Petrol Price crisis......

[slowsnake]

Ya can blame the Arabs I suppose, but the UAE only produces it, and the barrel price is set by OPEC, so who is pricing it at the local servo?
It ain't Abdul the Bul-Bul in his palace in the Middle East, the amount of people who take a bite of the apple between ground to the bowser is not computable, would break ya calculator!...

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by whynot

Just some back of the envelope calculations about the running costs of EV verses petrol.

Assuming the EV uses energy at the rate of 0.25kW/km and a petrol uses 10l/100km. (Yes, we can argue ad infinitum about how much fuel each of us uses. This is what I typically use with my lead foot.)

Assuming $0.20/kWh for electricity and $2.00l for petrol.

Then, to travel 100km, the EV has cost $5 in fuel and the petrol as cost $20 in fuel.

Assuming the typical motorist travels 16,000km in a year, their fuel cost is $800p.a. for the EV and $3200 for the petrol.

Over the five year life of a typical lease vehicle, the EV is $12,000 cheaper to run (given all of the assumptions above).

From a Total Cost of Ownership perspective, this is starting to get EV near the price of their petrol equivalent. Certainly, the price gap is cheap money to show (or at the very least pretend) that one cares for the planet. With a solid solar PV system on the roof (at least 10kW with export capped at 5kW), the figures look very interesting. (Assuming one has that type of cash lying around.)

Which gets me to the bottom line ... I do wonder what game the oil producers are playing at. Surely, they can see their high prices are pushing people across to alternate fuels. Or maybe they figure they only have a few more years to make cash, so lets screw everyone while we can.

Good points...as to the oil cartels they do seem to be hurting themselves long term for short term greed....because eventually government mandates or their continued artificial price manipulation is going to kill demand for their product such that they won't be able to give it away....or maybe they are banking all their profits to buy out the solar panel and battery manufacturers....and pivot once oil demand makes it unprofitable.

[whynot]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

Do you see the possibility of people moving more towards standalone solar as feed-in benefits dwindle, as much altering the ownership costs?

No, completely disconnecting from the grid is hard to do. Even for those who have large solar PV and decent sized batteries. The name of the game with solar PV has always been self-consumption.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by slowsnake

Ya can blame the Arabs I suppose, but the UAE only produces it, and the barrel price is set by OPEC, so who is pricing it at the local servo?
It ain't Abdul the Bul-Bul in his palace in the Middle East, the amount of people who take a bite of the apple between ground to the bowser is not computable, would break ya calculator!...

Latest news is the margin by refiners is as high as it's been, petrol station margins while not at the highest are above the levels seen pre-covid..and Opec's Mission statement:

In accordance with its Statute, the mission of the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) is to coordinate and unify the petroleum policies of its Member Countries and ensure the stabilization of oil markets in order to secure an efficient, economic and regular supply of petroleum to consumers, a steady income to producers and a fair return on capital for those investing in the petroleum industry.

As to what is fair well we could argue all day...if my bank thinks it's being super generous giving me 0.5% interest on my money is making 1% on oil a fair return on capital and making 10 times that by the oil industry considered fair in the current economic climate?

If Coke, Pepsi, Cadbury Schweppes and et al decided to start the Organization of Soft Drink Exporting Countries (OSDEC) how long before the world governments smashed that down...

[mick taylor]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

The OPEC cartel




US is a bit different and there has been a bit of debate around that. They are/were effectively self sufficient in contrast to Australia.

We did sign an agreement to buy into the US strategic reserves to "meet our obligations" but not sure what if any effect that has unless they start tapping it.

The Oil around Australia is 3rd rate thin and high in sulphur. we can not make engine oil out of it or good Bitumen for roads.

My mate a paddy roller claims that Australian oil is that good that you can use the crude directly out to the ground and run it in your diesel.
What BS !
He claims to be having problems of late with the Tar being to thin and it's not hanging on to the stone as well. they have complained to the manufacture but been given the cold shoulder that nothing is wrong with it.


When we first struck oil out in Roma way, they did run a petrol engine on it, but they have a compression ratio at the time of about 4.0:1 and they could run old rubbish engines like that on fly spray as well.

Hey I ran Metho in my 2 stroke bike once back in the 70's once it warmed up it went ok sort of to get around the back yard like. I do not remember why I did it, maybe I got jack with swallowing petrol out of a garden hose from mums car.

[jpd80]

In any regard, higher fuel prices will convince some buyers to get either a hybrid or go full electric if it suits them.

[slowsnake]

Everyone around me, neighbours and friends etc can't afford to pay their daily bills, hybrid and EV are just words, words that mean absolutely nothing at all to the average bloke on the street, older folk don't really understand all the bru ha-ha about new technology, they have a basic understanding of solar and other types of renewable energy, but they are old and retired, their world is and has been the internal combustion engine, and most have never owned a new car, nevermind lease a car!.....

[burnz]

Originally Posted by jpd80

In any regard, higher fuel prices will convince some buyers to get either a hybrid or go full electric if it suits them.

higher prices only effects the poor,
they never buy new cars, always with a budget say under ten grand..

the second hand electric market will one to pick, how long before a replacement battery... will be their first thought!!

[MITCHAY]

Paid 1.85 for 98 at the servo just up the road rather than the servo near work which was over 2.02.

First time I have ever looked up prices on the web before filling up

[Adamz Ghia]

Originally Posted by burnz

higher prices only effects the poor,
they never buy new cars, always with a budget say under ten grand..

the second hand electric market will one to pick, how long before a replacement battery... will be their first thought!!

It affects the poor the most disproportionately, but it also affects middle income couples/ families too. Especially once interest rates start rising.

[Franco Cozzo]

LPG is cheap at 95 cents

[my67xr]

Filled up our 96 Prado main tank and a bit into the sub tank the other day, 98 at Costco SA cost us $160 for 100 Litre's
This week it's around $1.67 a Litre at a lot of servo's

[T3rminator]

Was down in Mentone (Vic) this evening. Most of the servos I drove past were still $1.5x for ULP!! Shell, Mobil....the lot!

[pcman]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

LPG is cheap at 95 cents

still cheaper to drive my turbo territory on lpg than anything else of similar size, $15 per 100kays cheap motoring

[five 7]

You lot have it easy, wife just filled her pathfinder cost $167, 91 at $260 ish here now thanks Govt. We are loosing Marsdon Pt our only refinery soon then we will be totally at the mercy of world prices.

[Late braker]

$1.93 for 91
98 was $2.14!!!

[burnz]

still 146.9 where i am..

[five 7]

Above was meant to be $2.60 a litre 91

[J Arthur Rank]

**** me, where is it $2.60?

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by J Arthur Rank

**** me, where is it $2.60?

NZ I think.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by burnz

higher prices only effects the poor,
they never buy new cars, always with a budget say under ten grand..

the second hand electric market will one to pick, how long before a replacement battery... will be their first thought!!

Sure, there’s tons of people of people who can’t afford or just won’t buy a BEV
but there are another group of people who can afford to change…..

[blueoval]

A BEV is worth while as a second car for when crap hits the fan and fuel is no longer affordable or fuel is limited. At least wit a BEV you have an option to drive.

[FlipXW]

Never really paid close attention to fuel prices before but had a bit of a look on my way into work this morning. Pymble Sydney BP this morning 98 216.9. Drummoyne Shell 212.9. Kind of glad I didn’t buy a Y62 Patrol now.

[blueoval]

I think its going to get worse leading up to xmas. I predict $2.50-$3 per litre leading into the new year. Some states worse than others. This is purely speculation though, but the trend is heading upwards for fuel prices.

[fordomatic]

Still $1.50 here in Canberra. So funny how the tides have turned. Used to be 20-40cents dearer here than Sydney, now it's the opposite.

[AGH]

Originally Posted by fordomatic

Still $1.50 here in Canberra. So funny how the tides have turned. Used to be 20-40cents dearer here than Sydney, now it's the opposite.

You can thank Costco for that in the ACT. I never used to go there on weekends as the lines were long to fill up even though they had a heap of pumps installed. Sadly had to leave the ACT when I changed jobs.

[Syndrome]

Earlier this week I filled my car with 91RON. $123.60 for a full tank which is the most expensive fuel I've purchased to date. $2/litre by the end of 2022 coming.

[jpd80]

Ten years ago, I moved to our current residence which is about 5 km from my work and about 3 km from shops, chemist and doctors. Normally, I go through a tank of fuel every two or three weeks, so the price of fuel doesn’t really bother me all that much. Bottom line to this is beyond vehicle choice, location and compulsory travel is the next biggest cost burden on people today.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Ten years ago, I moved to our current residence which is about 5 km from my work and about 3 km from shops, chemist and doctors. Normally, I go through a tank of fuel every two or three weeks, so the price of fuel doesn’t really bother me all that much. Bottom line to this is beyond vehicle choice, location and compulsory travel is the next biggest cost burden on people today.

I was wanting to replace my TDCI Focus with a Ecoboost Mondeo or Falcon but because the price of unleaded seems to randomly jump 40c/L overnight all the time, I've decided against it and I'll just keep the Focus until it dies

Does 5.5L/100km regardless of how I drive it, price of diesel is stable, I do about 550km/week only commuting to/from work.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I was wanting to replace my TDCI Focus with a Ecoboost Mondeo or Falcon but because the price of unleaded seems to randomly jump 40c/L overnight all the time, I've decided against it and I'll just keep the Focus until it dies

Does 5.5L/100km regardless of how I drive it, price of diesel is stable, I do about 550km/week only commuting to/from work.

And that’s what a lot of people need these days, a vehicle that doesn’t drink loads of fuel,
the diesel in your Focus is a great little unit and should serve you well, if you keep to services
with good oil and filters, it should last a long time.