give you the option of gross or net...

[MercurySilver]

get the bigger inverter but less panels?

ie get a 5kw inverter but run around 2kw of panels
that way when when you can save a bit of cash you can add panels when you can afford them

we're just about to move in
literally the keys are sitting in my meter box as i type and im waiting for the misses to finish work so we can go and stand in our new house
(we already live in a transportable on the same 2 acres and i can seet he new house looking out the lounge window)

i desperately want solar
and if the funds are there after doing a driveway and massive amounts of retaining walls im going for it
if i cant afford a 5 or 6 kw straight up ill do the bigger inverter and less panels and add to it when we can afford it

[xisled]

Originally Posted by MercurySilver

get the bigger inverter but less panels?

ie get a 5kw inverter but run around 2kw of panels
that way when when you can save a bit of cash you can add panels when you can afford them

we're just about to move in
literally the keys are sitting in my meter box as i type and im waiting for the misses to finish work so we can go and stand in our new house
(we already live in a transportable on the same 2 acres and i can seet he new house looking out the lounge window)

i desperately want solar
and if the funds are there after doing a driveway and massive amounts of retaining walls im going for it
if i cant afford a 5 or 6 kw straight up ill do the bigger inverter and less panels and add to it when we can afford it

With doing the whole bigger inverter thing you have to becarful.

What most solar installers do not tell you, if you add more panels you may not be able to stay on the FIT.

Example in Victoria the PFIT program was 66 cent buy back which closed 30th Sep 2011. If you are on PFIT now and you want to increase the panels on your system, you will give up your PFIT and drop down to the current FIT, As of the 30th Sep this year in VIC it willbe 8 cents.

It is the same in NSW also.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by xisled

If you are on PFIT now and you want to increase the panels on your system, you will give up your PFIT and drop down to the current FIT

How would they know? What if you add the extra panels yourself?

[prydey]

Originally Posted by xisled

With doing the whole bigger inverter thing you have to becarful.

What most solar installers do not tell you, if you add more panels you may not be able to stay on the FIT.

Example in Victoria the PFIT program was 66 cent buy back which closed 30th Sep 2011. If you are on PFIT now and you want to increase the panels on your system, you will give up your PFIT and drop down to the current FIT, As of the 30th Sep this year in VIC it willbe 8 cents.

It is the same in NSW also.

this isn't entirely true. if you have a 5kw inverter but only 2kw worth of panels, you just need to tell them you have a generative capacity of 5kw. then you keep your FIT.

i would recommend against it for another reason though. apparently inverters are most efficient when they are maxed out, so if you only have 2kw worth of panels, a 2kw inverter will be more efficient. how much that is though may not be enough to make a lot of difference.

the other thing is, when i spoke to my installer, he said they had never done an 'upgrade' as its a very expensive exercise to add panels. not sure if that was just the company i used or all companies. the figure they quoted was around $900/panel.

[GTB 351]

Not very happy at the moment - got my first electricity bill since the 5kw system went on the house - they say I have averaged over 18kw/h a day from the grid [down from 22, but had the spa off and had the meter going backwards for 2 the weeks prior to the new meter being installed - yes, old type 3 phase meter actually went backwards]. Got a credit of $170 off the bill for the 600 odd kwh I fed into the system; my inverter says I made over 1200kwh in this time. Can't be right, bill of nearly $500 bucks. I'll be calling ETSA tomorrow and offending someone.

[mickyyyy]

Originally Posted by GTB 351

Not very happy at the moment - got my first electricity bill since the 5kw system went on the house - they say I have averaged over 18kw/h a day from the grid [down from 22, but had the spa off and had the meter going backwards for 2 the weeks prior to the new meter being installed - yes, old type 3 phase meter actually went backwards]. Got a credit of $170 off the bill for the 600 odd kwh I fed into the system; my inverter says I made over 1200kwh in this time. Can't be right, bill of nearly $500 bucks. I'll be calling ETSA tomorrow and offending someone.

I hear there are a couple different type of meters but which one is actually accurate???

[prydey]

Originally Posted by GTB 351

Not very happy at the moment - got my first electricity bill since the 5kw system went on the house - they say I have averaged over 18kw/h a day from the grid [down from 22, but had the spa off and had the meter going backwards for 2 the weeks prior to the new meter being installed - yes, old type 3 phase meter actually went backwards]. Got a credit of $170 off the bill for the 600 odd kwh I fed into the system; my inverter says I made over 1200kwh in this time. Can't be right, bill of nearly $500 bucks. I'll be calling ETSA tomorrow and offending someone.

this seems to be a fairly common theme according to my installer, and also my neighbour.

my neighbours first bill was a big one also and what had happened is the numpties come around and read the power generated as 'usage' before the smart meter goes on (or something like that). a phone call to AGL or ETSA had the error resolved so hopefully it is the same in your situation.

if you were using an average of 22kwh before installing a 5kw system, then thats going to be knocking most of that out, not just 4kwh. obviously the weather in SA hasn't been fantastic but in the 10 days mine has been operational (3.8kw) its made 150kwh so i would imagine a 5kw system should be just about taking care of all your usage.

[xisled]

Originally Posted by b0son

How would they know? What if you add the extra panels yourself?

This is in Victoria.

Bascially the meter is configured for the size of the system. The meter and the inverter work together.

Also your isntaller will send a thing called the EWR to your retail company.

[Captain Stubing]

Well, after waiting nearly 11 weeks, the intallers have just left. 16x 190 watt panels are now fixed to my roof. According to the inverter, it's sending about 9.8amps back to the grid, and the old meter is spinning backwards nicely.

Apparently I've got a 3 week wait before Energex comes out to upgrade the meter, but I'm not sweating on that. I'm locked into a 44c/kwh feed in tariff for 25 years.

[prydey]

good job swanny and great deal with the FIT. sounds like you'll be laughing.

[ute83]

Originally Posted by swanny

I'm locked into a 44c/kwh feed in tariff for 25 years.

The way electricity prices are going we'll be paying more than 44c in a few years, certainly better than 8c now though.

[Captain Stubing]

I just checked the inverter, and it's generated about 13kw in just under four hours.

The meter, however, has only gone back 5kw. Maybe I do want Energex to put that new meter in sooner!

[XD 351 Ute]

Originally Posted by swanny

I'm locked into a 44c/kwh feed in tariff for 25 years.

Hope it all works out. Are you sure about the being locked in on 44cents?
When I did all my paperwork, there was nothing that specified this in writing.
I rang Ergon, and the lady there said that the 44 cent rebate was a government thing, and not the electrical retailers.

My understanding from all this is that we are at the whim of the government, and if they decide to keep their promise about the rebate or not.
Only time will tell I suppose...

Ed

[xisled]

With the 44 cent rebate you had to have all your paperwork in by the 9th of July. If you did this your buy back is locked in at 44 cents. I think you had to fill out a contract to get this.

[Captain Stubing]

Yes, I got my paperwork in before the cut-off date, I'll have to read through it all again to make sure, though.

[supershifty]

Originally Posted by swanny

Well, after waiting nearly 11 weeks, the intallers have just left. 16x 190 watt panels are now fixed to my roof. According to the inverter, it's sending about 9.8amps back to the grid, and the old meter is spinning backwards nicely.

Apparently I've got a 3 week wait before Energex comes out to upgrade the meter, but I'm not sweating on that. I'm locked into a 44c/kwh feed in tariff for 25 years.

Nice work swanny! I got my solar installed in April '12 with a (i think) 52 cent feed in tariff - before the crunch in July. When I got my first bill for the 1/4er I just stuck it on my fridge with "WTF" written on it instead of a "paid xx/xx/xx". I'll try to figure the billing process out on my next bill. You've gotta be a rocket scientist to nut out how they come up with the figures.

I think our brothers down south are getting screwed though - their base cost for electricity is high, and their feed in tariffs seem to be lower than QLD.

Not trying to rain on your parade swanny - it's nice to think that we will have that feed in tariff for years to come. I got a guarantee on my solar system's performance, not a guarantee on the feed in tariff.

Anyway, it goes to the fact that you have solar, and you'll be saving coin in the long scheme of things!

Cheers!

[XD 351 Ute]

Originally Posted by supershifty

Anyway, it goes to the fact that you have solar, and you'll be saving coin in the long scheme of things!

And that is the whole idea!

Next for me is a real luxury that has been out of reach, air con in the lounge room. Without the million $$ cost to run it

Ed

[prydey]

Originally Posted by swanny

I just checked the inverter, and it's generated about 13kw in just under four hours.

thats very decent for a 3kw system. must be a nice day up there today!!

Originally Posted by swanny

The meter, however, has only gone back 5kw. Maybe I do want Energex to put that new meter in sooner!

that just means that you used 8kw in that period.

[Captain Stubing]

Originally Posted by prydey

thats very decent for a 3kw system. must be a nice day up there today!!



that just means that you used 8kw in that period.

Sure was a good day!

I guessed that after I posted - the inverter shows how much energy is collected, before it gets to the switchboard, where the lights and GPO's take their power from.

[xisled]

Originally Posted by XD 351 Ute

And that is the whole idea!

Next for me is a real luxury that has been out of reach, air con in the lounge room. Without the million $$ cost to run it

Ed

You would be surprised how cheap air con is to run. We got refrigerated air con to all rooms in the house I think 10 ducks all up and the increase is only about 100 dollars for the summer bill.

But during summer it would lower the cost if we had solar.

The reason why air con can be expensive is people use the wrong air con for the house or get a wall air con that is not suited to the room.

[poppa smurf]

ah sounds like a few wins amongst us for now..........solar going up everywhere.....we just did some 4,500 kilometres around the joint (NSW, Vic and South Aus).....and everywhere we went solar was firmly entrenched